Monday, April 09, 2012

Is France now the greatest threat to the eurozone?

This is a guest post by Zach Johnstone:

After months of uncertainty, vagueness and ineffectual diplomacy, a sort of quiet calm has descended upon the eurozone. Fears of an immediate collapse have been assuaged by the installation of technocratic governments in Italy and Greece, whilst the yields on Spanish, Italian and Irish sovereign debt have fallen to manageable – if not entirely ordinary – levels. Greece’s recent structural default has removed the sense of imminent catastrophe that has persistently plagued the vitality of global markets, whilst the recently-elected Prime Minister of Spain, Mariano Rajoy, has provided new hope in the ability of the eurozone’s fifth-largest economy to address its financial woes by implementing a comprehensive and much-needed austerity package.

It would be recklessly premature to pronounce that the worst is now over, but one could be forgiven for clinging to the hope that these developments offer. Forgoing democracy in the interest of economic stability is unpalatable to many – this author included – as is the inexorable flow of taxpayers’ money into bailout funds that ostensibly treat the symptoms of economic profligacy rather than addressing the causes. From a British perspective, however, an end to the eurozone crisis by any means represents the revitalisation of economic activity in our largest export market and, by extension, a flurry of activity that would prove invaluable during a period in which Britain teeters on the brink of a return to recession. This is a fact that would not be lost on those rating agencies which recently put the United Kingdom’s credit rating on “negative outlook” at least partially owing to the lack of demand for British goods on the Continent.

Yet in spite of the fresh optimism emanating from the eurozone, there remains a considerable threat to the tentative recovery that is currently under way: were France to suffer the same fate as its eurozone compatriots, the recent eurozone crisis would no longer be perceived as the eye of an economic tempest that is now slowly passing over, but as the calm before a storm so destructive as to be unparalleled by any economic quandary in recent history. Curiously, the plight of the French public finances has largely been shielded from press scrutiny; even when Standard and Poor’s stripped the nation of its triple-A credit rating in January, few – if any – alarm bells were sounded, and no major news outlet sought to consider the colossal implications of France failing to get to grips with its ailing finances.

It is therefore reassuring to find that the Economist has chosen to lead on this very subject in its latest issue. According to the magazine’s leading article this week, public spending in France as a percentage of GDP is, at 56%, higher than that of Sweden. Indeed, the Cour des Comptes has warned that unless “difficult decisions” are taken in the immediate future, public debt in France could reach 100% within three years. Were the French finances to reach such a state of disrepair, no number of carefully-orchestrated bailouts would be sufficient to restore order. The eurozone’s current afflictions would be dwarfed by the challenge of restoring order in a country with an economy almost four times as large as those of Greece, Ireland and Portugal combined.

With the first round of the French presidential election just a few weeks away, and with the First Secretary of the French Socialist Party, François Hollande, likely to take office, a study of his prescription for the French economic malaise makes for harrowing reading. Hollande cut his political teeth working on François Mitterrand’s failed 1974 presidential election bid, and possesses many of the same convictions as the man the French people knew as Tonton (‘uncle’). He has fought the presidential election on a platform that appears to be diametrically opposed to business and free market-inspired growth – one of his flagship policies is a 75% top rate of tax on income over one million euros, a proposal that has been met with derision by France’s plethora of multinational corporations such as AXA and L'Oréal. Underpinning his vision for France is a pledge to roll forward the frontiers of the state, irrespective of the implications this might have for France’s long-term economic health. Increases to the minimum wage and a “partial” retrenchment of Sarkozy’s proposal to increase the French retirement age from 60 to 62 are just two examples of a president-in-waiting who has formulated his electoral platform with no recourse to the fiscal imperatives currently facing France.

Perhaps still more worrying than Hollande’s statist vision, however, is the receptiveness of the French people to his counter-intuitive vision for France. Save for a fleeting resurgence in the polls by Sarkozy following the tragic shootings in Toulouse a few weeks ago (where matters pertaining to Islamic fundamentalism are concerned, the French tend to rally behind their Right-leaning president), the Socialist presidential candidate has enjoyed enormous support across France, with 61% of French voters backing his proposed ‘millionaire tax’. But even a Sarkozy victory would now be unlikely to ameliorate France’s continuing decline, for, in seeking to gain traction with the French electorate, the incumbent president has catapulted to the Left on a range of issues. Having already raised corporation tax, Sarkozy has also pledged to reprimand anyone seeking to leave France via the taxation system, as well as proposing that Internet companies are taxed on sales they make to French consumers.

