Thursday, December 01, 2011

Bribing Croatia to join the EU



This is appalling. Absolutely appalling.

As Nigel Farage observes, the whole campaign is ‘bent, corrupted and distorted’.

It’s one thing to blame the Communists.

They are not, however, working alone.

Mr Farage points out that Croatia does not have a free press. This is curious, since there exists a European Charter on Freedom of the Press, which you might think ought to be a pre-requisite for EU membership. After all, how can a nation be in any sense democratic if there is no media pluralism and freedom of expression?

As the EU Commission states: '...in order to have effective freedom of the press, public authorities have a role to play: they must be ready to protect freedom of expression and foster its development'. It is incumbent upon the Commission to itself comply with this Charter and contribute actively to ensuring its recognition throughout the European Union. In the press release announcing the Charter, there was a call for it 'to be made a condition for candidate countries in future accession negotiations'.

How on earth can an EU member state be permitted to censor its media, prohibit free access to national and foreign media sources, and deny its journalists the freedom to gather and disseminate information?

Unless, of course, the EU is concerned neither with freedom nor democracy.

55 Comments:

Blogger peedeel said...

The driving force behind the EU is not freedom nor democracy, but power. Power and self-aggrandisement.

1 December 2011 at 07:41  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

"in order to have effective freedom of the press, public authorities have a role to play"

A useful role for public services. Well I never.

1 December 2011 at 08:28  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"Unless, of course, the EU is concerned neither with freedom nor democracy."

Ernst shouted from the back "BINGO"

1 December 2011 at 08:46  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

What about the European arrest warrant? That is one of the biggest worries, you can be arrested in England for an offence committed here against the laws of another EU country, even if the offence is not against UK law.
So if they had a law banning, say, criticism of their government's policies, you could be arrested, and taken there, for criticising their policy on press freedom.

1 December 2011 at 09:10  
Blogger Hereward said...

Freedom and democracy are thorns in the EU's hide, but mere irritations to the beast.

The fact that there are so few voices raised against this Croatian deception tells us all we need to know about the democratic credentials of most of our own politicians.

1 December 2011 at 10:18  
Blogger Manfarang said...

English Pensioner
You might get extradited to the US for an offense not committed there.

1 December 2011 at 11:13  
Blogger Preacher said...

One wonders what it will take before we get a government that has the guts to cut the rope that holds us to this sinking luxury liner. An amoeba can see what's going on. It's all about power & a corrupt World takeover bid by a bunch of turkeys that have found utopia.
The early part of the clip bears mute testimony to the facts, look at all the empty seats! have they all gone out on important EU business? More likely Christmas shopping at Harrods.
They may all be riding the Gravy train now, but gravy & Paxo plus cranberry goes well with Turkey.
Perhaps we are in la-la land or maybe Narnia, (Always Winter, but never Christmas.) But watch out when the thaw comes Turkeys, the oven is warming up & the veg is on the hob!.

1 December 2011 at 11:31  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

One wonders what our government thinks of former communists taking these bribes, stifling debate and muzzling the press? David Cameron and William Hague are mute at the moment. Are they bothered or just plain disinterested?

1 December 2011 at 11:46  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

Once upon a day, the Eu DID mean freedom & Democracy.
But it does not any more.
One of (the main, in fact) reason I've turned against it.
A really good idea has become a bureaucratic monster.

1 December 2011 at 12:00  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

Mixed feelings on this one. Journalists are as crooked as a dog's hind legs anyway. So corrupt, in fact, that if you arrested and interned every one of them, closed down all newspapers, tv and radio stations and outlawed all professional news gathering, it wouldn't make one scintilla of difference to the quality of news available to the public.

On the other hand, I suppose a 'free press' is the price you pay for an environment where we can get actualy news through forums like the internet. We have to protect the rights of a 'free press' in order that we may gather our own news. Surreal, but true.

1 December 2011 at 12:17  
Blogger Oswin said...

'Moonpie' @ 12:00: just when did the EU mean ''freedom and democracy''??? You mean, you once fell for all the 'guff' and have since changed your mind eh? Well, better late than never, I suppose.

1 December 2011 at 15:10  
Blogger Dodo's Gray Way said...

English Pensioner said...
"What about the European arrest warrant? That is one of the biggest worries, you can be arrested in England for an offence committed here against the laws of another EU country, even if the offence is not against UK law."

