Tuesday, November 08, 2011

"We will never know how many people entered the country"


It beggars belief that a party dedicated to lowering immigration and tightening control of the nation's borders could preside over such a fiasco. It transpires that someone somewhere gave a green light for UK Border Agency staff not to carry out full checks on the passports of hundreds of thousands of people seeking entry into the UK. Home Secretary Theresa May said it wasn't her; Immigration Minister Damian Green said it wasn't him.

So it must either have been rogue Border Agency staff who assume the authority to waive the rules and wave through immigrants when the queues get a bit too long, or the Home Secretary is being economical with the actualité. Either way, she told the House of Commons yesterday: "As a result of these unauthorised actions, we will never know how many people entered the country who should have been prevented from doing so."

Right.

So 100,000s of potential terrorists, murderers, thieves and paedophiles saunter into the UK under a 'relaxed' border checking system, and it's not the fault of anyone in the Home Office? Call His Grace naive, but it does seem rather unlikely that Border Agency staff - however senior - would cease passport checks without at least informing/consulting the relevant minister. We are, after all, talking about national security on the approach to the Olympics and the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. If some 'pilot scheme' for fewer checks was extended without authorisation, the question which must be asked is why there was a 'pilot scheme' to do this in the first place. Immigration queues may be an inconvenience for both immigration staff and the would-be immigrant, but you don't let people effortlessly wander in just to mitigate the wait.

The reality is that the UK lost control of its borders some years ago. We may not be part of the EU's 'borderless' Schengen Agreement, but all UK ports of entry equate the UK with the EU: if you have an EU passport, you're effectively British. No British government of whatever political hue is able to reduce immigration from EU member states, so if someone is illegally and fraudulently living in Italy or France, it's a short ride and a small step to Britain's welfare heaven.

Yesterday, Sir Andrew Green's e-petition urging a reduction in immigration hit the 100,000 mark. Whether or not it is granted parliamentary time is irrelevant: until we are once again a sovereign nation governed by patriots, we will continue to sink under waves of immigrants who will each bring their customs and cultures to enhance our traditions and benefit the national psyche.

87 Comments:

Blogger niconoclast said...

if UK phased out Welfare State we would have no such problem.Lets approach this one from the right end for once.

8 November 2011 at 10:00  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

Over the past few years when returning to Britain through Heathrow or Gatwick, I cannot recall having my passport examined by someone who appears to be ethnic British.
One does worry at times about the loyalties of those performing the checks; many countries insist that those performing such duties must not only have been born in the country, but born of parents who were born in the country. Regardless of what the bosses order, you only need one person inspecting passports, whose loyalty lies elsewhere, to allow in unknown numbers of undesirables. This I find more frightening than the present headline problem, particularly as there has already been at least two cases of corrupt officials wrongly issuing visas.

8 November 2011 at 10:01  
Blogger graham wood said...

Slightly amended confession by Mrs May as follows:

"As a result of these unauthorised actions, I will never know how many people entered the country who I should have been prevented from doing so."

If she knew she was responsible and should be sacked. If she did not know what decisions were bening taken 'unilaterally' by her own officials, she should have known, and should still be sacked.

But it is all rather academic for as you say Cranmer, we lost control of our borders years ago when regime change took place in the UK via our EU membership.

8 November 2011 at 10:26  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Yes that right Niconoclast. The answer is to impoverish our own citizens. Nice one. No doubt you would then complain about the number of beggars on the streets.

It's funny how those who advocate public sector cuts are never happy with the inevitable results. It seems Mrs "I'm not making this up oh yes you are" May, who time and again is proved a liar and dissembler, was trying to keep a lid on this, presumably to try to preserve the " more for less" illusion.

8 November 2011 at 10:29  
Blogger graham wood said...

Typos! My last post should read:

"As a result of these unauthorised actions, I will never know how many people entered the country who I should have prevented from doing so."

8 November 2011 at 10:29  
Blogger niconoclast said...

Re Whitespace (aptly monikred)the roads and streets would be privatised and the owners would decide if beggars could inhabit them.Most would find a job as it would be easy to employ people without all the Socialist Red tape and regulation and taxes etc.(Presupposing Captalist Jerusalem ushered in of course.)

8 November 2011 at 10:40  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Nicoboclst,

I see. You're a comedian. I hadn't realised

8 November 2011 at 10:59  
Blogger Hereward said...

I would not be surprised if terrorist organisations have infiltrated their sympathisers into the ranks of the UK Border Agency to further their nefarious objectives.

Neither do I think it inconceivable that laxity has arisen thanks to political nods and winks to further cultural reshaping driven by misplaced pan-European multicultural idealism.

It could of course be nothing more sinister than a monumental cock-up.

Whatever the truth, the UK Borderless Agency would be a better name for this shambolic outfit.

8 November 2011 at 11:49  
Blogger Jon said...

I don't really understand why this has happened.

