Sunday, April 08, 2012

He is not here: for he is risen, as he said


From the moment the risen One first appeared, it became clear to the women and disciples exactly who had died on the cross at Golgotha, and so who Jesus is. Only in the event of Easter does the birth, suffering and death of the Messiah make sense: if God raised Him from the dead, then Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, the Redeemer of Israel, the Lord and the Saviour of all nations. If the Resurrection event is an eschatological one, then the risen One cannot be what He is only from the time of His resurrection: He must also have had the same identity in his suffering and death on the cross, in His proclamation and ministry, and in the whole of His life from the very beginning.

Raising from the dead is an eschatological act of God performed on Jesus, and it endorses and fulfils His messianic claim. The endorsement and fulfilment of Jesus’ claim are complementary: if we wish to confine ourselves to endorsement, ‘resurrection’ would be no more than an interpretative theological category for His death; and all that would remain would be a theology of the cross. If we were to concentrate solely on the fulfilment, the Easter Christ would supplant the crucified Jesus. But if the earthly Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God, then Easter endorses and fulfils the whole.

The Resurrection is an eschatological event and the beginning of the new creation of all things. For that reason the astonishing fulfilment of Jesus messianic claim is stronger than the endorsement of His historical truth: “How much more...?” asks Paul, when he compares Christ’s death and His resurrection. How much more, indeed. No other single event in the history of humanity has transformed so many lives and inspired so much beauty and wonder. No other god or demigod has moved man to the creation of such sublime works of art: ‘the Lord who created must wish us to create, and employ our creation again in His service, which is already His service in creating.’ And still, 2000 years on, you may get a glimpse of the ecstasy, the rapture and the joy of the moment of Resurrection from those whose spirits have communed with the Living Christ. ‘From the heart: may it go to the heart’:

55 Comments:

Blogger Alison Judith Bailey said...

As a choir, we start our Easter anthem today, on a suitably rising major scale singing: "He is risen, He is risen....". We are celebrating the love, mercy and faithfulness of God and His forebearance to sinners, accepted through the Cross, and also celebrating an historic event. I am going to prepare...

8 April 2012 at 09:57  
Blogger Kinderling said...

In the three recent posts about the sacrifice of Jesus, not once did His Grace quote a word he said, those very teachings of reality Jesus died for.

No, he used St Paul's words of belief... a man who never met Jesus yet spoke to Jesus after Jesus was dead.

The Communists, Islamists and Sexually-Identified understand broken men in submission and conversion, will have all seen the light.

Protect the little children from these who did not follow the narrow way of conscience to the truth to live the life.

8 April 2012 at 13:19  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Christianity has indeed been the inspiration for sublime works of art that the world has ever known.
I quote from the late well known atheist and author John Mortimer.

"Much of the literature I've valued,the art I've most enjoyed
has been produced by unquestioning Christians. Whether I'm a believer or not,I'm a part of a Christian
civilisation."

Everyone who lives in the West is
consciously or unconsciously bound by Christian ethics,enshrined in the law and culture.

There are signs of serious erosion caused by secular influence and other invasive anti Christian religions but it is not too late. It is crucial to resurrect Christianity to its former status in our world.

A Happy and Holy Easter to His Grace and all communicants.

Cressida

8 April 2012 at 14:06  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

"Truly, He is Risen"

"And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed with a white robe: and they were astonished. Who saith to them: "Be not affrighted; you seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified: he is risen, he is not here, behold the place where they laid him'."

Lord, by your cross and resurrection, you have set us free. You are the Saviour of the World.

Happy Easter, one and all!

8 April 2012 at 14:25  
Blogger IanCad said...

Thank you YG for eleven minutes of sheer beauty. Just sublime.

8 April 2012 at 14:26  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Cressida said, It is crucial to resurrect Christianity to its former status in our world. How true those words are yet many feel it is too late or that it is not relevant anymore.
I will never accept such assertions and will fight for the restoration of the Church and Christian ethics in society.
The post toady had a nice choral piece but it left me cold spiritually. We had an Easter concert on Saturday and even though many of the songs a newer ‘Hill Song’ songs, there was life being ministered. Jesus ministered to the common man and worship should be something that the common man can relate to.

8 April 2012 at 15:01  
Blogger non mouse said...

Happy Eastertide to Your Grace and all Communicants.