As pointed out already you can be arrested in very many countries for crimes committed here. These have been put in place to deal with evils such a sexual exploitation of children abroad, trafficking of women, drug smuggling etc. International gangs need international measures.

I doubt they'd be used for the purpose you suggest but I quess we really don't know.

Does holocaust denial in England result in arrest and extradiction to Germany? Abortion in one country where it is legal to arrest and extradiction to another country where it is not? Where etaeanasia is legal?

Let's not get too paranoid about the EU!

It's doubtful Croatia would be admitted to the EU without preconditions and advancement towards a modern liberal-democratic-pluralistic society.

Just a story to get the hackles up, in my opinion.

1 December 2011 at 15:28  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo:

''Let's not get too paranoid about the EU! ''

James Gordon Bennett!

1 December 2011 at 16:12  
Blogger Dodo's Gray Way said...

Oswin, there is a difference between paranoia and legitimate concerns about the direction of the EU. One's irrational and delusional. The other a reasoned and objective opposition. Both have fear and anxiety in common.

1 December 2011 at 17:41  
Blogger Someone said...

@ Dodo
"Does holocaust denial in England result in arrest and extradiction to Germany?"

May I refer you to the following :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/liberaldemocrats/3133966/Chris-Huhne-Dont-extradite-alleged-Holocaust-denier-Frederick-Toben.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7652274.stm

In short : An Australian, who flew into Britain, having published contentious material on his wholly Australian website, gets arrested on account of a German-issued EU warrant.

1 December 2011 at 18:05  
Blogger Gavin said...

It is only a few weeks since the EU abolished the elected governments of not one, but two countries, and replaced those governments with its own unelected bureaucrats. All because those two former governments dared to question EU 'bailout' policies, with one of those elected governments actually daring to propose a national referendum to let its citizens decide.
I remember thinking to myself, "well, if that does not open the eyes of even the most devout Europhile as to the true nature of the EU, then nothing will".

In the light of those events, the Vatican's continued support of the EU project can only be viewed in one of two ways: It is either a case of pure folly and naivety, on a scale which only clergymen are capable of in matters of politics, or else it is downright sinister.

1 December 2011 at 19:15  
Blogger len said...

The European Union has been set up by stealth , I suspect very few people knew of the real purpose and intentions behind those who set up E U.

The intentions of those who set up the E U were to consolidate power into the hands of a few unelected men,and they have done this by increments, the noose has tightened so slowly and surreptitiously that many were not even aware of what was happening until it was too late!.
Of course this all comes as no surprise to God as he laid this all out in the book of Daniel in the Bible.Daniel is also important for anybody who wants to understand Bible prophecy. Without understanding Daniel, a thorough understanding of Revelation is impossible. Daniel is the foundation for the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation, is the completion of the plan first revealed to Daniel in the Babylonian and Persian kingdoms over 2500 years ago.

1 December 2011 at 19:23  
Blogger Dodo's Gray Way said...

Gavin & len

*sigh*

You should know the folly of using prophecy as prediction, yet you vainly continue doing so.

1 December 2011 at 22:02  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, your communicant is surprised by your naivety.

As the deeply sinister Peter Mandelson informed us, 'the democratic experiment in Europe has failed. We must now move on to the post-democratic society'.

Mandelson was an EU Commisioner who knows the inner workings of the EU better than most. The contempt for freedom of the press outlined in Your Grace's post is nothing more than standard operating procedure. Can you imagine Mandelson's reaction to Your Grace's post? He would scarcely begin to understand Your Grace's points, let alone regard them as relevant.

But the cancer has spread more widely. Consider William Hague's berating of Iran in measured tones that included the words 'European Union' in every sentence. Is Iran worse than the EU in terms of democratic failings?

Perhaps Mr Hague should be more careful in his assumptions about the moral posture of those with whom he wishes to be associated. Or at least, perhaps Mr Hague should think more carefully about the implications of FCO briefing papers before he reads them out.

1 December 2011 at 22:50  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Doddy the gray sighed

Luke 19:42-44

42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

and

2 Peter 3:17

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

What is the error of the wicked?

2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

It is most important to know the literal signs, is it not?

*sighs and rolls eyes, (allegorically for RC's)* Chuckles to self

Ernst

1 December 2011 at 22:55  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

How can I get some of this EU cash? [That's not a rhetorical question btw].

