Wednesday, April 18, 2012

Norwich City Council bans Norwich Reformed Church for preaching ‘hate’



Dr Alan Clifford has been renting the Eaton Park Community Centre, a council-run building in Norwich, for his church’s services of worship for nigh on 20 years. There has never been a problem. His church has also held a weekly outreach bookstall for the past four years on the council-owned Hay Hill site. There has never been a problem.

Until now.

Following a single complaint (yes, just one; that’s all it takes) that the church’s pastor, Dr Clifford, is producing ‘hate-motivated’ literature against Islam, the Norwich Reformed Church has been banned from both the Community Centre and Hay Hill. Norfolk Police have confirmed that no crime has been committed, but the Council has banned the church regardless for ‘equality’ reasons.

Now, some may take issue with Dr Clifford’s rather robust message. His Grace happens to believe that talking about Muslims en masse as a uniform and cohesive religio-political group is not only unhelpful; it is theologically ignorant and politically naïve. Much better to talk about certain schools of Islam, for centuries of scholarship bears testimony to the mutability and multiplicity of the Islamic faith, which is as diverse and disparate as the myriad of Christian denominations. The specific contemporary problem is the ascendancy and dominance of a particular interpretation of Islam – the Wahhabi strain – which seeks to agitate, occupy, subjugate, inculcate and deny liberty and justice to all, Muslim or not.

The complaint against Dr Clifford is centred upon a leaflet he wrote a decade ago, entitled Why Not Islam, from which the above YouTube video draws heavily. Doubtless the tract is distributed (along with others) from the bookstall on Hay Hill.

But since the police have confirmed that no crime has been or is being committed in the propagation of this message, Norwich City Council have taken it upon themselves to determine the acceptability of the Norwich Reformed Church’s orthodoxy. And, having sat in judgment, the Council have denied the church their freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of association and freedom of religion. The Council’s secret inquisition has judged that Dr Clifford is motivated by ‘hate’, and that’s the end of the matter.

A Council spokesman explained that they have ‘a duty to foster good relations between people of all backgrounds and religions’. But, once again, it is the Christians who are denied their liberties: good relations are fostered for all except the followers of Christ. Of course, one man’s truth is another man’s offence. But that’s life. Being able to offend is one of the foundations of liberty. Freedom of speech must be tolerated, and everyone living in the United Kingdom must accept that they may be insulted about their own beliefs, or indeed be offended, and that is something which they must simply endure, not least because some suffer fates far worse.

What’s the point of being a Member of the European Parliament if you can’t stand up and denounce the Pope as antichrist? What is the point of being Pope if you can’t tell gays they suffer from an ‘objective disorder’? Why would you want to open a hotel if you can’t call Mohammed a terrorist or paedophile or rail at the oppression of hijab-wearing women? Why would you want to stand in Hyde Park Corner if you can’t call Scientology a cult, or open a café if you can’t tell gays they’re going to hell for their abomination?

It may not be very Christian in the PC christology of perpetual tolerance to say any of these things, but it ought not to be illegal to do so. Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 outlaws ‘threatening, abusive or insulting’ words or behaviour if they are likely to cause ‘harassment, alarm or distress’. This is increasingly being used to get the police to arrest and silence Christian street preachers, prosecute hotel owners for chatting about their faith with a Muslim hotel guest (no, they didn’t use the 't' or ‘p’ words), and to prosecute a teenager for calling a religious cult, err... a cult. And now a county council is closing down a church which has worshipped freely for 20 years, because it doesn't preach a gospel which is to the Council's liking.

This is the New Inquisition: the demand for theological orthodoxy has given way to prohibition of ‘feeling insulted’. And you might be next. Indeed, as His Grace has previously observed, this blog may well be closed down because someone (just one) complains to the police that religio-political polemic makes them feel uncomfortable and causes them distress; that they feel ‘insulted’, despite His Grace’s best efforts ‘to foster good relations between people of all backgrounds and religions’. This blog is, after all, a public space and His Grace is publishing alarming material. He probably not infrequently falls foul of equality and diversity demands, or transgresses the bounds of acceptability for those of other faiths or ‘disordered’(© Benedict XVI) sexual proclivities. His Grace never means to insult or cause distress, but the intention or motive is irrelevant: if the beholder feels offended, His Grace may be reported to the police under Section 5 of the Public Order Act, and they are obliged to investigate.

And now, if they determine that no crime has been committed, you can rely upon some jobsworth from bureaucratic officialdom to override the law and mete out their own brand of summary justice, with no indictments, no right of appeal, no juries, and no witnesses. This blog does not agree with all of Dr Clifford’s message, but, by God, it stands foursquare with him against the misuse and abuse of power by Norwich City Council.

176 Comments:

Blogger Albert said...

Meanwhile the Government has had to spend £1.5M on benefits and costs it has tried to deport Mr Qatada (who is still going to be knocking around, at our expense) for the next year apparently.

18 April 2012 at 09:50  
Blogger Nowhere man said...

I think I may have to leave this country.

Seriously.

We are in the grip of a new fascism. I never thought that I would have to live in fear of arrest, persecution and confiscation for committing "thought and speech crimes".

Now I understand what what my ancestors suffered during the Penal Years.

18 April 2012 at 10:17  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Relax Your Grace, it’s not as black as you paint it. This case is merely one of landlord’s prerogative. It would be an outrage indeed if a property owner did not have the right to deny his property to an organisation he felt uncomfortable with. Best save your indignation for when a fellow is silenced in his own place...

18 April 2012 at 10:17  
Blogger non mouse said...

In Principio Erat Verbum, Your Grace.

But, as Your Grace's last two threads confirm, out here on this remote bit of rock, somewhere in the Universe, hubristic morons decree that their words alone are law; no longer may the People 'read, learn, and inwardly digest' according to their needs.

So yesterday I took time out to see who runs the British [Museum] Library; who are those who purport to guard the invaluable words recorded for our Insular heritage? That is, here on this tiny bit of the global rock, in the place that used to be at the 'edge of the known world.' 'Twas the best place to be, I say.

After all- it's where our British ancestors produced repositories for the Word, like The Lindisfarne Gospels and, oh yes, that other book of St. Cuthbert's. The one they just acquired for 9M.

Guess what: "The Chairman and members of the Board are all appointed by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, with the exception of one member who is appointed by HM The Queen," (BL Website, "About Us). When I checked out the Trustees list for the BM, I found that those appointments fall under the remit of the PM.

Oh boy. princeps est....

18 April 2012 at 10:32  
Blogger non mouse said...

PS: My point is, of course, that the disease affects the entire British system; Norwich County Council is just another tumour in the infected body.

I say we must take back our entire country and place it under the authority of The Word. We need to do it while we still can.

Where is our King Alfred?

18 April 2012 at 10:44  
Blogger Preacher said...

This should really come as no surprise. The true Church of Jesus Christ has been involved in a spiritual, no holds barred War for 2000 years. We have inflicted on our enemy immense & terminal damage, but in the process we have also suffered & are still suffering casualties, but our captain has not lost a single one of His troops.

In the West , We have grown lazy & complacent in our faith, but the Lord has a way of waking us up & making us into good troops. Didn't He warn us "If they persecuted me, they will persecute you?.
I expect opposition when toiling at "Setting the captives free", what sort of jailer would Satan be if he stood back & handed us the keys?.

It's time that We stopped sitting back & waiting to collect our heavenly pensions. We need to sharpen the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God. Our Lord calls Warriors not Worriers. Kings & priests.
A rusty blunt Sword is no good. A surgeon needs a sharp scalpel to operate & remove malignancy.
Wake up friends, the hour is late but the battle is getting hot.

Bless you non mouse, we don't need King Alfred, We have King Jesus & His Word.

18 April 2012 at 11:15  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you, Mr. Preacher: and bless you also.

Indeed we have King Jesus and His Word. however, I think that is what King Alfred fought to retain: he restored Christian literacy, and he worked to place all British earthly powers knowingly under Christ's crown. That's what Guthrum (the Dane) had to agree to....

18 April 2012 at 11:25  
Blogger Preacher said...

Amen to that. Now if we are all prepared to emulate King Alfred.....

18 April 2012 at 11:29  
Blogger amaqula said...

Criticism of Islam is hate speech....criticism of Christianity is healthy. That is our Sharia compliant pretend 'secular' establishement for you. How evil and bigoted can you get. That's why I want a Catholic State instead of a pretend 'secular' state. Don't let them fool you.