Thanks to Your Grace also for proceeding to answer your own questions in terms of eschatology.
After all, we know that AntiChrist will not prevail. He cannot; he demonstrates every moment of every day that his ways are disfunctional-even for his own materialism.

This, and its sublime opposite, is what the life of Christ also shows us: from Nativity to Resurrection and Ascension.

Your Grace and Cressida are right, though: we have our work to do throughout these times.

8 April 2012 at 16:46  
Blogger Oswin said...

Cressida @ 14:06 : well said throughout!



Happy Easter to you all.

8 April 2012 at 17:09  
Blogger Ir'Rational said...

The Lord is risen ...

... He is risen indeed

8 April 2012 at 18:32  
Blogger len said...

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the 'keystone' of salvation. It demonstrated that God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf. It proves that God has the power to raise us from the dead. It guarantees that those who believe in Christ will not remain dead, but will be resurrected unto eternal life. That is our blessed hope!
The 'old Creation headed up by the Parents of Humanity (Adam and Eve )ended at Calvary and the new creation began in the resurrected Christ.
The Cross of Calvary stands as a 'doorway' between the old and the new Creations.
Jesus Christ is the firstborn amongst many' 'For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.'(Romans 8:29)

8 April 2012 at 19:05  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova

Welcome back and thank you for the Easter greeting. I was pleased to see did not discriminate against tedious communicants this time.

I regret for speaking so badly to you recently and hope we can exchange friendly comments again. I forgot you are a member of the gentler sex and should be trated kindly.

Please avoid using doodles or doddles. Both have many meanings. For example "doodle" is used in a nursery rhyme to mock the song of the rooster. It can also mean simpleton.

Have a joyful and happy Easter, your cara dodo.

8 April 2012 at 20:04  
Blogger Preacher said...

Amen.
Jesus Christ alive for evermore.
Thank you Dr Cranmer.

May God bless all of you who write here at this joyful celebration of life in all its fullness.

Preacher.

8 April 2012 at 20:45  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Overdosing on chocolate easter eggs can lead to confusion. I have never called you Doodle.

Your Cara Dodo? I really do hope this is a slip of the pen or a linguistical error.I'm not prepared for this type of information.

9 April 2012 at 00:51  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida
Nice to hear from you. Feisty as ever, I see!

What on earth do you think I called you, my good woman? Cara is old Irish for friend. In Latin it means dear. Has it another meaning?

Now, as I recall, you have called me Doodles on a number of occasions. Okay, not Doodle but possibly the plural which is open to even greater misunderstanding. Language is open to so many interpretations! And, besides, this is not a court of law!

Your Cara Dodo

Ps
Are you in a bad mood?

9 April 2012 at 02:11  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Excuse me, you are not cara mia Dodo or caro mio Dodo.
PS
I am not in the mood,amore mio .

9 April 2012 at 06:03  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

All hail Osiris, the dead and Risen one!

Do grow up, please?

[ Alternative, rational, as opposed to mystical (i.e. made up) explanation ...
A big dose of Hyssop will send the recipient into a coma ....... ]

9 April 2012 at 08:00  
Blogger Kinderling said...

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the 'keystone' of salvation. It demonstrated that God accepted Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.

If you are not man enough to face up to your own sins, you are not man enough.

9 April 2012 at 08:14  
Blogger len said...

Kinderling , you obviously understand nothing at all about about God`s requirement for someone to atone for My(or any others) sins.
The sacrifice had to be perfect(no other would do)

I do not even come close to this specification!. So even if I sacrificed myself this would accomplish nothing in God`s eyes.

My contribution to salvation is to accept Christ`s sacrifice on my behalf.

This is God`s requirement.

9 April 2012 at 08:23  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova

Okay, okay! Are you Italian with all this amore mio stuff? As I said, it was simply Irish for friend.

9 April 2012 at 10:25  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9 April 2012 at 13:30  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Mr Integrity said...
"Cressida said, 'It is crucial to resurrect Christianity to its former status in our world.' (I) ... will fight for the restoration of the Church and Christian ethics in society."

Question:
Can one have a Christian ethic seperated from adherance to spiritual guidance?

Surely, if the foundation is removed in civil society eventually the building will collapse?

Can one imagine western people giving up the 'right' to contraception, the 'right' to abortion; the 'right' to divorce'; the 'right' to give expression to their sexual predilictions? Imagine a economic system truly based on Judaic-Christian principles - 24% interest rates on credit cards would have to go, for a start!