How can I become an MEP? My small charitable organisation constantly scrapes around for a few £000. If I could become an MEP or some EU mandarin I could employ about 6 more project workers to help spread the gospel in this great city of mine. Any experts out there?

1 December 2011 at 23:20  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, of course if you take the Bible literally then you would have to accept that the Bible condemns Catholic practices and I suppose that is your dilemma (and that of all that follow the Catholic and other faiths) which conflict with the truth revealed in the Bible.
.................

Why would God give us prophecy?

Because prophecy is one of the best proofs that the Bible is true and that it was written by God not man. No man can predict things like the Bible predicts. For example, in the book of Daniel, the Bible predicts every world power from Daniel's day until now. God names every world power, as well as putting them in order and accurately describing them…God has given us Bible prophecy to show His Word to be unique, true, and worthy of trust.


Isaiah 46:9-11
"Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure,' calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it."

John 16:1, 4
"These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble...
"But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you."

Daniel 12:9-10... . And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. . Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

2 December 2011 at 00:04  
Blogger Dodo's Gray Way said...

Ernsty
Broad brush dear chappie, not specifics as you and your chums seem to think.

As Jesus said:

"However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows."

And what are the things Jesus refers to?

"And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that you be not troubled. For these things must come to pass: but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be pestilences and famines and earthquakes in places. Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows."

Jesus,if He so chose, could have been more precise speaking as a Person of God. He spoke in general terms apart from one specific reference to an allusion in Daniel. Biblicl prophecy isn't the same as star gazing or prediction.

Daniel, the text oft quoted and assumed to pertain to Europe and Rome, could apply to all manner of Kingdoms and Empires - physical or otherwise.

Enjoy your chuckle and rememberI'm still waiting to hear about your reasons for comparing Peter with Judas and appearing tp suggest they were both Satanic influences.

2 December 2011 at 00:08  
Blogger non mouse said...

ves heill Mr. Farage.

2 December 2011 at 00:11  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo @ 17:41 :

The EU is indeed ''irrational and delusional'' - what's not to be paranoid about? Any other reaction would be madness.

2 December 2011 at 00:44  
Blogger Gavin said...

Excuse me, Dodo, but where did I use prophecy or prediction (or even quote the Bible, or even make mention of any spiritual text or reference whatsoever) in my above comment?

You're a hopelessly deluded and/or naive fool if, after the events of the past few weeks in Italy and Greece, you still fail to grasp what has been plainly demonstrated in front of the eyes of the whole world; namely, that the EU is a malevolent tyranny, a dictatorship which must be fought before it's too late.
Take those stupid blinkers off your eyes, stop saying to yourself "oooh, err, well, I don't know, but I guess if the Pope supports it, it must be OK". It blooming well isn't OK, and he's utterly wrong to support it.

2 December 2011 at 00:52  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Doddy

"Enjoy your chuckle and remember I'm still waiting to hear about your reasons for comparing Peter with Judas and appearing tp suggest they were both Satanic influences." Dearest chap, lots of people are still waiting to hear you answer their questions also, whether as Chancellor More, a Simpler Fool or any other of your previous 'manifestations' *Huge Chuckle*

Read again and you will see in verses 39-40, "after you" indicates four successive world-ruling empires from the time of the Chaldean empire of Nebuchadnezzar until the return of Christ and the establishment of the Kingdom of God. We see in overview an outline of world history from a Gentile perspective, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and coming all the way down through the various kingdoms until the image is struck on the foot by the Stone, representing the Kingdom of God, or Christ.

This prophecy brings us right into our present time—the time of the end—the time when can expect that the Stone, sometime in the not-too-distant future, will strike this image on the feet. We can look for that last empire, represented by the feet and toes, to exist today, or either be coming together, or will shortly be coming together. History has shown that these four empires, beginning with the head of gold, to be the Chaldean (the head of gold), the Medo-Persian (the chest and arms of silver), the Greco-Macedonian (the belly and thighs of brass), and the Roman (the legs and feet of iron) empires. The Roman Empire existed from 31 BC to AD 476. Secular history shows that the Vandals defeated Rome, but Rome was revived and re-established as "the Holy Roman Empire" under Emperor Justinian in AD 554.

Though these empires overlap to a small degree as one rises and another falls, their dominance in world affairs is successive. This is clearly shown in Daniel's explanation: "But after you shall arise another kingdom . . . then another" (verse 39). Thus, we should expect to be able to follow this prophecy on a historical time-line except where it continues into the future, should we not.