At a time when private sector-fuelled growth represents France’s greatest hope of gaining a modicum of control over its economy – and avoiding a capitulation that would have grave repercussions across the world, nowhere more so than in the United Kingdom – French voters face a choice between an fervidly statist candidate with a contempt for private enterprise and an incumbent president doing everything he can to shed the perception that he is the ‘President of the Rich’. Regrettably, it is a choice that the French welcome; in spite of France’s economic prosperity in the modern era owing almost entirely to the globalised nature of the country’s diversified economy and the entrepreneurial vitality of those that head its many successful businesses, the French demonstrate an antipathy towards the free market that is almost entirely unique in the Western world.

But the French electorate’s successful pursuit of a Left-wing agenda is a Pyrrhic victory; whether Sarkozy holds on to power or Hollande takes his place, by focusing the entirety of the 2012 presidential election on persecuting the rich – with an occasional nod to social issues such as immigration and perceived Islamisation – and almost completely ignoring the need to rein in spending, France is setting itself up for disaster. The only thing that remains to be seen is how profoundly this will affect those nations for whom an affluent and innovative France is critical.


Blogger Nowhere man said...

Ruination, fast or slow?

Socialists = Fast

Centre Right = Slow

But ruination all the same.

The same can be said about the UK.

9 April 2012 at 12:54  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

"Il est un homme sage qui vit avec l'argent en banque, il est un sot qui meurt de cette façon."

As this proverb suggests, the French have an uneasy relationship with money.

9 April 2012 at 13:19  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Excellent news Zach. Part of the collapse of the EU involves the French going broke, and rioting as a result, what !

Good to see you in Freedom Today. The Freedom Association is a fine crowd of sensible people. One looks forward to a time when selection as a Conservative prospective parliamentary candidate is dependant on involvement in the organisation. Hopefully not long after Cameron is dragged outside Number 10’s garden and shot as a party traitor and EU collaborator, so to speak...

9 April 2012 at 14:00  
Blogger Hereward said...


The present lull in the Eurozone crisis is unlikely to last. You are, I think, a little behind the curve on Spain. It's regions are heavily in debt. Yields on Spanish bonds are starting to cause alarm again and may also tug Italian bond spreads upwards. France may eventually move centre stage due to its reckless bank exposure to these two economies never mind the considerable home grown economic overhang and escalating public debt levels.

The recent refinancing operation by the ECB has only succeeded in cementing bank and sovereign risk together. This has raised the stakes considerably. Austerity in the PIIGS will backfire because there will be less money spent on goods produced in France and Germany creating a recessionary spiral. Instead of British business using what little respite there currently is to breathe a sigh of relief, their efforts would be better spent getting new customers in the anglosphere and the rest of the world at large to counteract declining business from Europe.

I do not underestimate the political determination of the EU to further the goal of total union. They will stop at nothing to keep the project going. If there is no collateral for loans they will invent it. If they run out of cash they will print it. If the bank balance sheets are underweight they will expand them out of thin air. In short they will pillage not only the bank accounts of their own nationalised industries to stay alive but also screw down the wages of the proles and wipe out their savings through inflation rather than admit defeat. In this climate an orderly break up of the Eurozone is inconceivable. When everything finally falls apart it will be catastrophic. The longer they can keep going the worse the ultimate meltdown will be. The UK economy needs to start unwinding from the EU as a matter of self preservation.

9 April 2012 at 18:06  
Blogger martin sewell said...

Point of information:France has not had a balanced budget since 1974.

9 April 2012 at 18:10  
Blogger Alpha Draconis said...

"The only thing that remains to be seen is how profoundly this will affect those nations for whom an affluent and innovative France is critical."

That must be a small group of nations then. Who cares about France and the EU, who have always hated and derided the British? You British are better off out of the whole madhouse. You can trade with the other 3/4s which are NOT in the Eurozone. Let the Germans, the rulers of Europe pay for the bailouts.

