Wednesday, September 21, 2011

Church of England’s guilty silence on Fatherhood

This is a guest post by the Rev'd Julian Mann:

Jesus taught his followers to pray to 'Our Father which art in heaven' (Mt 6:9). It is therefore incongruous that the Church of England is not more vociferous and assiduous in speaking up for fatherhood.

In the wake of the August riots, secular politicians, such as Tottenham MP David Lammy , have spoken of the social problems caused by the absence of fathers. Well before the riots, Mail on Sunday columnist Peter Hitchens, a lay Anglican, warned of the unfolding social disaster resulting from the growth of the fatherless family. Mr Hitchens has long warned of the devastating impact especially on boys of the lack of a father's authority, a prediction that came devastatingly true in that explosion of evil in August.

But the institutional Church, despite its willingness to pronounce on a range of other socio-political issues, has not entered the fray.

Whilst social stability may not be an absolute requirement for the spread of the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is necessary. Evangelism does suffer when societies become disordered. Also, the Church is or should be concerned about the general well-being of all people.

So why isn't the Church of the nation contending for fatherhood when Britain is broken because dad is either absent without leave or has been sent to the dog-house?

Cranmer's Curate was born in 1964. Think tank Civitas kindly provided him with a snap-shot of what has happened to the moral fabric of his beloved country roughly during his life-time. In 1960, there were three violent crimes against the person per 10,000 people in England and Wales. By 2010 that had risen to around 73 violent crimes against the person per 10,000 of population. During that period, the proportion of children growing up in a home with a resident father and mother fell dramatically – see Civitas's important 2002 publication Experiments in Living: The Fatherless Family.

The latest figures of course exclude the huge number of violent crimes that go unreported, a fact to which any objective observer of the goings-on in an accident and emergency department in any UK hospital on a Friday or Saturday night will testify.

In contrast to the reticence of its clerical expositors, the Christian Bible is very far from silent about the crucial leadership role of fathers. According to the New Testament, fathers have the primary role in instructing their children in the Christian faith. The Apostle Paul addresses father not mothers when he says: ‘Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord’ (Eph 6:4).

The production by the Mothers' Union of their What Dads Add cards (to be given to fathers when their children are baptised) is a welcome initiative. But it is a pastoral rather than a prophetic move. Far better, and of much greater impact, would be a clear statement by the Church of England, endorsed by the MU, about the crucial leadership role of fathers in both the Church and the family and an explanation of the appalling spiritual, moral and social consequences of sidelining them.

The guilty silence of the institutional Church can only be explained by a spiritual and moral capitulation to the permissive society. A Church that was being prophetic for Christ against the cultural flow would have the recovery of fatherhood at the top of the agenda for its next General Synod rather than the innovation of women bishops.

Julian Mann is vicar of the Parish Church of the Ascension, Oughtibridge. He is an occasional columnist for Christian Today.


Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Well said!

The Established Church continues to remain silent or equivocal on too many of the moral issues resulting in our disordered society - contraception, abortion, pre-marital cohabitation, divorce, homosexuality.

21 September 2011 at 17:01  
Blogger Derek T Northcote said...

You religious nutters are going the way of the Dodo aren't you.


21 September 2011 at 17:28  
Blogger Belsay Bugle said...

Quite right!

But I fear the established church capitulated to the permissive society a few decades ago.
If Robert Runcie and Elizabeth Anscombe are right it was as far back as the 1930s when the C of E changed its teaching on contraception that the rot set in.

The C of E is now seen as little more than a branch of the social services - and that's by many of the recent priestly appointments.

If you Mr Northcote are too blind to see there is truth in Chiristianity then you might be better to seek instruction rather than being insulting.

21 September 2011 at 17:32  
Blogger Shacklefree said...

The statistics in the report are very interesting and show that there are many factors leading to the break-up of families. The study shows that being married increases family stability and is more likely to produce children who are more balanced and less likely to fail at school or get into trouble with the police. If marriage is redefined this will inevitably obscure the picture. Even now when we talk about married people we do not distinguish between those married in Church or those married in a registry office. It does not indicate if children are in a second marriage after divorce or if they are living with their original biological parents. Here is a link to the Demographic Winter video

and here is a quote from it “On every measure ever measured by the social scientists, the intact married family is the strongest on every outcome ever measured.”

As we move down the route of redefining marriage and experimenting with different lifestyles, let’s consider the impact on children. The evidence seems pretty clear.

21 September 2011 at 17:54  
Blogger len said...

The problem with the 'established Church' is that instead of being salt and light to the World the Church has let the' World'in and become corrupted by it.
There are pockets left in the Established Church who cling to the Word of Truth but the main part of the Church is moving towards apostasy.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ in many cases has become a 'social Gospel' and when this incorporates Political Correctness the Church ceases evangelising and closes in upon itself and begins to die.

As the Body without the Spirit is dead so the Church without the Spirit is lifeless.
If Churches would stop performing religious rituals and open themselves to the Holy Spirit perhaps we would have another Pentecost and Life would be breathed into the Churches.

The Letters to the Churches in 'Revelation' are as relevant to the Church today as when it was written.

21 September 2011 at 17:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I've just very quickly skim-read that Civitas publication but I reckon there's potentially some good stuff in there to also support gay marriage. Thanks for that.

21 September 2011 at 18:10  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 September 2011 at 18:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


Do allow the Inspector General to inform you how fatherless children spiraled...

In the 1970s, girls and boys got engaged, got married and went to live at one of the parents houses. Name goes down on council housing list. When baby was on it’s way, they would be accelerated up the list. Ideally, at the time of birth, they’d have their own let. However, it was noticed that if a girl had a child out of wedlock, she would be given a council let anyway, and most importantly, all paid for ! This way of doing things became a trickle, then a flood !