I travelled to the US last week, and upon arrival, we waited patiently for nearly an hour to get through the gruelling, humourless process of passing into the US. But that's why I was there - it wasn't like I was going to get back on a plane because of the queue! The people inspecting our passports were of all hues and ethnic origins, but they all did their jobs seriously and thoroughly as far as I could see.

Why can't people just do their jobs properly? It appears that the border staff have been "captured" by the queue. They should remember their first duty is to protect the citizens already here. If that's not tattooed on their eyelids - then put a bloody big sign up in the room explaining it with flashing neon lights and play the national anthem every five minutes until they get it!

8 November 2011 at 12:03  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

Although I certainly agree that people should do their jobs (I mean, look what happened when the original Cranmer - ordained in the church of Rome, after all - failed to do his), I'm bound to ask, are there really "100,000s of potential terrorists, murderers, thieves and paedophiles" abroad in your demi-paradise?

8 November 2011 at 12:10  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

Ernst is mystified by the situation as he came back to UK via Gatwick from Spain and was cordially invited to join a long queue that brought back memories of the rations book lines of 60 years ago.

The only thing Ernst noticed was that non EU citizens were allowed to go through a different faster queue (were they checked?) elsewhere.

Communicants complain about lying politicians but it is de rigeur for the role. Look at Sarkozy and Obama blubbing on about Netanyahu lying and that they must deal with him daily.

The greatest major symptom politicians appear to suffer from is delusion, that they are individually honest whereas others elsewhere are not?

Corrigan1 snided
"Although I certainly agree that people should do their jobs (I mean, look what happened when the original Cranmer - ordained in the church of Rome, after all - failed to do his)," Be quiet half wit, If you get His Grace wondering again that his mission has come to an end via this blog, Ernst will come for you with full verbal fury!
The true case is that you and others are so persuaded by Rome's mischief in trying to gain supremacy over others by economy and reserve, show His Grace that his mission is far from complete and is really needed to go up a notch.

It appears that some communicants can see Romanism or Gay issues where there is none in whatever His Grace starts a thread about.

Ernst S Blofeld

ps Corrigan1

Ernst takes it then, with your charge against the original Cranmer and using your flawed logic, that the disciples and others were wrong to follow Christ rather than stay in Judaism (How is Romanism different?).

8 November 2011 at 13:11  
Blogger Gnostic said...

It beggars belief that a party dedicated to lowering immigration and tightening control of the nation's borders could preside over such a fiasco.

Comes as no surprise to me. When will people stop believing the Not the Tories hype and soundbite tripe? They are no better than the parasites they replaced.

8 November 2011 at 13:21  
Blogger AncientBriton said...

It should be no surprise that the Government's slash and burn policy on public sector jobs has unfortunate consequences. The presumption that thousands of people were sitting around doing nothing rather than implementing Government policy appealed only to those receptive to government propaganda. How is it that nobody realised that queues resulting from front line reductions in Border agency staff are preferable to letting in undesirables?
Alan Johnson speaking in October 2010 made far more sense http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11583005

8 November 2011 at 13:37  
Blogger DP111 said...

Nations are defined by borders, language, and culture”.

And in the present situation they are being defined by religion (culture), race(ethnicity), and language last. This situation is an order of magnitude more explosive then anything in our history.

Even if we were not heading to a low grade civil war, a multicultural society based on the present mix, can never have internal cohesiveness. Each segment of society is in competition with others, and politicians by their very nature and requirement, will appease one segment or the other. This leads to ill will and bitterness. It also becomes impossible for a group or individuals to sacrifice their own interest for the common good -thus leading to an end of the nation.

Multicultural nation may just work as long as there is an abundance of goodies to go around. But once hard times come, as they must, it will lead to increasing competition, leading to low grade civil war, and finally war itself.

8 November 2011 at 13:56  
Blogger DP111 said...

Jon wrote: and play the national anthem every five minutes until they get it!

You mean "God save the Queen". That would be offensive to many immigration officials.

8 November 2011 at 14:01  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

until we are once again a sovereign nation governed by patriots, we will continue to sink under waves of immigrants

It is inevitable that patriotic/nationalist parties will come to power in Britain and Europe, as a reaction against the devastation wrought upon nation states by immigration and the European Union. If only they could gain power tomorrow because the longer the wait, the greater the deterioration and the more extreme the measures that will have to be taken to restore European countries as the homelands of their indigenous people.

8 November 2011 at 14:53  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Instead on making cuts in the military simply hand the running of the Border Agency over to the Ghurkas and staffed with ex-soldiers.

8 November 2011 at 15:12  
Blogger Gary said...

Curious thing... I just tried to sign Sir Andrew Green's e-petition and I received a message saying that I couldn't sign it because a signature has already been received from my email address. A computer glitch? Internet scam?

8 November 2011 at 15:35  
Blogger Oswin said...

We're a bloody island ffs, how difficult can it be??? Amateurs, fools, bunglers, liars and damned traitors!


Dreadnaught: I'd be more than happy to have ten thousand Ghurkas patrolling our borders, ports and hinterland.

