Friday, November 04, 2011

Charlemagne crushes Greek democracy

The true anti-democratic nature of the European Union has rarely been more explicit; the ruling Franco-German axis rarely more conspicuous. George Papandreou merely sought moral authority for the austerity packages being imposed upon the Greek people, and that demanded the application of democracy - a referendum. So he marched his people to the top of the Parthenon, only to be forced to march them down again. Athens - the cradle of democracy - has been humiliated in Europe and the world: her social and economic turmoil is merely a reflection of her political impotence.

It is clear who really runs the European Union and where the real power resides. It wasn't, after all, Malta who summoned Greece: he who pays the piper gets to call the tune. And the piper is Germany, aided and abetted by France. And when the Greek Prime Minister arrived at the headmaster's study, naughty George was read the riot act; hysterical threats were made of expulsion; he was bullied into backing down; and the dark threats were too much to bear. Europe’s political élite badgered and cajoled until little George cancelled his referendum. Sarkozy strutted and postured like Napoleon; Merkel puffed and blew like the Kaiser. But this alliance is nothing new.

The European Union is essentially the recreation of the old Empire of Charlemagne: from the moment the Treaty of Paris was signed in 1951, the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) bound together the economic and political destinies of France and Germany. Charlemagne was crowned Imperator Romanorum (Emperor of the Romans) by Pope Leo III in AD800. He became Western Europe’s ‘Christian’ Caesar - a Roman emperor born of a Germanic race. The West once again had an emperor, and his coronation was to become the central event of the Middle Ages. He was proclaimed Rex Pater Europae (King Father of Europe) and espoused the ideal of a unified Christian Empire of the Frankish and Germanic tribes - albeit christianised at sword-point - in close alliance with the Pope.

In 962, Otto the Great revived Charlemagne’s Empire as the first German Reich, and was crowned Holy Roman Emperor by Pope John XII. This Reich became known as the Sacrum Romanum Imperium Nationis Germanicae (Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation). Germany became the power centre of the Empire. Throughout the Middle Ages it was to be the kings of the Germans, crowned by the Pope, who would be named Holy Roman Emperor. Napoleon crowned himself with the ‘iron crown’ of Lombardy, the great historic symbol of Europe which had previously been worn by Charlemagne, Otto the Great and other European sovereigns.

Both France and Germany are vying for control of the European superstate, with both sides claiming the heritage of the crown of Charlemagne. Margaret Thatcher knew what was going on when she observed at the Fontainebleau Summit of 1984: "The whole axis is France and Germany, and what they say the others agree with." Former French foreign minister Hervé de Charette confirmed this, when he declared: "The Franco-German axis must continue to fulfil its federating function... The single currency project is the principal and...only European federating project...the powerfully federalist character of this project has yet to be appreciated."

Senior European economists also affirm that decisions are partly rigged in advance by the two largest member states - Germany and France - which are bound by the terms of their bilateral treaty of 1963 to reach ‘as far as possible an analogous position’ ahead of meetings of the Council of Ministers. There was a curious symbolic expression of this continuing alliance - a union within the Union - at the Aachen summit of 1978, when the President of France Valéry Giscard d’Estaing and German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt paid homage at the throne and burial place of Charlemagne - the federalist’s patron saint. Afterwards, the French President remarked: "Perhaps when we discussed monetary problems, the spirit of Charlemagne brooded over us."

And so the spirit of Charlemagne still broods: the Franco-German axis has chewed and spat out the birthplace of democracy, the fount of Western philosophy and literature, the creator of the Olympic Games, the originator of historiography, political science, mathematical principles, and our dramatic traditions of tragedy and comedy. And there is more to come: the same fate will befall Portugal, Italy and Spain, for 'the powerfully federalist character of this project has yet to be appreciated'. Truly, we have learned nothing from history.


Blogger graham wood said...

Oh dear. Clearly, neither Angela or Nicholas have read the 2nd Psalm to get a little 'light' and to discover their destiny.

4 November 2011 at 10:09  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

The Greek government (whoever is PM) might try to obey the EU orders, but things are unlikely to change as the people are clearly unwilling to accept orders, particularly from the Germans. Meanwhile the referendum is "off", a General Election is likely to be "on", and the situation gets worse. I believe that there is a fair chance of a military take over, as when the public employees are not paid for lack of money, they will stop work, services will fail and there will probably be riots which only the military will be able to regain control.

4 November 2011 at 10:42  
Blogger bluedog said...

It is just possible that the crushing of Greece will light up a bulb in Dave's head. Sort of 'what about us' thinking. No PR spin can disguise the reality that France and Germany are prepared to act with utter ruthlessness to protect and promote The Project.

'Repatriation of sovereignty? Of course not Angela, never crossed my mind, it's all yours.' 'Vielen dank, Dave.'

4 November 2011 at 10:44  
Blogger The Gray Monk said...

There is another way of seeing what has happened in Greece. They lied and cheated and cooked their books to get into the Euro and stave off the collapse of the Drachma. Then, when the chickens have come home to roost, they don't like the remedy for staying in the Euro and can't simply revert to the "old currency" because it would have no value, no worth and no buying power. They've dug this hole for themselves.