It is said: "A fish rots from the head down. Division in Christianity; seperation of civil leadership from Christian values; and the rise in secular, atheistic, liberalism.

All bode ill for the future.

9 April 2012 at 16:05  
Blogger len said...

The cult of' self'is part of the reason of the decline of Christianity in the West.
Nowhere is is this 'cult' of self more illustrated than in the rampant consumerism and the materialistic attitude of the vast majority of people.
The demand that people have their rights respected and to be 'disrespected' is in the eyes of some is the the ultimate insult, 'worthy' of handing out a beating or far worse!

Christianity demands a denial of self and 'taking up ones Cross' and this is the very opposite of the self centred 'what`s in it for me?' attitude prevalent today.

This selfish attitude starts right from the very top of the Government and filters right down through the 'pyramid' of Society.
Of course their are exceptions but they are exactly that.... exceptions.
We have as 'role models' those who have exalted' self ' to levels which are truly staggering and these'role models' are worshipped almost as as 'gods'.
It is only when one can' step back and gets some sort of revelation as to the true condition of the' fallen nature' that one can even see the necessity for change.

Unfortunately some people never arrive at this position.

9 April 2012 at 19:21  
Blogger Kinderling said...

St Paulian: "Christianity demands a denial of self and 'taking up ones Cross'"

Jesus, (the Jew who did not go to theological college), stated you take off your heavy yoke and you will see for yourself.

St Paulians are rife with denial-of-selves, Popes that self-flagellate and the resulting child abuse.

Light-yokes don't do all this.

9 April 2012 at 22:00  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len
In your theology what is the significance of the culture one livesin? Can it hinder or facilitate responsiveness to Christ's voice?

10 April 2012 at 01:30  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Your thoughts are well expressed on this post len and I agree with your sentiments, particularly with the references to consumerism materialism and 'rolemodels'.The problem has reached such an
insurmountable height in this regard that a topple seems imminent.

On a heartening note (I cannot quote the exact statistics )but some of our youth are at least searching for the spiritual and the sale of outdoor camping accoutrements has sky rocketed while Prada and Manolo Blahniks has sunk in its botox cups.

Even if youth learn to commune with God in nature,it's a start. Surely it's better for society,rather than binge drinking rolling round in the gutter on the weekends.

Christianity might have to embrace some environmental causes if the youth are to be drawn rather than using the' press gang'
approach of certain fundamentalist
communicants on this blog.

I know I shut down mentally when they come on and I think some of them quote reams of scripture to avoid discussing real issues.

10 April 2012 at 06:18  
Blogger len said...

Kinderling,


Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Those who punish themselves(in whatever fashion) have not understood Jesus`s message.Even the act of punishing oneself is not 'denying oneself' but putting 'oneself at the centre of attention!.
The Cross is an instrument of execution dead men don`t whip themselves!.
What Jesus is saying is let the old life die that a new life may arise 'in Him!.'

Dodo ,
Jesus often withdrew away from the crowds seeking quite places to speak to and to hear from His Father.

10 April 2012 at 08:13  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len

Yes He did but He was already one with His Father. Answer my question about the significance of the culture we live in and how this might impact on people's receptiveness to Christ and His message.

10 April 2012 at 12:01  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo neatly two stepped?

"Answer my question about the significance of the culture we live in and how this might impact on people's receptiveness to Christ and His message." Would be much more interested to hear where you are going with this or does Roman Catholicism have no culture within the area it resides.

Ernst

PS

Italy is renowned for the ability of it's people to be both atheistic communists and roman catholics simultaneously..adherence to religious imagery not founded on faith but superstition.
How has Italy's culture helped Rome??? Is this not the reason that Roman Catholics can be all things to all men, depending on the occasion, circumstances and culture Rome finds itself in.

Over Easter we were all treated to the monstrosity of RC's crucifying themselves in the Philippines as some kind of penance or feeling what Christ suffered but all this puerile behaviour shows is that the doers (wonder who taught them this crassness???) do not understand what Christ suffered. How on earth can they feel the sins of the world being placed on them and the separation Christ felt from the Father and Holy Spirit...only in RC Cultures does this sort of abomination occur and goes some way towards helping destroy the effectiveness of the gospel message!!!!!!!

10 April 2012 at 12:53  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

You've been quiet over Easter but I see you're making up for it now!