8 November 2011 at 16:01  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

I suspect that there are a lot of Labour placemen in all of the public sector organisations, there to cause as much trouble as they can. Maybe this is one such instance.

8 November 2011 at 17:38  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

It's a disgrace indeed. Someone, somewhere must be held to account be it the senior civil servant or the Home Secretary.

As for the rest of the discussion about multi-culturalism inevitably leading to future civic unrest, we just need to reflect on the different ethnic groups that have come together to make up the United Kingdom. And let's be honest, religion and ethnic divisions throughout our history have been provoked by socio-economic circumstances and by those seeking to exploit and exaggerate them in their own interests.

Certainly we should be able to guard our borders and control who enters. But are we really being overrun by hoards of aliens from the EU?

8 November 2011 at 18:04  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Alas, the world and his dog has moved to the Inspector’s moderate sized town, and he seems quite happy there. And nobody in authority wants to know. Of course, little has been done about immigration in the past, now and or will be in the future.

In his observations, the Inspector has noticed that although Johnny Foreigner arrives with only the shirt on his back. He is staying somewhere, and it’s not on the streets at night. The Inspector speculates that our unwanted and illegal mouths to feed are being ‘sponsored’, no doubt by their own countrymen who arrived earlier. With the case of blacks and Asians, probably 10 to a house. The Turks like to go for a stroll and hang around the town centre. The Romanian gypsies have somehow managed to get hold of the Big Issue, to the detriment of our own home bred losers.

Now, if we can’t or are unwilling to throw these blighters out, we really must do something to house them all properly. It’s the British thing to do you know ! So, the Inspector has an idea – a tax on homes worth a million plus. Something modest, say thirty thousand a year. That way our well healed politicians current and past, as well as their supporters who live in such houses can actively help solve the problems they, er, created.

8 November 2011 at 18:13  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Lads. When half a billion worth of shopping mall went up near the Inspector, the site was guarded by ex Ghurkha rifles. He went round to see them one night when he was concerned high winds would bring down one of the three tower cranes employed. Very polite chaps and they were all built like low roofed colloquial brick outhouses. Did a good job in the two years they were stationed there, the only problem when a couple of drunks got up one of the cranes one midnight…

8 November 2011 at 18:21  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector

Not on homes worth £1m. Bit too low given the price of property nowadays. Set it at £2m+ and I'm with you. We should also expect all those with two properties to accomodate the homeless foreigners - including MP's.

8 November 2011 at 18:26  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Agreed Oswin - We have always welcomed people who are prepared to show the Crown loyalty and contribute to our Country. These guys (and all other ex-military service personnel for that matter) deserve our recognition and accommodation - what better example from us could there be than to entrust them with safeguarding our borders with the promise of a good pension at the end of their service.

8 November 2011 at 18:54  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr Bloe Be quiet half wit

Well really sir. A civil tongue in your head if you don’t mind on this esteemed site. Such intolerance towards Mr Corrigan, an erudite fellow whose only crime in your book is to adhere to our mother church. See what happens when you sup with the weasel, what !

8 November 2011 at 18:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo . We’ll stick with 1 million. Just watch how quick the authorities start sending our unwanted ‘visitors’ back...

8 November 2011 at 19:03  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Ernst
Oh dear, you're not seriously suggesting that a handful of Roman Catholics and a few homosexuals are responsible for our host's doubts about the ongoing benefits of this blog?

Just think how boring it would all be if we and the atheists left. You, for one, would have nothing to *chortle* and *guffaw* over. And poor old weasel would have to talk to himself.

8 November 2011 at 21:06  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Maturecheese. I think you've gone off. Labour placement causing trouble indeed. Utter paranoia.

8 November 2011 at 21:14  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

whitespacebug
I agree. We all know it's really Jesuits undermining the fabric of British society aided by Catholic politicians here and on the continent.

The 'game' is to eliminate the influence of the Established Church thereby leading to the abandonment of 'traditional' values, promote an influx of Islam immigrants, creating insecurity amongst the masses, and once people see the consequences and are threatened by it, they will return to Rome. A solid political and religious union follows.

Alternatively, people being human and prone to error, it was just a gigantic c*ck up!

8 November 2011 at 21:51  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. One would hope the Archbishop realises that his right wing blog transcends Christian differences, and is in fact, a most important and influential missal. Don’t think he’s considering himself as prospective parliamentary candidate do you ?

8 November 2011 at 22:10  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector, word has it he's been there, done that and has the tee-shirt.

8 November 2011 at 22:19  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Let's hope that's not the case then. He's rather good outside the tent pissing in, don't you think ?

8 November 2011 at 23:14  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector, now I understand his style and approach better, I agree with you.

From my perspective, one still has to keep an eye on some of his opinions about the Vatican and question these - politely and eruditly, of course.

8 November 2011 at 23:39  
Blogger Oswin said...

Millets do specialist tents for pissing into, called the Vat-e-can range. Helps to dampen the ardour of too sparky Jesuits!