9 April 2012 at 19:02  
Blogger Shacklefree said...

The problem is we are still talking politics. The ability of politicians and the media to talk in measured terms lulls people into the sense that the rot can be reversed and that we can by diligence and self-sufficiency ride the storm and still be in the saddle at the other end. The woes of our times are the result of the same causes that were recorded in the Old Testament i.e. people turning away from God’s law. Can we really believe that a world-wide lottery designed for the purpose of financial speculation (gambling) can possibly lead to financial stability? Here is what it says in Chapter 18 of Revelation:

2He cried out in a powerful voice, “Fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen! … The merchants of the earth have become rich from the power of her luxury.” 4Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you don't participate in her sins and suffer from her plagues. 5 For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God has remembered her crimes. … 8 For this reason her plagues of death, misery, and famine will come in a single day. … 9The kings of the earth, … will cry and mourn over her ... 10Frightened by her torture, they will stand far away and say, “How terrible, how terrible it is for that great city, the powerful city Babylon! For in one hour your judgment has come!” 11The merchants of the earth cry and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargo anymore ….” 15Frightened by her torture, the merchants of these wares who had become rich from her will stand far away. They will cry and mourn, 16saying, “How terrible, how terrible it is for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet and was adorned with gold, gems, and pearls! 17 For in one hour all this wealth has been destroyed!”

Babylon began to show its true colours in the 1929 stock market crash and we are still not listening even though the warnings have been clear and obvious. Some of us believe there is a force for good in this world epitomized by the Lord Jesus. By the same token we believe that there is a force for evil - deliberate, calculating and malevolent whose ambition is global death and destruction. All the political movements in modern times have tended towards more power in the hands of fewer and fewer people and that was most noticeable under communism. When are we going to wake up – satan is at the helm. The answer is not in political debate or policy but a return to the laws of God.

9 April 2012 at 19:25  
Blogger len said...

That Tower of Babel( the EU)is being manipulated and manoeuvred by those who have dreamed of re building it for Centuries.
As the Tower staggers and sways they rush in to prop up the unstable edifice.
And all this to the strains of the “Ode To Joy, the lyrics, by Friedrich von Schiller, concern the entering of the shrine of a pagan goddess and the uniting of all men in brotherhood, by the power of magic.

This is the ultimate challenge to the authority of God and I wonder exactly how long the building will continue?.

9 April 2012 at 19:43  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

Can I just remind everyone that the current economic meltdown is one hundred per cent, totally, absolutely and completely the product of the private sector and the massive, institutionalized professional incompetence of private business people, together with the utterly fallacious and self-serving ideology of the free market, the very things the poster seems so alarmed about having restricted by a leftist president.

The definition of madness is to keep doing what you've been doing and to expect a different result. I am no socialist, but after the shambles the business community has visited on us over the last four years, I think it's high time somebody waded into this so-called "free" market with a very big stick and started bringing it across some capitalist backsides.

Rich people paying tax is not a sin against God or a blasphemy against heaven. Incorporating yourself as a limited liability company does not excuse you from your obligations to country or society as too many business people think it does. Giving employment is not a contribution to your society, it is merely a means to your end of making money - the employment you provide is incidental and accordingly does you no particular credit. Business people really need to get that simple idea through their thick skulls and remember that their countries are STILL entitled to loyalty as of right, above and beyond any incidental benefit which their presence may provide. Paying reasonable tax is a good start.

9 April 2012 at 20:09  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Have you beeen drinking? That or it's time to come down from the mountain as the thin air is clearly going to your head.

Who is "they" you're talking about manipulating the Eu and trying to build a Tower of Babel they have dreamed about for centuries?

Besides, the "anthem" has no official words and, in any event, was written as a romantic poem, not to be taken literally. You do know Schiller was raised as a Lutheran?

9 April 2012 at 20:46  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. The Inspector suggests that Len has been overly influenced (...easily lead as he is...) by Atlas, whose absence of late thrills the Inspector...

(Off thread, am listening to BBC Radio 4 on solitary confinement in Louisiana's state penitentiary known as ‘Angola’. ALL prisoners there seem to innocent. Even the one’s that went on to murder a prison officer and have spent 40 years in solitary chokey. No change there then, what !)

9 April 2012 at 20:54  
Blogger St Bruno said...

To be quite honest I couldn't care a monkey's flee who wins in France's
election it's all a sham as the real masters of France sit in Brussels.
But I do hope Marine Le Pen gives them a scare.
Marine Le Pen's speech 16 March when she finally was allowed to
stand for election with English sub-titles. ( there is no error on the
clip just click on the screen)

My word is my bond!
But only if I can pay the interest.