Maybe you'd like to answer the question I posed about culture and receptivity to Christ, rather than simply attack the Phillipine Catholics.

You have raised a significant thological issue about the extent of the separation of Jesus the Christ from the Father and Holy Spirit. Do you subscribe to Barth's views on this?

It is a serious matter to be threatened by hell, sentenced to hell, worthy of hell, and already on the road to hell. On the other hand, we must not minimize the fact that we actually know of only one certain triumph of hell—the handing-over of Jesus—and that this triumph of hell took place in order that it would never again be able to triumph over anyone. We must not deny that Jesus gave Himself up into the depths of hell not only with many others but on their behalf, in their place.

10 April 2012 at 13:35  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo being obtuse??

"You have raised a significant thological issue about the extent of the separation of Jesus the Christ from the Father and Holy Spirit."

I raised no such question but merely state what foolish RC's do!


"The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said."

"Do you subscribe to Barth's views on this? "

How about you answering your own gibberish in advance instead, so we can comprehend what nonsense you believe..It's called starting a thoughtful conversation, it's a two way thing that allows the other to agree or disagree with what is stated but it requires courage and conviction on what you state!
Rather than your usual approach of avoiding specific things people such as Len quote and you going off in a tangent. Are you man enough to change is the question?

Ernsty

10 April 2012 at 14:01  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Len

Well spoken and written over Easter, my boy. Ernst has enjoyed your comments.
I have a large extended family who have come to see me over the weekend that I am still doing ok hence no supporting comments from yours truly!

Ernst has had to view such nonsense asked by others that I cannot believe it has not been answered correctly.

Why did Christ not state some things that St Paul feels he must elaborate on in his epistles.

1. Jesus was preaching to Israel who had the Old Testament so He did not have to go over who Adam was, as if Adam and the others needed justifying as real by Christ. The Jews knew this! Jesus's genealogy states his line back to Adam in Luke. Neither did he preach regarding Homosexuality as it is in the Old Testament. The Jews knew this! All of this was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so can He be mistaken?
2. St Paul was Apostle to the Gentiles, who had lost the true knowledge of God that had been saved by the Jews throughout their history. They knew some story's but had put them into the category of legend such as demi-gods in relation to Genesis and Nnumbers (Genesis 6 and Numbers 13 ) or Flood story's that abound in every culture. They also had no Old Testament so the laws of God were a mystery to them so Paul must elaborate on their conduct going forwards as new gentile Christians.

Keep up the good work.

Ernst

10 April 2012 at 14:24  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

The Catholic Church is not a part of any 'culture' but other cultures do express their faith according to local customs. Christianity allows a variety of modes of expression. Do you have an issue with this?

What is the problem if these are consistent with doctrinal teachings? It is the practice in Britain to have Good Friday processions carrying a Cross. Do you object to this too? It's symbolic and in no way meant to add to Christ's suffering. It's an act of witness - not an "abomination".

Now answer me about the impact of a culture on the receptivity of the Christian message on individuals, if you will.

And I did not go off at a tangent. You offered a view that suggested Christ was seperated from the Trinity on the Cross. As man, as the Second Person of the Trinity or as both?

"How on earth can they feel the sins of the world being placed on them and the separation Christ felt from the Father and Holy Spirit..."

10 April 2012 at 14:26  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ps

The Church's position:

"We do not judge and condemn, but we discourage it," Archbishop Jose Palma, president of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines, said of the crucifixions.

The Rev. Melvin Castro, also of the CBCP, said "the church's position is there's no need to go through this physical and literal pain on the body because Christ already did that for us."

He said what the church asks is for people to "enter into the passion and death of Christ by internal sacrifices," including going to confession and giving alms.

10 April 2012 at 14:31  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

"The Catholic Church is not a part of any 'culture' but other cultures do express their faith according to local customs." Of course it was/is or do you know nothing regarding your church.

Constantine separated the church into Western and Eastern pillars and chose to move to the east because of troubles in the west part of the empire and Rome in particular. The Eastern outlived the western by nearly 1 thousand years until overrun by Muslims with the 'Rome' church doing nothing.

Roman Catholicism is called 'Roman' for a reason..History lesson?? Since when has Rome moved anywhere else, situated in Paris for 20 years was it?

Christianity allows a variety of modes of expression. Do you have an issue with this? NONE unless it is expressly forbidden by scriptures and must be endorsed by Christ and His Apostles!!"