9 November 2011 at 01:19  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

If His Grace has been there and bought the t-shirt, he simply must immigrate to Canada. I have no shame in egging you people of the Britanic persuasion on...even our Boss, the Capo di Tutti Capo of this blog...to set your sails for our distant shores. We have the same Queen and the same language, and even a fairly decent and conservative government. And we just recently passed you on the economy. It's not like a few thousand or, dare one hope, a few hundreds of thousands, of decent, smart and industrious, but unhappy and unwanted Brits will be missed by the enormity that's the EU. Boy, could we use a hand here too. Just sayin'.

9 November 2011 at 03:46  
Blogger Nowhere man said...

This was written by D W Nash in 1870, but I think he forsaw the future awaiting Britain today.I will leave it to you all to contemplate its warnings in this month of Rememberance.

For not upon those hills alone
The sport of England shall be doomed
As over the broad face creeps the shadow on the wall
Our creeds and ancient faiths the Altar
And the Crown before the tide will go down

Base Church will mock the mighty heroes of the past.
Written on our scrolls of time
Our religion will be held a jest
And Patriotism a crime

No hymns of praise shall be allowed in the village Schools as
only material interests rule.

The glory of a thousand years will end
In foul disgrace coarse demagogues replace
The statesmen that once ruled
Trade and Profit the sole device

The Army and Navy will be cast aside
As being costly things and
defence of the Realm an empty pride

The footsteps of millions of Invaders England will know
And home bred traitors will give Hand to Albions deadly Foes

Powerless and disarmed before the foreigner
The British knee will humbly bend
and yield the treasures
She lacked the wisdom to defend

9 November 2011 at 06:54  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Dodo. It's clear this is down to cuts. They are having to cut corners due to lack of staff. Inevitable but Ministers are trying to hide it and keep up the charade that front line services aren't affected.

9 November 2011 at 08:07  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

This is all theatre,they know very well what is going on,and just like the labour/marxist party it is part of thier agenda,indescriminate immigration,to breed us out of existence,and engender a collection of semi-literate easily managed animals who obey.

9 November 2011 at 08:31  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Woof woof.

9 November 2011 at 08:32  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Nowhere man. A most profound poem indeed, and it’s sentiments would have been unthinkable even in 1970. Then in came the traitor Edward Heath, and the liberal attitudes of the red brick universities. Our degenerate politicians must have observed, as John Lennon put it, “You think you’re so clever and classless and free, but you’re still f__king peasants as far as we can see”.

9 November 2011 at 10:12  
Blogger Roy said...

What astonishes me is the indifference with which much of the media and the authorities reacted to the revelation, about a year or two ago, that the policy of unrestricted immigration was deliberately introduced by the last government "to rub the noses of the right in diversity."

About 15 years ago Lady Porter, the Conservative leader of Westminster Council, was found guilty of gerrymandering because of her "Building Stable Communities" policy, later described as the "homes for votes" policy. She was landed with a surcharge of surcharge of £27m later raised to £42 million with interest and costs.

Why then has no action been taken against Tony Blair and the cabinet members of the Labour government over their immigration policy? What Lady Porter tried to do was utterly trivial in comparison with what the last government succeeded in doing. What is far worse is that to change the composition of the population without the consent of the people is a form of treachery.

Why has no legal action been taken against the members of the last government?

9 November 2011 at 10:30  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Roy @ 10.30, your points are well made.

Step one would be to bring Andrew Neather before a parliamentary committee tasked with investigating the matter. It is impossible to believe that Neather's disclosures were not discussed as policy at Cabinet level. The minister tabling the recommendations disclosed by Neather was almost certainly, Jack Straw.

Step two therefore is to obtain an exemption or waiver on the 30 year rule for release of Cabinet papers relating to this matter.

However as a betting man, this communicant would not put any money on the possibility of the relevant papers ever being discovered or released.

9 November 2011 at 11:05  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

What is far worse is that to change the composition of the population without the consent of the people is a form of treachery.

Well put, Mr Roy. The Geneva Conventions and international laws seem to have a lot to say about transfer of populations, occupation and colonialism, but with respect to immigration...which in some ways resembles both slavery and colonialism...we are not even allowed to question our governments' secretive policy decisions about who gets to come into our communities, how many and where at the pain of being shunned as dangerous bigots to be watched.

9 November 2011 at 13:12  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo said 8 November 2011 21:06

"Ernst
Oh dear, you're not seriously suggesting that a handful of Roman Catholics and a few homosexuals are responsible for our host's doubts about the ongoing benefits of this blog?

Just think how boring it would all be if we and the atheists left. You, for one, would have nothing to *chortle* and *guffaw* over. And poor old weasel would have to talk to himself."

Dear Dickie, Ernst is merely suggesting that if His Grace started a thread about Mars bars that you, OoIG and others would imply it was a snide at Rome...Mars? was'nt that a Roman God (In the mythic genealogy and founding myths of Rome, Mars was the father of Romulus and Remus with Rhea Silvia. His love affair with Venus symbolically reconciled the two different traditions of Rome's founding; Venus was the divine mother of the hero Aeneas, celebrated as the Trojan refugee who "founded" ROME several generations before Romulus laid out the city walls.

