Monday, May 21, 2012

ASA's Chris Smith comes Out4Marriage


With impeccable ('interesting') timing, Lord Smith of Finsbury has come out in favour of the campaign for same-sex marriage.

For all the reasons previously observed, Lord Smith must now resign his position as Chairman of the ASA, who have aggressively and deceptively made demands of His Grace (and others) in relation to a Coalition for Marriage advertisement which merely sought to uphold the traditional view of marriage and English law as it presently stands. Lord Smith now declares that he desires to support the campaign to change that law, and he is apparently using the ASA to achieve his ends.

It is simply not possible for the ASA to assert impartiality and objectivity in adjudicating on matters relating to the promotion of traditional marriage. Lord Smith is simultaneously Chairman of the ASA and Vice President of The Campaign for Homosexual Equality. Now that he has 'come out' in support of the agenda of the 10 complainants who reported His Grace for disseminating 'homophobia', there can be no expectation that justice can be seen to be done.

58 Comments:

Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

If the ASA’s role were to make a judgement on the politics of same sex marriage then you would be right to say that he would be conflicted – but that isn’t what the ASA is meant to do; they are there to judge adverts. Your logic is akin to saying that he wouldn’t be able to judge a baked bean advert if he liked/disliked baked beans.

21 May 2012 at 16:50  
Blogger William said...

"If the ASA’s role were to make a judgement on the politics of same sex marriage then you would be right to say that he would be conflicted"

That is exactly the role that the ASA have assumed by choosing to pass judgement on whether an advert that promotes traditional marriage is homophobic or not.

"– but that isn’t what the ASA is meant to do"

Correct! That's the problem.

21 May 2012 at 16:57  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

I don't believe that the ASA have made any judgement on the advert - they have just asked for information in response to a vexatious complaint - which is just what they did in response to the equally silly complaints from religous groups about the No God bus adverts (which they should have also binned). I didn't notice many calls for religous members to resign from the ASA at the time.

21 May 2012 at 17:04  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

It may of course just be possible that the ASA is trying to "even" things up for having taken similar compliants from religous groups seriously in the past before adopting a new policy of setting a much higher threshold for their consideration. I would hope so - if not it really will become open season for anyone to object against anything they find offensive and to drown the ASA in bureaucracy.

21 May 2012 at 17:17  
Blogger William said...

TBGNU

Are you saying that there were religious members of the ASA who were actively campaigning for the removal of those adverts?

Lord Smith is actively campaigning for same sex marriage whilst chairing an organisation that is investigating an advertisement promoting traditional marriage for homophobia.

21 May 2012 at 17:19  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

TBNGU..neither do others, do they!

"Your logic is akin to saying that he wouldn’t be able to judge a baked bean advert if he liked/disliked baked beans."

WRONG!! It is like a man having a vested interest in getting a new brand of beans on the shelves and trying to remove those already there off them, by allowing wrongful criticism of those already stocked, for the benefit of those not bought or requested to be stocked by shoppers!

Typical incorrect analogy.

E S Blofeld

21 May 2012 at 17:28  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

I don't think that Lord Smith is actively campaigning for the removal of the adverts - it is quite possible to believe in something and to still believe that others be free to advertise their viewpoint.

Yes, some ASA council members were active members of their churches etc while the ASA was investigating an advert saying that there was probably no God.

21 May 2012 at 17:32  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

Blofeld

I don't think Lord Smith or anyone is trying to remove mixed sex marriages off the shelf - lets just say he is one of those who don't believe that Heinz are the best. (I ignored the obvious joke as it would probably be in poor taste)

21 May 2012 at 17:41  
Blogger Anoneumouse said...

@ Cranmer

A question arises, is he [smith] accessory, complicit or conspirator !!!!!!!!!?

Do you know the date when this video was made?

21 May 2012 at 17:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"Yes, some ASA council members were active members of their churches etc while the ASA was investigating an advert saying that there was probably no God." The lies trip off your tongue, you cad. Who exactly are these church going members..The only one expressing any link with religion was Alan Bookbinder, who describes himself as "an open-hearted agnostic", whatever nonsense that means, whilst head of religion and ethics at the BBC.

You should be utterly ashamed of yourself but I seriously doubt it, you are a Fabian, Naturellement?!.

E S Blofeld

21 May 2012 at 17:44  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

His position is a bit like the position of religious people in faith-based centres who offer pregnancy counselling.