"Now answer me about the impact of a culture on the receptivity of the Christian message on individuals, if you will." I have answered with Italy, where the 'magisterium' of Rome resides and has influenced that nation from it's (RCC) beginning. Not good, is it? They are 'born' into it yet the majority reject what the Bible teaches as irrelevant but Rome will somehow get them through the pearly gates, however they have lived, somehow.

"You offered a view that suggested Christ was seperated from the Trinity on the Cross. As man, as the Second Person of the Trinity or as both?" So what say you first? '"How on earth can they feel the sins of the world being placed on them and the separation Christ felt from the Father and Holy Spirit..."' Can any man bear the sins of the world upon themselves or not? Many men and women died crucified by Persians first (they invented it) then on an industrial scale by Rome. Did those crucified take the sins of all mankind upon themselves or is it the actions of deluded RC's that miss the point completely of Christ's sacrifice?

"Ps

The Church's position:" err, no anathema's from us, appears to be the doctrine on blasphemy or find your own path but we suggest...!

"It's symbolic and in no way meant to add to Christ's suffering. It's an act of witness - not an "abomination". " & "Do you object to this too?" EMPATICALLY!
Walking with a cross is entirely different from an act of crucifixion that has no purpose other than to degrade what Christ did for us by that cruel act of the Romans and by collusion from the Jewish leadership who would know how Christ would die at the roman hands.

"enter into the passion and death of Christ by internal sacrifices," Just to give thanks and remember what it cost our Saviour should suffice as our sacrifices are wretched rags before Him. He asks for our obedience, not worldly sacrifices that seek to justify us.

"What is the problem if these are consistent with doctrinal teachings?" Where is this doctrinal in the Holy Bible? an answer would be nice.

Ernst

10 April 2012 at 15:31  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty
Is there any really point in discussing these issues further with you given you have made your mind up?

Who are you to judge the entire Italian population?! Or to judge the less sophisticated and less well read people of the Phillipines or any other developing country?

I just thank God the early Church was not in the hands of people such as you. It would be a barren, unloving and unforgiving Church. Come to think of it,it probably wouldn't exist.

10 April 2012 at 20:07  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

Dear boy

The early fathers were like Ernst, hence their challenging of heresy and apostasy.

This was soon forgotten once it got to Augustine who was prone to apply man made philosophy against the Word rather than let the Word speak for itself!

The predicament that the RCC finds itself in to this date.

"Who are you to judge the entire Italian population?! Or to judge the less sophisticated and less well read people of the Phillipines or any other developing country? " Ernst observes what they say and do..It's a duty to correct those that stray or else their blood will be passed to you to give an answer for when you KNEW they were going after false paths that lead nowhere.

"Is there any really point in discussing these issues further with you given you have made your mind up?" Don't be like that. Study to find yourself a man of sound handiwork when it comes to rightly dividing the Word of God. It's our duty and great privilege to those who love Him.

Man up young Dodo..or as the Captain of the Titanic said to his crew as the ship was sinking. 'Remember, Be British'!

Ernst

10 April 2012 at 20:30  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernst
Just how would it assist the developing faith of these people to demand that they desist these practices?

The Catholic Church is not a cultural vandal and trys to assimilate and eradicate such practices over time. The Church has always done this - that's why such as you accuse it of having absorbed pagan religions.

Do you celebrate Christmas? Originally a pagan festival. Your cold, puritanical approach leaves me cold. Sitting there with your books and your 'history', pontificating and condemning the simple people who love God and the missionaries and the Church who brings them knowledge. You bad mouth the early Church but forgot it was that Church that kept the light of Christianity burning for centuries.

Just how is what these people are doing heretical or blasphemous? Distasteful and unnecessary, I agree andso does the Church. I'm minded of the history of China when the protestant missionaries arrived with their lack of foresight and insensitivity and their 'sola fide' and 'sola scripture'. The result was millions of dead in a civil war and to this day a deep suspicion of all things western.

You say its your duty to correct them! Maybe you should begin by understanding them better.

10 April 2012 at 22:40  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

Now that's off my chest, let's discuss the point I was raising.

Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?

Answers would be welcomed rather than a rant about events 1800 years ago and some obscure practices in the Phillipines.

10 April 2012 at 22:46  
Blogger len said...

The Catholic Church was born out of compromise and has always strived to crush and silence the voice of the true Church of Christ.