The Romans had little sympathy for the populace of the nations they conquered, sending millions of men, women, and children into slavery. As John F. Walvoord put it, "The glory of Rome was built on the misery of its conquered peoples."

The Romans made crucifixion of the enemies of the state a standard practice. When Galilee revolted in AD 6, the legions hammered the region's untrained army and crucified two thousand men along the roads to Sepphoris, which they leveled.

Even Cicero (106-43 BC), a Roman statesman and author, wrote:

It is difficult to convey to you, gentlemen, the bitter hatred felt for us among foreign nations because of the unbridled and outrageous behavior of the men whom we have sent to govern them during these past years. What temple in those lands do you think has had its sanctity respected by our magistrates? What state has been free from their aggression? What home has been adequately closed and protected against them? They actually look around for wealthy and flourishing cities in order to find an occasion of waging war against them and thus gratify their lust for plunder.

Ernst

ps

Hmmm. Wonder what the early church fathers made of the fourth beast?

2 December 2011 at 02:12  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Shall we see what did the early church fathers believed;

St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130-202)
Adversus haereses (inter A.D. 180/199)
Book V, Chapter 26

John and Daniel have predicted the dissolution and desolation of the Roman Empire, which shall precede the end of the world and the eternal Kingdom of Christ. The Gnostics are refuted, those tools of Satan, who invent another Father different from the Creator.

1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord's disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, ...


Book V, Chapter 30

Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.

2. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ...

3. It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. For if there are many names found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas (EUAN QAS) contains the required number, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also Lateinos (LATEINOS) has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: ...


Tertullian (2nd-3rd Century)

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way." What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? "And then shall be revealed the wicked one, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even him whose coming is after the working of Satan, with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish."

CHAP. XXXII.

There is also another and a greater necessity for our offering prayer in behalf of the emperors, nay, for the complete stability of the empire, and for Roman interests in general. For we know that a mighty shock im (43) pending over the whole earth--in fact, the very end of all things threatening dreadful woes---is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman empire. We have no desire, then, to be overtaken by these dire events; and in praying that their coming may be delayed, we are lending our aid to Rome's duration.

Ernst

What, more?

2 December 2011 at 02:20  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Hippolytus (3rd Century)
TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST.

25. Then he says: "A fourth beast, dreadful and terrible; it had iron teeth and claws of brass." And who are these but the Romans? which (kingdom) is meant by the iron--the kingdom which is now established; for the legs of that (image) were of iron. And after this, what remains, beloved, but the toes of the feet of the image, in which part is iron and part clay, mixed together?

And mystically by the toes of the feet he meant the kings who are to arise from among them; as Daniel also says (in the words), "I considered the beast, and lo there were ten horns behind it, among which shall rise another (horn), an offshoot, and shall pluck up by the roots the three (that were) before it."

And under this was signified none other than Antichrist, who is also himself to raise the kingdom of the Jews. He says that three horns are plucked up by the root by him, viz., the three kings of Egypt, and Libya, and Ethiopia, whom he cuts off in the array of battle. And he, after gaining terrible power over all, being nevertheless a tyrant, shall stir up tribulation and persecution against men, exalting himself against them. For Daniel says: "I considered the horn, and behold that horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them, till the beast was slain and perished, and its body was given to the burning of fire."

26. ...

27. As these things, then, are in the future, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey.

28. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander's time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst; the stone that smites the earth and brings judgment upon the world was Christ.

St. Cyprian of Carthage (3rd Century)
TREATISE XI.
EXHORTATION TO MARTYRDOM, ADDRESSED TO FORTUNATUS.

PREFACE.
1. You have desired, beloved Fortunatus that, l since the burden of persecutions and afflictions is lying heavy upon us, and in the ending and completion of the world the hateful time of Antichrist is already beginning to draw near, I would collect from the sacred Scriptures some exhortations for preparing and strengthening the minds of the brethren, whereby I might animate the soldiers of Christ for the heavenly and spiritual contest.

Ernst.

Even more, What?

2 December 2011 at 02:22  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315-386) Doctor of the Church
Catechetical Lectures
LECTURE XV.
ON THE CLAUSE, AND SHALL COME IN GLORY TO JUDGE THE QUICK AND THE DEAD; OF WHOSE KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END, DANIEL vii. 9--14.