Now, the father would then join the mother and child. Snag, no more bills paid by the state, so with the majority, cohabitation in secret was the order of the day. Eventually, council officials were on the trail of these people, and if caught, benefit payments stopped. It doesn’t take much imagination to see that the father stopped living with the mother full time, and became an occasional visitor. Decades later of course, the mothers realised they don’t need the fathers in their life, and are quite happy to go it alone (…well not quite alone, they have state benefit handouts for company...).

Simplistic analysis, you might think, but that’s how it all started, in a nutshell. Don’t blame ordinary people – put the blame on our obscenely generous welfare state. And of course, we now have whole families who are career benefit scroungers, but the Inspector General will leave that one for another day…

21 September 2011 at 18:23  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

The building block of society is the marrital relationship between men and women. God has a design for the appropriate relationship between them.

I ommitted to include radical feminism in the list of issues the Church has failed to address.

Maybe all the other ills flow from a fundamental disturbance in this critical relationship.

21 September 2011 at 18:25  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0 here !!

...And he’s still banging on about Gay Marriage. Reminds the Inspector of a little girl looking forward to being a bridesmaid for the first time !! Rather sweet actually...

21 September 2011 at 18:36  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ OoIG (18:36)—DanJ0 would find support for gay marriage in a packet of Cheesy Wotsits.

21 September 2011 at 19:01  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Johnny: "DanJ0 would find support for gay marriage in a packet of Cheesy Wotsits."

They wouldn't be white enough for you even if I did.

21 September 2011 at 19:16  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr Rottenborough

The Inspector has just informed said excited ‘little girl’ it’s a Gay Marriage she’ll be attending. She’s gone rather sad, quiet and withdrawn...

21 September 2011 at 19:17  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ DanJ0 (19:16)—Acerbic but completely lacking in style.

21 September 2011 at 19:19  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

I agree with the General -

The Welfare State Industry has a lot to answer for in undermining what the founding fathers(no pun intended)fought so hard to rightly establish for the protection of most vulnerable.

What a wasted sacrifice that was. They wanted a fair days work for a fair days pay and a pension; now we have a non-working class alternative to the work ethic, in a 'career' choice of a life style funded by the mug generous benefits. Now it seems the word has spread and bold and brash of the third world is beating a path to our door to jump an the same plush cushioned band wagon.

Why hasn't the CoE kicked up about career fathers who can bring four wives in to the Country and live off their childrens' allowances and multiple housing benefits, while they shuttle back and forth to wherever they came from with impunity.

21 September 2011 at 19:47  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Dreadnaught and Inspector General

Why turn this into an attack on welfare claimants and immigrants? I agree there are problems with how to balance elfare support with avoidance of dependance. However, the issues raised in the guest post by the Rev'd Julian Mann are more deep rooted and serious.

Besides, lack of fidelity, divorce, single parenthood etc. are not confined to the working class or immigrants groups.

21 September 2011 at 20:51  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector General

DanJ0 just wants acceptance and understanding. Wonder if his partner is an older man.

21 September 2011 at 20:53  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


The Inspector launching an attack on welfare claimants ? Not quite, just a reason why little Johnny or Leroy wrecked the local shopping area.

DanJ0, bless him, should thank his lucky stars he wasn’t born earlier in the 20th century and across the channel, otherwise he would have been behind electrified barbed wire wearing a pink triangle. Gay Marriage, the Inspector asks, did the servicemen of this country back then risk their lives for that ???

21 September 2011 at 21:08  
Blogger Atlas shrugged said...

Why hasn't the CoE kicked up about career fathers who can bring four wives in to the Country and live off their childrens' allowances and multiple housing benefits, while they shuttle back and forth to wherever they came from with impunity.

Questions, questions, yet seemingly no answers.

That is, except when I try my upmost to deliver one.

Therefore in the vain hope of not being metaphorically shot, or worse actually shot, I will present you all with my usual answer to these types of questions.

Answer, because a conspiracy is at play.

A conspiracy to destroy what is commonly known as traditional family life.

A conspiracy, as opposed to a natural, or unforeseen consequence of uncontrolled, or uncontrollable events.

As I have proposed several times in the past, virtually NOTHING is purely natural, ( including mankinds existence on this planet ) inevitable, unplanned, unforeseeable, or indeed unforeseen.

When it comes to all things political, NOTHING at all simply happens all by itself, or for no short, medium or long term reason.

This does not however mean that any more then a tiny minority of people who consider themselves to be socialists, know that they are working for an ideology that has long since been working step by step towards the ultimate destruction of cohesive society as a whole, as well as 'normal' family life in particular.

IMO The CofE, as well as the RCC were long since subverted by forces hell bent on ultimately controlling every single aspect of human existence, bar absolutely none whatsoever. Exactly when this happened, and precisely by whom, is a matter of some considerable debate.

Some say it goes back to the end of the 18th century, some say to the thoughts, and actions of people like Sir Francis Bacon. Others believe that this type of religious subversion dates back from the beginning of The Babylonian Empire, others to the time of Atlantis, or indeed the dawn of civilization itself.

I hold the fact of religious subversion, to not only be rationally self-evident, but also more then highly well documented.

The sort of good news is this.

The people behind this, do not plan on simply destroying society, and leave it at that, far from it.

They are destroying society simply to make it almost infinitely easier to rebuild society as they wish it to be.

A Phoenix will one day emerge from its own ashes.

21 September 2011 at 21:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Atlas Shrugged

A conspiracy (...again, for God’s sake...). Yes, that’s probably it....

21 September 2011 at 21:32  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Was Our Lord foreseen by your proposed conspiritors? Ws He part of there plan? Is the Bible the inpired Word of God or a prototype propaganda tool? Who could be behind such a conspiracy dating back to the dawn of time?

Why isn't is as simple as God's plan for us faces a constant, unrelentling attack from His adversary?

21 September 2011 at 21:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


If you don’t receive a reply from Atlas Shrugged tonight, don’t worry...

He’s already received his injection and the nursing staff have taken him to his bed.