18 April 2012 at 11:36  
Blogger Flossie said...

Thousands of Christians are being killed or driven from their homes in Muslim countries, yet we are not allowed to utter a word of criticism of Islam in our own land.

This country is becoming a truly scary place to live.

18 April 2012 at 11:42  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

His Grace happens to believe that talking about Muslims en masse as a uniform and cohesive religio-political group is not only unhelpful; it is theologically ignorant and politically naïve. Much better to talk about certain schools of Islam, for centuries of scholarship bears testimony to the mutability and multiplicity of the Islamic faith, which is as diverse and disparate as the myriad of Christian denominations. The specific contemporary problem is the ascendancy and dominance of a particular interpretation of Islam – the Wahhabi strain

I happen to agree with Your Grace.

I understand that Wahhabi is a form of Islam which has been most under Jesuit influence.

However exactly how much of this influence still exists, and how it manifests itself, is hard to even estimate, never mind know for sure.

This of course explains why there are as many diverse and disparate Muslim denominations, as there are Christian ones. This when all logic would dictate that religion above all else should have virtually no gray areas whatsoever, worthy of note.

The role of empire and that of the RCC in same, is central to not only an understanding of European and world History, but also a true understanding of the present.

Interesting is it not, that almost at exactly the same time International Irish Republican, and Unionist terrorism was supposedly officially ended, International pan Muslim Islamic, and western government sponsored terrorism officially took its place.

Please note that I do not seek to condemn all Christians or Roman Catholics for the crimes committed in the name of their religion. This any more then it would be crazy to blame Atheists for the myriad of serious crimes committed in the name of Stalins Soviet Union, or Tony Blairs, Gordon Browns and David Camerons United Kingdom.

If a specific rogue organization exists, and its name is known, why not use it?

18 April 2012 at 11:42  
Blogger Simon said...

Your Grace,

This forum thread appears to have been written by Dr. Clifford himself, and contains what appears to be a complete copy of the text of the leaflet in question: http://weareangry.co.uk/Discussion/tabid/822/aft/509/language/en-GB/Default.aspx Not the greatest piece of literature ever, but no more ignorant nor hateful than, say, The God Delusion.

As Dr. Clifford points out in that thread, the BCP Collect for Good Friday asks that God would "[h]ave mercy upon all Jews, Turks, infidels, and heretics; and take from them all ignorance, hardness of heart, and contempt of thy Word; and so fetch them home, blessed Lord, to thy flock, that they may be saved among the remnant of the true Israelites, and be made one fold under one shepherd, Jesus Christ". Maybe Norwich City Council thinks the British Parliament is also preaching hate, by stipulating this to be part of the official liturgy of the established church?

18 April 2012 at 11:55  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Good grief, the Catholics are behind it ! Well I never...

18 April 2012 at 12:00  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Atlas
I have told you it is and always has been the 'Jesuits' versus the 'Daimōnuits'. The names change from time to time, not the warriors. The principle realm of this warfare is on the spiritual level.

You need a sense of perspective.

18 April 2012 at 12:13  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

He needs a psychiatrist...

18 April 2012 at 12:24  
Blogger Jocelyn Knockersbury said...

Non-mouse - "I say we must take back our entire country and place it under the authority of The Word".

Who is WE in this sentence?

18 April 2012 at 12:30  
Blogger Albert said...

Atlas

The role of empire and that of the RCC in same

A bit of an odd thing to say on an Anglican blog, given that Anglicanism broke from the Catholic Church on the spurious grounds that England is an Empire, and that, as a result the Head of the CofE (the King) was really an Emperor.

18 April 2012 at 13:30  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

The Pamphlet in question can be found here:

http://nrchurch.limewebs.com/pdf/whynotislam.pdf

It is not a good apologetic. A good apologetic begins with respect. To read stuff like the 'moon god' canard is pretty disheartening. And I can see why this pamphlet would be problematic. Here is the first line:

Too many churchmen as well as politicians are gripped by cowardice in the face the Muslim menace.

Let's change just one word, and see how it reads.

Too many churchmen as well as politicians are gripped by cowardice in the face the Jewish menace.

I suspect that if a Muslim group was renting a public building and put out a pamphlet with the above statement that there wouldn't be public outcry over the group being banned.

I don't know the laws in the UK about censorship and access to public places, but this strikes me as a tempest in a teapot. A group does not have an intrinsic right to rent space. OIG is right when he says:

Best save your indignation for when a fellow is silenced in his own place...

carl

18 April 2012 at 13:35  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

I agree with The Inspector @ 10:17. It is right that the owner of a property should have some sort of sanction as to the activities that take place in it. The situation is equivalent to Paul's experience in and out of the synagogue at Thessalonica (Acts 17:1 ff).

Of course, we may all agree that Norwich County Council and its officials are idiots, but they are within their rights.

What seems to be absent from all the righteous outpourings of anger and outrage in this blog and many of its comments is the awareness that the way of the cross is the way of suffering and persecution, and that Jesus and the apostles did not invoke the power of the state when they found themselves under attack. Indeed, Jesus, 'when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously.'

18 April 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Preaching the faults of others does not tell people about his amazing Love.

1 Cor.2 Adjures us to exalt Christ only.

I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

18 April 2012 at 13:43  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

@carl jacobs 13:35, I share your misgivings about the contents of the pamphlet, but would take issue with you about your substitution of Jewish for Muslim. Jewishness is an ethnic category, but Muslim is religious. I know that Jewishness implies a religious position, but it was not religion that was sought by Goebells and his calipers, but ethnicity.

18 April 2012 at 13:46  
Blogger Jon said...

Once again, a building is confused with *being* a Church.

Maybe the modern day Church really does have a heart of stone? As an outsider, it certainly seems to me to beat harder for the tangible matters of architecture and "heritage", than it does for the rather more important issues which Jesus raised.

18 April 2012 at 13:59  
Blogger Jon said...

Flossie said:

"Thousands of Christians are being killed or driven from their homes in Muslim countries, yet we are not allowed to utter a word of criticism of Islam in our own land."

Sort of. Of course you can critique (and we should defend our rights to do so - his grace is right on this) but using the justification that some other countries are awful hell-holes so we should be one too is rather self- defeating! It sounds like you'd like to introduce some kind of sharia, but just have rules which favoured your beliefs instead of those of others!

We should be proud of the fact that we have a largely peaceful plurality and resist those who would impose uniformity for in the marketplace of ideas, this is surely socialism! (Unless a God materialises to do it, in which case, I guess he can call it what he likes!!)

18 April 2012 at 14:08  
Blogger dxt said...

Fortunately we live by the rule of law and any unworthy act must be judged and penalised.

18 April 2012 at 14:26  
Blogger IanCad said...

Thank you, Anabaptist & O.I.G. You've saved me the trouble of posting.

There's something screwy with the edit function.

18 April 2012 at 14:27  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

Norwich COuncil are ultra vires
It is to be hoped that the activities will continue in defiance of their diktat.
As an atheist, I think the preacher is wrong in his own beliefs, but correct about (some sections of) islam, as his Grace says.

This is so stupid as to be untrue, except we ARE dealing with politicians here, are we not?

18 April 2012 at 14:33  
Blogger Oswin said...

Whilst taking Your Grace's point that Doctor Clifford does not define his terms more accurately; failing to mention Salafism/Wahhabism (the fastest growing facet of Islam/the fastest growing religion in the world) he nonetheless covers the essentials, in lesser terms.

Some may argue his remedy; but I fail to see how anyone can denounce his overall assertion of muslim/Islamic/Wahhabist/Salafist intention; cut it how you will.

An excellent piece; and yes, one wonders how long before Your Grace is ''reported''; it is important indeed, to define one's terms accurately!

For future reference, I shall endeavour to do so myself: 'Wahhabist influenced muslims' etc. An awful bore, but a necessary one.

18 April 2012 at 14:55  
Blogger Unknown said...

Of course, Norwich Council could also prosecute Muslims for their intolerance of homosexuality and then everyone would be (un)happy! Sit back and watch the fun....

18 April 2012 at 16:12  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Some of the material on this blog is alarming but it is part of the reality which is never addressed by some, who like myself would be ignorant of these matters if it were not for this blog.

Some of the communicants are alarming as well and the possibility of meeting any of them in real life would be unlikely .That is why this site is interesting and an informative discussion forum.It is not for the faint hearted and if one is a female,one has to be prepared for the cut and thrust of the sword just like a man.