History bears this out.

The Church of Christ however cannot be crushed or silenced or suppressed because the Church of Christ is headed by Christ Himself. You cannot imprison the holy Spirit,chains cannot hold Him,He is not restricted by time or space.
The Truth of God is so vital so important that God knew that fallen men would use His truth for their own advantage, their own gain so God concealed His Truth ..in Christ.

'1 John 2:26-27 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.'

10 April 2012 at 23:02  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len

Do stop all this clap trap and try to answer my question, there's a good chap.

Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?

10 April 2012 at 23:31  
Blogger len said...

Dodo the greater 'obstruction' to the Holy Spirit is the 'spirit of religion'.

Look at the Pharisees to see this spirit in action.

You portray this 'spirit of religion' perfectly as does your Church.

11 April 2012 at 07:50  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

"Just how would it assist the developing faith of these people to demand that they desist these practices? " Then why on earth did Paul send epistles to these 'developing' churches;

First Thessalonians
Second Thessalonians
First Corinthians
Second Corinthians
Galatians
Romans
Ephesians
Philippians
Colossians

rather than just say 'continue as seems right in your own eyes'?

"The Catholic Church is not a cultural vandal and trys to assimilate and eradicate such practices over time. The Church has always done this - that's why such as you accuse it of having absorbed pagan religions. " ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN! The Borg - For the greater good, perhaps?

"Do you celebrate Christmas? Originally a pagan festival." We have had this conversation and Ernst quoted the writing of the Early Fathers to show they despised this practice but 'The Borg' would have none of it..Assimilate, Assimilate!

"You bad mouth the early Church but forgot it was that Church that kept the light of Christianity burning for centuries. " See above, it is YOUR church that ignored what they plainly stated!

"I'm minded of the history of China when the protestant missionaries arrived with their lack of foresight and insensitivity and their 'sola fide' and 'sola scripture'. The result was millions of dead in a civil war and to this day a deep suspicion of all things western. "

Utter nonsense but it appears your history needs 'reminding' or do you know nothing about The Treaty of Nanking (Treaty of Nanjing) or the "Unequal Treaties", which China concluded with Western nations.
What I know is there's a treaty in 1943 called 《关于取消英国在华治外法权及其有关特权条约》. It can be translated as "Treaty for the cancellation of Britain's extra-territoriality and related privileges in China". In this treaty, Britain abandoned all the privileges she got from China in all the treaties before. Including the right of warship cruising in Chinese territorial water, and other so called equal rights.

For the HMS Amethyst event that sparked our part in the civil war of 1946-49, it was simply because the ship cruising on Yang Tze river was illegal. The right for British warships to cruise on Yang Tze river terminated in 1943 after a new treaty between China and Britain, as a result of the alliance between China and Britain during the WWII.

What on earth has this to do with 'protestant missionaries arrived with their lack of foresight and insensitivity and their 'sola fide' and 'sola scripture'.'..Hmmm.

and

"Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?"
Still courage-less I see, to state your argument? You really are a big girls blouse, so do grow a pair boy or perhaps the NHS can fund you a pair on the surgeons table!

Ernsty

11 April 2012 at 09:07  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

Unlike youto resort to abuse when you run out of arguments.

That's what you do though,isn't it? React to questions rather than initiate.

Have a little read about Hong Xiuquan and the Christian missionaries - 20 million people died. A pamphlet from a Protestant Christian missionary caused so much grief!

The culture of a society, what it values, the way women are regarded and children raised, are, in my opinion, critical to the receptivity of the Christian message.

What do you think?

11 April 2012 at 09:27  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

"Unlike youto resort to abuse when you run out of arguments." Abuse???lol. You are surely jesting..you can be the most abusive communicant that frequents this blog. Just man up and state your case with examples or reason is all that Ernst asks rather than slyly looking to gain kudos by asking in advance what others hold to rather than your our opinions given. Give your supposition before asking others! Literal cowardice is what I call it.

Hong Xiuquan (Taiping Rebellion (NOT 20 million was it) and that he laughingly believed he that he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ..HELLOOOOOO. But then Popes have stated they are God on Earth have they not?) and the Christian missionaries (How they can be blamed for all this just mystifies me..perhaps the reason they refused to baptise the fella perhaps?).

"Unlike youto resort to abuse when you run out of arguments.