When the bonds end, taxation increases with a vengeance and spitefulness.

The GDP is only part of the problem with all EU countries.
The big problems are eyewateringly enormous that even
Germany will have to tighten its belt and even money printing will become unfashionable.

Ten to the power sixteen used to be a figure in physics but is now used in economics.
Before long no EU country or the USofA will be able to pay off its debts. What will
happen then when default becomes headline news?

National bank debts! Fractional reserve banking! Dishonest usury!
Buy, buy stuff, tat, eat drink and be merry, put it on the credit card, tomorrow is another day.
Let the people we trust sort things out, like hell! Trust seems to be a forgotten word in the political
world whether left, right or centre just the same gang of vested interests and pyramid selling ponzi

Why should I feel sorry for politicians who have lead their countries
to rack and ruin and expect the ordinary men and women in the street to pick up the pieces,
as happened so many times before.

I read somewhere recently that economics is the science of 'greed and anxiety'
I am coming to the conclusion, in my aged years, that is about right.

9 April 2012 at 22:37  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Savings are madness. It’s gold I tells ye, gold. Anything else is doomed, doomed I tells ye...

9 April 2012 at 22:54  
Blogger Alpha Draconis said...


The Earth Union of Sovereign Star Republics national anthem is as follows:

"A union unbreakable of free republics,Humans joined together forever.
Long live the creation of the will of the peoples,
The united, mighty Earth Union!

Be glorified, our Motherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the friendship of the peoples!
Flag of the United Nations, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!

Through storms the sun of freedom has shined upon us,
And the great Merkosy has taught us faithfulness to the people,
To labour, and inspired us to great feats!

Be glorified, our motherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the happiness of the peoples!
Flag of the United Nations, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!

We brought our army to the battles.
We shall brave the despicable Alien invaders from the street!
In battles we shall decide the fate of generations,
We shall lead to the glory of the Motherland!

Be glorified, our Motherland, united and free!
The sure bulwark of the glory of the peoples!
Flag of the United Nations, Flag of the people,
Let it lead from victory to victory!"

9 April 2012 at 22:55  
Blogger anna anglican said...

"Is France the greatest threat to the Eurozone?"

Let's hope so!

9 April 2012 at 23:53  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


You been on the drink again, my reptilLian friend?

Last time, as I recall, your song was about a Fatherland.

In your time are nations sovereign and free or obliged to follow the combined will of a united nations body?

10 April 2012 at 01:27  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

In what manner does my absence thrill?

You can take the man out of The Roman Catholic Church, but you can't take the Roman Catholic Church out of the man.

10 April 2012 at 02:49  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

What a depressing thought Atlas S(unless it is French Catholicism,bien sur!)

10 April 2012 at 05:52  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, I don`t drink as a rule.

I desired to be constantly filled with the Spirit (Holy) though!.

Although Luther escaped the clutches of the Catholic religious system he(as Atlas wisely remarks) couldn`t entirely get Catholicism out of HIS system.)For example he remained indoctrinated into anti- semitism.Sounds like Schiller did too.The Pagan Goddess and child bit (sound familiar at all?)
Babylon plays a very important part in World History all man- made religions have their root in Babylon.
Well worth studying(if you have the courage to face the facts)

10 April 2012 at 07:34  
Blogger len said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10 April 2012 at 07:55  
Blogger len said...

All over the World you will find men building Towers(a la Babel)Pyramids, ziggurats,even Huge Cathedrals with immense steeples, to what aim(I hear you asking?.)Sometimes these 'Towers' are religious systems in which you 'arise' by a system of works getting 'ever closer' to God.

The irony is that God came down to us Calvary.

The concept of' rising to meet God' is as old as time itself,
"I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."(Isaiah 14:144)

And man was tempted to follow.

"You can be as gods"

There are those in the 'new age'movement who believe they are 'gods'and many have entered into this satanic ' old age'lie!.
The there are those who science has become their 'god'and they use science and' reason 'as their 'belief system '

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:1-5)

The whole World is under this 'satanic spell' and the only way for release from it is through prayer and revelation from God(the God Of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) Himself!.

10 April 2012 at 07:59  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Corrigan @ 20.09, firstly many thanks from this communicant for your beautifully succinct response to David B @ 11.26/06. It’s always a joy to see an atheist quietly dissected.