The importance of Mars in establishing religious and cultural identity within the ROMAN EMPIRE is indicated by the vast number of inscriptions identifying him with a local deity, particularly in the Western provinces.) Cranny is therefore having a pop at us RC's. Simples!

*chortles* and *guffaws wildly*

Ernst '*stay* but be *polite* RC's or are they ** mutually exclusive?' Blofeld

ps

Ernst is neither RC or Anglican but is always polite/respectful to AC..It's how he was brought up and it is taught in the Holy Bible!

9 November 2011 at 15:06  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr Bloe whined if His Grace started a thread about Mars bars that you, OoIG and others would imply it was a snide at Rome

Hardly, old chap. The Inspector is up for debate like the next man. Don’t be surprised though if you throw shit at us RCs, it comes back at twice the speed.

Not sure what you’re getting at with the Roman god Mars. He went out the window along with every other false god when Christianity won the day.

Must say the Inspector has noticed you’ve become rather grumpy as of late. Ask Matron if they’ve changed your pills... {INSPECTOR GUFFAWS THEN CREASES}

9 November 2011 at 15:49  
Blogger Oswin said...

I've waited for someone to say it; but no, it seems I'm obliged to do so myself: perhaps they're all hiding out in 'Mornington Crescent'!

''I'm sorry I haven't a clue'' ... no? Oh well...

9 November 2011 at 15:51  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

In reading the entertaining exchanges above, I'm reminded, for some reason, of the Orange and Green divide in old Ontario and other parts of Canada. I live near one of the fault lines of the forgotten struggle which can be identified by place names and even architecture. There's our nearby towns of Orangeville and St Mary's, for example, and wonderful examples of ageing and cumbling dichromatic (red and buff) residential and institutional brickwork, with red dominating for the Protestants and over the ridge to the west of us, buff for the Catholics. No one but a few wonks remembers any of that stuff, it's not even mentioned in the schoolbooks anymore. We're all tolerant, secular, multicultural Canadians now, whatever that means. The question is, did the forgotten Orange-Green squabbles invigorate and prolong the life of the parties, or weaken them and lead to their decline? Inquiring minds want to know.

9 November 2011 at 16:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo old chum. Do enlighten Avi about the ‘forgotten’ Orange/Green divide in Glasgow !

9 November 2011 at 16:51  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

I know of it, Inspector not to mention the old Irish ditty about "my father he was Orange, my mother she was Green" and something about, "o the troubles I have seen," one we used to hear on St Patrick's Day years ago. But here, no one remembers such things...we've "moved on," you see, and I can't tell if it's good or bad. Somehow, I think remembering is always better...but then, too much of it can be a pain too. Argh.

9 November 2011 at 17:00  
Blogger Oswin said...

Avi: it's all about unspeakable celts being beastly to each other; don't bother yourself, they'll get over it in a few centuries. Best not to get involved.

9 November 2011 at 17:14  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Fair point, Oswin, and confined to His Grace's blog, the beastliness won't take out anyone's eye and the creativity can be highly entertaining. Your warning is duly noted, though; when the dishes begin to fly to and fro, I'll duck out of the way under the trestle table...a strategy that seems to be inscribed in my DNA, for some reason.

9 November 2011 at 17:25  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Oswin is right Avi, best drop the subject, otherwise that tartaned horror non mouse will be on the scene holding Mary, Queen of Scots head by the hair, and baying for Catholic blood...

9 November 2011 at 17:35  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

But I like tartans! What's a few bloodspots here and there? Salt or baking soda and a cold water rinse will help. In one of those unlikely and absurd turns of life, I'm loosely associated through marriage to Andersons and Camerons. The kids have a better claim than I, of course. Closer to Andersons, but from an aesthetic perspective I do prefer the interplay between the dark greens and blues, the red and yellow pin lines in the military Highlanders' Cameron version....ach yey, "when I die, burry me low, near that place where the bonnie Tweed flows," or something to that effect. I disgress; time to drive again, ta-dah all!

9 November 2011 at 18:03  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Ernsty
Your post about Mars actually resembled the nonsensical comments weatsop compulsively makes about the early church being a cover for Babylonian paganism!

Bad example, dear sir, as we Catholics abandoned such false gods from day and have remained true to Christ's teachings. (*chortle ... *chuckle*)

Avi
There'a a big difference between remembering one's traditions and living in the past.

Growing up in Belfast before the 'troubles' of the 1970's I used to enjoy both Orange and Green Marches, as did others. It's the same with Guy Fawkes and bonfire night The problem arises when some seek to reopen old wounds or refuse to let go of past prejudices and bitterness.

Triumphantalism and disrespect for the past of other groups is not the same as respectful acknowledgement of the past and differences.

Similarly, any unjust discrimination along religious lines must be rooted out. In Northern Ireland in the 1970's employment, housing and the basic right to vote were to a large extent determined by one's religion. Today I could never marry a future Queen (no DanJO NOT that sort of queen!)nor could my children.