I have been lucky in being given support by very kind Anglican men who have not discriminated against me for either being a woman or because of my Catholic heritage.

I think this site is very important and I hope it will never be closed down because of a complaint.

18 April 2012 at 16:13  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

@Anabaptist ... Sorry, I still can't get my head around your position on Church & state. Jesus did indeed prophesy trials & persecution, but are you seriously suggesting that a state that is antipathetic towards to Christ & His Body is to be preferred to one that is sympathetic to Him? Do you not believe that a nation that is governed in accordance to Godly/Biblical precepts is of benefit to the whole of society?

Presumably we shouldn't be praying for, or lobbying for the liberty of those christians in parts of the world that face state sanctioned persecution?

18 April 2012 at 16:19  
Blogger David B said...

This is an issue where conservative Christians and liberal atheists like me can stand shoulder to shoulder.

Free speech is important, to Christian and atheist alike, and atheists and gays as well as Christians are being persecuted in some Islamic theocracies.

Serious persecution, that is, rather than worries about dress codes allowing the wearing of a cross, or for that matter a Flying Spaghetti Monster pendant.

We must all condemn all such persecution.

I don't always agree with HG, but I am wholehearted in my agreement in this case.

I further note that he puts his commitment to freedom of speech into practice, my fairly regular presence in his comments column being a testament to this.

David B

18 April 2012 at 16:22  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Jocelyn: "Non-mouse - "I say we must take back our entire country and place it under the authority of The Word".

Who is WE in this sentence?"

Well, quite. Looks like we have at least two types of religious fascism interested in claiming our shared space and controlling our lives for us.

18 April 2012 at 17:40  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

carl
Or indeed:

"Too many churchmen as well as politicians are gripped by cowardice in the face the Roman Catholic menace."

I mean, afterall, some bloggers, and not just Atlas believe the Church is the anbti-Christ hand in hand with Islam, plotting the take over of Europe and the world and making ready for the 'son of perdition'.

cressida de nova
I hope you feel the 'Catholic Boys' have been kind too. Or, does that go without saying?

I do agree some of the bloggers are most alarming - not the tedious ones though.

18 April 2012 at 17:40  
Blogger Anglican said...

Surely many people, including Christians, have felt offended and insulted by the words and actions of certain politicians, including members of the Government. Can these politicians not be sued for their offence in offending so many people?

18 April 2012 at 18:08  
Blogger Gladiatrix said...

All Dr Clifford has to do is have his solicitors write to the CEO, the Head of Legal Services and the Leader of Norwich City Council pointing out that the council is in breach of the Human Rights Act and if the decision is not rescinded immediately and the responsible officers ordered to apologise the council will be taken to judicial review.

They should back down fairly promptly, in the meantime a complaint should also be made to the Local Government Ombudsman alleging maladministration.

18 April 2012 at 18:24  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Inspector,
You wrote; right to deny his property to an organisation he felt uncomfortable with.
I would agree with you were it not now impossible to refuse services on a basis of race, sexual orientation or (religion). Not sure about that one. The hoteliers were banged up for refusing the Gay Boys. Why shouldn’t the City Council get the same treatment for refusing Christians?
But then I expect it's one rule for them and one for us.

18 April 2012 at 18:26  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Rebel Saint,
Well said @16;19
Do you not believe that a nation that is governed in accordance to Godly/Biblical precepts is of benefit to the whole of society?
This is the focus of my Blog and my comments. We can't trust the main parties to bring this to us as the leaders are not likely, as evidenced, to be in favour of true 'Biblical Integrity'.

18 April 2012 at 18:37  
Blogger Lillie said...

The answer is simple, Norwich Council must be banned - by virtue of the ballot box in two weeks' time. The people most vote out these fascists and fascists like them everywhere.

18 April 2012 at 18:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Mr I: "The hoteliers were banged up for refusing the Gay Boys."

They were not banged up. They were sued for damages in a County Court.

18 April 2012 at 18:58  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

DanJo
Same thing. They lost a lot of business and money as a result a of a cold calculating attack.

18 April 2012 at 19:08  
Blogger len said...

Any Christian preaching the Gospel as Jesus or Paul did will face enormous opposition.
This is only to be expected.
In fact opposition will come from both religious and secular sources, as it was then it is now!.
Time has not changed' human nature'despite all the advances in technology.
Biblical Christianity will probably be the only 'religion' that will be 'outlawed...... eventually.

In times of the Caesar`s all religions had to placed in the Pantheon and authorised by Caesar. Allegiance also had to be sworn to Caesar and any religions that Caesar did not authorise were banned. As the 'Roman Empire' is being revived in Europe this 'selection of religions' process seems highly likely and will seem 'a good idea' to many. Perhaps the wheel has /is turning full circle?.

18 April 2012 at 19:09  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr Integrity. The rights of property owners are vital if we are to maintain true freedom in the UK. It’s why the Inspector is hopping mad about the smoking ban. In a trading situation, you would expect an entrepreneur to maximise his profits by not excluding anyone. However, if he does choose to, for example the old pub ban on motorcyclists, then he takes a hit, and someone else picks up the trade.

The Inspector sees no objection to banning gay couples from the same room in hotels in the same way some establishments ban pets. Note the ‘same room’ condition. Though doubtless they will get round the ban by doing a bit of bed hopping during the night, perhaps with other gay guests there too. Well, we all know what these types are like, what !

18 April 2012 at 19:16  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Mr I: "Same thing. They lost a lot of business and money as a result a of a cold calculating attack."

It's hardly the same thing. They were sued in a civil action rather than prosecuted in criminal proceedings.

The judge said he was satisfied in the judgement that the claimants did not set up the defendents and the defendent's QC did not claim that they did in their case.

One might have thought they'd have benefited in business from the publicity in the case and from the sympathy Christians have expressed for their cause. Also, from memory, their business was already losing money.

The Christian Institute funded their QC as I recall, they certainly did for the appeal, and I believe they received donations to help pay the damages awarded to the claimants.

18 April 2012 at 19:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Gah, my spelling is getting worse: "defendants". As soon as I rereading it I see the mistakes.

18 April 2012 at 19:20  
Blogger beastie said...

Meanwhile, the Norwich and Norfolk Muslim Association have this to say about themselves -
"The NNMA works actively to promote tolerance and understanding. We are a member of the Norfolk County Council; this binds together Muslims from different backgrounds and strands of Islam. We enjoy excellent interfaith relations and the strength of these relationships has stood us all in good stead during the difficulties of recent years.

But then theres this list of Fatwas linked to their website at the bottom of the page


http://www.norwichmuslims.org.uk/index.php/hpage/45-community-centre-opening-soon

18 April 2012 at 19:23  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

The case is particularly interesting because of same-sex marriage. For all the talk by the religious of civil partnerships and civil marriage conferring the same legal rights, the hoteliers treated the two as different in the supply of goods and services. In fact, the case turned on it and there was a furore in some religious circles precisely because the judgement claimed civil partnerships and civil marriages were essentially the same in law in this area.

18 April 2012 at 19:26  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Beastie, that fatwah business there is like going back a thousand years, don’t you think. Allah knows best, my arse...

18 April 2012 at 19:39  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

What a lovely caring and concerned speech Dr Clifford gives in this clip, it's far from any hate speech. Thank you to His Grace for sharing it.

I can't get over the stupid things these little Hitlers in council offices do. Give them a bit of power and they abuse it. The head in the sand attitude has to stop, we do have a problem with the march of the Islamic faith here, and as a Christian country we must stand firm and promote our more civilised Christian values which have nourished and supported us for centuries over the barbarianism of Islam. Councils have to recognise this and support it.

18 April 2012 at 19:41  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len

"Biblical Christianity"

You really believe Christ can be contained within and only understood from written pages? The bible itself tells us this is not so!

18 April 2012 at 19:56  
Blogger len said...

Biblical Christianity .... relating to Biblical precepts.

Don`t quite understand your point Dodo?.

18 April 2012 at 20:39  
Blogger len said...

2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
' All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness',

Perhaps this will help you Dodo? Many men suffered Martyrdom to place the Bible in the hands of common men in common language.God`s Word is truth and will testify to and lead men to the Living Word Jesus Christ.

Surely you can see the relevance of that?.

18 April 2012 at 20:44  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len, you should put your books down, and get out into the world. The spirit is very much alive in the hearts of men out there...