21 May 2012 at 17:52  
Blogger William said...

TBNGU

I didn't ask if they were church goers, which is irrelevant, I asked if they were actively campaigning to have the adverts removed, which is analagous.

21 May 2012 at 17:54  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

Chris Smith is not actively campaigning to have the adverts removed either.

21 May 2012 at 17:56  
Blogger William said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 May 2012 at 18:04  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

Ernst

Before you accuse me of lying - perhaps you should look into the background of Gareth Jones who was a member of the ASA Council at the time.

And yes I am a Fabian, not that it means I do not recognise some of the past idiocies of some Fabians.

21 May 2012 at 18:09  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

DanJ0 said...

His position is a bit like the position of religious people in faith-based centres who offer pregnancy counselling.

21 May 2012 17:52

Which is so much better than offering counselling in Murder if abortion were truly called as what it really is? Death Counselor, doesn't quite have that feel good, your best interest's at heart ring about it, does it?!

E S Blofeld

21 May 2012 at 18:11  
Blogger Philip said...

What action will be taken about the or by the ASA? How many other media outlets will cover this? For example, will the BBC give prominent coverage to this, asking questions as to the appropriateness of Lord Smith's position of Chairman of the ASA, and whether he should resign?

21 May 2012 at 18:11  
Blogger Alan Douglas said...

Mr Smith claims he would like the full equality, and thus the right to marriage. Well Mr Smith, the FULL equality implicit in the word MARRIAGE has also to do with the procreation of children, something done between the 2 members of that marriage.

Mixing semen and involving a host "mother" will never be that full equality you claim to so desire, so Pressdram v. Arkell to you, mate.

Btw, I have no objection to your having something equal to marriage, but you have already besmirched one nice English word by redefinition, that is one too many. Call yours "Union", or whatever, but you can never call it "marriage" - you simply don't qualify.

Alan Douglas

21 May 2012 at 18:15  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

tbngu

'some' ASA council members..is not 'one', bit like some are gay, get over it..did it refer to some being one?..and I wonder why you list a theologian and this therefore makes him an active church member..He was a professor,,Its called a job and does not mean he actively believes what he teaches in classes.

Ernst, young fabianista..nearly wrote fantasist..same difference.*chuckles*.

21 May 2012 at 18:18  
Blogger Amir said...

Online petition anyone?

21 May 2012 at 18:19  
Blogger William said...

Tory boy. He is campaigning for a cause that seeks to redefine marriage to include homosexuals and he is invsetigating an advertising campaign that opposes these changes for homophobia.

21 May 2012 at 18:20  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

William

I agree - just like those who believed in God were investigating an advertising campaign that said there was probably no God. But what they were investigating in each case was not the validity of the various causes but whether the adverts were not in compliance with the ASA code.
Fortunately in this world we can sometimes trust people not to let their personal views colour everything - I have never met any one of substance who is truly neutral on important matters, and if I did I expect they would be exceedingly boring!

21 May 2012 at 18:28  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

Ernst

Might I suggest you read the press at the time of the Probably No God adverts which is where I got my information from or it could have been some of the humanist podcasts that I listen to. I have said nothing here that I am ashamed of.

21 May 2012 at 18:36  
Blogger William said...

TBNGU @18:28

Your analogy is bogus. The equivalent would be if the Chairman of the ASA was a Christian campaigning to introduce laws outlawing the promotion of atheism, whilst the ASA investigated the "There probably is no God ..." campaign for blasphemy.

21 May 2012 at 18:51  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

YG, lord smith. That's like acknowledging Mr Prescott as a lord. What a joke these title have become.

21 May 2012 at 19:17  
Blogger Naomi King said...

This whole campaign (may I call it a witch hunt?) by ASA chairman Lord Smith and his functionaries, against You Grace and your legitimate support for the sanctity of marriage, is perverse.

21 May 2012 at 19:25  
Blogger Belsay Bugle said...

Lord Smith looks as if he suffers from goitre.

21 May 2012 at 20:38  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

William

Lord Smith isn't promoting laws outlawing anything - religions will still be able to define and carry out their own marriages.

21 May 2012 at 20:46  
Blogger len said...

The ASA is no longer' the independent regulator'it purports to be as it is pursuing its own agenda.

Time for Lord Smith to go and the ASA get a truly independent regulator.