Sectarianism, discrimination and bigotry is bad.

9 November 2011 at 18:44  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Today I could never marry a future Queen (no DanJO NOT that sort of queen!)nor could my children."

You should never say never, Dodo. Afterall, check out what happened to this fella. You could be playing the pink oboe this time next year if it also happened to you. I suppose it'd be wrong to wish it would just out of amusement.

9 November 2011 at 18:53  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Thanks for that DanJ0, the Inspector has amended his ‘living will’ with new clause...

“If after illness, the aforementioned wakes up and offers ‘head’ to male hospital staff, he is to be put back under and the organ removal team summonsed. Any remains after that to be burnt. Absolutely NO ONE must ever know”

Be seeing you...

9 November 2011 at 19:39  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

DanJ0
Wonder if something like this has happened to English Viking.

Of course, you're right, one never knows. Pray God I never have a stroke but if I do who knows what strange development might occur. I could become a protestant or anything! Or worse, join weatsop as a 'born againer'

Ps
How does one post links in this way? Easy instuctions please.

9 November 2011 at 21:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo . The Inspector understands that weatsop is not able to blog at the moment as he has moved home. He now resides inside Mr Bloe’s compost heap where he will be warm in the winter. He hopes to survive by eating food left out for Tiddles...

DanJ0. The Inspector appreciates you may not wish to help Dodo, so inform the Inspector instead as he would like to know...

9 November 2011 at 22:50  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Inspector, I'm sure DanJ0 will do all he can to assist me as we're good buddies really.

So far as weatsop having relocated, I don't think Ernsty will have sufficient patience to cope long term. He's been showing distinct signs of grumpiness of late. It's likely weatsop will attempt to convert Tiddles too and there could well be a nasty little scrap ahead between them.

9 November 2011 at 23:38  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10 November 2011 at 00:33  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Avi

What is said on here is tame compared to the religious hatred in some parts of these fair Isles. This becomes heightened at certain times of the year and also during certain football (soccer) matches.

I find it interesting how our faith convictions result in heated debates. Still if one cannot be passionate about foundational beliefs and defend it, what can one be passionate about?

Which leads me on nicely to the other matter you raised. I don't know how much a 'lady of the night' costs in Canada but I'd advise you to spend the money on a short holiday. Hedonistic sex with a stranger may give you a thrill but it is unlikely to help long term and, who knows, could trigger a desire best not awakened.

10 November 2011 at 01:15  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Ps

Avi I was more troubled by the image of the hairdryer and what he might have in mind for it!

10 November 2011 at 01:18  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

PPs

As your Chancellor designate I also have to advise this would undermine your future as King Averam I of this Realm. The British media love a good sex scandal.

10 November 2011 at 01:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "How does one post links in this way? Easy instuctions please."

Type "<" and "a href=", followed by the http URL, followed by ">", followed by the word(s) you want, followed by "<" and "/a>". I've split the tags of course so they're not acted upon here.

10 November 2011 at 05:33  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

The Way of the Dodo said

"Ernsty

Your post about Mars actually resembled the nonsensical comments weatsop compulsively makes about the early church being a cover for Babylonian paganism!"

Dear chirpy little dickie, Ernst was showing that even a reference of any sort, no matter how tenuous, is scoured for by your good? selves, looking for implied RC bigotry, where none is involved.

Bad example, dear sir, as we Catholics abandoned such false gods from day (From which one or are we talking 657619 days (being the present 10/11/2011!)and have remained true to Christ's teachings. (*chortle ... *chuckle*) Which Christ is this you speak of, lad.. The one who cannot save fully those He saves and He needs a likkle help from Dodo and others so persuaded, to top up the salvation tank? Why, He cannot even stop them having to going along the purgatory trail, without assistance from Rome and it's unbiblical sacraments!
* Bends over double to stop guffawing but it ain't working*

Ernst

Ps

Avi

You really are not grasping that there is Roman Catholicism and there are Non Roman Catholics (Ernst is merely non roman catholic) and this orange or green thing is not something Ernst can be accused of, merely that Romanism is deluded by it's own grand claims about itself.

His Grace criticises CofE as well as Rome for their failings, yet this is not good enough for RC's here..Rome MUST be free from all charges applied against it by anyone other than RC's. It is always the naughty laity and not the Hierarchy itself that is at fault and in sin.

Think you will find Romanists love being viewed as martyrs, hence their remarks about others, in the blessed hope of receiving a correction of what they state. Offence is duly taken and posted against all the nasty bigots you find that reside here (sensitive souls!). Ernst is convinced that it gives them something to get up in the morning for, other than Matins!

10 November 2011 at 13:19  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

ps

Luke 23:40-43

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

How far up Purgatory Trail do you reckon the Thief is by now, as he has no mother church to intervene for him, buy indulgences, say masses, light candles or was this just a one-off by Christ?
Is anybody praying for him still, was he ever being prayed for by anybody, to help him along that trail.
Where is he now?