18 April 2012 at 20:51  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len
And countless generations of dedicated men spent their lives copying the sacred texts and preserving them. There was a Bible in every parish, chained because of their great value. It was this, along with paintings, hymns and preaching that spread the Word of God anongst the uneducated. This kept the Gospel alive during Europe's Dark Ages. There were authorised English texts before the protestants too.

"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written."

18 April 2012 at 21:04  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ps
And your quote was written well before the New Testament Gopels. God's precepts are written on the hearts of men as well as in scripture. Nature shouts them!

18 April 2012 at 21:05  
Blogger Shacklefree said...

Atlas says "I understand that Wahhabi is a form of Islam which has been most under Jesuit influence."

Unbelievable, but Atlas seems to have swallowed his indoctrination. Don't worry Atlas, I won't be asking His Grace to ban you for your hate speech but I do think that the people of this country should start giving the Muslims a taste of their own medicine. If the banning or Dr Clifford is possible we should be easily able to ban hundreds of mosques.

18 April 2012 at 21:09  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Shacklefree,
Nice thought but I understood that we had to abandon the concept of an eye for an eye.

18 April 2012 at 21:36  
Blogger outsider said...

There are many, possibly rather too many Christian churches in Norwich, any of which could provide a space for Dr Clifford's theologically somewhat recherche congregation to conduct services. I wonder if any will.

18 April 2012 at 23:33  
Blogger J Womack, Esq. said...

Really? The landlord is the local government, taxsuppprted by I am sure at least some of the parishioners. So who actually owns the space? That's right: the public. Council is just management of a public property. If it were a mosque who had an imam printing pamphlets about the horrors of the Crusades and Inquisition being shut down for "hate", you would never hear the end of how government is persecuting a religion.

19 April 2012 at 01:36  
Blogger J Womack, Esq. said...

I disagree. I think if it were a Muslim tract warning about a Christian (Jesuit, Catholic, Anglican, Mennonite, whatever variant you like) menace, and a council tossed them out on their ear after 1 complaint, it would be all you heard about on the news.

19 April 2012 at 01:43  
Blogger J Womack, Esq. said...

I agree that a private business owner should have the right. But the government is not a private business owner.

19 April 2012 at 01:50  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

DODO 17:40

Between the three Catholics
You, Albert and Inspector.I have been called a big mouth silly cow,
unhinged and the town slut.

So,no.. I don't include the 'Catholic Boys' in the kindly group and never had any expectations of them treating me any differently than they have.

At school none of my friends wanted to go out with Catholic boys and we all ended up marrying
'out'.There was a reson for this.

19 April 2012 at 04:41  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

J Womack:"I agree that a private business owner should have the right. But the government is not a private business owner."

I think that's part of the problem. Local government is beholden to the local tax-payers and, obviously, to the law [1] which sets out its competencies. By observation, it often seems obsessed with equality of access and being seen to be fair to all its local citizens as it acts on their collective behalf with associated duties to them.

[1] Which is changing.

19 April 2012 at 06:41  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova
Your poetic disposition makes you way too sensitive. I can only answer for myself and do not believe I called you the "town slut"! I may have suggested you were dangerous. And I recollect defending you when you were called a "silly cow".

It's a shame you missed out on Catholic Boys in your teens. I can assure you we were loyal, respectful companions who always treated our girlfriends as ladies. I remember giving one of my early girlfriends my last Malteser -a selfless act no Protestant Boy would ever do.

19 April 2012 at 09:06  
Blogger Peter Jackson said...

YG,
A technical point. The text of youre excellent blog is now to extreme left of my screen, another millimetre and I shall lose the first word of every line. I wonder if I am alone in this, or are the forces of darkness at work generally?

19 April 2012 at 09:29  
Blogger Hereward said...

Peter@09:29

There is a troublesome little demon called zoom % which lurks in internet browsers. If he is set to 100% all text should be visible. If he has become inflated to 125% the text moves far left. He might be the culprit.

19 April 2012 at 10:15  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"There was a Bible in every parish, chained because of their great value.(BUT useless to the common man at large as it was in a foreign language!) It was this, along with paintings, hymns and preaching that spread the Word of God anongst the uneducated. Utter nonsense..The hymns were in latin and were of a maudlin morbidity of superficial sentiment and preaching of such a shallow nature it hardly brought men to comprehend their condition before God and their need of a Saviour who could save to the uttermost, who only needed to be believed upon for a man/woman to be made ALIVE)"

"There were authorised English texts before the protestants too."

OUTRAGEOUS LIES!

Aldhelm, Bishop of Sherborne supposedly translated the Psalms in to Old English in the 7th Century not the whole bible..myth!. However there is no surviving original from this manuscript or from the legend that Alfred the Great had the Bible translated into English in the 9th century, as only portions of a document remain and it is not known if the entire bible was translated or just certain passages.

The first hand-written English language Bible manuscripts were produced in the 1380's AD by John Wycliffe, an Oxford professor, scholar, and theologian.

Wycliffe, (also spelled “Wycliff” & “Wyclif”), was well-known throughout Europe for his opposition to the teaching of the organised Church, which he believed to be contrary to the Bible's doctrine . With the help of his followers, called the Lollards, and his assistant Purvey, and many other faithful scribes, Wycliffe produced dozens of English language manuscript copies of the scriptures. They were translated out of the Latin Vulgate, WHICH WAS THE ONLY SOURCE TEXT available to Wycliffe.
The Pope was so infuriated by his teachings and his translation of the Bible into English, that 44 years after Wycliffe had died, he ordered the bones to be dug-up, crushed, and scattered in the river!

It appears it was not authorised by Rome then, was it.

If I leave a Mandarin Bible on a pulpit in all churches, then what use is this to an english speaking congregation. Now think LATIN!!!.

Ernst

19 April 2012 at 11:18  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Latin was the language of the educated, numpty. The common man could not read until the Catholic Church opened schools.

Excuse me! Lies!

Toward the end of the 7th century, the Venerable Bede began a translation of scripture into Old English. Aldhelm (c. 639–709) translated the complete Book of Psalms and large portions of other scriptures into Old English.

In the 10th century an Old English translation of the Gospels was made in the Lindisfarne Gospels: a word-for-word gloss inserted between the lines of the Latin text by Aldred, Provost of Chester-le-Street. This is the oldest extant translation of the Gospels into the English language.

The Wessex Gospels are a full translation of the four gospels into a West Saxon dialect of Old English. Produced in approximately 990, they are the first translation of all four gospels into English without the Latin text.

In the 11th century, Abbot Ælfric translated much of the Old Testament into Old English. The Old English Hexateuch is an illuminated manuscript of the first six books of the Old Testament. The Old English Heptateuch is a version without lavish illustrations but including a translation of the Book of Judges.

There was no plot to deprive man of the word of God. It was a judicious care that wild, inaccurate translations did not mislead the uneducated and unschooled.

Prophetic, if you ask me, in the light of the current confusion amongst protestants over scripture and the rows over individual words!

And who are you to cast aspirtions on the early missionaries and monks who brought God's word to these islands? You should read thr nonsensical and garbled 'sermons' you post.

19 April 2012 at 13:36  
Blogger Peter Jackson said...

Hereward@10.15
Thank you. And how does one exorcise this demon?

19 April 2012 at 15:11  
Blogger Hereward said...

Peter@15:11
In Internet Explorer you hold down the Ctrl key and press the zero key.

If you use a different browser the zoom control should be somewhere in the 'tools' function.

19 April 2012 at 17:05  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Cressida, Inspector can see you have the hump, but can’t understand why ! But it’s the ladies way of course. A call for attention, usually…

Your ‘little woman’ contributions are invaluable and enlightening. He does read them you know. Not straight-away but if he has some time later on he could do. Might take a day or two occasionally. But read them he does, probably…

Keep it up old hen…

19 April 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger len said...

Cressida , the 'Catholic boys' seem to be behaving exactly as such.
Insulting their women folk seem to be a pastime they cannot resist. I expect if you married one(perish the thought) you would have to walk five paces behind them.?
They (Catholic boys) seem to be stuck in some sort of' dark ages' time warp?.

19 April 2012 at 19:18  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector
'Old hen'!

I say old chap, not a terribly flattering expression. You'll get us Catholics a bad reeputation with the ladies. Having the homosexuals in alliance with the protestants is bad enough without driving anyone else the way of their way.