21 September 2011 at 22:11  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

"If Churches would stop performing religious rituals and open themselves to the Holy Spirit perhaps we would have another Pentecost and Life would be breathed into the Churches.

If only you would allow yourself to see the elegance, simplicity and truth of Roman Catholicism. It's dogmas and doctrines; it's teaching authority; it'ssacraments and it's religion celebrations and worship.

The picture you paint is hundreds of years out of date! Roman Catholicism has evolved and, as promised, restored itself to it's meet it's Great Commission.

Protestantism hastened esssential reforms. However, the same objective to reform the Church could possibly have been achieved within the Church, in time, with trust in the Holy Spirit.

Another purpose was served too. Other interests intruded. The Body of Christ became divided, weakened and wounded.

How do you know you are not the one suffering from the 'Great Delusion'?


If it's me that's wrong, then may God forgive me. My answer will be clear - I loved and served Him to the best of my ability. I followed the teachings of the Church He instituted and delegated His authority to. I placed my trust in His promise to that Church - unconditionally - because I believe in His Word - absolutely.

And you, if you're wrong what will your answer be?

21 September 2011 at 22:56  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Seriously, I'm really very interested in hearinglistening to and understanding Atlas' picture of what's going on in the world.

21 September 2011 at 23:00  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo – the Inspector General wonders if it is a professional interest...

21 September 2011 at 23:08  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector General


I am personally interested in the ways we all see the world differently and make can sense of our experiences.

Always have been and it's without prejudice. Professionally, most often, it means assisting people to resolve conflicts in their lives.

But isn't that what a serious conversation involves anyway? How can I answer Atlas if I don't understand what he is saying?

21 September 2011 at 23:39  
Blogger Norman Yardy said...

In the forties and fifties. wives were meek and mild and the man of the house was a man. With the emancipation of women in all areas other than the vote, women bacame more vociferous and demanding of of their 'rights'. This led to the man, cringing and hiding from his responsibilities.
We need in this day more teaching on how to live a maried life and stay married by the giving of the one to the other in every part of their lives and wives encouraging their husbands to be a man and a father.

21 September 2011 at 23:46  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

Once upon a time, the Prime Minister's job was to run this country, but by the time Blair became PM, that was boring and the World Stage called.
The same with the Church; preaching the Bible and trying to convert people to Christianity became boring, world affairs are far more attractive. Pontificating on the economic crisis and other political issues may be far more interesting, but as no-one listens (or if the do, they ignore it). Our churchmen are appointed to preach Christianity and to lead their flock, but the way they are going they soon won't have a flock to lead.

It is time both our politicians and church leaders got back to their proper jobs.

22 September 2011 at 00:13  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Norman Yardy


St. Paul wrote mystically on the relationship between married Christian couples. The discourse, inspired by the Holy Spirit, starts with a general message:

“Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ”.

Paul opens his discourse on marriage by saying:

"Wives should be subject to their husbands as to the Lord, since, as Christ is head of the Church and saves the whole body, so is a husband the head of his wife; and as the Church is subject to Christ, so should wives be to their husbands, in everything."

He then turns to husbands, saying:

Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself for her to make her holy by washing her in cleansing water with a form of words, so that when he took the Church to himself she would be glorious, with no speck or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and faultless. In the same way, husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies; for a man to love his wife is for him to love himself. A man never hates his own body, but he feeds it and looks after it; and that is the way Christ treats the Church,
because we are parts of his Body.
This is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife, and the two become one flesh."

At the very end of this passage, St. Paul sums up:

"This mystery has great significance, but I am applying it to Christ and the Church. To sum up: you also, each one of you, must love his wife as he loves himself; and let every wife respect her husband."

It is this understanding and aspiration that has been erroded.

22 September 2011 at 01:05  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Inspector, regarding your post at 18:23. Bang on. Is this the longest post you've placed on this blog?

It may interest you, unless you already know this, that what you described is something that was noted by some, but dismissed and ignored by all at the very start of the welfare policies favouring single mothers. In the early 80s, the late Marvin Harris, a popular cultural anthropologist at Columbia U, finally conducted empirical studies and wrote about this process in relation to the American Blacks in a number of monographs, but most notably in his America Now. Good book to get...although you summarise this topic in much more amusing ways. Caused quite the rucus, Harris did, yet the facts and the trends and chronology were, and remain indisputable, tough peer reviews notwithstanding.

That policy of "no male partners" has since been eased in the US and Canada, but it's too late. The mother-centred ghetto family, relying on a procession of male partners with occasional income and the preferrence for aggressive, street-wise sons able to protect the household and bring in spare income from crime has already been established, and has crossed racial lines. Harris ruffled more feathers when he suggested that white women entering the white and pink collar labour force effectively blocked the Black male from a potential pathway to economic improvement and so initiated the crisis. I would modestly differ and say that we can simplify the model even further by pointing to the collapse of the manufacturing sector and the rise of service industries where educated white women were of greater value to a traditional and frankly, still very racist society. But what do I know; I'm a trucker now and according to our Dodo, a possible Israeli agent.

Some see conspiracies in all that, and understandably so, given how "successful" welfare policies have been in destroying entire culures. But. major post-War economic changes and the rise of the consumer society, not to mention government do-gooder stupidity, silly social worker culture and institional inertia explain the messup more convincingly. Let's hope our it'll get quickly in our great-grand children's time.

22 September 2011 at 03:20  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Please explain to me why we didn't see this anarchy on the streets in the years following the two World Wars. So many fathers didn't come back leaving devastated and traumatised families behind them.

Also, please can you supply the statistics of how many rioters were from fatherless homes. I've seen and heard a lot of speculation but no actual evidence.

Thank you.

22 September 2011 at 06:45  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Norman Yardy @23.46,

Oh noes! The poor British male is nothing more than a cowering mouse to be toyed with by the evil, emancipated she-cat!

Congratulations! Your sweeping generalisation just grossly insulted every decent male on these benighted isles. It also insulted abused women and the millions of couples who remain happily married or in a secure long term relationship. I'm one of those millions.