QUESTION: Did Jesus, his Apostles, or disciples sell indulgences, or offer them in exchange for designated good works?
Just one incontrovertible proof would be fine.

Ernst

10 November 2011 at 13:38  
Blogger Oswin said...

Ernst @ 13:19 comments to Avi et al:

Just so, it is as you say; wise words indeed.

10 November 2011 at 13:59  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Ernsty

Absolute guff, dear boy. No evidence, just assertion.

I notice you moved from the general accusation that Catholics (and homosexuals) misuse this site to promote their interests onto a promotion of your own 'truth' and an attack on the theology of Roman Catholicism. Now who's being opportunistic?

Naughty and crafty, Ernsty.

10 November 2011 at 16:33  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo squalled (as the Old Norse were prone to say)

"The Way of the Dodo said...

Ernsty

Absolute guff, dear boy. No evidence, just assertion."

When in Rome..? *Chortles, with shoulders rocking up and down madly. ;-o

Ernsty Blofeld

10 November 2011 at 18:13  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Ernsty
Shoulders madly rocking up and down - you're not a 'head banger' are you?

Here we are
here we are and here we go
all aboard
and we're hittin' the road
here we go rockin' all over the world !
Gitty-up
gitty-up and get away

we're goin' crazy and we're goin' today
here we go rockin' all over the world !
And I like it
I like it
I like it
I like it


Just take it easy.

10 November 2011 at 18:44  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Ooo-whee, do it one more time for me!
Ooo-whee, do it one more time for me!

Can't stop, stop that man there he goes again I really really love
To watch him, watch him headbangin' Blofeld is a headbanger
Tiddles is a geek
Do it one more time for me Ooo-ooo-whee! Ooo-ooo-whee!

Ooo-whee, do it one more time for me!
Ooo-whee, do it one more time for me!

10 November 2011 at 19:10  
Blogger len said...

A Jesuit, a Dominican, and a Trappist were marooned on a desert island. They found a magic lamp, and after some discussion decided to rub it. Lo and behold, a genie appeared and offered them three wishes. They decided it was only fair that they could each have one wish. The Jezzie said he wanted to teach at the world's most famous university, and poof, he was gone! The Dominican wished to preach in the world's largest church, and poof, he was gone! Then the Trappist said, "Gee, I already got my wish!"

10 November 2011 at 20:28  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

And then along strolled a 'born againer' ...!

Back to the drawing board for the poor Trappist.

10 November 2011 at 20:41  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10 November 2011 at 22:39  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

DanJO

Type "<" and "a href=", followed by the http URL, followed by ">", followed by the word(s) you want, followed by "<" and "/a>". I've split the tags of course so they're not acted upon here.

Many thanks for trying.

But! No! Don't get it! Tried and it's not happening. Could you type out an example without all the "? You'll find a way of teaching me.

10 November 2011 at 22:44  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Dodo,

Your comment about my red light district quip is obviously tongue-in-cheek, but I now recognize that my jest was grossly crude, a hillul ha shem/desecration of the Name, which might have left the impression that I'm somehow ok with prostitution. This is not the case at all. Prostitution destroys people, the prostitutes and their clients, and all who are involved violate their relationship with the Almighty.

What's more, as one of the growing number of truckers who donate to charities which assist truck stop prostitutes, pejoratively known as "lot lizards," to obtain shelter and financial assistance, and who presumes to lecture fellow drivers on the need to treat our unfortunate sisters with respect and charity, I'm doubly ashamed of my poor judgement and will try to think before I jest next time.

11 November 2011 at 01:43  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Mr Ernst, thank you for your comment. My problem, though, is in not being able to gauge at all whether the theological horseplay between you folks here is a beneficial form of horseplay, a friendly rivalry expressed in that dry Brit wit which we Colonials will never really get, one which helps to keep important theological topics alive or, G-d forbid, a deep and dangerous rift between fellow Christians and countrymen. I hope for the former, for it seems to me that we're all heading into stormy waters which threaten to soak us all.

11 November 2011 at 02:16  
Blogger len said...

Avi,

There are two parallel
Churches which run side by side .

One is the 'church of religion 'devised by men.

Another is the Body of Christ which is a total work of God from start to finish.

The first hates the latter because you cannot join it but have to be born (again)into it.
This is not my idea but God`s.

What purpose did Jesus have in saying “you must be born again” to Nicodemus and thereby to all men? Jesus meant to say: “Nicodemus, you have religion, honor and power; but more is necessary. You must be born again.” The Lord Jesus recognized the real need of Nicodemus. He saw that Nicodemus had a heart concealed under his long robe that was hungry for more than he presently possessed. Christ sensed that Nicodemus was not satisfied either with his power and position or his piety. Christ knew that Nicodemus could not find rest or peace with God in the rites, strictness and ceremonies of the Pharisees. Consequently, he had been driven to Christ by night.

Therefore Jesus informed him of the new birth. It was as if He said, Nicodemus, your trouble is within. Your trouble is not cured by putting on a new front and living religiously. You must be brought into a new relationship with God. Your heart must be renewed. It is necessary that God again makes His dwelling place in your heart. The Holy Spirit must make you a new man and work a new nature in you.