That's what you do though,isn't it?"

So which am I? Unlike or Thats what I do?

"The culture of a society, what it values, the way women are regarded and children raised, are, in my opinion, critical to the receptivity of the Christian message."
I quoted Italy yet they are NOT receptive to the Christian message, only having the most nominal association with Jesus through the RC Church.
Belief in Christ is mere association with superstition and religious rituals for their own sake..repeating the signs of the cross, repetition of Our Fathers and Hail Marys as mantras etc etc.

God himself and our witness is the only thing that makes receptive the Gospel Good News or else using your analogy the early churches should have not been created as they were NOT examples of good living (culture of a society, what it values, the way women are regarded and children raised) you suggest, were they!

We cannot do it without Him, He will not do it without enlisting us.

Ernst

11 April 2012 at 09:56  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty said ...
"We cannot do it without Him, He will not do it without enlisting us."

Who would disagree? Yet,it is you dancing around now.

I have concluded you are a fantasist living in the First Century.

You do not understand Catholicism at all and have constructed your own version of it. If it were as you present it, I would not be a member.

And you write off the whole of the Italian nation? Not even 10 just men there? Goodness, what must you think of America, Britain, France, Australia, Germany etc. etc.

Not all Catholics are as "Spirit Filled" as you, my dear. Some believe life is a struggle between good and evil that they must constantly wage. That their "rebirth" needs sustaining through the Church and through a live of prayer, love and hope as well as faith. Not all Catholics believe Heaven is a done deal because Christ has invited them to walk with Him. Catholics believe we have to cooperate activity with the Holy Spirit, remain one with Christ and participate in the Church.

Catholics also believe that the state of society can corrupt and distort the reception of the message of the Gospel. That the Christian message has to be carefully preached and sensitive to local customs and world views.

What do you think? What should the Church do in 2012 about abortion? Pray? Take action? What?

The moral of Hong Xiuquan is that not all those with a translation of the bible in their hands and left to 'sola scriptura' and 'sola fide' actually discover the message. Afterall, he was a raving nutter. Dangerous words the Bible in the hands of those not properly prepared - especially the weak or strong willed.

And Popes have not stated they are God on earth! They have stated they are God's representative on earth. There is a difference.

11 April 2012 at 13:19  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

"You do not understand Catholicism at all and have constructed your own version of it.(I read, I See, I Observe) If it were as you present it, I would not be a member (Why Ernst is NOT as baptised card holding tiberian!)."

"Not all Catholics are as "Spirit Filled" as you, my dear. Some believe life is a struggle between good and evil that they must constantly wage. That their "rebirth" needs sustaining through the Church and through a live of prayer, love and hope as well as faith. Not all Catholics believe Heaven is a done deal because Christ has invited them to walk with Him. Catholics believe we have to cooperate activity with the Holy Spirit, remain one with Christ and participate in the Church. (Why Ernst is NOT as baptised card holding tiberian!)"

Ernst would rather say he believes that the state of institutionalised churches can corrupt and distort the reception of the message of the Gospel. That the Christian message has to be carefully preached and taught.

"The moral of Hong Xiuquan is that not all those with a translation of the bible in their hands actually discover the message" Well that hasn't stopped your church and it's Vicarious Ones' from completely distorting it's message and the havoc that followed and 'THEY' even said they did it under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Who are the nutter/s... Popes or Hong Xiuquan?

Your Church has been wrong for nearly 15 hundred years and it still don't get it!

There appears to be NO difference who those who justify God's Word for gaining earthly power, does there!

Ernsty , you naughty tiberian you.

11 April 2012 at 15:59  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

Just flim-flam on top of flim-flam. Will you answer my questionnow I have stated my position?

"Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?"

How do you preach and teach the Christian message carefully when you are telling people the Gospel is their's to understand without instruction once they receive the Holy Spirit?

It is you who is the courage-less ... big girls blouse ... (without ) ... a pair And the NHS cannot help.

You are Don Quixote, Snr, accompanied by your little trainee, Don Quixote, Jnr, who I expect will be along shortly.

11 April 2012 at 20:10  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Dude,

Sorry to butt in, but when children are involved... common sense has to be heard.

We bring with us wisdom of the sages. We see an event and explain to our children what is going on in the minds. An angry cop has had a bad day, that alcoholic is looking for happiness in all the wrong places.