I've been happily married for over thirty years and I don't need you, or anyone else, to tell me how it should be done! My husband has never needed any encouragement from me on how to be a decent and loving father and husband. And he isn't alone.

If you are experiencing difficulty with women being emancipated and educated perhaps you should consider joining Islam. It sounds right up your street.

22 September 2011 at 07:11  
Blogger C.Law said...


'If you are experiencing difficulty with women being emancipated and educated perhaps you should consider joining Islam. It sounds right up your street.'

well put. However, it should also be noted that according to Dodo's quotations from Paul (at 0105hrs, above) it sounds right up the Christian street as well.

Still, both Islam and Christianity follow the same god, so that should come as no surprise.

22 September 2011 at 07:37  
Blogger len said...

C Law,
How can Islam and Christians follow the same God?.
Jesus Christ is a Jew,the Bible is a Jewish book a record of the Jewish people, Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well,
'John 4:22 KJV) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.'

And the Islam 'allah' and his prophet Mohammed what was his attitude towards the Jews (and still is?)
Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.

C Law, you speak without knowledge (like so many others)of the reality of the situation, you are entitled to your opinion but as regards the truth of the situation, your opinion is worthless.

Allah is the total opposite of The God of Abraham ,Isaac and Jacob and just a brief glance at The Bible and the Koran will reveal the truth .

22 September 2011 at 08:06  
Blogger Gnostic said...

C. Law: Still, both Islam and Christianity follow the same god, so that should come as no surprise.

I'm an agnostic. All religion, especially the organised variety, is anathema to me. :0)

WV preast - oh the irony!

22 September 2011 at 08:36  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

I can explain what happened after WW1.
Extended families still existed in the traditional sense and grandparents, uncles and aunts all pulled together to bring up the children in a proper manner. Children may not have had a father, but they had uncles who would probably be stricter than a father, as they would see this as their duty to help the widowed mother.
This attitude still existed during WW2, I remember my father who was in a reserved occupation, regularly visiting my aunt to "have a word" with my cousins when there had been some trouble.

22 September 2011 at 09:38  
Blogger Gnostic said...

English Pensioner. What you say has merit and probably goes some way to explaining the social differences between then and now.

Responsibility is also a key player. How many kids became breadwinners for stricken families, especially after WWI? They had more cause to riot than the state indulged cretins that destroyed their neighbourhoods recently.

22 September 2011 at 10:28  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Avi Barzel @ 03.20, the socially corrosive social democratic ideals about which you rightly complain will end far sooner than your great grandchildren's time.

It is truly said, He who pays the piper, calls the tune. Now that just about every Western social democracy is bankrupt, where is the money for the social largesse coming from? Well it won't be from China, Premier Wen Jiabao has made that clear. So where else? The largest buyers of government debt are the banks, but the EU banks are massive sellers of assets as they struggle to fund their lending books now that the inter-bank market is closing against them. Chinese banks are not renewing lines of credit to EU banks.

It is remarkable how little the politicians are saying about the seriousness of the situation.

The political elite are clearly in denial and totally unable to explain to the electorate that a major down-shift in living Western standards is inevitable. This downshift in living standards will involve dismantling the welfare state in many areas, which has serious implications for social cohesion in Western democracies.

So when communicant Lindsay prattles on about the horrors of Dave's plans for the NHS, one can only say, enjoy what there is while you can! The Chinese aren't go to pay to get your teeth fixed.

22 September 2011 at 11:19  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...


O yes, one easily forgets about the little matter of running out dough to pay for all of this. Oops. But I have a simple solution for all our woes if you read on.

The question that pops into my head now and then on my long trips, is how much of our fiscal decline is artificially induced by unnecessarly raising the cost of work and energy through a deluge of seemingly asexually self-replicating legislations and regulations, all resulting in the creation of work and productivity which are, actually not real work and not real productivity. Costs piling upon costs, each apparently an unquestionable necessity without which civilization would collapse by supper time.

The trucking industry of which I'm part of serves, for me, as a microcosm of our system. Whereas I merely criss-cross a continent with a few tons of goods strapped to my arse, a simple and basic task, hovering unseen about me are myriads of supposedly indispensible regulations and infrastructures, some of which do make my task possible, but many more others which invisibly leech off my simple work of taking stuff from A to B without adding a kilojewel to my efforts. So, when you buy your breakfast sausages, you are paying not only for my salary, the fuel, the tractor, the road networks, the middlemen, the warehouses and outlets and other obvious necessities, but for the invisible "work" of thousands of others employed in the regulation, administration and policing of the industry. Intimately interwoven into the system, none of these apparently indispensible functions can be removed...bad things would happen, otherwise.

That's all fine and good, but at the bottom of all this is a ruthless limiting factor; energy. All this plenty we see about us is the result of our ability to release useful quantities of energy from the most efficient sunlight-storage sources in history, the carbon based fuels; coal, oil and gas. When cheap and readily available, their stored energy can fuel the basic producers, the farmers and manufacturers, and the support industries such as mine, but also the superstructures, such as governments, religious institutions, courts, schools, arts, public services and so on. The stuff civilizations are made of. But when scarce, or artificially restricted and made more and more costly, inadvertantly or by design, this life-giving mystical emanation of goodness that flows from dirty coal and smelly oils and gases, begins to wane and the gnashing of teeth and end-of-world visions begin. This is where we appear to be at now.

So, my universal solution for all the world's ills, available free of charge right here on His Grace's blog, is stupidly simple. Find me a fuel source to provide unlimited energy at the cost of the effort to punch an "on" button and I'll bring you paradise, a golden era of plenty, a world nurturing and supporting millions of artists to paint breathtakingly beatiful images on sidewalks and lamp posts, thousands of social workers with PhDs combing through the streets to dab away our tears, teams of physicians caring for anyone with a tummy ache, religious seminaries housing millions of newly spiritualized souls, high court judges adjudicating between squabbling friends at the local pub...and happy truckers riding gilded machines with houris fanning them and serving sherbets. All magnificently paid and generously pensioned, of course.