Besides, she raises some valid points - in an ever so slightly unhinged way, of course, but nevertheless valid.

19 April 2012 at 19:21  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo The word hen is used as a term of endearment for the female. It’s a very north British thing incidentally, you must have come across it yourself. One is sure Oswin will agree when he’s around. Cressida is already Catholic intolerant, so don’t heap any blame on this man. Oh look, there’s Len being an arse. Hello Len, nice day, what !

19 April 2012 at 19:49  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector
Yes, I hear it alot in Scotland. But old hen? Call her a chick; she might prefer it.

She's an admirer of Catholicism, just a little bit confused, that's all. Intuitively Catholic, I think, just not comfortable with some of its teachings.

I told you that weasel len would try to take advantage, the swine!

19 April 2012 at 20:12  
Blogger Alpha Draconis said...

Your Grace,

The Vicar could hold his Church in the houses of her members? Although it is a disgrace that freedom of expression is no longer allowed, the British are sleep walking into a dictatorship!

Take comfort from our own Holy Word (BOOK OF THE DRAGON) :

"Glorious are the choosen Prophets of the Gods, who lead us to salvation, who did fight the evil that would doom us all to mortal sin. Did they not defeat the old spirits of Legion and cast them out to Nether Hell? And now, with the strength of our will, in the Glory of God and in the righteous path of the Prophets, they do call upon us to prevail against the corruption of all unbelievers and the evil of sin and death"

19 April 2012 at 22:44  
Blogger Alpha Draconis said...

And Your Grace,

More words of comfort from the Book of the Dragon (Chapter 12 vs 1-60) :

"Life and death, light and darkness, hope and despair, evil and good. The universe of the HWHY cometh and remainth in balance, but yet the Evil strived to overcome the harmony of the creator and did the serpent fight to become master of creation.

And Lo, unto good and evil battle was joined. The Space Time Rift was created, and on that day, the Gods were born of the creator,to bring us unto salvation and the path of the light.

Lo, therefore the evil moved the hatred of those who strayed from the true path festered and bloomed in the dark corners of Nether Hell to which they have been cast! And consumed by this hatred, they poisoned all they touched, bringing death, darkness and despair. And the souls of their victims knew no peace, until the Gods send their Emissary, who came and whispered to them: ‘Sleep, for the end draws near!’

And it shall come to pass that on that day all will rejoice, especially the faithful, and look unto the day when the Gods come and will lay them low.

When the Evil came to Alpha Draconis, the Prophet Malikwe and the last of the mind dreamers did fight unto this evil and drove the last of serpents minions from Draconis; but lo and behold the evil doth survive in the heavenly realms to prey upon the people of the light.

And with his last breath did the Holy Prophet Malikwe sayeth "seek ye those who follow the path of light for there are many amongst the house of the righteous who follow the path of the Gods and are righteous in their sights"

19 April 2012 at 23:16  
Blogger Oswin said...

Ernst @ 11:18 : correct.

Dodo @ 13:36 : bollox.

20 April 2012 at 00:41  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin

Would you care to eleborate? Was it all, er, bollox or in part? And the term is unclear to me. Could you define it?

20 April 2012 at 01:01  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, The language of trolls = Bollox.

20 April 2012 at 07:51  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

It must be a comfort for a Doddles to know his tedious award is for a life time.

The 'Uriah Heep' award goes to Albert the Convert.

The 'Vlad Vileness The Impaler ' award goes to the Inspector and

The' Three Graces' award goes to
Cressida Oswin and Len
Luminaries lighting the way with
purity and reason uncontaminated by the sulphuric fumes of the Bog.

20 April 2012 at 10:48  
Blogger Peter Jackson said...

Hereward@17.05
Bless you

20 April 2012 at 10:52  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova
But how can one be the 'most tedious communicant for a lifetime? It's a relative term and someone may come along and outdo me.

I am nominating cressida and atlas for the 'unhinged and bracket award' and len, Ernsty and Oswin for the three stooges' award.

20 April 2012 at 10:59  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len
You just cannot deal with reality, preferring a dark little world.

What specifically was inaccurate in the information provided on the translation of scripture into English?

20 April 2012 at 11:19  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Well it's up to you to be as consistently boring as you can be so you wont lose your title Doodle Duck!

Do you know how painful it is for an old duck to have each feather removed without anaesthetic. It's called 'Pluck a Duck Devotions' a game invented by the Venerable Bede used as a disciplinary measure for those vain subversive monks who refused to shave those circular
bald spots on the tops of their heads that were mandatory hairstyle at that time.

It is said some of the monks fainted having their hair pulled out by the roots and the only way to revive them was mouth to mouth resuscitation by a nun from the novitiate with holy water.

20 April 2012 at 11:33  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Mikado-do

Thanks for placing me within such an illustrious company of believers, who Ernst believes holds the opinion with him that the RCC is merely 'one' of many within the universal church of Our Blessed Lord and Saviour.

The RCC many not have rediscovered Christ and His teachings and His Works on our behalf, as the CofE and others did previously at great cost to those who demanded to know God's Word in their own tongue, only to then lose sight of their preciousness to the body of believers, like CofE appears to have now but instead the RCC insists on blatantly continuing in defiance of Christ's many requests to repent and correct their errors!.

All 7 churches in the Book of Revelation are HIS but there are things He says to them that must be heeded, else..3 are specifically promised to go through the wrath of God in the last days UNLESS they repent!

Ernst

20 April 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida
Well hello my little slightly unhinged, in a very endearing way, imaginative poet.

I see you are acquiring the protestant habit of making history up as you go along to suit your own purposes. There is a limit even to poetic license.

There is no record of any such 'Pluck a Duck' ritual; it is pure invention. And anyway, no self respecting Novitiate would dare enter a monastry to administer such a treatment, especially to rebellious monks. The very thought!

What's with all the aggro towards Catholics of late?

20 April 2012 at 14:16  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Well my little plump goose I think this was a good story and very believable.I could have palmed it off as ancient Catholic folk lore
given to us as oral history. You did not really research this, did you ?LOL

There is no Catholic aggro on my part . It is just personally directed towards individuals who have been very mean and nasty to me.The protestant boys have been very nice to me so I'm riding with them

I like the riders but not so keen on their horses. You have better horses but the riders are rubbish!

20 April 2012 at 15:31  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida
I always research before posting, unlike some - I hope you're listening len.

Do remember it is the horse that will get you home in the end. I'd sooner have a grouchy rider who knows where he's heading, upon a horse capable of getting him there, than ride with obsequious weasels on old nags about to draw their last breath.

Besides, we can be nice too and I hope you and I will remain friends during any future spats. That, or I will call you an "old hen" instead of a "young chick"!

20 April 2012 at 16:15  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Ps
I will spare your blushes and refrain from telling you what came up when I Googled 'pluck a duck'. Seemingly, it's rhyming slang.

20 April 2012 at 16:17  
Blogger Oswin said...

Trés drollery! ''...ride with obsequious weasels...'' tee hee :o)

We ride at dawn!

Obsequies for Dodo et alii?

20 April 2012 at 16:45  
Blogger Man in a Shed said...

One of the reason's I left the Conservatives was David Cameron's failure to repeal this sort of legislation that relies upon perceived offence, rather than any objective measure of offence.

No one is safe under these laws.

20 April 2012 at 18:09  
Blogger The Way of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin
Early triumphalism is unbecoming and presumptuous.

Weasels are poor horsemen, lacking steadfastness or grip. The nags you're riding all run in different directions and are forever bumping into into one another.

20 April 2012 at 18:26  
Blogger len said...

Cressida, 20 April 2012 10:48

LOL.

20 April 2012 at 22:59  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

The Adventures of a Weasel and a Damsel

In a land not far from so far here, in a time just since past, lived a young maid. She was seeking happiness through truth. Wherever she looked it elluded her.

One day a whilly, weasel-faced man, 'touched by the moon', passed by hunched upon an old gray mule.

"I am heading to a place full of truth" he croaked, "feel free to accompany me."

She accepted his boney hand and climbed aboard the tired old mule who passed wind as she did so.

"Good sir, if it pleases you take me there", she said.

After a day the poor nag collapsed in a heap, dead. The maid and the weasel were stranded, alone. When the search party found them 3 days later the wizened weasel had been gagged with his own underwear and tied up with his string vest.