But your statement at 20.09 cannot go unanswered, ‘Can I just remind everyone that the current economic meltdown is one hundred per cent, totally, absolutely and completely the product of the private sector and the massive, institutionalized professional incompetence of private business people, together with the utterly fallacious and self-serving ideology of the free market, the very things the poster seems so alarmed about having restricted by a leftist president.’

Rubbish. To see why this is so you need to go higher in the national chain of command. It is the political process which dictates the scope of both private and public sector economic activity. You will appreciate that if the private sector did not exist at all, the blame for economic disaster would be solely on the public sector, and that was called Communism. Of course, the public sector today is just that part of the economy where goods and services are provided by State owned enterprises and agencies. In the case of the post-war UK economy, the State owned enterprises were captured by the workforce in the form of the trade union movement. Acting in self-interest, the trade unions naturally corrupted the system so that they were the main beneficiaries and the non-union tax-payers and members of the electorate were screwed. Call that ‘massive, institutionalized professional incompetence’ on the part of the political elite. Thatcher’s genius was to understand this problem and to return control of the economy to the broader electorate, on the assumption they would welcome the privilege with which they had been bestowed. Thatcher understood the risk minimization inherent in the private sector, where economic decision making is dispersed over a multitude of different actors. By contrast, the public sector concentrates management risk by following the dictates of the government who follow the opinions of focus groups. Hopeless.

So when things go awry in the private sector it is invariably because of a political influence. The reason for this is simple, private capital is risk averse, whereas State capital is just other people’s money and a different sense of responsibility prevails.

In a liberal democracy, running a deficit until the point of national bankruptcy is a political decision. At any point the electorate can say ‘no’. Bear in mind that running a deficit is just a process by which future tax revenues are spent in advance. The money for this exercise in instant gratification is borrowed, either domestically which impoverishes British pensioners in the event of default, or internationally which may impoverish global investors. The demographics of the UK and just about every other Western democracy do not favour impoverishment of the elderly as there will soon be more voters over 60 than there are children. This retired Baby-Boomer cohort will not be fleeced in silence, and nor will their thinking children wish to see their parents impoverished.

Your knowledge of theology is undoubtedly very deep. Your ideological antipathy to the private sector perplexes. Understanding the risks inherent in public sector dominance of an economy and deficit finance seems well within your capacity. If France chooses the ‘left-wing’ option, the French electorate will have simply voted for a future as an economic and political dependency of Germany.

10 April 2012 at 11:43  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len said ...
"Babylon plays a very important part in World History all man- made religions have their root in Babylon."

Yes, but neither Judaism nor Christianity are man made and the Catholic Church was established by Christ.

And, deary me, anything wrong with the theology of the protestant reformers naturally comes from Catholicism!

So are you saying the Holy Spirit is not 100% reliable afterall and has to negotiate His way through man made concepts? Interesting disclosure.

Luther was human, with human failings. So too are all theologians and Pope's. That's why Church doctrine has evolved slowly and cautiously and through a process of discussion and prayerful reflection under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Just as it was meant to be.

10 April 2012 at 11:56  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Atlas said ...
"You can take the man out of The Roman Catholic Church, but you can't take the Roman Catholic Church out of the man."

Ce point de vue est très sure!

Catholicism operates at two levels. First, it teaches values and principles for behviour and an outlook on life and the world. Second, it fosters a love of Christ and His message. In an ideal world both remain integrated. Alas, this is not always so.

I celebrate the stickability of Catholicism.

10 April 2012 at 12:18  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...


You're assuming I buy into the "public sector good, private sector bad" mantra of old socialism; I don't, but neither do I accept the Thatcherite corollory of "private good, public bad". Neither is axiomatic. A well run society has a good mixture of public and private, but what you've described is the way the private sector is SUPPOSED to run, not the way it actually does.

You may be quite correct about the colonization of the economy by the union movement after the war, but exactly the same applies to the private sector since Thatcher. Political life in Europe in general has collapsed and because of its electoral system, the process is nowhere more advanced than Britain. All politicians - Labour and Tory alike, there is no distinction - are professional, career politicians. They come straight out of university at 22, go straight to work for a think-tank or an MP and then into parliament a few years later when a safe seat becomes available and they've made the requisite connections.

These people are essentially supermarket managers,scanning the till rolls at the end of each day's trading, seeing what's selling and then stocking the political shelves with that product next morning. Besides the obvious problem of never having had a life, and consequently never having developed and vision of society, they are thus wide open to a very legal form of corruption.

