Friday, December 30, 2011

Vatican lauds the euro as 'a stimulus for greater unity'


His Grace is reminded that this New Year’s Eve marks the 10th anniversary of the launch of the euro coins and notes. It is easy to pour scorn over the BBC, the FT, the Guardian or poor Michael Heseltine for their europhiliac obsessions. But what may be easily (or purposely) overlooked is the boundless enthusiasm (Gr. 'inspired by God') which arose from the Throne of St Peter in Rome. ‘Euro in the Vatican gets Pope's blessing,’ bleated The Telegraph even before the coins were minted.

And a special ‘Celebrative Silver Coin’ was minted (‘Europe, a project for peace and brotherhood’). Pope John Paul II addressed the faithful pilgrims gathered in Saint Peter's Square regarding the introduction of the Euro, saying:
I extend a special greeting of peace and of prosperity to the Nations of the European Union that today, with a single new currency, have reached an historical goal. I very much hope that this will favour the full development of the citizens in the various countries. May justice and solidarity grow throughout Europe for the advantage of the entire human family!
Historic goal? The ‘full development’ of citizens?

According to a Wikileaks cable from the US Embassy in the Vatican to the State Department in Washington, the Vatican’s Finance Minister Cardinal Sergio Sebastiani said the euro can be seen as a kind of guiding light ‘so that it can overcome the barriers of past divisions and become a stimulus for greater unity among the nations’. It notes: ‘The introduction of the euro is actively supported by the Vatican for political reasons rather than economic reasons’. It adds: ‘Throughout his pontificate Pope John Paul II has consistently preached of a Christian Europe stretching from the Atlantic coast to the Ural mountains.’ And then we read: ‘He is likely to regard the introduction of euro notes and coins as another instrument towards the realization of the dream.’

That dream is of a united Roman Catholic empire stetching 'from the Atlantic to the Urals'. And it remains the religio-political objective under the pontificate of Benedict XVI (eg here and here). His Grace will say no more, lest the mere reporting of these (inconvenient) facts incite the usual suspects to the same tedious ad hominem.

59 Comments:

Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"His Grace will say no more, lest the mere reporting of these (inconvenient) facts incite the usual suspects to the same tedious ad hominem."

OH, SURELY YOU JEST, YOUR GRACE. *Giggling gaily (can Ernst use that word in a manly way?)*

E S Blofeld

30 December 2011 at 20:17  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

ps

Over 1 hour has passed and the usual suspects are strangely silent? An urgently called jesuit blog gathering to celebrate the 10 years perhaps? Silence can be most revealing as well as being golden.

It appears that ending a thread with "His Grace will say no more, lest the mere reporting of these (inconvenient) facts incite the usual suspects to the same tedious ad hominem." has them straining at the tether not to respond (Oh, the admirable self dicipline of the Jesuit!)..whilst every sinew must be bursting to spew 'Bigot'.

Maybe worth ending each thread in the self-same manner, just for the peace.

E S Blofeld

30 December 2011 at 21:09  
Blogger DizzyRingo said...

Maybe the Holy See wouldn't mind the UK disappearing from the fray as it is full of those pesky C of E and Non Conformists!

30 December 2011 at 21:57  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace is undoubtedly aware that since the time of Tacitus, Rome has demanded submission, with the compensating benefits of security and prosperity. The prospect of barbarians living in freedom has always appalled and been seen as a threat to the natural order. The EU and the Holy See combined are simply a failed manifestation of SPQR in its later Imperial form.

Sadly for the Cives Romani of today, the current European version of SPQR lacks the competence of the original.

Indeed, one has to look across the Atlantic to find the true successor to the glory of Rome. Ghastly, ghastly thought - so uncouth and nouveau, those Americans.

30 December 2011 at 22:33  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Cranmer

You know ...

Okay, so the Euro may not have worked but do explain just how the dream of a united family of Christian nations in Europe, stretching from the Atlantic coast to the Ural mountains, is the same as a united Roman Catholic empire? Surely tou meant to use a capital in Empire? It's not the same, now is it?

And Heaven's above, the current Pope and his predecessor turn out to be Christians with a 'religio-political' objective of maintaining Christianity in Europe Well I never! How dare they!

Would you prefer Europe to be Islamist or perhaps atheist?

30 December 2011 at 23:06  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Ernsty said ...

"... whilst every sinew must be bursting to spew 'Bigot'."

Really? The fanciful and twisted belief that Rome is attempting to ensnare the world, starting with Europe, is just that - fanciful and crazy. It's held by you and a few other nutters.