Then perhaps justice will be done and be seen to be done!.

21 May 2012 at 20:51  
Blogger Hereward said...

When an organisation is in a hole it doesn't help if it's Chairman takes it upon himself to wield a shovel.

His Grace is probably fireproof for the first time in his life.

21 May 2012 at 20:53  
Blogger Don't Call Me Dave said...

His Grace is not the only person to have suffered at the hands of the ASA:

http://www.notthebarnettimes.co.uk/2012/05/utterly-useless-advertising-standards.html

21 May 2012 at 21:33  
Blogger William said...

TBNGU @20:46

"Lord Smith isn't promoting laws outlawing anything"

Not directly no, but that wasn't the point of the analogy which was to show how the conflict of interests of the Chairman of the ASA have compromised his position.

21 May 2012 at 21:39  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Belsay Bugle, I’d say the bugger is part Cheshire cat if anything...

21 May 2012 at 22:03  
Blogger Naomi King said...

"My Friends, there is a cementing power in the Grace of God which can scarcely be overestimated! It resets the dislocated bones of society, rivets the bonds of friendship and welds the broken metal of manhood into one united mass. It makes all, Brothers and Sisters, who feel its power. Grace links mankind in a common brotherhood. Grace makes the great man give his hand to the poor and confess a heavenly relationship. Grace compels the intellectual, the learned, the polite—to stoop from their dignity to take hold of the ignorant and unlettered—and call them friends! Grace weaves the threads of our separate individualities into one undivided unity.

Let the Gospel be really felt in the mind and it will toll the death-knell of selfishness, it will bring down the proud from their elevated solitude and it will restore the down-trodden to the rights of our common manhood! We need only the Gospel thoroughly preached to bring about “liberty, equality and fraternity,” in the highest and best sense of these words! Not the “liberty, equality and fraternity” which the democrat seeks for, which is frequently another name for his own superiority, but that which is true and real—that which will make us all free in the Spirit, make us all equal in the Person of Christ Jesus and give us all this fraternity of Brothers and Sisters, seeing that we are all one with our Lord in the common bond of Gospel relationship! Let the Truths of Christianity work out their perfect work—and pride, bitterness, wrath, envy and malice must see their graves. This and this, alone, can restore the peace of divided families and unite disputing factions. Only let the Gospel be preached and there shall be an end of war—let it thoroughly pervade all ranks of society and saturate the mind of nations—and there shall be no more lifting of the spears."

A SERMON (NO. 96) BY THE REV. C. H. SPURGEON,

“Therefore, Brethren, we are debtors.” Romans 8:12.

21 May 2012 at 22:19  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Phillip @ 18.11 asks an important question, 'will the BBC give prominent coverage to this, asking questions as to the appropriateness of Lord Smith's position of Chairman of the ASA,'

And Mr Phillip needs no answer!

It is remarkable how institutions established at some point during the 20th Century with the best intentions have grown from nothing to great monsters that intrude into the lives of every citizen. In chronological order one can list MI5/MI6, the BBC and now the ASA limited.

No wonder the current government got as close as it did to the Murdochs, they were desparate to break the grip of the BBC on the political agenda.

If it were not for the dismal presence of Vince Cable, the memorandum and articles of ASA limited may now be subjected to objective scrutiny. However, given Dr Cable's opposition to Dave's reasonable proposals for cutting red tape, the ASA Limited will surely continue on it's non-transparent and unaccountable path.

21 May 2012 at 22:49  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Naomi,
I had previously been pleased with you comments on earlier issues. You comment above shows me that had you been around in 1938, you would have been an appeaser.

Yes God's grace is amazing, but without his wisdom and a sense of his righteousness, we would walk before those who oppose us and they would cut our throats.

We are not all brothers and sisters in Christ. We are made in his image but until they repent and turn from their wicked ways and seek forgiveness as we do, then they are potentially dammed as we were before regeneration.

Let our light shine that they may see the goodness of God, but remember that the unsaved are instruments of the dark.

Toy Boy is immature,
What world do you live in?
No one has yet come up with any statement as to how the advert is offencive or homophobic. So why did the ASA raise the investigation to the highest level when they should have taken one look at it and said 'there is nothing wrong with this'.
Just grow up.