So, as important as personal responsibility, ethical conduct, religious fulfilment, family life, rule of law and all these things may be, they are merely derivatives, secondary effects of the ebs and flows of energy availability and costs. Seriously, I don't believe cheap or free energy will solve all of our ills, but it will make our problems much more managable, as history and reality prove over and over again.

22 September 2011 at 13:23  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Mr Law

You clearly lack the capacity to understand or appreciate what St. Paul wrote.

He presents a picture of a self-sacrificing and exclusive relationship between spouses; one that consists of giving and service. Yes, their is authority assigned to the male but not in the crude way you imply. Neither is it similar in any way to the views propounded by Islam.

At the time of St. Paul's presentation this was radical in the Roman and pagan world. Down the centuries this vision has served to emancipate women rather than enslave them.

Try reading it again!

22 September 2011 at 13:24  
Blogger Sam Norton said...

Some in the Church of England are talking about it: this is my article for our local newspaper

22 September 2011 at 14:42  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


You've said many of us are deluded, yet you've no answered my question.

How do you know you are not the one suffering from the 'Great Delusion'?


If it's me that's wrong, then may God forgive me. My answer will be clear - I loved and served Him to the best of my ability. I followed the teachings of the Church He instituted and delegated His authority to. I placed my trust in His promise to that Church - unconditionally - because I believe in His Word - absolutely.

And you, if you're wrong what will your answer be?

22 September 2011 at 15:21  
Blogger Rufus T. Firefly said...

Fascinating account of a community, Chemnitz in former East Germany, where atheism has long held sway. The article also shows how the Church is attempting to counter atheism's dreary and destructive effects with the hope and laughter of family life.

22 September 2011 at 15:29  
Blogger Man With A Pen said...

The Church as a whole and the Church of England in particular began its nose dive when it embraced cultural Marxism and Feminism without taking the time to investigate either. They laid aside the God given gift of discernment and relied, fataly, upon the wisdom of men and women.

Had they investigated carefully and prayerfully the social revolution that was going on around them in the late 1950's, 60's and right up to today, they would have found the roots of paganism and Communism and been alerted to the danger. Instead, they simply embraced the propaganda of the Frankfurt School and Feminism's ideas of the "new man," "new family" and the false guilt imposed upon men and fathers and now they have dug themselves into a hole that only deep repentence can get them out of. Will they repent? I doubt it. Pride is hard to discard. I hope I am wrong about that though.

22 September 2011 at 16:33  
Blogger Preacher said...

IMO most branches of the church have ceased preaching the gospel.
Instead many have opted for an entertaining but pointless non gospel.
The 'free' church has live bands that can destroy hearing at fifty yards & in far too many cases have adopted leaders & speakers that promise instant Paradise for the price of a ten second prayer, with no mention of repentance. Result: cheap believerism that lasts for a few months then vanishes.
The traditional Churches offer a more reflective, classical style, based on ceremony & liturgy with a touch of drama & mysticism.
The result IMO, is a society that has no moral or spiritual foundation to guide it.
No one has warned of God's judgement, Heaven or Hell & His love & supreme sacrifice to stop mankind from from paying the price of sin.

So the world just goes on doing what it wants ignorant of its fate, rebelling against its creator.
directionless, lawless, selfish.

Where are the Wesleys, Moodys or Finneys, Men who storm Heaven with their prayers that move God to send revival.

Before someone points out that many churches don't fit into these categories. I agree, but far too many do! & these have to take their calling to preach the gospel seriously while there is still time.

All men have a Father who loves & cares for them. But far too many haven't been told.

22 September 2011 at 16:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Yes Avi

Twas one of the Inspector’s larger posts. He tends to stick to pronouncements, and not detail the thought (…or as his critics would argue, ‘lack of thought’…) behind them.

The cost of the welfare system in the UK is truly staggering (…an oft overused word, but not in this case…). It requires the entire income tax take to pay for it. So if anyone needs to know what it costs them personally, just look at your pay slip, pension statement or savings statement. The last time this happened in peacetime was in the early years of the 20th century, during the Dreadnaught building phase of the Royal Navy – to stop the Germans taking over the seas. The country gets by on the other forms of taxation, probably fuel duty as the Inspector’s motorist friends assure him.

Obviously it can’t continue this way (…in much the same way as the USSR collapsed after it’s ‘war economy’ became too much for it…).

The Inspector proposes a new welfare system for 2 groups. The physically incapacitated or over pension age claimants and the rest. To get onto the first, you would have to be assessed by a panel of 3 medics, and re-assessed every 12 months.. The ‘rest’ to be treated as ‘available for work’. When offered suitable employment, rejection results in being classified as ‘workshy’. The workshy to receive food, heat, and rent vouchers at subsistence level.

Most fair to the tax payer (…er, that’s us…). The Inspector is sure you’ll all agree…

22 September 2011 at 18:29  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo (21 September 2011 23:39)

I am personally interested in the ways we all see the world differently

Normally, the Inspector would agree with you. But ‘Conspiracy theories’ – that's so old hat. If he posts his nonsense, then he can take what’s coming to him, like the rest of us.

By the way, the Inspector recalls same man stating that Benedict XVI had a son ! You weren’t very keen on what he had to say then, were you. {INSPECTOR SNORTS}

22 September 2011 at 18:37  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Gnostic (22 September 2011 07:11)

to be toyed with by the evil, emancipated she-cat!

Just an observation, these emancipated women go out and get drunk. Go home with a man and are rather disappointed when they’re raped !!

No wonder rape convictions are so low, about 5%. When the Inspector was a boy, there was a well used phrase going around; it was “asking for it”.