I'm not so sure Mr Cranmer actually holds this opinion or, based on it, has an irrational hatred of Catholics. No, he just hates the idea of a 'United States of Europe' and I agree with him on that. The Vatican supports the European Union - big deal!

He clearly has an issue with Papal authority and the position the Vatican holds towards Anglicanism, but then so do many others, so we'll forgive on that one.

30 December 2011 at 23:21  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Ernst and Tiddles

I missed you!


And I am sorry to say that a week or two ago I saw a tweet from Anjem Choudary saying that the euro would help advance unity. In the Ummah.

30 December 2011 at 23:23  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
It is typical that the Papist named after an extinct bird should be so irreverent to your gracious self by calling you first; Cranmer, and then; Mr.Cranmer. With the help of the first Cranmer, this country was freed from the bonds of Rome. Thank God for it and may it be so always.

31 December 2011 at 00:25  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Let me make myself clear on this. it's not that I don't like Catholics, I do. I just don't like the control from Rome.
Bless you Inspector and a double blessing on you Dodo. You need it.

31 December 2011 at 00:32  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Mr Integrity?
Firstly, I'm a Catholic - not a 'Papist'.

And you do know this isn't the real duplicitious Archbishop Cranmer you're addressing? Why address a person masquerading as a former Archbishop as 'Your Grace'?

So you"like Catholics" do you? But not, it seems, their loyalty to the Vicar of Christ, Christ's appointed Shephard of His Church. Now, just what "control from Rome" are you referring to?

Your 'blessing' and its implied terms, I reject.

31 December 2011 at 01:06  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Kind words from you Integrity. For your information, the Inspector is a loyal subject of her majesty who just happens to adhere to the Church of Rome.

He’s a humble servant to God, Queen and Country, don’t you know...

31 December 2011 at 01:11  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Inspector
'Kind words'? A serpents words more like, without the purity of the dove.

As a contemporary of Archbishop Cranmer said, as he was excecuted for treason, a crime he was innocent of:

"I die the king’s good servant but God’s servant first."

31 December 2011 at 01:29  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. The original Cranmer was burnt by Mary. He should have skipped bail so to speak and got his carcass over to the continent PDQ.

31 December 2011 at 01:49  
Blogger Johnnyrvf said...

The Ural mountains fall under the duristiction of the Russian Orthodox Patriarchate, who as with the other Eastern Orthodox Christian Patriarchates still accept that the official schism between the Papacy and the Patriarchate of Constantinople, which happened in 1056, is still in force. The Eastern Orthodox Church still does not recognise the Pope or much of the Church of Romes theology, so therefore it is doubtfull if the dream will ever be realised with the continuing attitude of Rome to the authentic Church of Christ.

31 December 2011 at 03:38  
Blogger OldJim said...

Dear Mr Johnnyrdf,
I don't mean to imply anything other than common sense with this remark.
I certainly don't wish to imply that I regard protestant worship of the Christian God as meaningless or ridiculous, or to aggravate my brothers and sisters in Christ who are of that persuasion, the majority of whom I have long been convinced are a loving and God-fearing people.
All I am addressing is your own position.
Nonetheless, please consider that you are (at least implicitly) telling off Roman Catholics as apostates whilst reading an Anglican's blog. It doesn't require a terrible amount of circumspection or a masters in history or theology for the irony to become apparent.
I promise that I am sincerely wishing you a joyful Christmas (and sincerely sad that such clauses have become necessary), Jim.

31 December 2011 at 04:54  
Blogger OldJim said...

(OK, to be clear about what I'm saying in the last remark, for those who need it; a great majority of that list of things which Constantinople finds ugly about Rome are nonetheless also distinctives of the Anglican tradition, likewise, the majority of things Anglicans consider abhorrent in (Roman) Catholic worship are unabashedly present in the Eastern Orthodox liturgy too. Making common cause over dislike of the papacy and its consequences is as absurd as it is superficial, and if you can't see that then you cannot see the wood for the trees.)

31 December 2011 at 05:16  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Presumably the Pope is of the belief that the EU wresting control from Italy's democratically elected political leader (ridiculous tit that he is) and replacing him with an unelected EU sock puppet was the result of justice and solidarity?

How many celebrative silver Euros are we talking about here? Thirty perhaps?

31 December 2011 at 08:43  
Blogger Albert said...

Mr Integrity

Your Grace,
It is typical that the Papist named after an extinct bird should be so irreverent to your gracious self by calling you first; Cranmer, and then; Mr.Cranmer.


The irony is, of course, that it is wrong, even by CofE standards to refer to a former Archbishop as "Your Grace". In the CofE Archbishops, once they cease to be Archbishops, return to the status of Bishops, and are thus properly addressed as "Bishop", never as "Your Grace".