21 May 2012 at 22:57  
Blogger Johnny Norfolk said...

He is an ex Labour place man and should be removed

21 May 2012 at 22:59  
Blogger Roy said...

DanJ0 said...

His position is a bit like the position of religious people in faith-based centres who offer pregnancy counselling.

Why? Are you saying that only atheists should be allowed to give advice to pregnant women?

You remind me of the Labour MP (unfortunately I've forgotten his name) who described William Hague as a "foetus" thinking that was an insult. In that MP's mind a foetus was just so much rubbish - something to be disposed of. Of course the MP was never a "foetus" himself. He was presumably "a wanted baby."

21 May 2012 at 23:39  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Lord Smith: "Being a Gay Man I'd like to be able to marry"

Mmm.

1984 He was quoted: "Good afternoon, I'm Chris Smith, I'm the Labour MP for Islington South and Finsbury. I'm gay, and so for that matter are about a hundred other members of the House of Commons, but they won't tell you openly."

1987 Caught HIV (source: wiki)

Government legislation promotes homosexuals above heterosexuals in all places of employment.

Hate Crime legislation prevents criticism of Homosexuals.

Today, he wants the definition of marriage to be torn up and a new one written.

What conspiracy of hatred for the values of the middle class have I missed?

22 May 2012 at 01:08  
Blogger Kinderling said...

""On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based?" Marx and Engels had first asked in The Communist Manifesto. "On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution."

For beneath the covered table legs, there festered hypocrisy. "All that this Protestant monogamy achieves is a conjugal partnership of leaden boredom, known as 'domestic bliss'." The bourgeois wife "differs from the ordinary courtesan in that she does not let out her body on a piecework as a wage worker, but sells it once and for all into slavery."

But come the revolution, things would be different. Once inheritable wealth was turned back into a shared pool of social property then the narrow, economic foundations of the restrictive "pairing" family would disintegrate. "True equality between men and women can become a reality only when the exploitation of both by capital has been abolished," Engels explained. With the elimination of private property, men and women could marry for "mutual affection", not money; people could change partners at will and avoid "the useless mire of divorce proceedings"; and communal systems of child-rearing would indoctrinate the next generation."

That's the plan.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/apr/29/friedrich-engels-prostitution-suffrage

22 May 2012 at 03:11  
Blogger Frederic said...

The true meaning of marriage is exlained by Paul:

"This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Ephesians 5:32

The marriage of the first Adam prefigured the relation between the second Adam and the church.

Homosexuals have no part in this.

They should repent. And before they squeal, let me say that God certainly hates the sin, but He also love the sinner.

22 May 2012 at 05:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Roy: "Why? Are you saying that only atheists should be allowed to give advice to pregnant women?"

I'm just recognising that if people can't have strong views and also act impartially when in a role then that applies elsewhere too. The blog owner had a better argument earlier when he suggested that staff may have been acting in the hope of favour, knowing the boss's views.

22 May 2012 at 06:03  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

" A civil partnership is wonderful but I would like to have the whole thing" says Lord Smith. Tsk tsk that would necessitate Lord Smith inserting his penis into a vagina. In fact I sure that is the last thing that Lord Smith would want.Someone should explain to him him that is a prerequisite of marriage.Best go for the civil partnership Lord Smith!

22 May 2012 at 08:16  
Blogger Anoneumouse said...

@ bluedog said...

"In chronological order one can list MI5/MI6, the BBC and now the ASA limited."

You forgot ACPO Ltd

22 May 2012 at 08:17  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Anoneumouse, I'm prepared to make an exception for the coppers who date back to the early 19th century. Admittedly the chief constables do more politicking than policing, but that's probably not their preference.

The cops don't have it easy in this PC world. When this communicant was a pup there was an unarmed police Force, and you kept well clear of anything that smelt blue. They talk about gaydar, but you really need copdar too.

Now it's always the police Service , which has a touchy-feely ring to it, but the cops are heavily armed. Ironic really.

22 May 2012 at 09:22  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Dear Mr Integrity

"I had previously been pleased with you comments on earlier issues. You comment above shows me that had you been around in 1938, you would have been an appeaser."

I can assure you I have never been, and not and never will be an appeaser. You may rest assured of this.