(The Pharisees were the ones who crucified Christ, those who follow religion have the same spirit within them (hence all the remarks from Dodo and co)

11 November 2011 at 07:30  
Blogger len said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2011 at 07:46  
Blogger len said...

Q,Is it necessary according to the Word of God to be 'born again'?
A,It is absolutely necessary to be born again to be saved and enter the Kingdom of God.
St. John 3:1-7; I Pet. 1:23; Titus 3:5
Q,How did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know about the "new birth" from the Old Testament?
Jer. 31:33; 32:39; Ezek. 11:19;18:31; 36:25-27; Ps. 51:10; Isa. 1:18-20; 55:6

The New Birth is not:
Water baptism, church membership, reformation, trying to do better, making resolutions to quit bad habits, giving money or service to the church, or trying to be' a Christian' without the life of Christ inside.
Q,Is it possible to be born again without Jesus Christ?
No. Salvation is through a Saviour, the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Matt. 1:21; Acts 4:12; Rom. 6:23; I John 5:11-13; Luke 19:10.

Q,Is it for every person?
Yes, "whosoever will."
John 3:16, 17; Rom. 10:13; John 4:10-15; Rev. 22:17

Q,Why is it necessary to be born again and thereby receive salvation?
a. Because you have sinned.
Rom. 3:23; 1 John 1:10; Isa. 53:6.
b. Because of your lost and fallen condition:
(1) Your sins have separated you from God. Isa. 59:1,2.
(2) Mankind is depraved and inclined towards sin.
Gen. 6:5,6; Psalm 53:2,3; Isa.64:6; Eccl.8:11.
(3) The penalty of your sin.
Rom. 2:11-13; Rom. 6:23.
(4) You are spiritually dead.
Eph. 2:1; I John 5:12; St. John 3:36.
How can a person be born again?
I. God's Part.
(1) Jesus Christ died in your place and for your sins so that you can be forgiven and receive that new life.
I Cor. 15:3; Isa. 53:5,6,12; Gal. 3:13; Heb. 2:9; I Pet. 3:18; Heb. 9:28; I Pet. 2:24; Rom. 5:8.
(2) Forgive sins.
Heb. 10:16,17; I John 1:9; Isa. 55:7; Isa. 43:25; Isa. 44:22, 1:18.
(3) Give Spiritual Life. Eph. 2:1,5; I John 5:11 13; St. John 3:1-7.

II. Your Part.
(1) Choose to be. Choose the way of Jesus instead of the way of Satan; choose to call on the Lord for salvation. Choose whom you will serve.
Josh. 24:15; Rom. 10:13.
(2) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Absolute trust.
John 3:16-18; John 8:24; I John 5:10.
(3) Receive Him. John 1:12.
(4) Repent. (Be sorry for your sins - confess them - leave them.)
Acts 3:19; Acts 2:38; Luke 13:5.
(5) Confess Christ openly. Rom. 10:9,10.
(6) Be Baptized.
Acts 2:38; Mark 16:15; Matt. 28:19.

11 November 2011 at 07:49  
Blogger William said...

Avi

Unfortunately, I think it's a heady mixture of (among other things); British (inter-tribal) banter, quest for truth, missplaced loyalty, bad blood and unforgiveness.

Not a pretty sight and distinctly un-godly. You are right to highlight the dangers I think!

11 November 2011 at 09:29  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

William

I agree up to a point. The evidence of for "misplaced loyalty" depends on where you're standing and is associated with "bad blood and unforgiveness".

The different 'histories' we present are contentious with 'victory' for one side being 'defeat' for another. Celebration of one 'tradition' can be perceived as triumphalism to another 'tradition'.

Rather that let the past lie and move on we refer to "learning lessons from past history" - and, of course, agreeing what this is and what these might be is where the trouble arises.

The events of 1688 is a case in point.

11 November 2011 at 13:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "But! No! Don't get it! Tried and it's not happening. Could you type out an example without all the "? You'll find a way of teaching me."

Have a look at the hyperlinks section in here for the explanation.

11 November 2011 at 20:36  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

DanJ0

Thank you. What fun lies ahead!

11 November 2011 at 22:37  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Len and William,

Thank you for your very different responses. Not only am I of different "persuasion," but having lived in Canada for most of my life now, I'm still clearly misunderstanding and misreading the currents, trends and nuances in what to a rapidly decreasing, but still significant number of us remains and always will be Canada's Mother Country. The hope I have is that with this Internet thingie, the cultural pull from our big neighbour to the south and the centrifugal forces of official multiculturalism will be mitigated and we will at least on one level connect better Britain, the source of who we are here, and not just to the quaint idealized and romanticised stuff, but to all of the genuine and messy stuff as well, the beaks, nails and assholes, as the expression goes. One may hope.

16 November 2011 at 12:28  
Blogger Oswin said...

Avi: that would be 'arseholes' old boy.

17 November 2011 at 00:20  

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