Papandreou wanted a referendum because he thought he could save his government from being booted out, not because it would actually serve any democratic purpose. It was cynical move from the start. The Greeks have to learn that if they want a stable currency they have to contribute and not just spend everyone else's cash. The rest of Europe's banks have been forced to write off large chunks of Greek debt and Papandreou thought he could get it all written off so he could carry on with his socialist spend, spend, spend.

You may not approve of the French-German Axis (A rather dangerous and inflammatory label YG!) but the UK could have had a part in it and baulked with grander schemes in mind which no longer exist. We've managed to alienate the former colonies, the Dominions and the Commonwealth. We are a power only because, at present, the Finance Markets find the UK's financial position profitable and because the Americans prop us up. For years now our politicians have burbled about being "part of Europe" and "in Europe" but holding it at arms length.

The UK is not a part of the Eurozone, but it's financial stability is as badly affected by a collapse in the Euro as will be France or Germany. France and Germany - and all the other Euro countries - have an obligation to save the currency they have adopted. They cannot allow a single rogue to destroy the economies of all the other states simply because the Greeks don't like the medicine they need to take in order to save themselves from their own stupidity and cupidity.

4 November 2011 at 10:48  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

Isn't it curious that the nations who are doing best out of the EU are the ones who simply continued nineteeth century politics as usual, just moved into the political instead of the military forum. These are the counties who put national considerations above the idiotic (and rather dark) idealism of European union. Counties such as Denmark and (surprisingly) even Britain, ie the ones who are inside the Union BUT who kept their own currencies are the ones who are going to come out of this standing. While the EU was working as a purely economic bloc it was good for everyone. Nowadays, as Cranmer says, it's the Holy Roman Empire

4 November 2011 at 11:23  
Blogger martin sewell said...

I am partly with the Grey Monk.

The Franco-German axis is a problem to us but I find it hard to detect too much nobility in the Greek street mobs crying because socialism has run out of other people's money.

4 November 2011 at 11:25  
Blogger len said...

The true intentions of those behind the formation of the European Union are now crystal clear.
This is a complete betrayal of the people of all Countries involved as our Democratic system is finally laid to rest.
We are now Governed by a Federal Europe our Heritage has thrown in the trash can with individual Nations Sovereignty.

We have been' sold out' by the very people we have trusted to guard our interests.

4 November 2011 at 11:26  
Blogger Kiwi said...

As high noon approaches, I have the distinct feeling that the Brits are about to realise that they are not, despite what they’ve been told by their political masters, Europeans after all.

4 November 2011 at 11:32  
Blogger Richard said...

Well, at least you have the last sentence right.

4 November 2011 at 11:36  
Blogger Anoneumouse said...

A classic 'Hácha Job'

You can't beat a bit of Háchaizing" in the evening.

4 November 2011 at 11:39  
Blogger Preacher said...

The picture of the tower of Babel, which figures prominantly in the E.U continues to spring to mind.
Combined with the Slaves building the Pyramids.
I can almost hear the crack of the Franco/German slave drivers whip, or is it the three line whip that denied us the chance to leave the bondage of Euro slavery behind us? One thing is for sure, Cameron is no Moses.
We should not forget that Israel were not conquered, captured & taken to Egypt as slaves. They were the descendants of Joseph, who once held high office in that country.
The Tower of Babel was built in an attempt to supplant God with man, it probably seemed a good idea for rebellious humanity at the time.
It seems that it's unnatural in God's eyes for human beings to be forced into a single uniform mass, without the choice to decide for themselves & the destruction of Babel & the fate of Pharaoh & Egypt would seem to confirm this.
When man wants to be God, then God responds by destroying man's over inflated ego & proving that there will only ever be One Almighty.

Let the supplanters beware!.

4 November 2011 at 11:56  
Blogger James Reade said...

Astonishing. If you agree with the political actions, you laud them to the ends of the earth, yet the moment they don't, they are corrupt, dishonest, machiavellian, etc.

Do you really think Panandreou's decision to hold a referendum was a genuine attempt to test the will of the people? Or a ploy ahead of his no-confidence vote?

Why, when it's anti-Europe, is the politician as pure as the driven snow, yet when it's pro-Europe it's nasty, manipulative, divisive, undemocratic, etc etc etc?

The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming.

4 November 2011 at 12:16  
Blogger Johnnyrvf said...

There are so many interweaved policies and reasons for the Axis to fear Greece leaves the E.U., one major reason is Turkey, whilst Cameron who is little more than a self serving, vain, shallow vassal for the real puppet masters behind the scene, wishes Turkey to join the E.U. Merkel and Sarkozi know that this will open a tide of ideology completely foreign to western civilisations base Christian ethos; France 'sold' Greece 2 Billion Euros worth of main battle tanks with a five year payback plan, the reasons, I can only speculate but I would imagine somewhere near the top of the list is to let Turkey know that Europe wont be breached through by what appear to be weak members, financially or otherwise, however close to the Islamic axis they are geographically speaking, trouble is the MSM never report on any of these aspects or that Greece has the one of the oldest Christian Churches in the Orthodox Church whos Patriarchate was formed before the Patriarchate of Rome which was later hi-jacked by the Papacy.

4 November 2011 at 12:18  
Blogger graham wood said...

Grey Monk wrote:
"They cannot allow a single rogue to destroy the economies of all the other states simply because the Greeks don't like the medicine they need to take in order to save themselves from their own stupidity and cupidity."