22 September 2011 at 18:57  
Blogger privatefrazer said...

Your Grace,
I am in awe of you and your contributors.
Being a pensioner, grandparent and simple person I have for some time felt let down by the lack of leadership from the church. Why does the Archbishop of Canterbury never stand up and resist the constant attacks upon us? He alone is responsible for so people leaving the church because it is seen as no longer standing up for their Christian values.

As a country we are losing the faith, the blame for which rest clearly with the Archbishop of Canterbury. But then, what should we expect from someone appointed by Tony?

22 September 2011 at 20:52  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector General
"When the Inspector was a boy, there was a well used phrase going around; it was “asking for it”.

That's a shocking comment!

A gentleman would never, never consider making amourous approaches on a woman under the influence of alcohol.

A Christian gentleman would never act on the impulse to make sexual moves on a woman be she drunk or sober.

22 September 2011 at 21:08  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector General

Regarding your post on the welfare system. Why not just bring back the Poor Law?

22 September 2011 at 21:12  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo, old chap

Of course you are right, but it’s rather difficult when the ladies’ clothes are hanging half off them. Men are such beasts, don’t you agree...

On the subject of the Poor Law, well what an excellent idea you have...

The workhouses certainly kept the piss poor fed and occupied. And the thought of never seeing a ‘Big Issue’ seller again....

22 September 2011 at 21:22  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


One must either avoid or find the strength to walk away from all such "occassions of sin".

Basic Catholic teaching, old boy.

Building a network of new Poor Houses would certainly stimulate the wider economy and thereafter provide employment for overseers and their teams.

22 September 2011 at 22:22  
Blogger Gnostic said...

OoIG: When the Inspector was a boy, there was a well used phrase going around; it was “asking for it”.

And it seems there is a good supply of not so cowering and equally drunken mice all to willing to "hand it out". Or do you think it's solely a bloke's preserve to behave like total a wanker after too many bevvies? Not that I condone such boorish and stupid behaviour, you understand. There's nothing dignified about lying in your own puke or worse in some town centre gutter. Or punching some stranger's lights out because he committed some non-existant transgression otherwise known as "wrong kind of eye contact".


22 September 2011 at 22:56  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Sadly, nowadays, women are as prone as men to brutish behaviour. Lower moral standards combined with the pill, drugs, alcohol and modern day hedonistic values, 'liberates' both men and women to behave no better than animals.

Don't be too hard on the Inspector. He's a bit old fashioned and has some 'sexist' attitudes.

22 September 2011 at 23:23  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Presumably the lesbians Dodo corrected and the ones he didn't manage to correct weren't drunk when he was in his shag-around heyday he was boasting^h^h^h embarrassed and ashamed about the other day.

23 September 2011 at 06:30  
Blogger Fr Ivan Oder said...

It is good to read an article by one of the world's greatest fundamentalist minds and theologians. Sheer genius!

23 September 2011 at 07:55  
Blogger Gnostic said...

I agree with you about the lack or moral standards and the hedonism, Mr Dodo. However, behaving like total twonks just because they can isn't liberation, its peer pressure gone rampant. Apparently, with the hardcore nutters, it's cool to be a violent, slack bladdered, semi-comatose moron.

Thankfully, although this problem is more widespread these days (it's always been with us as you know), there are many kids who do have some self control, know their limits and know how to have a good time without ending up embarrassing themselves on CCTV. Perhaps because there's someone like me at home to give them furious hell if they overstep the bounds of what is acceptable whilst living under the parental roof. I'm rather old fashioned that way and so are a lot of the people I know.

My own son only ever bowed to this type of peer pressure once (he was 17), came home absolutely hammered (he's a happy drunk) and suffered the consequences, both physical (world class hangover) and maternal (angry hell-bitch) the next morning. He's never repeated the experience (he admits he didn't particularly enjoy it because he was as sick as a dog) and now knows how to have the occasional good night out on the town (he's now 22), drink sensibly and find his own way home (usually a pre-booked taxi for him and his mates) without making an absolute arse of himself. And he's not alone. Most of his mates, both male and female, are sensible when they have a night out. It's become a matter of pride to them. :0)

23 September 2011 at 08:14  
Blogger len said...


How do I know I am right about spiritual matters?.

Well, I have taken Jesus Christ at His word and I have been taught by no man!.
'But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his
own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.'(John16:13)

This is a promise of Jesus Christ, and Jesus does not lie ,bend or distort the truth for His own gain!.

23 September 2011 at 08:23  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ah, memories of my wild and wanton youth. Well, no, actually. I lived as an utter dweeb by contemporaneous standards, altough I thought of my self "modern." Drinking consisted of a half-shot or two of whiskey at the Sabbath luncheons, but imbibed somewhat twice a year, on Purim and Simkhat Torah holy days, as per custom. "Dating" began in the senior years at university and meant going out in groups with my cohort of friends, where boys and girls sat on opposite ends of the only, of course. One of us found a "dating manual" from the 50s and as per its precise, cheesily illustrated instructions, all of us guys wore ties, sat sraight in our chairs as if impaled by a stake, and would get up at the same time whenever a young lady at our table stood up. We must have looked like a pack of weird yo-yos bopping up and down in unison. Although comfortable around girls and women in the community, the "dating" mode was scary for me and I stuttered and hid my shaky hands under the table. Experienced a bar scene for the first time in my mid-twenties, when I attended a conference in Montreal and found it outright frightening, with all the noise, loud people, smoke and reek of beer. Upon marriage, we all relied on hearsay, biologically pre-programmed human inclinations and a shot of liquid courage. It's a miracle we survived well enough to tell the tale and to reproduce.

23 September 2011 at 13:24  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


You're a feisty lass, and with a good mind too ! The Inspector likes that in a woman.

As you rightly point out, street disturbance is an age old problem. In the Inspector’s day it was greasers and skinheads, having a ‘chains and knives’ evening. Two big differences come to mind. First, the paddy wagons were on the scene quickly, and no WPCs either – big rugby playing policemen with their truncheons out. Second, the concept of a ‘disorderly house’. This was a very important consideration for the pub landlord who could loose his livelihood. (No pub managers in those days who could easily be moved on to the next assignment). The local licensing committee could revoke the licence of any establishment deemed to be ‘disorderly’ on police advice – and they did !!