You see, they only envisage half their working lives in the political supermarket; the rest they see in head office or on the board, and the board isn't in Westminster, it's in the City of London. And if you want to pick up that slew of directorships and consultancies you feel is your entitlement, you must do the right thing by the people who can hand them out while you still hold political office. Those people are not trade union barons, they're the elite of the private sector, and "the right thing" is exactly what's been going on in the last thirty years - namely, giving private business whatever it wants. Low tax? No problem. Footloose capital regulations? Consider it done. Light touch regs in the City? Way ahead of you, chaps.

What I'm describing is exactly the kind of colonization of political life which you rail about from the trade unions of yesteryear, but is happening now, today, currently between politics and business, and much more covertly and dangerously than the open association with unions of the past.

Business people (at the very top, at least) are now in exactly the position that the state sector was years ago - there is no risk, just like the old state sector. The taxpayer can be relied upon to bail out the fat cats if - and when - they get it monumentally wrong. If it was wrong for the unions, surely it is much more wrong for people who make a sickening piety of being so-called "risk-takers"?

10 April 2012 at 12:25  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Corrigan, I agree with many of your points! However there's nothing wrong with Government taking adice from the private sector about economic policy. Do you want government to remain aloof from reality? After all, the private sector is at the coal face. There is no doubting the influence of the City of London, but what is the alternative? The old heavy engineering base of the economy was overtaken by lower cost East European and Asian economies years ago. Britain is fortunate that English has become the world's second language and that the commercial practices of the British Empire have become the international standard. The City of London simply expoits this good fortune. Makes sense to me.

10 April 2012 at 13:02  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, The 'stickability' of Catholicism?.
You should be very wary of things that stick to you!

And arere you REALLY saying that the Popes are fallible human beings and we shouldn`t take their word as Gospel?.

10 April 2012 at 17:41  
Blogger Matthew Hanson said...

Excellent and succinct insight, Zach.

The fact that this debate is, at best, on the periphery of the debate between candidates and the electorate is very alarming for all with an interest in the economies of the eurozone (of those, the UK). Testament to this ignorance is the (rising) popularity of communist candidate Melenchon, who proposes a 100% tax on incomes on incomes over €360 000. Although his election is inconceivable, it epitomises the aforementioned naivety of those managing France's public finances, especially when coupled with the policies proposed by Hollande (and even Sarko, to a certain extent), that you alluded to.

Interesting to see the developments.

Again, great analysis.

10 April 2012 at 19:55  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


Of course Popes when not exercising the authority of St Peter are fallible human beings - they commit sin too. Shock, horror!

10 April 2012 at 22:56  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, as the Popes never had the 'authority of Peter' we should regard them all as' fallible human beings' unworthy of any position at all.
Jesus also called Peter 'Satan 'are you claiming that 'authority' too?.

11 April 2012 at 07:46  
Blogger len said...

Dodo ,When Simon Magus (Simon the Magician) was rejected by the disciples because of wanting to grasp the Power of God for Himself he went to Rome and founded a 'religion' of his own. Simon Magus was regarded as a 'god' by those in Rome and they also erected a statue to him!.

We find in Schaff's History of the Church a reference to this Simon Magus. He says: "The author, or first representative of this baptized HEATHENISM, according to the uniform testimony of Christian antiquity, is Simon Magus, who unquestionably adulterated Christianity with pagan ideas and practices, and gave himself out, in a pantheistic style for an emanation of God" (Apostolic Christianity), Vol. 2, p. 566).

11 April 2012 at 08:31  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


Back to Magus are we and you're fanciful ideas about him and the Bishop of Rome, I see. Not more tales of magic chairs, I hope!

But your point is? This is a reference to the heresy of Gnosticism that the early Church had to contend with through the exercise of Apostolic authority.

The source for " ... the uniform testimony of Christian antiquity" is not given and is pretty scant; you do know that?

The writings of Justin Martyr and Irenaeus are not necessarily accurate history. And there are significant questions too about the statue. It is the 'Myth of Simon and Helen' that became the center of Simonian gnostic doctrine.

By the way, I believe the section you reference is in Volume 1, Chp 111.