Whilst I agree with most of your post and that of course the Greek government is primarily to blame for the present crisis, it is going rather far to describe Greece as a "rogue state", and cannot be held responsible for a Euro system which is so structurally flawed that Eurozone members states would inevitably be compelled to leave it at some point anyway. (PIIGS?)

It is the right of the Greek people, as opposed to their ruling political elite, to demand a referendum (via Papa or any other party or politician) to decide their destiny.
How many more months must pass with daily riots on the streets before their government will listen
Of course it was a grave error for Greece to go into the Euro in the first place, but that does not invalidate their democratic right to re-engage with the desperate situation they are now in.

I think the only solution is exit the political project known as the Euro, for it is inevitably doomed, face the pain, and do what both Argentina and Iceland in recent history have done with national recovery in both cases.

4 November 2011 at 12:31  
Blogger Berserker said...

I don't feel the slightest bit sorry for the Greeks and is it not quite ironic that the meanest and most money conscious people in Europe have got themselves into this mess.

Decades of privilege for the communist Unions, the non payment of taxes, the fraud and lying, the acceptance by the general population of very early retirement and large pensions, the 14 months salary for 12 months (although most of Europe seems to have this now), the long holidays... Only 1% of Greek assets held in Swiss Banks are declared to their own authorities.The drachma has always been weak and Greece was falling apart before it became an EU member.

The EU knew this was going on and refused to put in legislation to make more stringent checks on their member States.

And don't get me started on the national debt of Belgium which is a mess that is strangely kept quiet.

4 November 2011 at 12:40  
Blogger mettle said...

"...the borrower is servant to the lender." - proverbs 22:7

4 November 2011 at 14:01  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Lot of 'ole time religion in these comments. It's the 21st Century!

Greek tried to get it both ways - stay in the Eurozone and get it's debt halved. Probably hoping for more money too. Europe was, in my opinion, quite correct in hauling them beack to reality.

4 November 2011 at 15:00  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

Who gave Mrs Merkel such power and authority?

4 November 2011 at 15:04  
Blogger Hereward said...

Truly, we have learned nothing from history.

Or Shakespeare.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry." - Hamlet Act 1 Scene 3

4 November 2011 at 15:11  
Blogger Preacher said...

I really can't understand why the main thrust of Dr Cranmer,s Blog for today is being missed. surely it isn't a question of whether the Greeks deserve to be in the situation, or not, they probably do, but they were allowed in to the 'Eurozone' loaned money that they had no hope of repaying & now find themselves at the tender mercies of Merkel & co. surely one of the economic gurus in Belgium must have raised an objection to them joining. Unless of course it was a baited hook, a Euro spratt to catch a Greek Mackerel?.
Pardon the pun gentlemen, but their's something fishy going on here. A flexing of Euro Muscle or Perhaps a warning to the rest of the 'members' that when you owe, you owe & into hock you go. Only to come back Battered & knowing you've had your chips.
We should all learn the lesson & avoid smoked Mackerels, sorry, I meant Smoking Merkals.

4 November 2011 at 16:33  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

"I really can't understand why the main thrust of Dr Cranmer,s Blog for today is being missed"

Mr Preacher,

His Grace asks himself this most days. He is of late coming to the inescapable conclusion that his ministry has run its course.

4 November 2011 at 16:37  
Blogger Preacher said...

Be bold good Sir & remember "When you have done all. Stand". There would without doubt be those that would welcome your departure as a thorn removed from their flesh that is why you must continue to shine the light into the darkness of those who hate the light because their deeds are evil.
Night may come but in the morning the Sun will shine.

4 November 2011 at 16:58  
Blogger Jon said...

Don't get down, your Grace, get even.

Do what I do - go to Dodo's house with a megaphone and read him Darwin's "Origin of Species".

You'd be sorely missed if you went.


4 November 2011 at 17:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

The most astonishing part of Greece’s troubles is that there is no stated commitment to taxation reform. Their ‘money in peoples pockets rather than the state treasury’ stance looks to be as precious as their concept of democracy. Perhaps it is an essential element of true democracy – explains away a lot of the failings of our system and the shower in our parliament. The Inspector finds it quite refreshing, for if the money is in peoples pockets, it can’t be given to the undeserving in the form of benefit handouts, neither can it be used to bribe the voters with lower tax promises in manifestos. You can’t give back what you haven’t taken in the first place – what !

Instead, the Greeks get by on self reliability. You can see it in the extended family setup they have. Not for them council run nurseries. The family does the childcare. And they are spared what we have to put up with - mothers (…often single…) screaming at television cameras when state child care facilities are reduced, saying how unfair it is they have to find alternative arrangements for their child.

And yet it was all to change in Greece, in a cynical move to make the people conform with the socialistic EU, they were soaked in EU money that wasn’t theirs. Encouraged to spend in an attempt to reduce an independent spirit to our level of dependency on our political masters, as we walk around with our arms outstretched and an open hand at the end of them, thankful for what we can get…

So join the Inspector as he wishes the Greeks well, as they wreck the Franco-German new order. After all, for us right wing thinking bloggers, are we not Greeks ourselves…

4 November 2011 at 17:36  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Now that's just being unkind. Besides, I doubt our gracious host would demean himself in the way you suggest. He's got better things to do with his time.