31 December 2011 at 11:02  
Blogger Albert said...

Dr Cranmer,

I don't see what all the fuss is about. The CofE is still making similar comments about the EU - as you commented on this recently, and a 2009 (Big Brother) House of Bishops report stated

The short history of the European Union is a remarkable success story. Within the short span of 60 years the war-torn and economically and politically bankrupt continent of Europe has been transformed. Peace amongst the member states of the EU is now taken for granted.

The CofE has less excuse for its Europhilia than the Popes. It seems to me that the Euro-project finds particular support among continentals who lived through the war. They see it as a way of saying "Never again". The whole shape of Europe comes from a combination of French humiliation from 1940 and fear of Germany on the one hand and German shame on the other.

But we in this island see it differently. For us, there is always a Dunkirk mindset. That Anglican Bishops support the European project so firmly is down to their left-leaning political opinions, rather than the hard personal experience of the Popes.

31 December 2011 at 11:10  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Albert said ...

"The irony is, of course, that it is wrong, even by CofE standards to refer to a former Archbishop as "Your Grace"."

Then how should one properly address a person who masquerades as a man of the cloth, as a former Archbishop no less? A man with obviously dented political aspirations and an evident suspicion of all things European and, in particular, Roman?

As 'Your dis-Grace' perhaps?

31 December 2011 at 13:13  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Albert; I'm sure you are right on the correct usage of titles but this is all a bit of a fictitious 'game' is it not? We are commenting on the reports of a man purporting to be the original Cranmer, so let’s not take ourselves too seriously.
Inspector; the Inspector is a loyal subject of her majesty who just happens to adhere to the Church of Rome We all know that Sir. Your spirit is reflected in what you write and I have every confidence that you follow the Lord Jesus in humility and reverence through your worship in an RC Church.
Dodo; What more can I say? It is regretable that you take offence so easily. Quite why you spend so much time on this site, dedicated to Anglicanism is beyond me. It would seem that you take sport in driving everyone demented with your pathetic arguments. I am in no position to take back the blessings of God so, in turmoil you will you remain till that day that the shekinah of God illuminates your understanding.

31 December 2011 at 13:55  
Blogger Johnnyrvf said...

@ Old Jim,Why is it that when Orthodoxy is ever mentioned it nearly always gets a negative response? supposedly all Churches are united in Christ, yet there are over 2000 various versions of the Church of Christ, most of them Protestant, ever fracturing away from the original Church in a seemingly never ending spate of ' theological ' hissy fits. The many differences between the Church of Rome and the Byzantine are subtle and varied, but there are many Protestants who come to Orthodoxy because of it's theological legitimacy despite the 'bells and smells' so deplored by many Protestant facets of the Church. As to ironies, so what? my point was purely that the Papal dream of an empire stretching into Russia is not going to happen for many reasons, one of which is how strong the Orthodox Church is in Eastern Europe and beyond.

31 December 2011 at 13:59  
Blogger Albert said...

Mr Integrity,

I'm sure you are right on the correct usage of titles but this is all a bit of a fictitious 'game' is it not? We are commenting on the reports of a man purporting to be the original Cranmer, so let’s not take ourselves too seriously.

Who's taking it seriously?!

31 December 2011 at 14:01  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Albert
Me, I'm taking it all seriously ;0)

Mr Integrity
If this is 'turmoil' then I'll keep it over your thinly veiled hypocracy, thank you.

31 December 2011 at 16:23  
Blogger Albert said...

Mr Integrity,

Quite why you spend so much time on this site, dedicated to Anglicanism is beyond me

Er...the blog is about politics and religion - neither of which is the preserve of Anglicanism, as far as I can see. (And the post is about...Catholicism.)

31 December 2011 at 17:47  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

I'm sorry, Cranmer, but sometimes you are so full of it that your eyes are brown. You just get through one post going nuclear over one Jewish student who must be the victim of anti-Semitism because she didn't score highly enough on her exams for the career advancement to which, presumably, she thinks herself entitled, then you turn around and go into full Titus Oates mode over some popish plot. Is this philosophical randomness the result of your Protestantism, or are you just a flake?

31 December 2011 at 17:53  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Archbishop. The Pope is fighting his corner. Rather more concerned with increasing Islamic activity in Europe than the concerns of a large Island 30 miles off the continent, one would think. Anyway, he’s hardly going to take an Anglican line now is he, Catholic that he be.

By the way, you can get off the couch now, and I’ll see you next week. We’ll get to bottom of this Romeophobia eventually, so don’t despair. pip pip for now. Oh yes, that will be 30 guineas...

