Thursday, May 24, 2012

Dr Shakil Afridi – a monstrous injustice


The doctor who assisted the CIA in the hunt for Osama bin Laden has been convicted by a Khyber court in Pakistan of conspiring against the state, and duly sentenced to 33 years in prison (along with a fine of $3,500 or an additional 3½ years in prison if he doesn’t pay). Under 19th-century British colonial judicial provisions, Dr Afridi was not permitted legal representation. And neither was he permitted to present material evidence, nor to cross-examine witnesses against him. The verdict was handed down by a government official after consultation with a council of tribal elders.

This is a monstrous injustice.

Dr Afridi ran a bogus vaccination program for the CIA in order to locate and verify the bin Laden’s whereabouts, which led directly to the successful completion of the mission in Abbottabad last May when US Navy Seals shot dead the world’s most wanted man.

Pakistan's treatment of Dr Afridi is nothing to do with justice: it is political posturing against the United States and other Western nations. In Washington, Dr Afridi is a hero; in Islamabad, he is a traitor who collaborated with a foreign spy agency in an illegal operation. Apparently, he is permitted to appeal the verdict within two months, but if the Court of Star Chamber hears the case, the verdict is foregone.

Rather weakly, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has demanded Dr Afridi’s release. The EU’s High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Catherine Ashton, has been mute. But that’s a blessing.

Pakistan receives about £13bn in aid every year. According to Imran Khan, it fuels corruption, and should cease. The UK has recently doubled its contribution to £350 million a year until 2015, making Pakistan the largest recipient of UK aid. The DfID persuade themselves this is spent on ‘education; women and children’s health; creating jobs and supporting economic growth; and strengthening democracy’. We all know it’s really spent on nuclear missiles.

So, instead of issuing vacuous memoranda, the US and UK should suspend their aid programmes with immediate effect. Pakistani authorities must appreciate that Dr Shakil Afridi was a true patriot who helped rid his country of an Al-Qaeda terrorist, a notorious Islamist jihadist and a mass murderer. Unless, of course, Imran Khan is right, and the whole system is so irredeemably corrupt that Pakistan would rather revert to the politics of the 7th century than enter the enlightenment of the 21st. Perhaps 19th-century colonial justice is a happy via media.

73 Comments:

Blogger G. Tingey said...

Correct
NOT A PENNY until he is released.

Oh, and wasn't partition of India a good idea (not)

24 May 2012 at 09:11  
Blogger Sam Vega said...

"Under 19th-century British colonial judicial provisions, Dr Afridi was not permitted legal representation"

Oh, don't spoil it! Couldn't you have left that detail out?

24 May 2012 at 09:37  
Blogger martin sewell said...

This is such an important issue that we must not rest until this man is freed.

Pakistani culture speaks much of " honour" - all too often in the context that much of the world regards as utterly unjust and dishonourable.

Dr Afridi acted as a man of honour justice and compassion. If there is any disloyalty or dishonour it lies with the Pakistani Security Agency the ISI which could not be trusted with the information that others knew the whereabouts of the viper it was nurturing in its bosom.

We must place all necessary pressure on Pakistan getting cumulatively heavier until justice is done. As we are getting out of Afghanistan their value to us is diminishing. We have a reducing need to being lax towards the less appealing aspects of its culture.

Few terrorists serve 33years in prison.

We also need to ensure that " progressives" pull their weight in demanding Justice for this man.

Dick Cheney rebuked George Bush Jnr over Scooter Libby -" I can't believe you left a soldier on the battlefield" .
This is the proper sentiment.

24 May 2012 at 09:38  
Blogger Sam Vega said...

They cheat at cricket, too.

24 May 2012 at 09:42  
Blogger Hereward said...

They cheat at everything.

This is a fine example of “no good deed goes unpunished”. Some reports suggest that had Dr Afridi been tried in a national court under Pakistani law he would now be on death row. Doubtless they sent him up the Khyber to avoid that embarrassment. The West needs to protest strongly and cut off aid.

Pakistani politics is beyond understanding. Maybe they have made an example of Dr Afridi to deter others from helping western covert operations and to placate revolutionaries. I am opposed to political assassinations on principle but Bin Laden's guilt was beyond any reasonable doubt. The execution was controversial but justified. Remember that it had to be undertaken in the utmost secrecy because Pakistan couldn't be trusted. With a friend like that you don't need enemies.

24 May 2012 at 10:10  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

the US and UK should suspend their aid programmes with immediate effect

May I remind His Grace that the US and the UK have 60,000 troops and support staff deployed in Afghanistan. Pakistan is a very dodgy 'ally' and could instantly choke of the transport routes carrying everything required for the ISAF effort.

We are not in a very strong position to start throwing our weight about right now, when we know bugger all about PakAf Tribal politics and alliances.