4 November 2011 at 17:40  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace

Fortitude sir. You are in the ascendance, and the Inspector notes you have recently appointed to The Freedom Association council – such is the recognition of your sterling work. The Inspector himself is proud to have been associated with these good people for several years now, and counts amongst his friends that hardworking stalwart of the ‘Better Off Out’ campaign, the engaging Simon Richards (...who also blogs for the Daily Mail, don’t you know...).

You are a champion of the right sir, and quite irreplaceable. The Inspector salutes you !

All for God, Queen and Country, old chap. Your humble servant.

4 November 2011 at 17:51  
Blogger Bryan Dunleavy said...

The Holy Roman Empire founded by Otto was designed to give a corrupt and more-or-less hereditary Papacy some credibility, as well as allow Otto more influence in Europe. It didn't last and various reincarnations of the HRE were never overly powerful.
A better parallel with the present Eu might be drawn with the 15th century Papacy - and we know how that ended.

4 November 2011 at 17:51  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

4 November 2011 at 18:19  
Blogger non mouse said...

Your Grace, thank you again for an excellent article -- I especially appreciate the historical trend of your argument.

Indeed, we are unable to learn from history; we don't even seem to realize how lucky we were to keep a good way from Charley Boy the first time around.

My argument is that even the Greeks owe a good bit to us, culturally. Had it not been for the Irish, the Anglo-Saxons and even the Vikings (+ and - there), the franco-germans would have lost most Greek scholarship and never have developed as they did. I'm thinking, in the long term, of Theodore and Hadrian (Canterbury and schools), the northern Gospel Books and scriptoria, Alcuin of York, and the various evangelists/teachers we sent to Germany and Holland.

Some manuscripts and artefacts may show influence from Carolingian iconography (the Sandbach Crosses come to mind), but then the Vikings came in and we began integrating with their tradition, even as Alfred and his successors re-invigorated our scholarly traditions. We did really well again, until the Bastard came in on the next wave and set us back for a few hundred years. That's the whole point ... they only ever set us back.

I can't help suspecting that our ancestors chose to settle in Britain because it was the furthest away from that lot they could get-- after their Pontic experiences!

But the frankos never give up; and we never learn to keep up our guard.

One of the first things to do... how about filling in that wretched tunnel?

4 November 2011 at 18:24  
Blogger non mouse said...

P.S: Your Grace - As ever, I'm in accord with the sentiments expressed by Messrs. Preacher and Jon today. I don't know why certain people have chosen your site for attention, but I'm sure we won't let them prevail!

4 November 2011 at 18:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

You’re quite barking non mouse but you do you best, we suppose...

4 November 2011 at 18:41  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

non mouse

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't protestantism first succeed on the continent - Germany or somewhere there abouts?

Martin Luther
Philipp Melanchthon
Thomas Müntzer
Menno Simons
Martin Bucer
Olaus & Laurentius Petri
Huldrych Zwingli
John Calvin
John Knox
Primož Trubar

Not too many English men among the ranks of the reformers.

4 November 2011 at 19:53  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Dodo,

Why do you omit the name of John Wycliffe? He preceded quite a few of those you identify, was English, and is not known as 'The Morning Star of the Reformation' for nothing.

4 November 2011 at 20:00  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Mr Cranmer

The 'Morning Star' certainly set the scene but that's why I chose my words carefully. There was also Jan Hus. However, it took the Germanic temperament to drive the reformation forward. True?

4 November 2011 at 20:29  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Preacher said ...

"I really can't understand why the main thrust of Dr Cranmer,s Blog for today is being missed"

A few have misunderstood it to mean that the threat to British democracy lies in an ancient Roman Catholic design to rule Europe through a German and French alliance.

Me, I agree the German's are attempting to promote their own economic interests in Europe as are France. They are doing this through undemocratic and underhanded methods. But a religious conspiracy? Nah!

4 November 2011 at 20:36  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

A pre-Sabbath post I ticked away at while waiting in the car for one of my kids:

Avi’s Wild and Crazy Futuristic Speculation

About a decade ago, when Israel’s left still had a heartbeat, there were pockets of excitement over the floated possibility of Israel joining the EU. Thank G-d (certainly not the judgement of the average secular Israeli) cooler heads prevailed. A give-away of what a deadly deal that would be, was the fact that Palestinian Muslims got all excited about the notion.

The thinking behind their excitement was that once Israel became a EU member, the EU would quickly move to accept a “Palestinian” state which then the EU would merge with Israel and the millions of fake “Palestinian” refugees could demographically and through force flood and put an end to the Jewish state. The ensuing massacres of Jews would result in the US and Europe accepting whoever survived as refugees, making “Palestine” judenrein.

The dreamers dreamed on. With Turkey already presumably in the EU, “Palestine” would quickly declare itself an Islamic republic, perhaps joining its Arab brothers in Syria, and together with Turkey, would exercise a significant pull. Some European dreamers proceeded on that trajectory, imagining a union with the Mediterranean Islamic nations, already planned by the Venice “Eurabia” agreements. In a fanfare of repairing “historic injustice,” Muslims—Arabs and Turks---would then move to reclaim former Islamic territories, such as the Iberian peninsula (Al Andalus), southern parts of Italy and the Balkans. By then, depending on how things were going, the Muslim-dominated “Europe” would either separate as a caliphate, or with sufficient numbers and through endless terrorism, would incorporate Europe into the same caliphate. The weak, grovelling response by the West to 9/11, and the Spanish and London bombings energized these fantasies.