So thank you liberals out there, present and past, who managed to slacken the time served licensing regulations. Now a drunken party can turn up at a managed bar and demand service, and get it !! Sadly, the majority of men are selfish boors when drunk, and what’s this, the ladies have joined in too !! How’s that for sex equality on top of a liberal inspired collapse in standards….

23 September 2011 at 18:04  
Blogger David Lindsay said...

The General Synod does not have the final say on women bishops in the Church of England. Parliament does. No one who does not accept in full the claims of Rome can submit to Her; no one who does can fail to do so. In its own terms, if a new network of Conservative Evangelical congregations would better serve the proclamation of the Gospel, then it must be created anyway. In neither case does any other consideration arise. Certainly, the prospect of either need not concern Parliament as a body.

Classical Christianity is the basis of this state and the foundation of all three of its political traditions. But independent research has found very large proportions of the women among the Church of England’s clergy to be doubters of or disbelievers in key points of doctrine. Two thirds deny “that Jesus Christ was born of a Virgin”. One quarter denies the existence “of God the Father Who created the world”. Assuming a woman on the episcopal “team” in each diocese, of those with privileged access to the media and other organs of national life as the voice of the Christianity professed by seventy-two per cent of Britons, at least one eighth would be agnostics or atheists.

A positive decision to retain declared “Fathers in God” within our parliamentary system and wider national life would emphasise the importance of fatherhood. That would set the tone for the introduction of a legal presumption of equal parenting. For the restoration of the tax allowance for fathers for so long as Child Benefit was being paid to mothers. For the restoration of the requirement that providers of fertility treatment take account of the child’s need for a father. For repeal of the ludicrous provision for two women to be listed as a child’s parents on a birth certificate, although even that is excelled by the provision for two men to be so listed. And for paternity leave to be made available at any time until the child was 18 or left school.

That last, in particular, would reassert paternal authority, and thus require paternal responsibility, at key points in childhood and adolescence. That authority and responsibility require an economic basis such as only the State can ever guarantee, and such as only the State can very often deliver. And that basis is high-wage, high-skilled, high-status employment. All aspects of public policy must take account of this urgent social and cultural need. Not least, that includes energy policy: the energy sources to be preferred by the State are those providing the high-wage, high-skilled, high-status jobs that secure the economic basis of paternal authority in the family and in the wider community. So, nuclear power. And coal, not dole.

And it includes foreign policy, in no small part because those sent to war tend to come from working-class backgrounds, where starting to have children often still happens earlier than has lately become the norm. Think of those very young men whom we see going off or coming home, hugging and kissing their tiny children. Yet our society urgently needs to re-emphasise the importance of fatherhood. That authority cannot be affirmed while fathers are torn away from their children and harvested in wars. You can believe in fatherhood, or you can support wars under certainly most and possibly all circumstances, the latter especially in practice today even if not necessarily in the past or in principle. You cannot do both. Which is the conservative position? Which makes present in the world the Fatherhood of God proclaimed by Jesus Christ, the fundamental point of reference for all three of our political traditions?

To argue for this by word and by sheer presence is a role for living icons of God the Father, addressed as “Fathers in God”. Parliament must do its duty and reassert the importance of fatherhood by rejecting any proposal for women bishops. No matter what.

23 September 2011 at 18:21  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Agreed Mr Lindsay

Whenever man has a good idea – darts, skittles, football - women have to get in on the act. The palpable truth is that they are not very good when they come to do it. Women bishops are going to be exactly the same.

Should any women out there object to this post – please spare the Inspector any ‘well back to the kitchen sink’ pathos. There’s good girls...

23 September 2011 at 19:05  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "big rugby playing policemen with their truncheons out"


24 September 2011 at 06:43  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


...and they wouldn’t have taken too kindly to idea’s about gay marriage !

24 September 2011 at 16:16  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I do so like a man in uniform.

24 September 2011 at 17:09  
Blogger Serpents and Doves said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

24 September 2011 at 18:38  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


You would have loved it pre 1967 – all those burly prison officers !!

24 September 2011 at 19:06  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Please don't encourage DanJ0's sad little fantasies. He's got enough to contend with already.

24 September 2011 at 20:26  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "You would have loved it pre 1967 – all those burly prison officers !!"

You're straying into Dodo's sort of territory now (BDSM) with talk of restraints and things. Well, former territory. Allegedly. Man of the world, our Dodo, bless 'im. You'd be surprised at what he used to get up to, we're told. I haven't dared ask whether he was uphill gardening back then too.

24 September 2011 at 20:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


All harmless fun, and the boy responds positively. Don’t want him going around in a sulk having lost the gay marriage debate, now do we ?


Still not sure what ‘BDSM’ is. The Inspector will look it up one day when he has the courage. Dodo means well, in a fatherly way. I do think he his genuinely upset you’ve come down as a analist

24 September 2011 at 20:54  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Don’t want him going around in a sulk having lost the gay marriage debate, now do we ?"

Lost? Ha, in your dreams. I'm very satisfied with that debate. Anyway, it'll be in your reality in the not to distant future I reckon. :)

"Dodo means well, in a fatherly way. I do think he his genuinely upset you’ve come down as a analist"

I don't do anal ... in either direction. Too much information, I expect, but one must shoot these preconceptions and assumptions down. Lots of us don't, you know, and still enjoy a good sex life.

24 September 2011 at 21:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


Marvellous news on the ‘a’ business, (to quote Del Boy “You know it makes sense”). The Inspector General has always had the state of your behind in his thoughts.

You can forget about gay marriage for some time – Greece is about to dump on the countries it owes money to, big time. Parliament will be spending all it’s it time saving the EU dream (or nightmare, if you have any sense). He He He...