"I have found truth!" she declared to her rescuers, "Never stray too far from one's home for it is there that truth is. And never, ever go on a journey with weirdo weasels who do not have well nourished, thorough bred mounts."

21 April 2012 at 00:24  
Blogger Oswin said...

Compare the Meerkat not compare the Weasel! (underwear and string-vest notwithstanding) Dodo, I fear for your poor mind!

21 April 2012 at 01:45  
Blogger Oswin said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 April 2012 at 01:45  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

16:15
Yes Doddles we will remain friends in spite of future spats. We may even ride together sometimes but sans your hideous amigos.

You must be nicer to Len and Oswin.Your thoughts are sometimes very disturbing
(e.g.in your story)That comes across as hatred and that is not present in you Doddles. You give a false impression and only alienate people from something (your religion)which you care deeply about.

I'm taking a week off..please do try to behave while I am away:)

21 April 2012 at 05:47  
Blogger len said...

Dodo I can only conclude that the religious spirit which resides in the religions of man is driving you to say the things that you say.

It makes you say quite unpleasant things(as Cressida describes).You can be freed of this spirit by the truth and the Power of the holy Spirit.
I will pray for you and all Catholics that they have revelation of the True God and His Love which will set you free.

21 April 2012 at 08:12  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova
Are you a school teacher passing out instructions as if to naughty pupils? Enjoy your week off and I shall continue to behave impeccably.

The story is a warning to anyone feeling tempted by easy words and empty promises. Trust me, there are plenty of weasels about sitting upon flatulent old nags waiting to lead others astray. Spending time with them will drive you to distraction and lead to desperate acts.

len
Oh, please, spare me your nonsense do!

Oswin
You are not alone in this concern! It's a cross I have to bear.

21 April 2012 at 10:07  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust and a hearty "Hi-yo Silver, away" - the Lone Dodo!

With his faithful companions, the Inspector and Albert, the daring and resourceful masked rider of the plains leads the fight for truth in the early 21st Century.

The Dodo Ranger rides again!

Kemosabe!

21 April 2012 at 10:17  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo. The Inspector desires you beware of that strumpet groupie that has attached herself to your middle. You wouldn’t be the first man to be brought down by a scheming woman...

21 April 2012 at 12:50  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Wise words, Inspector. Your advice duly noted and caution will be exercised. No woman can come between a man and his amigos.

21 April 2012 at 14:09  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

In an English girls finishing school in the Chilterns.

“Right then class, we know what to do. After the count of three. One..two..three...and...SCHEME...”

“That’s it gals, scheme away. Oh Cressida ! What a natural you are !”

“I say Anna Anglican, do pay attention and stop touching Lucy’s breasts. I don’t care if Lucy doesn't mind. I do”

...and a father / son talk not a hundred miles away...

“Look old man, it’s important to realise women are great schemers. Lord knows how they acquire the talent, they just do”

21 April 2012 at 14:27  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Lone Ranger:
[During a gunfight in a canyon]
"It ain't the bullet that kills you."
[shoots a bad guy on a cliff]
"It's the fall."
[bad guy falls from cliff]

21 April 2012 at 14:34  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector

Do you suppose cressida de nova is a secret agent sent by the church of wrinkly weasels to cause dissent amongst our ranks?

21 April 2012 at 14:46  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Decidedly old fellow, either that or she’s DanJ0 having a laugh...

21 April 2012 at 14:55  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

Yes, he has been rather quiet of late ...

21 April 2012 at 15:08  
Blogger len said...

I expect Cressida has become bored with the Catholic 'unwholesome threesome'.And who could blame her!.

Talking to' these' Catholics is like poking a stick in a nest of vipers.

Surely there must be SOME Catholics out there who have been Christianised'?.Perhaps even 'Charismatic Catholics' (second thoughts they probably won`t want to be associated with this lot!)

But it would be nice ,and make a change from the usual hissing and rattling noises this lot make.

21 April 2012 at 16:36  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo @ 14:46 :

Well, that's one way to gain a ladies attention: accuse her of being someone's stooge! I winced when I read that, Dodo. There's brave, and then there's foolhardy. Waving your pigs-bladder might not save you this time. Try jingling your cap-bell too, it just might serve.

21 April 2012 at 16:37  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

“That’s it gals. We’re all schemed out for today, which of course will never happen when you’re grown women. Anna Anglican, I’ve already told you once to leave Lucy’s breasts alone. And you Lucy, put your bra back on this instant. All go to chapel now, time for mass.”

21 April 2012 at 17:08  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

<Inspector
It seems our mysterious lady poet has a couple of admirers in hand. So quick to come to her aid too.

21 April 2012 at 17:12  
Blogger Longinquus Via of Fais Dodo the Dude said...

len,I can think of a good place for your stick. Touch you toes now, there's a good fellow.

Oswin, foolhardy? I'm all a tremble!

21 April 2012 at 17:14  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo: fair enough, feel-free to drop the 'hardy' bit.

By the by, which of you is Tonto?

Dodo, you are to Clayton Moore, as is Violet Elizabeth Bott, to Clint Eastwood.

Hi-ho Mustelidae! Away!

21 April 2012 at 18:12  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Chaps, from the net !

“The Mustelidae is a family of carnivorous mammals, that are regarded by some as rather primitive. Many kinds of mustelids are maligned by humans.”

Must be a Cranmer follower, what !

21 April 2012 at 18:27  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Call me "Reid; John Francis Reid."

Not another lady that captures your fancy, surely? The lisping, spoiled daughter of the local nouveau riche millionaire, Ms Violet Elizabeth Bott!

You're not cressida de nova are you?

True kemosabes are hard to find and so, for the moment, I ride alone.

21 April 2012 at 18:40  
Blogger Oswin said...

Inspector: been ferreting around on Wiki eh? ;o)

21 April 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo the Pedestrian Dude @ 18:40: you've never really grasped the handle of the old 'repartee' business, have you?

21 April 2012 at 18:51  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin, nah, that's just High Anglican pretentiousness. Way too middle class and public school for me. You just carry on dreaming about Ms Bott.

21 April 2012 at 19:39  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ps
It's also very gay!

21 April 2012 at 19:59  
Blogger anna anglican said...

Dodo, Inspector

Keep going on with your mindless and offensive garbage and the rest of us will sit back and watch the wonderful witness of Christ you make for the Church of Rome.Well done boys! I hope your happy now.

21 April 2012 at 21:51  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Good evening Anna. One hopes this day finds you well...

21 April 2012 at 22:22  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Some people are just sooo boring and straight laced.

21 April 2012 at 23:17  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo @ 19:39 : oh dear, so now your inadequacies are a 'class' issue? Last week you suggested your unaccaptable behaviour was down to being an Irish Catholic. What next; exclaiming: ''is it because I is black?'' :o)

22 April 2012 at 00:22  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin, why this preoccupation with the Dude? You really must find another interest as it is becoming quite unhealthy and people may talk.

To recap: I said your style of exchange was pretentious and middle class - it is. And last week I referred to the Irish having a less puritanical outlook on life than your uptight approach - they do.

22 April 2012 at 01:27  
Blogger Oswin said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 April 2012 at 01:56  
Blogger Oswin said...

Yeah, you are right, I just cannot resist squeezing pimples...sighs; after all, no one is perfect.

'Dodo the Pustulate' perhaps? It's got a sort of ring to it, yes?

22 April 2012 at 02:01  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Yes, yes, if you say so. I do believe you; others may not.

You do not have permission to squeeze me, however you try to explain this desire!

22 April 2012 at 02:41  
Blogger len said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 April 2012 at 07:59  
Blogger Oswin said...

You remain unsqueezed. It's the weather, Dodo; all those poor, wee lambs outside, miserable and forlorn. I have seldom seen so much water lying on the surface. Just a few weeks ago I was complaining of drought!

22 April 2012 at 15:36  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Such playful, energetic creatures considering what they become. Do you suppose it's the diet of grass that makes them so boring in maturity?

22 April 2012 at 18:01  
Blogger Alfred of Wessex said...

It all started with the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000.

Every Public Service Organization has a general obligation "to promote good race relations".

Every individual Public Servant has a personal responsibility to "promote good race relations".

Subsequent acts have widened the scope to cover minority religions, homosexuality, lesbianism and bisexuality and lastly disability.

The recruitment by New Labour of large numbers of ideologically committed people into the Public Services as cardres of Equality and Diversity politruks to carry out and enforce the compulsory indoctrination of all public servants in Cultural Marxism during the 3 New Labour administrations has been so effective that their power remains under the Coalition.