But, what if Israel refused to join the EU, some worried. Well, then, backing a declaration of Palestinian statehood, followed with a brotherly invitation by the EU, would be the alternate, and perhaps the more practical path. European armies, which would include Turkey’s by then, would move to “protect” the new “Euro-Palestinians” and destroy Israel, making it a “state for all peoples,” i.e., for the deluge of Muslims and the few remaining leftist Jewish sell-outs. Sounds kind of nuts, all of this, but all these ideas have been discussed and, bear in mind, that the European elites were and still are open to the idea of a strong Islamic presence in Europe under the currently stalled-but-not-dead “Mediterranean” union plans. It would never happen, some will say. Right-o. But now that Europe’s public has come to accept government by unelected bureaucrats, France and Germany’s leadership, floods of unassimilated Muslims and cavalier rejections of referenda, what once seemed like an outlandish fantasy or conspiracy theorists’ nonsense, such novel “solutions to the Jewish problem” and “Muslim integration” are actually quite practicable.

But remember, folks, I’m just speculating wildly. Then again, as I've said before, Canada beckons. Ta-dah.

4 November 2011 at 21:37  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


You've been reading too many of the weasel's posts!

Why are Israel in the European Song Contest. Another plot?

4 November 2011 at 22:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi. Your saying Turkey isn’t in the EU. The west of England town the Inspector lives in is heaving with Turks. Very swarthy and love their mobiles...

4 November 2011 at 22:54  
Blogger len said...

Forty years ago, Pope John XXIII predicted that the new Europe would become "the greatest Catholic superstate the world has ever known" and "the greatest single human force ever seen by man."
Pope John XXIII urged Roman Catholics to be "in the front ranks" of the effort to unify Europe. Many of the "founding fathers" of the new Europe were devout Catholics, as are many of its leading proponents today. Even the press has described \the idea of a united Europe as essentially a Catholic concept\ (The Financial Times, May 22, 1995). However, it has been Pope John Paul II who has promoted this key Vatican agenda for a quarter of a century. He has given nearly 700 speeches concerning Europe, and repeatedly urged Europeans to "discover their roots" as they build their "common European house." Those roots go back to the alliance between the Catholic Church and the 'Holy' Roman Empire that ruled Europe for more than a thousand years.

4 November 2011 at 23:09  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len. The Inspector thanks you for the history lesson. Catholics are of course Christians. It seems that only odd ball born agains like you have a problem with them...

4 November 2011 at 23:38  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

For goodness sake, you'resurely not on another hypomanic trip around those websites again?

You really should study the 1000 year history of the Holy Roman Empire before swallowing this nonsense.

Now off to bed and do get some sleep, there's a good boy.

5 November 2011 at 01:19  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, ' You really should study the 1000 year history of the Holy Roman Empire'.

That`s your`e problem.I have!.

5 November 2011 at 08:43  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


No, I mean actually study it objectively, not rely on a potted, twisted version from one of those crazy sites you visit. Your understanding is just like your unreasoned and uncritical adoption of the early history of the Church and your 'end times' lunacy.

You have fallen under the influence of a perverted version of the Gospel. It infests your perception of reality - past, present and future.

There is no reasoning with you. Rather than argue with you, I will pray for you.

5 November 2011 at 10:57  
Blogger Oswin said...

An excellent piece Your Grace. At last we see the iron fist shed of its now threadbare, velvet gauntlet.

OIG & Dodo:

non-mouse tells it the way it is/was Johnny come-latelies just cannot cope with with the truth of a pre-RCC Christian Church in Britain.

Dodo, you ''chose your words carefully'' when omitting any mention of Wycliffe and lollardy? Well, you would do that, wouldn't you!

5 November 2011 at 16:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Oswin The Inspector has never had much problem with non mouse’s grasp of history. But she does tend to let herself down with the likes of...

I can't help suspecting that our ancestors chose to settle in Britain because it was the furthest away from that lot they could get-- after their Pontic experiences!
One of the first things to do... how about filling in that wretched tunnel?

Best if non mouse kept out of socio-economic-political and just devotes herself to the Scottish sectarian divisions she so clearly lives and breathes...

Incidentally, the Inspector visited the Arran islands this year. On the larger of them is the remains of a small Christian monastery. In the graveyard, a tombstone of a Roman from seventeen hundred years ago. He had travelled there to study in that Christian monastery; the Irish of course had an international reputation for learning.

5 November 2011 at 17:20  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Yes, we now know your opinion.

Jesus Christ, between the ages of 12 and 30, visited these Islands with Joseph of Arimathea and came Glastonbury. Then Joseph returned after His Resurrection and Ascension and built a church. The first Christian Church, not Roman but Jewish-Celtic in origin.

All fantasy and not an ounce of reliable evidence.

5 November 2011 at 19:33  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


St Ninian was the first Christian evangelist to Scotland and was a Roman Catholic.

5 November 2011 at 19:38  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo: no, St.Ninian was not the first Christian missionary to Scotland, that was almost certainly down to those of the Irish, Celtic Church, who were not ROMAN Catholics.

As for your accusation of ''fantasy'' ... I repeat: if so, then they are, in part, the 'fantasies' of your own Church too.

Further, how do you presume to know the time-scale of my beliefs?