12. But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is now drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after these an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, three he shall humble, and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself. At first indeed he will put on a show of mildness (as though he were a learned and discreet person), and of soberness and benevolence: and by the lying [108] signs and wonders of his magical deceit a having beguiled the Jews, as though he were the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all kinds of crimes of inhumanity and lawlessness, so as to outdo all unrighteous and ungodly men who have gone before him displaying against all men, but especially against us Christians, a spirit murderous and most cruel, merciless and crafty. And after perpetrating such things for three years and six months only, he shall be destroyed by the glorious second advent from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Saviour Jesus, the true Christ, who shall slay Antichrist with the breath of His mouth, and shall deliver him over to the fire of hell.

St. John Chrysostom (c. 347-407) Doctor of the Church
Homilies on Second Thessalonians
HOMILY IV. 2 THESSALONIANS ii. 6--9.

ONE may naturally enquire, what is that which withholdeth, and after that would know, why Paul expresses it so obscurely. What then is it that withholdeth, that is, hindereth him from being revealed? Some indeed say, the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman empire, to whom I most of all accede. Wherefore? Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him. And otherwise he ought now to have come, if he was about to come when the gifts ceased; for they have long since ceased. But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. ... And he did not say that it will be quickly, although he is always saying it--but what? "that he may be revealed in his own season," he says, "For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work." He speaks here of Nero, as if he were the type of Antichrist. For he too wished to be thought a god. And he has well said, "the mystery"; that is, it worketh not openly, as the other, nor without shame. For if there was found a man before that time, he means, who was not much behind Antichrist in wickedness, what wonder, if there shall now be one? But he did not also wish to point him out plainly: and this not from cowardice, but instructing us not to bring upon ourselves unnecessary enmities, when there is noting to call for it. So indeed he also says here. "Only there is one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way," that is, when the Roman empire is taken out of the way, then he shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exit himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God. For as the kingdoms before this were destroyed, for example, that of the Medes by the Babylonians, that of the Babylonians by the Persians, that of the Persians by the Macedonians, that of the Macedonians by the Romans: so will this also be by the Antichrist, and he by Christ, and it will no longer withhold. And these things Daniel delivered to us with great clearness.

Ernsty

2 December 2011 at 02:24  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

And who could forget the words of ;

St. Jerome (c. 340-420) Doctor of the Church
Commentary on Daniel, Chapter 7, Verse 8:

"... We should therefore concur with the traditional interpretation of all the commentators of the Christian Church, that at the end of the world, when the Roman Empire is to be destroyed, there shall be ten kings who will partition the Roman world amongst themselves. Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings, ..."

What say you Doddy, my fine Lad.

Ernsty

How's the Ducktorate keeping?

2 December 2011 at 02:26  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Someone 18:05
What you fail to mention is that the magistrates threw out the case and Tobin was not extradited.

2 December 2011 at 06:49  
Blogger bluedog said...

Herr Doctor Ernst, this communicant is looking in vain amongst your quotes by early churchmen for word from Timothy the Weasel, sometime Patriarch of Alexandria.

Nothing to report?

If so, how disappointing.

2 December 2011 at 08:08  
Blogger Dodo's Gray Way said...

Blofeld the Ernest
Just underscores my point, dear man.

Now when did the Roman Empire end? I seem to remember it was sometime around the middle of the 5th century.

Gavin
You didn't quote the bible, no. You did have a dig at the Vatican saying their support for the EU was sinister. What on earth has the current EU financial problems got to do with the Vatican?

2 December 2011 at 08:56  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Doddy Stray Way

"The Roman Empire existed from 31 BC to AD 476. Secular history shows that the Vandals defeated Rome, but Rome was revived and re-established as "the Holy Roman Empire" under Emperor Justinian in AD 554." Has the head of the Catholic church in Rome been abolished and it has had not influence over the affairs of nations since..It merely awaits it's man to crown him..Do read Daniel thoroughly or is everything allegorical, even the old testament prophecies regarding Jesus Christ..Was Bethlehem an allegorical image in prophecy of a poor insignificant town anywhere or was it really Bethlehem?

Micah 5:2
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Did Jesus only suffer on the cross allegorically as prophecised and expanded on by his well meaning but deluded disciples or did it really happen?