The political stripe of Norwich City Council is irrelevant. The Senior Officers (the real, unelected power behind the figleaf of democratic accountability) of that Council are all infected with the incubus of Cultural Marxism.

For fear that they might be accused of any taint of racism/homophobia/Islamophobia/... , they will ban anything that contravenes the tenets of cultural relativism in which they so firmly believe (they have done too well and built too many empires on the back of it to want do anything else).

Such is life in 21st century Britannistan. We are now very much in the territory of Revelation 13. The British government and all British Public Service Organizations are now very much aligned with, if not already part of one or other of the Beasts described in that Chapter.

22 April 2012 at 20:16  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Duly noted Alfred of Wessex. We’ll repeal that act as we did the Corn Laws. Role back this thought crime agenda. After all, the English are a friendly race. Any individual deviation from that always involves some form of provocation...

22 April 2012 at 20:34  
Blogger anna anglican said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 April 2012 at 20:55  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo: I suppose most creatures end up the same way, with or without grass. Besides, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a 250lb tup when it was feeling frolicsome!

23 April 2012 at 01:30  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

I'm relieved to hear that, Oswin! Best to stick with a frolicsome Ms Violet Elizabeth Bott!

23 April 2012 at 01:38  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

"If either of you tups ever frolic near me
I'll thcream and thcream till I'm thick"

O treacherous Oswin
I am gone but one day
and you gird the limp loins
of the foe

MVEB

23 April 2012 at 07:13  
Blogger len said...

Best plug your ears Oswin and don`t listen to the 'siren voices' of Rome calling from the Tiber.

23 April 2012 at 07:48  
Blogger Oswin said...

Len : but, but, but I was only talking of sheep!

Cressida : we'll have less of that ''limp loins'' stuff if you don't mind!

Harrumph! It comes to something when a chap can't discuss the weather/livestock without incurring abuse!

23 April 2012 at 17:36  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin, women and "born againers" are so demanding and troublesome!

Honestly we talk about country matters as we both live in rural areas, and they read something into it - one sex, or so it seems, the other Catholicism.

23 April 2012 at 20:31  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

cressida
You are being unkind to Oswin/.

I cannot speak for the Inpector/ but even though my frolicing days are behinfd me, my loins are most certainly not limp. If they were, Mrs Dodo is perfectly capable of girding them!

24 April 2012 at 01:20  
Blogger Oswin said...

Thank you for your kind support; but that 'Dodo' is looking awfully furry around the beak!

Thinks: i'll just don my red cloak, and retrace my steps, back along the forest path! (the Norse version, naturally)

24 April 2012 at 01:23  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

No need Oswin as I'm really just a Dodo in disguise.

24 April 2012 at 16:17  
Blogger len said...

Why a disguise?.

24 April 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

You do know I'm not really a Dodo either, len? It's just an avitar and moniker.

24 April 2012 at 20:54  
Blogger len said...

I think you undoubtedly are a' Dodo' and perhaps a bit of a 'wolf' too.

Perhaps your search for an identity reflects an inner turmoil.

(Trying my hand at amateur Psychiatry
here Dodo)

24 April 2012 at 21:38  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

More interesting than boring old len! I mean, there's just no style to it.

You've never really quite 'got' what lies behind the name 'Dodo', have you?

Here's one for you:

The Grey Weasel

Just Google an image and you're up and running.

24 April 2012 at 21:49  
Blogger len said...

Dodo I already have an identity.

I am quite happy with mine .

I don`t need a facade to hide behind.

25 April 2012 at 19:24  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ah but len, you are hiding behind a false identity. The difference is that you don't know or acknowledge it.

25 April 2012 at 19:46  
Blogger len said...

Len actually is my name .

My identity is in Christ.

Since I am in Christ, by the Grace of God….

I am now acceptable to God (justified) and completely forgiven.

I live at peace with Him. (Romans 5:1)

I have been forgiven of all of my sins and set free.

I have crossed over from death to eternal life with God. (John 5:24)

The sinful person that I used to be died with Christ, and sin no longer rules my life. (Romans 6:1-6)

I am a child of God. I can call Him “Father.” (John 1:12, 13, Romans 8:14-17)

I was chosen by God to be adopted as His child. (Ephesians 1:4,5)

I am God’s possession, chosen and secure in Him (sealed).

I have been given the Holy Spirit as a promise of my inheritance to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21,22)

I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. The new life that I have because of Jesus will never go away. (Galatians 2:20)

I am a temple – a dwelling place – for God. His Spirit and His life live in me. (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19)

I am God’s building project, His handiwork, created in Christ to do His work. (Ephesians 2:10)

I am only a visitor to this world in which I temporarily live. (1 Peter 2:11)

I have direct access to God through the Holy Spirit. He listens to my prayers. (Ephesians 2:18)

I have the right to come boldly before the throne of God in prayer. He will meet my needs lovingly and kindly. (Hebrews 4:16)

I can endure all things through Christ who gives me strength. (Philippians 4:13)

26 April 2012 at 08:03  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

I hope Christ is giving you a lot of strength Len ..you will need it to deal with Dodo,unlike an Oswin who caved in almost immediately
overcome with needs to 'squeeze'

@ Dodo, len could be Leonard Woolf,Virginia Woolf's husband or even Leonard Cohen!
Show some respect.

As a matter of fact I'm not riding with you anymore Len. What with being a VIP n'all and this impressive identity manifesto ... makes a primitive celtic Queen feel somewhat inadequate.

I have acquired new armour and will ride alone from now on.

26 April 2012 at 11:47  
Blogger Oswin said...

I reccomend a light rub-over with 'Finnegans Wax Oil' to keep ''armour'' in tip-top condition.

26 April 2012 at 14:55  
Blogger Oswin said...

Cressida: does this mean you'll be wearing a 'breastplate' from now on?!? :o)

26 April 2012 at 15:43  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Careful Oswin,no more talk of breastplates..although I must say they are very cumbersome to wear and a rather dangerous protrusion..there is a reason why Dodo is wearing an eye patch at the moment.

26 April 2012 at 16:41  
Blogger Oswin said...

That's called the 'Moffat effect' - but I offer no further explanation.

26 April 2012 at 17:00  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

cressida
You are fickle abandoning len so causually. Mind you, given his inflated sense of self, who could sit with him?

As for his name, Leonard has style but plain len?

By the way, did Madonna advise you on that armour?

Oswin
Do explain.

27 April 2012 at 00:02  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Oswin, do explain the connection i.e. your cryptic reference and Doddles getting poked in the eye with a breastplate?

Dodo, I am not Saint Simpletana of the rose petals invoking the Madonna for fashion advice!

27 April 2012 at 01:50  
Blogger len said...

Cressida,

Are you riding or flying now..... you seem to have wings on your head?.

With Jesus Christ you never will be alone (Psalm 23)

Dodo.... how can some one who died have an 'inflated sense or worth'?.

'I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. (Galatians 2:20)

27 April 2012 at 08:08  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

len they are not wings on my head.. They are steel horns and an essential part of battle dress. I just knew you would want to borrow them..the answer is NO:)

OK I am riding alone and if God wants to look out for me that's good.

PS
You are not dead yet len..You are not Jesus either.You are over identifying. That Galatians quote simply means you are follower of Jesus and embrace his teachings and it is a part of your fabric or essence.
This is allegorical and not meant to be taken literally.

Who has forgiven you all your sins? How do you know God has forgiven you all your sins?

27 April 2012 at 12:49  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

cressida de nova

If I may be so bold, the image you have chosen of Boudicca is not terribly representative of her times and I suspct it was drawn by a sexually repressed male with submissive tendencies.

len

Do you know the meaning of the word humble? No matter how close my walk with Christ, I could never be so presumptious. All the saints I've read about have felt unworthy in the presence of the Lord.

27 April 2012 at 17:08  
Blogger len said...

Cressida, you have taken on a rather formidable appearance(.Is this to protect the inner you?.)
You seem to have misunderstood the 'identity thing( Dodo as well)

Imagine two trees, one is the' tree of Adam' the other is 'the tree of Christ'.It should not go without notice that the Cross of Calvary was also 'a tree!' The right tree!.

We are all born attached to the 'tree of Adam' nothing we can do can alter that, we can try to bear fruit according to the' tree of Christ'but we can only bear fruit according to the' tree of Adam'. Nothing we can do can alter that!.