If anything, I'd place Jesus here as an infant; only occasionally returning home. One such time being: when Jesus was left behind in the Temple, aged about twelve.

6 November 2011 at 01:57  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


St Ninian came from Ireland to Whithorn - across the Irish Sea. He was Irish but it is accepted he studied in Rome.

There is no evidence that Jesus visited Britain and no evidence at all supporting the idea there was a church here in the 1st century. Just medieval myths and legends. Nowadays it's all become linked with fringe ideas of lost tribes of Israel coming to Britain from Germany.

You cite the evidence!

Apart from an (alleged) letter to Pope Gregory from Augustine making poetic references to early Christianity and a church somewhere, what is there?

Of course Christianity was in Britain before the 6th century. We know this. It was here in the 3rd century and survived in the West and was Celtic in discipline and orientation.

6 November 2011 at 02:33  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace

A timely message from China to the EU - the world doesn't owe you a living, get out and work.

It astounded your communicant that Sarkozy could ring Wen Jiabao and try to touch China for a trillion or so. Doesn't Sarko know that an Anglo-French expeditionary force defeated and destroyed imperial China, looted the Forbidden City in Peking and divided the country up in to concessions? Amongst the concession holders was Imperial Japan who went on to greater achievement with the Rape of Nanking.

The Chinese have long memories and are very proud. It may now be 110 years since the Boxer Rebellion that followed the Sack of Peking, but the Chinese haven't finished yet. Any EU leader who thinks that China, or India for that matter, is prepared to under-write European living standards is either badly informed and advised, or quite deluded.

On another topic, Dave is not having a good war in the Eurozone crisis. Some British leaders, Churchill and Thatcher to name the best, looked as though they had the measure of events even in the darkest hour. WSC and MHT convinced the electorate that their lives before their respective crises were spent in preparation for the challenge. Dave gives the impression that he would rather be in Amalfi or Gstaad.

6 November 2011 at 10:18  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Avi, You've been reading too many of the weasel's posts! Why are Israel in the European Song Contest. Another plot? Dodo

I don't know who "weasel" is and what his/her plots are. There is, however, a functioning EU-Israel Association Agreement formed in 2000, under which trade betwen Israel and the EU is conducted and various European and Israeli leaders have discussed incorporating Israel into the EU. The rest of the speculative scenario I drew may be very unlikely but not impossible; it merely follows a worst-case, bad-luck trajectory.

Anyhow, both the left in Israel and the EU saw this Agreement and trade activity as a means to pressure Israel to comply politicall with EU's pro-Arab stance. Over 30% of Israeli exports go to Europe, although there is a trade deficit, with Israel importing more from Europe. However, pressure from the "oil producers" and the impatience of the hostile left, exposed and telegraphed the bad intentions better than any warnings from commentators. Upsurge in antisemitism, expressed by the boycott movements and last year's European Court of Justice's declaration that Israeli goods from the disputed territories are not eligible for customs exemptions under the association agreement, sounded the alarum bells. This premature attempt to create a crisis and to push Israel into compliance flopped and back-fired, thanks to Canada and the US, with its own free trade agreements, which don't impose pro-Arab conditions. Israel also moved quickly to form closer trade relations with China and India, and the Israel's unfavourable trade deficit with the EU and Israel is narrowing rather rapidly.

The speculative scenario and projections I drew are, as I said...speculative...Dodo. The plots and conspiracies I mentioned are ones that have been openly spun by others in Europe, the Muslim world and Israel. If you close your eyes and think of Europe's history, you will agree that most of its spectacular misfortunes in the past would have sounded nuts...until they happened. In any case, the probability risk on these speculations are receding with EU's rapidly decreasing ability to pressure Israel (or anyone) economically, with the spectacular natural gas finds in Israel which mean energy independence and significant revenues from exports, and the impending economic and political collapse of the already ailing Arab world. As for your massive migrations and Muslim enclaves (and Inspector's irritation over the cell phone crowd milling about in the west of England), bear in mind that what sustains your predicament are easily reversible welfare policies and faddy political and judicial decisions. No reason for anyone to hit the barricades yet....but for peace and opportunity, Canada still beckons.

6 November 2011 at 14:42  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Calm down!

Weatsop the Weasel is the Inspector's and my affectionate name for our friend len. His speculations about the 'end times' are a constant source of amusement. Your political analysis may be correct.

And the European Song Contest?

6 November 2011 at 15:16  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi. Tis true, Len is both mine and Dodo’s beloved brother in Christ. We’ve given the scallywag the affectionate nickname weasel, because he’s our rather backward brother, and needs encouragement to overcome his ‘Jesus belongs just to me, and you can’t have him’ attitude.

6 November 2011 at 15:23  
Blogger len said...


Dodo and the Inspector (so called) think by making up derogatory names for people they will some how undermine that persons credibility.It is a tactic used by children to bully others they perceive as being different from themselves.(They haven`t caught on yet that this just makes me more determined but don`t tell the that!.)

Dodo finds the Bible Prophesies I put on this blog amusing because he doesn`t believe in the bible but follows whatever the Pope tells him is the truth.(because he is 'infallible 'the Pope that is not Dodo)

All the best.

6 November 2011 at 15:27  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi. Don’t stroke him – have your finger off, so he will. By the way, you’re in his little book too, don’t you know. Being Jewish isn’t going to save you ! Only Jesus saves, and only Len at that...