Did Jesus really send for an ass to ride into Jerusalem as prohecised or was it allegorically fulfilled.

Name one piece of old testament prophecy that was fulfilled allegorically and not literally regarding Jesus. I await indefinitely in your case!

Do you ever read anything put in front of you..How revealing!

Ernst

Bluedog.

You have lost Ernst.

Timothy of Alexandria the fable teller (Outrageous story of how God created Angel of Death/Appolyon as revealed by Jesus to His Apostles before ascending to heaven) was a coptic not Roman and said nothing regarding the 4th beast of Daniel that Ernst is aware of whereas those quoted knew exactly what it referred to and stated so in writing.It appears some people have no shame when creating lies and subterfuge to 'assist' the faithful on their path to perdition.
As St Peter says in his epistle;
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

If you know something he said, do tell.

2 December 2011 at 14:31  
Blogger Oswin said...

Gavin @ 00:52 :

You're not wrong!

2 December 2011 at 15:58  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

Ernsty
That's the thing with prophecy, you only know its correct after the event! It's not fortune telling aide.

The Nativity is interesting. It was 'Wise Men' or 'Magi' from the East who saw Christ's arrival and not the Jewish people who had been awaiting Him and had access to prophecy.

The Old Testament is full of ambiguous statements about the Messiah. Christians see these one way. Jews see them another way. The Apostles only understood after the death and resurrection of Jesus and Pentecost.

What I'm saying is don't be so vain as to believe you understand biblical prophecy about the future. Better men have tried and failed. The wise stay silent.

Daniel may or may not be specific to our times. His prophecy may or may not pertain to Rome. I happen to think not. Your interpretation is coloured by your hostility towards Catholicism and organised Christianity.

Maybe the prophecy warns of the delusion, false teachings and apostasy your branch of worship.

2 December 2011 at 17:40  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo : apropos of your final statement it's simple, ask any meerkat, God is English, why would he give a brace of hoots about Rome? ;o)

2 December 2011 at 17:58  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

Oswin
Actually, I think He is probably Irish and Jewish! And He cares about us all.

2 December 2011 at 18:08  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, you do not seem to trust God at all (especially strange for an alleged Christian?)

Your faith seems to reside in the Catholic religion not in God, or His Word.

I suppose the only answer to your apparent inability to grasp the truth is that God has sent you a strong delusion so you can no longer know or accept the truth.
I will keep going though because there may be others bound within religion that have a love of the truth which will enable God to set them free!.

2 December 2011 at 18:39  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

len

The Holy Spirit revealed that to you, did He?

In case you miss it, here's a little joke to help you:

An Orthodox, an Anglican and a Roman Catholic all arrived at the pearly gates and were greeted there by St. Peter.

As they passed through the pearly gates they saw a great big wall.

St. Peter said: "Shhhh!... You will have to be very quiet as we go past the wall." So, they were all very quiet as they passed the enclosure.

After they had passed the enclosure they all wanted to know why they had to be so quiet.

St. Peter said: "The Evangelicals are in there and they think that they are the only ones here!"

2 December 2011 at 18:46  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo @ 18:02 : hee hee old chap, it's he way you tell 'em...guffaws...nice one - Oirish/Jewish - you are a wag! :o)

2 December 2011 at 20:24  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

Oswin

Don't go getting allBlofeld the Ernest on us now with demented guffaws!

OiVe

2 December 2011 at 21:43  
Blogger Gavin said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 December 2011 at 01:46  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

Mr Gavin
Please cite any references where I have actually supported the EU - one will do?

I was simply urging less paranoia as evidenced in your rather colourful and manic comment:

" ... the EU is a malevolent tyranny, a dictatorship which must be fought before it's too late" and the deluded accompanying belief that the Vatican is somehow behind all this.

Do get a grip.

3 December 2011 at 02:02  
Blogger Gavin said...

We need to have LESS paranoia about the EU, do we?
In the light of all that has taken place in the last few weeks, I need to quote evidence of this to you, Dodo?
-Only if you have been wilfully blind and have taken a monastic vow against reading the news headlines.
No, you get a grip, Dodo. Get a grip on reality, get a grip on what is actually taking place on planet Earth, and in particular, on planet EU. And learn yourself up about what took place in some of these "European" countries under Stalin. Learn about Romania on 25/12/89, or about Lithuania on 13/1/91. Learn how much peopke sacrificed in order to be free of the strangulation of communist rule, and stop being an apologist for the totalitarian strangulation of the EU (USSR Mk II).