11 April 2012 at 12:55  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, apostolic succession?.

The pagan priests of the mystery religions were called PATORS or PETERS. They had 'the power' to interpret the heathen mysteries. This is further brought out by Bunson in his Hieroglyph, page 545, where he shows that the Egyptians -- as The Bible also indicates -- called their "interpreters" or priests: PETR, that is, PETER.
Notice some references to these sacred PETRAS found throughout the pagan world.
At the temple of Delphi in Greece, the chief object in the ritual was the PETRA (Pausanius, Bk. 10). At the Acropolis in Athens, Euripides tells us, the niches which held the idols were called the PETRAE (verse 935). It is well known that even the sacred book which was used in the celebration of the Eleusinian mysteries, was entitled "Book PETROMA," PETER-ROMA -- PETER'S BOOK (see Potter's Antiquities, vol. 1, p. 356). Remember that the pagan temples were also called after the PETERS. The temple at Elis in Greece was called PETRON Lycophron, verse 159). Pytho at Delphi was called PETRAessa (Olymp. Ode 6). The oracle temple dedicated to Apollo in Asia Minor was called the PATARA and the oracle there was called PATAReus ("Eus" means "person who, one") -- (Lempriere's Classical Dictionary, p. 438). Also PATRAE -- an ancient town where DIANA had a temple (p. 438), and the oracle in Achaia was called PATRA (Jones, Proper Names of the Old Testament, p. 296).
Examples are too numerous to mention, but this should be enough to show that the name PETER, or its variants, figured very high in every phase of pagan worship. These PETER stones and temples were found all over the ancient world. "There is in the history of every oracular temple some legend about a stone; some reference to the word PETRA" (Bryant, p. 362). The world and history is littered with many example of the term PETER used as a title for a god.

Apostolic Succession is based upon the wrong Simon Peter. The Simon Magus Peter that is in fact an impostor and self-serving pagan high priest is the true beginning of the Roman Catholic Church. One of the main pillars of the Roman Catholic Church is the idea of that Apostolic succession is the foundation of the Catholic Church. This is false and is based upon the wrong Peter. This is their claim to power and they claim makes them the true church. The only thing wrong with this idea is they have the wrong Simon Peter and it is leading many from the truth of God word.

You only have to look at the pagan beliefs and customs to see that these were incorporated into the 'Universal Church'.

11 April 2012 at 13:43  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, here is a link if you want to know the truth about Simon Magus and his connection to the 'Universal Church'( I assume that the truth is as important to you as it is to me? )

11 April 2012 at 18:48  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


Oh, please!

Riddled with assumptions and misrepresentations. For goodness sake, do read some authentic history! And the way the Gospels are 'reimagined' is truly astonishing. And, of course, only the authors understand the genuine intent snd only they have the real translation!

My considered advice - delete the link from your browser.

11 April 2012 at 21:54  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


What Acts actually says:

"And when Simon saw, that by the imposition of the hands of the apostles, the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying: Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I shall lay my hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said to him: Keep thy money to thyself, to perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Thou hast no part nor lot in this matter. For thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Do penance therefore for this thy wickedness; and pray to God, that perhaps this thought of thy heart may be forgiven thee. For I see thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bonds of iniquity. Then Simon answering, said: Pray you for me to the Lord, that none of these things which you have spoken may come upon me."

11 April 2012 at 22:07  
Blogger len said...

Dodo. You cannot delete the truth !.
Sweeping the truth' underneath the
carpet' may make it disappear in your eyes but the truth remains.
Isaiah wrote, "Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner-stone, a sure foundation." (Is. 28:16) Peter and every other son of Adam has failed when tested. Christ is the only one ever born of woman that has withstood every temptation, and is a "tried stone," fit to be the chief corner-stone in the great church of God.

Christ has not placed any mortal man as the foundation of His church. Sad would have been the condition of the church if it had been built upon Peter; for only a short time after he made the above confession, his heart was so full of evil and wrong conclusions that, as the record states, Christ said to him, "Get thee behind Me, Satan:thou art an offense unto Me:for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." (Matt. 16:23)

(Which exactly describes the Catholic Religious system)

15 April 2012 at 07:29  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...


I thought we were discussing the historical accuracy of your claims about Simon Magnus! As shown, it is fanciful nonsense.

And now you attack St Peter, making a leap from him wanting to protect Jesus from Calvary, ommiting everything in between, to a conclusion about the Church!

How very sad and how hopeless.

15 April 2012 at 21:38  

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