6 November 2011 at 15:43  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


See weatsop you know not of what you talk. The Roman Catholic Church has no settled position on the 'end times' (apart from rejecting the 'rapture' and all that silly malarky) and I'm left to make up my own mind. Not that I'd ever be so vain as to proclaim it, on my own Spirit directed reading of scripture as universally valid and authoritive - like some weasels do.

6 November 2011 at 16:25  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Inspector, Dodo and Len,

Perhaps I'm still somewhat guilty of the "they all look alike to me" fallacy, but whatever the case is, I prefer not to wade into picking sides among Christians who choose play nice with me and mine. Not having to deal with pogroms, expulsions forced conversions or worse in this century is a really, realy big bonus. The valuable help and support from many Christians is, I think, literally G-d-sent, and I'm grateful. As to theological differences, such as the Christian understanding of our Torah (your "Old" Testament), views on Pharisees and their theological decendants (e.g., me and mine) and salvific beliefs, these to me are interesting differences in opinion which separate and define our traditions, and as long as they do not lead to agression, I have no issue with them.

6 November 2011 at 17:01  
Blogger Oswin said...

The Lord's Mustela will have that defunct duck yet. It is written!

(Dodo: for reference, see above) :o)

6 November 2011 at 17:22  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi. Wise words indeed. The Inspector himself is very accommodating of all beliefs and indeed, those who have no belief. However, even he has exceptions – Islam and Communism. Also, he’s not sure why he is so critical of Len; probably his damn arrogance has something to with it, plus his outright condemnation of RCs, and his school ground attitude of going around looking for a fight, with chip on shoulder. And that’s just to start with !

6 November 2011 at 17:29  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector has contacted the care home regarding Blofelds non show. He’s gone out in his Bath chair looking for Tiddles. Meanwhile, weatsop has been seen slinking around guiltily with blood on his mouth. He’s taking us out one by one, don’t you know...

6 November 2011 at 17:45  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

And I, Inspector, have sent emissaries to the lands of the Danes, to the countless Norse fiords and even as far as River Don in the lands of the Rus, and still no word of English Viking. King Hrothgar's hall and Valhalla reremain to be checked still. That'll be my job, as both surely have barrelfulls of pretty decent mead and beer at very good prices.

6 November 2011 at 20:14  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi. He did reappear briefly to break wind, as he is wont to do when making a point and criticising a contributor. But nothing last couple of days...

6 November 2011 at 20:34  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Have no worries English Viking appeared yesterday, muttered something about wishing the current Houses of Paliament could be blown up, and promptly disappeared again. He'll be back.

6 November 2011 at 20:36  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Let's be frank about it, the weasel is a little gobsh*te when it comes to Roman Catholicism.

(I'll now await the censure which is sure to follow.)

6 November 2011 at 20:40  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ah, thank you for the update, gents. Sounds like all's normal with English Viking. I got nothing new to report; nothing but good beer and mead at old Hrothgar's and Valhalla is closed to me (no Jews and Catholics alowed!) No word either from Vinland or any complaints from the touchy Skaraelings there. However, Viking's vigorous but rare appearances prop up my earlier hypothesis that he has been snatched up by a Valkyrie who swells at his bellicose talk. Perhaps she'll tire of him soon and will allow him more unstructured play-time with the boys on the blogs.

6 November 2011 at 21:17  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo He’ll be defeated by argument. At least in the eyes of this blogs correspondents. Can’t be many regulars who haven’t noticed his meanness of spirit and lack of brotherhood. Trying creature that he is...

6 November 2011 at 21:18  
Blogger bluedog said...

Gentlemen, was it my imagining or did a message in a bottle float past disclosing that the English Viking was headed to Miklagard, as so many of his bretheren did. There to enjoy the Apostolic Succession within an autocephalic Church.

6 November 2011 at 22:15  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...


Very doubtful. Can't imagine English Viking on a trip to Turkey or enjoying Orthodoxy; and just think what he'd say and do over the controversial issue of autocephaly! Another schism would follow for sure.

Be-headed rather that self-headed, me thinks.

6 November 2011 at 22:54  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Bluedog, Miklagard? Impressive. Not many know one of the ancient names of the Hebrew-named Konshtantinyah or Slavic-named Tsarigrad. Viking will need to first clear the place of its current squatters, though.

6 November 2011 at 22:58  
Blogger len said...

Perhaps Viking is honing his axe and looking for some orange sauce and a recipe for cooking ducks?.

Probably leave a fowl taste in the mouth though,( much like his religion.)

7 November 2011 at 07:42  
Blogger bluedog said...

Yes Mr Avi, Mr Viking will have his work cut out. Somehow the current squatters never came close to this:

But once again it's the largest city in Europe, hard to dislodge them now. There were many chances, the last in 1922 when Britain and France let Greece down; has a familiar ring to it, really.

7 November 2011 at 09:46  
Blogger Muggins said...

It may be the same project, but it looks like they are inheriting a sinking ship (to mix my metaphors - hey it's Monday morning!)

Isn't this simply going to be an exercise in Northern Europe giving money to Southern Europe? Or we'll all go bust. Or both :)

We need good, brave leaders now

7 November 2011 at 12:01  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

OoIG said 'bit miss marplish'@6 November 2011 17:45

"The Inspector has contacted the care home regarding Blofelds non show. He’s gone out in his Bath chair looking for Tiddles. Meanwhile, weatsop has been seen slinking around guiltily with blood on his mouth. He’s taking us out one by one, don’t you know..."