22 May 2012 at 18:15  
Blogger Naomi King said...

I see the martyrs and confessors rising from their tombs—I mark their hands still stained with blood and their bodies scarred with the wounds of persecution. They tell me that they of old maintained the Truth of God and preached it in the midst of fire and sword—that they bore death in defense of the cause of God—that they might hand down His holy Word inviolate to us! I look on them and see among their glorious ranks some whose names are celebrated in every Christian land as the bold “lions of God,” the immovable pillars of Truth! I see men of whom the world was not worthy, whose praise is in all the Churches and who are now nearest the Eternal Throne of God. And as I look on them and they on me, I turn to you all and say, “Brothers and Sisters, we are debtors.” We are debtors to the men who crossed the sea and laughed at the fury of the storm, who risked the journeying and the weariness and all the various perils to which they were exposed, by reason of robbers and false brethren. We are debtors to each stake at Smithfield. We are debtors to the sacred ashes of the thou- sands who have there followed Jesus even unto death! We are debtors to the headless bodies of those who were beheaded for Christ Jesus. We are debtors to those who dared the lions in the amphitheatre and fought with wild beasts at Ephesus. We are debtors to the massacred thousands at the hands of the bloody Church of Rome and the murdered myriads of her pagan predecessors. We are debtors to them all! Remember the bloody day of St. Bartholomew, the valleys of Piedmont and the mountains of Switzerland! Let the sacred mounds of our fathers’ sepulchers speak to us. Is not this Bible opened and read by us, all, the gift of their self-denying faithfulness? Is not the free air we breathe, the purchase of their death? Did not they, by bitter suffering, achieve our liberty for us? And are we not debtors to them? Shall we not, in some de- gree, repay the immense debt of our obligation by seeking to make the future, debtors to us, that our descendants may look back and acknowledge that they owe us thanks for preserving the Scriptures, for maintaining liberty, for glorifying God? Brethren, we are debtors to the past!

A SERMON (NO. 96) BY THE REV. C. H. SPURGEON

“Therefore, Brethren, we are debtors.” Romans 8:12.

22 May 2012 at 18:18  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

@Mr Integrity
"What world do you live in?
No one has yet come up with any statement as to how the advert is offencive or homophobic. So why did the ASA raise the investigation to the highest level when they should have taken one look at it and said 'there is nothing wrong with this'."

Given that this is exactly what I said they should heve done - read my earlier posts - I think an apology is in order if you have a shred of integrity. What I thought was been debated here was whether or not Lord Smith had a conflict of interest. You may want to roll all these issues into one but some of us are capable of ditinguishing them and reaching our own conclusions that are different to your own.

22 May 2012 at 20:38  
Blogger Oswin said...

Cressida @ 08:16 : you are beginning to sound a little like Dodo.

24 May 2012 at 00:36  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin

Is that a compliment? I thought cressida expressed a valid point. Don't you?

Are you a homosexual or do you just think this issue matters little? I cannot recollect you ever having expressed an opinion. Not 'Anglican' to do so?

24 May 2012 at 02:27  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo: no, it was not a compliment.

As to the rest of your blether, it's just that: blether.

24 May 2012 at 18:33  
Blogger Chris said...

"but that isn’t what the ASA is meant to do"

It's not enough these days, if the imperialistic view has to conquer all, it can do whatever it wants, there is no stopping their ways, their thoughts, or their beliefs (or lack of..), there's no stopping them.

24 May 2012 at 19:43  
Blogger Unknown said...

E S Blofeld - interests not interest's

Hereward - its not it's

We would take your arguments more seriously if your grammar were better....

Otherwise you come across as ill-educated and therefore not worth listening to.

24 May 2012 at 22:11  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

unknown

You snobby bast*rd. How's that for grammar?

24 May 2012 at 22:49  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oawin

A "yes" or a "no" will do. No need to be ashamed of your sexuality.

24 May 2012 at 22:51  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo: previously you have accused me of being both lascivious and, a prude; and now, a homosexual!

Perhaps it is you, who are a tad confused?


Unknown @ 22:11 : I concur with Dodo's observation. Further, your own grammatical usage is far from perfect; your structural syntax being mediocre, at best.

25 May 2012 at 03:04  
Blogger William said...

Unknown

"We would take your arguments more seriously if your grammar were better...."

Is that the royal "we" or are you part of the Borg Collective (Unknown of 9) Grammar Section?

25 May 2012 at 13:00  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin

Apologies, it was an unnecessary and uncalled comment.

25 May 2012 at 22:36  

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