31 December 2011 at 18:01  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Ariadne 30 December 2011 23:23

Ernst is always elated when we (Ernst and T) see you still commenting.

Best Wishes for the New Year, my fine lass.

Ernsty

Tiddles says 'HI'.

31 December 2011 at 19:25  
Blogger Ariadne said...

And a very happy New Year and many of them to you and Tiddles, Ernsty, to His Grace and to all!

Dodo is pontificating about genetics from spurious sources on another thread. The Shepherds one.

31 December 2011 at 20:32  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Apologies. Dodo the Geneticist makes his appearance in "Christian Concerns..."

31 December 2011 at 20:52  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Ariadne
So rude!

You still haven't answered if 'Jew' is a religious or racial term. Well?

Do you hate Arabs that much you can't bear the thought of being genetically related to them?

31 December 2011 at 21:52  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Dodo

You like to insult people but you need to learn to earn the right to ask questions.

Start with truth. There is no reason for anyone else to get behind the walls that limit you.

31 December 2011 at 21:59  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Ariadne said ...
"You like to insult people ...

Pot ... kettle. Just returning the favour and its not because you're Jewish.

Not a believer then?

31 December 2011 at 23:08  
Blogger non mouse said...

Welcome back Mr B and Tiddles, and also Ariadne.

As ever, I voice my opposition to el papaseeto and, indeed, to all who would unite us under the crown of Antichrist. For that is the nature of the plot, and its motivators pretend to be what they are not.

1 January 2012 at 01:10  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

non mouse

Have you stopped taking your tablets? Naughty, naughty. You're getting all paranoid again. Just live your life and do stop worrying about the Catholic Church, there's a good boy.

1 January 2012 at 01:25  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Mr Integrity said ...

"Quite why you spend so much time on this site, dedicated to Anglicanism is beyond me.

Yep, I agree, it probably is beyond you. That aside there are a couple of other problems with your comment.

First, you need to define 'Anglicanism'. As an outsider I haven't a clue what this actually means. Perhaps you could clarify this? Or maybe not as it would mean being clear and that's just not the 'via media' way, now is it?

Second, is it "dedicated to Anglicanism"? I mean what are the central themes of the blog? Anti-Europe; anti-Rome; anti-Islam. Apart from these themes what does it actually stand for?

Next, how many bloggers on here are Anglicans? 'Protestants' certainly gather here but members of the Church of England? Very few in my experience. There's probably as many differences, if not more, between the various protestant sects as there is between Catholics and many Anglicans.

So think on and stop being a twerp.

1 January 2012 at 02:26  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

As an escaped evengelical, now an atheist ...
I have no hesitiation in telling the evil Vatican and its' crawling pope to
GET STUFFED

1 January 2012 at 09:42  
Blogger Ariadne said...

non mouse

Thank you so much and a very happy New Year to you and yours.

I do know people who find the antichrist in a very important building with the initials WH. And I do apologise to American friends on whom no slur in intended.

1 January 2012 at 09:50  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Tingey
It's a shame the evangelicals disturbed you so much and twisted your perceptions. It can do that when the 'born again' experience isn't confirmed and supported through solid theology and fellowship in the Church.

Ariadne
'Anti-christ' is a Christian concept! Judaism has no such idea. And to label someone as such on the basis of disagreement with Israel is childishness.

Please sort out your religious views. Are you Jewish, Christian or atheist? Or is it that you'll use any available bandwagon to justify and promote Israeli politics?

1 January 2012 at 13:32  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Wicked mouse wades in with her sectarian new year greetings. Yes fur ball, get on your knees when the Inspector addresses you. Your frothing at the mouth has nothing to do with Glasgow Rangers being kicked off the top by Celtic by chance. Won’t be the last we’ll hear of the Hun though, like the Devil really...

1 January 2012 at 15:48  
Blogger len said...

I see the Inspector is just as repulsive as ever......nothing changes.....not with the religious anyhow...sigh.

WV lowest ...Inspector?

1 January 2012 at 16:04  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

len

The Ispector was merely responding in his own inimicable manner to the poisonous, sectarian comments of another blogger. Did you bother to read this? Here it is:

"I voice my opposition to el papaseeto and, indeed, to all who would unite us under the crown of Antichrist. For that is the nature of the plot, and its motivators pretend to be what they are not.

Wonderfully Christian and not at all 'religious', eh?

BTW
"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

1 January 2012 at 16:21  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len. You hold a position and are prepared to argue his case. Good for you. There are some out there who use this site to hurl insults. Not pretty to see, a fellows church being attacked in this way. One would hope that the recipient of the Inspector’s fury might take a few minutes out and dwell on that....