But God is 'the Gardener' He can remove us from the tree of Adam and graft us into the' tree of Christ'.

Once we are connected to the rootstock of the' tree of Christ' we partake of all that the rootstock has experienced .

Christ said He is' the vine'.... we are 'the branches..'we draw Life from Him.


In the Old Covenant, righteousness had to be attained through keeping the law perfectly (Deut 6:25). It is the righteousness of man because it was to be attained through man’s effort. No one succeeded in 1,500 years(Rom 3:21-26, NKJV)
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Few Christians understand that righteousness is a gift from God. Many Christians are still trying to attain to righteousness through their own performance. Their sense of acceptance by God is based on their effort, but they always feel that they don’t measure up. They feel spiritually dry, burnt-out, guilty with condemnation, etc..

(2 Cor 5:21, NKJV)
For He [God] made Him [Jesus] who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him [Jesus].

This is truly mind blowing. Man in his un-renewed mind will find this verse impossible to comprehend. Today, there are still churches that officially address their people as “poor sinners”. But this is not how God sees you and I. He sees us in Christ – and we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

This of course is only viable if you have been born- again ...One Spirit with Christ.It is the Spiritual Union which makes this seeming impossible possible!.

27 April 2012 at 20:01  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

lensaid ...

And then you go and spoil it all by saying something stupid ...

"This of course is only viable if you have been born- again ..."

27 April 2012 at 20:26  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len

Do you understand the protestant concept of justification?

According to it sin is never forgiven, merely covered and imputed by Christ's death. Justification is a cloak of grace, a covering and concealing of sin.

Your faith is based on a dark view of God and man.

According to Luther and Calvin the faith that justifies is not a firm belief in God's revealed truths and promises but is the infallible conviction that God for the sake of Christ will no longer impute to us our sins, but will treat us as if we were really just and holy, although in our inner selves we remain the same sinners as before.
It's an external, forensic absolution from sin and its eternal punishments.

In the Protestant system remission of sin is not real forgiveness or blotting out of guilt. Sin is cloaked and concealed by the imputed merits of Christ; whilst in reality it continues under cover its miserable existence until death. God by His judicial absolution from sin does not take away sin itself, but spreads over it as an outward mantle His own righteousness.

God did way better than that for us all!

27 April 2012 at 23:26  
Blogger Oswin said...

...and I'm very, very drunk, having had a jolly good night in the Firkin&Fittle. (or someplace) :o)

28 April 2012 at 00:50  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

...good man, we'll make a Catholic of you yet!

28 April 2012 at 00:58  
Blogger Oswin said...

I AM already a Catholic! Just not the sort with an 'R'.

R's for 'Roman' and P's' for 'Protestant' are both a pain in the fundament.

28 April 2012 at 01:17  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Sleep well.

28 April 2012 at 02:08  
Blogger len said...

Dodo (27 April 2012 23:26) what then do you make of Jesus`s command

Ye must be born again" (John 3:1-7).

(this is not a suggestion!)

Dodo , if you are still a 'sinner at heart' in the inner man, then you are well and truly lost.

Gods plan for your salvation is to give you a new Spirit not to try and make the old dead one' better'.

Ezekiel 36:26
'I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.'


This is exactly why I am opposed to religion because you think you are saved but you obviously are not!.
This is a very dangerous position to be in!.

28 April 2012 at 07:02  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, God `s remedy for the sinner is not to try and make him' a better man,' re-educate Him or to' cover him with Grace' or to turn a' blind eye' to his sins.

God`s remedy is far more radical.
God executes him!.

Gal.2:20.—I am crucified with Christ.

Andrew Murray a great man of God describes this far better than I can ; 'The great mark of Christ is His death. Even in Heaven, upon the throne, He stands as the Lamb that was slain, and through eternity they ever sing, "Thou art worthy, for Thou wast slain." Beloved brother, Christ, your all-sufficient Saviour, is a Man of whom the chief mark and the greatest glory is this: He died. And if the Bride is to live with her husband as His wife, then she must enter into His state, and into His spirit, and into His disposition, and ever be as He is. If we are to experience the full power of what Christ can do for us, we must learn to die with Christ. I ought not, perhaps, to use that expression, "We must learn to die with Christ;" I ought, rather, to say, "We must learn that we are dead with Christ." That is a glorious thought in the 6th chapter of Romans; to every believer in the Church of Rome—not to the' select ones', or the' advanced ones', but to every believer in the Church of Rome, however feeble, Paul writes, "You are dead with Christ." On the strength of that he says, "Reckon yourselves dead unto sin." What does that mean—You are dead to sin? We cannot see it more clearly than by referring to Adam. Christ was the second Adam. What happened in the first Adam? I died, in the first Adam; I died to God; I died in sin. When I was born, I had in me the life of Adam, which had all the characteristics of the life of Adam after he had fallen. Adam died to God, and Adam died in sin, and I inherit the life of Adam, and so I am dead in sin as he was, and dead unto God. But at the very moment I begin to believe in Jesus, I become united to Christ, the second Adam, and as really as I am united by my birth to the first Adam, I am made partaker of the life of Christ. What life? That life which died unto sin on Calvary, and which rose again; therefore God by his apostle tells us: "Reckon yourselves indeed dead unto sin and alive unto God in Christ Jesus." You are to reckon it as true, because God says it—for your new nature is indeed, in virtue of your vital union to Christ, actually and utterly dead to sin.'

(Dodo This is obviously not being sprinkled with water as an infant by a Priest but a supernatural act performed by God alone.God literally places us in Christ.)

28 April 2012 at 07:34  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, does this being born again mean that I become perfect ?.Yes and no.
In my Spirit I am exactly as he(Christ ) is.

But I still have the' old programme' installed by my 'old nature'which is still running and will fight against the Spirit of Christ within me.

So the rest of my life is learning to' walk' listening to the Spirit within me and disregarding the 'voice'(not literally) of the programme of my old nature which
still tempts me to obey it.

Jesus said "I do nothing on my own"( obviously He could do many things if he followed His own will and was tempted to do so!) but He chose the will of His Father over His own will.

So far from being pride it is humility which relies on the Spirit within to guide one in all matters.
The Law written not on' tablets of stone but written on the' hearts and minds of men.'

28 April 2012 at 07:49  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Yes, len, just the same old same old, endlessly churned out by you with no real meaning.

You need to really grapple with your confusion about justification - seriously, you do. Your views are a confused and inconsistent mixture of incoherent ideas.

28 April 2012 at 09:55  
Blogger len said...

Dodo, I feel genuinely sorry for you because you seem unable to grasp simple spiritual truths.
No matter how many time the Truth is presented you reject it.

There comes a time when your heart is so hardened that you will be unable to hear the voice of the Spirit.
This is the 'unforgivable sin' to refuse to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit for it is the Holy Spirit Himself who administers salvation.

28 April 2012 at 21:17  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

High Priest Len of the Church of the Confused

So now you feel competent to determine I am guilty of the sin against the Holy Spirit!

You are beyond the pale. You really do not know what it is you claim to believe and what it is you claim to deny.

The post on 28 April 2012 @ 07:49, for example, what do you base this on? It is not "faith alone", now is it?

28 April 2012 at 22:59  
Blogger len said...

Dodo Yes.

'The confusion' seem to be all yours.

If the Holy Spirit is the One who ministers salvation and you will not listen to Him what can He do?.

29 April 2012 at 10:00  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len
So you don't think Christ can regenerate you internally? That there will always be two natures in you waging war? That grace and sin exist together?

How desperate! My faith teaches that Christ is able to transform our fallen nature and that His grace lives in the soul and dispels the darkness.

"If the Holy Spirit is the One who ministers salvation and you will not listen to Him what can He do?"

Indeed! But I thought in your protestant system His grace is irresistable.

29 April 2012 at 17:19  
Blogger len said...

Dodo,

here is a very good web site I am certain you will find it extremely helpful.


www.justforcatholics.org

30 April 2012 at 08:15  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

len

Yes, I've visited it. More balanced and coherent than the nonsense you "preach". Nevertheless, wrong on the fundamentals of the Gospel and most certainly wrong on iits presentation of justification.

Now why don't you visit ETWN and actually find out about the religious system you say you hate?

Here's a little bit of homework, if you're up for it.

Explain the Catholic doctrine on justification. I've repeatedly stated it and so has Albert.

30 April 2012 at 10:24  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older