You can tell them that getting angry helps no one, and like the wise Buddhists say, you do not need to carry your anger with you.

You protect their kingdom like a Jesus, telling them to do what the priests say, but not what they do.

There is no script of life to read off from, but when the moment of crisis arises, you release them again until they learn to release themselves.

OK. I'm done. carry on.

11 April 2012 at 20:23  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

kinderling

Interesting. Thank you.

11 April 2012 at 23:45  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"Will you answer my questionnow I have stated my position?" Why? you have'nt.Where?

"Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?" How exactly
has this benefited the RCC as the vast majority of atheists Ernst sees appear modern Irish RC's, who preach their views on telly or shows as if they were comedy's answer to Richard Dawkins??

How do you preach and teach the Christian message carefully when you are telling people the Gospel is their's to understand without instruction once they receive the Holy Spirit?"

What exactly is so offensive in the Gospel that you/it require/s an understanding of cultures and customs (other than attaching prerequisites for religiosity that is not required in the Holy Bible but added on by RCC and others)..They are loftier than any culture or custom and are even claimed as universal by atheists without God attached. Love thy Neighbour as thyself, being a good samaritan, respect for the elderly, to love our children, the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman etc. All unbelievers have to grapple with the existence of God and therefore His demands on us as His creation..This is the same for any nation!

Must get me some avatars..it appears fun and so self congratulatory, as Ernst just has to rely on his own arguments to stand on their own! Maybe worth considering?? Imagine the fun Ernst could have at your expense!

Ernsty my lad

12 April 2012 at 14:34  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

You really are obsessed with Catholicism. My questions and your answers are about Christianity yet you keep particularising it to Catholicism. Why?

So, I'll ask again:

"Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit? Does the early experiences of children predispose them towards or away from receiving faith?"

The examples of 'Catholic' Ireland and Italy are interesting. As is 'Protestant' America and Britain. These countries are increasingly aggressively secular and atheist or agnostic at best. This must surely weaken the Church's influence.

What I'm asking is whether this have an impact on the Holy Spirit's ability to reach people?

Did I say or even imply there is anything offensive in the Gospel? Again you are tilting at self constructed windmills!

Are you really saying to teach Christ and His message you need no sensitivity to existing cultural values and beliefs? That one can teach the basic doxology, Baptise and then hand out bibles?

12 April 2012 at 16:31  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo, in plain english

"You really are obsessed with Catholicism. My questions and your answers are about Christianity yet you keep particularising it to Catholicism. Why?" You state things from a RC perspective as if it is all there is..supremacy?. IT IS NOT!.

""Does the culture of a society, its values and beliefs, obstruct the work of the Holy Spirit?" If it's values are not God ordained, obviously as all flesh is sinful and spiritually dead to the things of God!

"The examples of 'Catholic' Ireland and Italy are interesting (The strongholds of R Cism?. How has your approach to their culture failed then?). As is 'Protestant' America and Britain. (Indeed, when faith runs cold and nobody knows why they believe as they refuse to devote time to God and His Word to see if they are true)"
"This must surely weaken the Church's influence. " Indeed they do!

"What I'm asking is whether this have an impact on the Holy Spirit's ability to reach people? "

Jesus said this: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me" (John 10:27).

John 10:3-5

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
When has this ever changed dodo, The Holy Spirit works despite our fleshy opposition and those who love Him hear the Shepherd calling and respond!

"Did I say or even imply there is anything offensive in the Gospel? Again you are tilting at self constructed windmills!" By your implication.

"Are you really saying to teach Christ and His message you need no sensitivity to existing cultural values and beliefs?(Dear boy, what on earth are you implying about sensitivity of values and beliefs, then? If Islam states that Christ is NOT Christ, what sensitivity can you apply that satisfies the claims of Christ and those of Islam???) That one can teach the basic doxology, Baptise and then hand out bibles? (Where are all these extras you are implying when the basic is not enough)"

Old Ernsty, young man.

13 April 2012 at 12:18  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

I give up!

You are so wrapped up in my Catholicism you cannot answer basic questions I ask without hearing a Catholic voice.

13 April 2012 at 22:30  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, 'Giving up'(with religion and the Catholic religious system )is your ONLY hope.

Christ is the ONLY ,WAY, TRUTH,AND LIFE.

15 April 2012 at 07:33  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len

And end up like you? No thank you!

15 April 2012 at 21:32  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older