Dear fellow, Ernst is fine,(not Len in the conservatory with the lead piping you imply *Chuckles*) just a tad cheesed off with the current political situation which appears to worsen daily!



Len said, making Ernst's mouth droooool.

"Perhaps Viking is honing his axe and looking for some orange sauce and a recipe for cooking ducks?.

Probably leave a fowl taste in the mouth though,( much like his religion.)" However the orange sauce makes the oily meat most palatable and Ernst's favourite christmas dish...YUMMY!
Mind you, that catechism the lad has been forcefed on does make the meat a bit hard to chew and digest, hence the 'tenderising' process used by us both *Chortles madly*

7 November 2011 at 12:13  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Thanks, Bluedog, what an incredible digital model! I'm always impressed and encouraged by folks who doggedly and meticulously pursue such goals. The amateur (in the classical sense of the word) is still the driving force behind science. I would comment that as with most large and dense cities in the ancient world, fire-resistant roofs would have been mandated by the city authorities. Traditional Middle Eastern and Anatolian flat roofs of clay may have been used, but I wonder if there are any remains of terracotta Roman-style roof tiles, such as the ones still made and used in the Mediterranean.

An important announcement: I have found English Viking. No, it wasn't easy. He is in Germany, right under our very noses, appearing on their state tv as an Ian Anderson impersonator. A good job he does too, I must say. Nevertheless, he needs our help, our caring intervention; friends don't let friends sing on German state television, especially not with the audience of savage Valkyries apparent at the very end of the clip:

The urgency for a rescue mission should now be obvious to everyone.

7 November 2011 at 12:30  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Mr Ernst,

Glad to see you back again. Allow me to welcome you back from your hiaitus with a culinary suggestion which you might want to try first in a small aluminum roasting pan to see whether your delicate English palate can bear it.

Saurkraut...preferably brine, rather than vinegar-based... generously seasoned with paprika, along with a handful of peppercorns and a single small bayleaf as a bed for the duck while it's slowly roasting makes, I think, even a better grease cutter than orange sauce. I like home made Peking sauce (bitter and sour Sevilles are my favourite), but I'm not always in the mood for sweetness with my fowl and often opt for the salty and lightly fermented flavour. In a miraculous process of chemical symbiosis, the pickled cabbage absorbs and cuts the richness of the yummy fat and in turn cuts its sourness. Such touching reciprocity between ingredients illustrates the benefits of diversity better than the polyannish pabulum we are frequently fed with. Very common Southern Eastern European recipe for duck, goose and even turkey. Works well also with chicken, especially capon. The downside is that the irresistably tasty, schmalz-besotted saurkraut becomes a dangerous delivery system, a veritable Trojan horse, for high levels of salt, saturated fats and uncountable calories.

7 November 2011 at 13:06  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Avi Barzel said @ 7 November 2011 13:06...

Dear boy, your recipes are always a delight but in this case, Ernst must pass it by..Saurkraut?

Ernst takes his line from a famous british culinary show with a play on words..Can't Kraut, Won't Kraut.

Refer the peking sauce lad, such as taking a pancake, place some shredded Dodo..oops duck, a bit of spring onion, a little cucumber and a dollop of plum sauce on to it, then roll it up – There's lovely, my boy.


Always a delight to read your posts, my lad.

7 November 2011 at 13:30  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Mr Ernst,

My apologies for suggesting the now-unmentionable vegetable ingredient which, I belatedly realise, may be as culturally or politically repulsive to you as shellfish or pork hocks would be to me. No more on this subject from me, and never will the dreaded s-k word (may it be erased from memory) appear on this blog again!

Your recipe describes a variation on what we call here the California Wrap. I presume this is a cold dish. The spring onions or chives are customary, but the addition of the cucumber is intriguing, as I speculate a Korean influence. But most surprising is the helpful pancake suggestion. One of the reasons I don't often make wraps (which would make a great lunch options for my picky offspring) is that kosher varieties of the wraps are not always readily available. I imagine an unsweetened, thin crepe-like pancake would be best.

7 November 2011 at 13:52  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Culinary tip lads. Duck best at 90 minutes on 160 C fan blown. Ducky taste minimalised.

7 November 2011 at 19:44  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Duck off.

7 November 2011 at 22:15  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...


8 November 2011 at 00:18  
Blogger Μιχάλης Καματερός said...

@The Gray Monk

Indeed, cooking took place for the Drachma-to-Euro shift! But actually, the scheme was not organised by the greek government of the day. "Hell's Kitchen" was in Berlin, not in Athens! The European Empire was well aware of the fragility of the Greek Economy. Yet, Greece was needed inside the Eurozone, in order to act as a steady market for German products, anything from needles to submarines... Currently German corporations are buying greek assets and wealth-producing public facilities, like Telecommunications (OTE), Postoffice (TT), etc

12 November 2011 at 17:09  
Blogger Μιχάλης Καματερός said...

What the Germans had targeted at in the Greek Economy, back in the late 90's, were factors like Competitiveness, and Market Selectivity. Currently, with the Greek Economy fairly ruined, they hope for a good slice of the Public pie, which is practically given away...

12 November 2011 at 17:16  

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