24 September 2011 at 21:39  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector General

Wonder if DanJ0 is as mouthy at home as he is on here? His verbal talents are not too great but then he may be better orally i.e. when speaking, you understand.

25 September 2011 at 00:09  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Point of correction. I said you'd be surprised what I know; not what I got up to. Do pay attention or you'll end up transferring your paranoia of Albert my way!

25 September 2011 at 00:12  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


DanJ0 is a ‘bred in the bone’ homosexual (not to be confused with ‘Bred in the Bone’ the blogger who would no doubt be annoyed with this statement) and he must live his life as best as he can. Would you swap places with him; the Inspector wouldn't...(no offense meant at that, DanJ0, the Inspector just wouldn’t know where to start...)

25 September 2011 at 00:52  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Marvellous news on the ‘a’ business, (to quote Del Boy “You know it makes sense”). The Inspector General has always had the state of your behind in his thoughts."

I don't doubt it. By observation, most religious people, and the pseudo-religious too, seem to spend more time thinking about gay sex and all the stuff around it than we gay people do. I'm sure some of these evangelical people even wake up in the night thinking about gay sex! I'd say it was strange that the same enthusiastic concern doesn't appear to be shown about adultery or co-habitation. But it isn't, and what is really going on is contained in that little fact.

"Would you swap places with him; the Inspector wouldn't...(no offense meant at that, DanJ0, the Inspector just wouldn’t know where to start...)"

No offense taken at all. It's completely natural and normal to me, the only issue is the occasional troubles the more luddite elements of society throw at us. The same could be said between being black or white. Well, Michael Jackson swapping groups notwithstanding. I wouldn't swap places with you guys either, I mean, ewwww how can you be attracted to that. Gross.

25 September 2011 at 06:20  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Point of correction. I said you'd be surprised what I know; not what I got up to."

Got it. *wink*

That's a conspiratorial wink, not a 'come on', by the way. Just in case your past antics were rather broader than you were hinting at.

25 September 2011 at 06:23  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0 (25 September 2011 12:49)

I wouldn't swap places with you guys either, I mean, ewwww how can you be attracted to that. Gross.

Well there you go Dodo. Our DanJ0 is a natural, which as the Inspector has pointed out, fits in with his observation that homosexuality is in God’s plan.

The Inspector remembers at the age of 13, being strongly attracted to one of his teacher’s backsides (...relax Dodo, we’ll call her Miss Goodbody to save the innocent...). Those subtle lines and overall shape really did it for the then trainee inspector. She was absolutely delighted !! Thought IG was hooked on her teaching skills; hanging on to her every word as he was doing...

25 September 2011 at 14:18  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


You were fortunate, my early teachers were nuns so no fantasies there. Then an all male Catholic secondary school. We were next door to all girl school though and shared playing fields with them. Happy, innocent days.

In my experience all disturbances of the mind tend to manifest themselves in the realm of psycho-sexual issues. Without disclosing trade secrets, the power of sex has been used and misused since the beginning of time to entrap men's souls.

I doubt very much God willed homosexuality; just as He didn't will paedophilia and all the other sexual deviations from the natural order. He permits it but, in my opinion, does not condone it. Roamn

Catholicism, surprising for some, has a very understanding attitude towards those caught in the grasp of sexual deviancy, seeing these as disorders that weakens resistance to vices that can become addictive and overwhelming.

25 September 2011 at 15:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Without disclosing trade secrets [...]"


25 September 2011 at 16:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


Paedophilia is an interesting one. Now in the Inspector’s opinion, that is the result of moral degeneration. A feeling of power over the victims, perhaps – all corruption of the soul of course. Don’t think anyone has put forward the idea that you can be born with it, same as no one is born to be a prostitute, female or male...

On the subject of ‘trade secrets’, women on a ‘mission of capture’ know the lot. Inspector has been there...

25 September 2011 at 16:50  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Paedophilia is most certainly a moral degeneration but some men and women are drawn 'instinctively' to innocence and do appear to have an inborn, inherent sexual tendency towards children.

Modern society's overt sexualisation of children and easy access to the internet, merely reinforces this and makes it seem 'normal' to the mind of those so inclined. It's the same, in my opinion, with homosexuality. What we know to be wrong can become 'permissible' given certain circumstances.

Some fruits are better not tasted whatever the temptation and require the restraint of moral reasoning and self discipline. Instead, man justifies his action and the secular world goes merrily along with this.

Prostitution is, as they say, another whole new ball-game (no pun intended) and its more difficult to comprehend the indivdual circumstances of those involved.

25 September 2011 at 17:36  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


The 'explanation' you gave for paedophilia is a feminist one, you do know that? Too narrow a perspective and rules out too many factors.

25 September 2011 at 17:38  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

25 September 2011 at 17:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

By the way Inspector, *high-fives* for finally hooking a marlin in the capital punishment thread. :)

26 September 2011 at 04:49  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Don’t think anyone has put forward the idea that you can be born with it, same as no one is born to be a prostitute, female or male..."

Even if one were, there's clearly abuse and harm involved. That is, there is a victim when one acts. That makes all the difference.

26 September 2011 at 04:53  
Blogger Graham Combs said...

American readers will recall the late Sen. Patrick Moynihan's paper on the Black family in 1965. At that time 25% of black families were fatherless. This was considered terrible omen. In urban Detroit it is now edging eighty percent. For America overall it is hovering about forty percent. You will take cold comfort in the Episcopal Church's identical silence on this. But then the Anglican Communion has become the "We Don't Judge" Church. One reason why I am a former Anglican and a convert to Catholicism. I also lost my father at age 3 in a car accident. I look on horrified to see personal tragedy made public policy. With a little help from Hollywood, New York media, popular music, and the elites who more often than not do not subject their own children to this tragic absence. But there is a freakish insularity among the elites despite the obvious judgment that "it's not working."

28 September 2011 at 03:30  

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