3 December 2011 at 02:23  
Blogger len said...

As the tower of Babel is rebuilt in Europe under the guise of the 'European Union' I suppose the religions devised by man will be dominant there.
Not surprising 'to me at least) that Catholic symbolism is rife.Also many behind the E U past and present are Catholics.
Not 'rocket science' working out what is going on with the Vatican`s past history.

3 December 2011 at 09:25  
Blogger Dodo's Gay Way said...

Gavin
You compare the EU to Stalinist suppression! Deary me.

There is an openly declared political movement to integrate Europe into a federal state. What's the big deal? Member countries can say 'No' without the fear of tanks rolling into their capitals. And sure, the Euro is one mechanism for tying countries into this. More fool those who joined without the foresight to realise they would become bound to the wealth of Germany and France. The present crisis means they face civil and financial collapse or being dragged further into a superstate. Its up to their politicians and electorates to decide. I'm unaware of a cadre of 'Party Members' in their parliaments or them having a single party states.

Do you have any real idea about Communist repression? You insult the memories of those who lived nd died under that regime when you compare the EU with the evils of Communism.

Maybe you should stop reading the headlines and actually read the text of the news and perhaps read more widely.

So, as I said, do get a grip.

3 December 2011 at 09:29  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

Ien
the catholic religion was devised by men ....
( One of my "testable principles" - remember? )

4 December 2011 at 08:48  
Blogger len said...

The 'religion' as endorsed by Jesus Christ is totally super- natural.
The religion of man is a clumsy(unsuccessful ) attempt to re produce this. Religion is a counterfeit of the real.

4 December 2011 at 09:55  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len

The cross is a religious symbol and used by Roman Catholics. Do you object to its use?

The bible was written and preserved down the millenia by Christian monks and priests - religious people who dedicated their lives to serving God and others. Do you object to the bible as a religious object?

The Way of Jesus is of course 'super natural' and the mystery of God is beyond our comprehension. But He came to earth and commissioned His Apostles to make His message known throughout the world. A religious movement that you owe your salvation to. Yet you criticise the evangelists of 2000 years.

Have you no shame? Are you so conceited that you think you know better? Do you really think owning seven bibles and sudying Greek and Hebrew on-line is superior to the thousands of years of Christian hereitage that has told the world about God?

4 December 2011 at 11:42  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, thousands of years of error piled on top of the truth is not something to be proud of.

The Bible (the written Word) testifies to the Living Word ,if you add to the Bible(traditions) or indeed take things away from the Bible(mock and disdain Bible Prophesy) you have corrupted the Gospel.

4 December 2011 at 14:12  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len

I repeat, bible prophesy is neither mocked nor disdained by the Roman Catholic Church. It is the vain attempts attempts by individuals to use it as a definitive guide to current affairs is ridiculous and idolatrous.

As a source of insight into the teleological direction of God's plan for man it is a source of wisdom. It teaches us good comes from evil and that as chaotic and random as our lives seem there is a purpose and a plan behind our individual and collective experiences.

Frankly, to misuse the bible to 'understand' current events in Europe and the Middle East and to allow this 'understanding' to influence one's actions, is using the bible for man's selfish purposes not God's. It's Satan whispering in your ear that you can know all things. Jesus Himself told us not to speculate about His Father's will and the timing of His return.

Thousands of years of error piled on truth? Now that's a very non-specific and wide ranging charge to make against the whole of the organised Christian movement! Your 'Johnny come lately' revisionism is more likely at fault. Its legion of prophets, predictions, messages and basic dependance on an emotional and experiential foundation to approaching biblical truth is irrational.

4 December 2011 at 15:15  
Blogger len said...

Dodo,
The very same allegation was used against Jesus by the Pharisees.

You seem to be in good company, can`t you think of anything original without Albert to help you?
You really are just a stooge aren`t you.

9 December 2011 at 19:39  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len

Just who are you claiming to be?!

A few quotes on Church tradition:

"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you"
(1 Cor. 11:2).

"Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us"
(2 Tim. 1:13-14).

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter."
(2 Thess. 2:15)

"You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also"
(2 Tim. 2:1-2).

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God"
(2 Peter 1:20-21).

"‘Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete"
(2 John 12).

10 December 2011 at 01:20  

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