1 January 2012 at 16:27  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. Thanks for the support. Seems to be a new years day offensive against the RCC ! Why they communicant’s can’t follow His Grace’s lead on each thread is beyond one you know...

1 January 2012 at 16:35  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Dodo

That's a nasty little gulag you are trying to run. Trying to proscribe my very words!

Why do you connect Obama with Israel?

And do you confess all your nasty little sins to a priest? I omit to mention the nasty big ones.

1 January 2012 at 16:45  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Ariadne

Did I connect Obama with Israel? I thought it was your "friends" who made the connection between him and the antichrist.

Now why would I want to "proscribe" your words when they are so revealing, as are the exclusive and elitist websites your recommend?

1 January 2012 at 18:00  
Blogger Ariadne said...

Dodo

It's awfully obvious that you don't know what you are doing.

I really don't have time for juvenile games.

Perhaps if you improved your language comprehension skills you would be a less negative individual.

1 January 2012 at 18:10  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len. I see the Inspector is just as repulsive as ever......nothing changes.....not with the religious anyhow...sigh.

Listen you weasel, the mouse has previous. She curses the Pope and derides RCs so often that it has become second nature to her. She doesn’t realise her sectarian stance is disgusting to decent Christians or even atheists come to that. What is really frightening is that, without any shame, she can come on to the Archbishop’s august site and throw her hate around in the same casual manor as the rest of us are wishing each other a happy new year. So bloody reminiscent of the NAZIs attitude to Jews.

You yourself are a twit, albeit of the first order of twits. But that’s all you are, a twit. Be grateful for that....

1 January 2012 at 23:16  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 January 2012 at 01:58  
Blogger non mouse said...

Seconded, Ariadne @ 18:10.

Furthermore, prevention of "language comprehension skills" is a practice of both Romans and the euSSR. The former have long refuted the right to read and interpret Scripture (or anything) in our own languages; the latter deconstructs education by preferring the use of time-consuming marxist claptrap.

I therefore no longer either read or engage with praeposters for such powers and dominions: such as the 'plods' on His Grace's site.

2 January 2012 at 02:40  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Ariadneand non mouse

What a cosy, narrow minded couple the two of you make. You're welcome to one another. And so glad too you've both decided to keep quiet!

2 January 2012 at 03:58  
Blogger len said...

Inspector,
Now that youv`e given Catholicism a go why don`t you try Christianity?.
Of course this would mean changes, a lot of them...... nah perhaps its not for you or Dodo?.

You mention Nazis do you know that the Vatican supported them..plenty of evidence on the net.

2 January 2012 at 08:41  
Blogger Ariadne said...

A sensible policy, non mouse!

I arrived at approximately the same position in another thread.

2 January 2012 at 12:25  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len. As Harold Steptoe would say, “Oh my gawd, not the NAZI supporting Vatican again”. Proof please that the Pope was a card carrying honourary member of the NSDAP, the SA or the SS. Can’t produce the proof, best ignore your slur then. And one more thing, how about Len’s brain doing a bit of thinking on it’s own this year, and less reliance on the Net.

2 January 2012 at 13:02  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Inpector

"Seems to be a new years day offensive against the RCC!"

Of course and one to be expected. Afterall, it is the Catholic Church alone that stands against all false and redundant religions and against heresy. No wonder people are motivated to undermine it. Some take great delight too in Christians being divided too.

We must be so irritating to the enemies of true Christianity.

2 January 2012 at 23:48  
Blogger Oswin said...

Ariadne @18:10 : Too harsh! In Dodo's defence, I must point out that, as a talking ar*e, he doesn't do so badly. It's actually quite remarkable, all things considered; although seldom a pleasant experience.

3 January 2012 at 03:25  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Oswin
Happy New Year to you too.
With 'supporters' like you, who needs enemies?

3 January 2012 at 12:48  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo.it is the Catholic Church alone that stands against all false and redundant religions and against heresy.

You make a VERY good point there. If the Catholic church wasn’t around, these Protestant sects would have each gone their own way and eventually you wouldn’t be able to determine between Christianity and socialist liberalism. (Ah, snag. That’s already happened to large parts of the Anglican church). Still, the theory still holds firm for the larger examples of the rest of them. They pour scorn on us, yet we are the paste that somehow keeps them in the general area of Christ’s message.

However, Len and the born agains are well over the horizon, don’t you think ?

3 January 2012 at 18:02  
Blogger Dodo the Katholikos Dude said...

Inspector

len and his pals are misguided and have been led astray. The attacks on the Catholic Church come from many directions - some obvious and some not so obvious.

3 January 2012 at 20:08  

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