Obama has already snubbed the Pakistanis for increasing the cross border tolls and the whole question of the relationship between Pakistan and the US has never been lower. Given the simple question regarding aid being stopped, I would fully agree with you, and even take it a step further by making any future aid programme dependent on nuclear disarmament - same goes for India.

Destabilising the political balance however corrupt, will advantage the Talibs and their ilk, and serve up the perfect opportunity for propaganda coup. Such a move will be interpreted as a direct attack on the poorest and vulnerable in the population - a terrible 'own goal'.

Let's get all the troops and interpreters, civillian workers to safety before we put them in even more danger. Dave make look crazy to increase our aid component, but maybe there is method in the Government's apparent madness.

24 May 2012 at 10:36  
Blogger Hereward said...

Abdul Qadeer Khan. Remember this traitor? He wasn't put behind bars.

Hailed as the father of Pakistan's nuclear programme, Mr Khan shocked his countrymen when it emerged in 2004 that he had sold nuclear secrets abroad. He was found out when nuclear components destined for Muammar Gaddafi's Libya were seized in 2003 from a German-owned ship. It subsequently emerged that Mr Khan sold nuclear technology to Iran and North Korea. He made a televised confession to the country that he later retracted and was held under house arrest by the Pakistani authorities until 2009.

He was regarded as dodgy in an ok sort of way it would seem.
But then he wasn't helping the West.

24 May 2012 at 11:06  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

I tend to agree with Imran Khan he knows his people.
I rather think they are more corrupt than not, look at all the election fraud too that they are bringing over here too. We need to stop the aid asap.

In this man's case surely it is up to the Americans to get him freed otherwise they will have difficulty recruiting others to help them in the future, I mean who would want to risk their freedom and maybe their life for another countries retribution?

24 May 2012 at 11:39  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
I thought that Agents were extracted if it was thought their identity was compromised. How is it that the US did not get him out?

24 May 2012 at 12:08  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

A few thoughts:

1. You are more likely to secure his release by increasing financial aid. That might have been one of the motivations of the trial - to extort money. One thing is for sure. Cutting aid won't work. Capitulation under those terms would increase Pakistan's humiliation, and make no mistake. Pakistan was humiliated. That humiliation was unavoidable, but that doesn't make it any less painful. I agree this man has to be extracted, but it will be done quietly. And it will be stage-managed to make the Americans appear as supplicant.

2. That national humiliation demands some form of retribution, so I can understand why this man was tried and convicted. He is a surrogate for the US whom the Pakistanis really want to punish.

3. OBL wasn't executed. He was killed. The Americans were under no obligation to take him alive. He was a legitimate target as an enemy commander. There was no go reason to capture him. There were many good reasons to kill him. The raid was President Obama's finest hour as President.

carl

24 May 2012 at 12:32  
Blogger tory boys never grow up said...

While I wouldn't for a moment want to defend the corrupt and two faced Pakistani authorities - I do know from personal contacts that DfiD puts its own staff on the ground, who have to work in pretty unpleasant circumstances, to specifically make sure that the aid money goes where it is intended rather than to nuclear weapons or similar.

24 May 2012 at 12:35  
Blogger Marcus Foxall said...

Fair point about aid , YG.
Or maybe another SEAL team could spring the doc ?

24 May 2012 at 14:36  
Blogger scottspeig said...

I don't agree. If the authorities were helping OBL in hiding him, and someone worked with foreign nationals in thwarting the regime's stance, then the man is a traitor to his country and is a spy for the US. Since our law allows spies to be shot, his sentence is not that bad.

Either way, it doesn't look good for the country as either it's a mis-carriage of justice, or it shows that the countries authorities knew and condoned the hiding of OBL on their land.

24 May 2012 at 14:46  
Blogger CSPB said...

"The DfID persuade themselves this is spent on ‘education; women and children’s health"

Meaning promotion of abortion?

24 May 2012 at 15:30  
Blogger CSPB said...

" The raid was President Obama's finest hour as President."


The good docor was probably arrested because of leaks of classified information by the Obama Administration.

24 May 2012 at 15:37  
Blogger Youthpasta said...

If I am correct, the general "presumed" policy for aid is "Don't discriminate against gays", as recently seen in Africa.
However, with Pakistan being Islamic and fairly hard line, yet they have continued to receive aid. If they still receive aid after this it really makes me wonder what our aid policy actually is!

24 May 2012 at 15:58  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ha! Surely Your Grace does not expect the Obomination and the oily Clinton Woman in charge of Foggy Bottom to do anything about this? The nincampoop-in-chief would have to consult his best and only friend, Turkey's Islamist Erdogan, to seek instructions from the Muslim Brotherhood and to wait for a green light from the UN...and Michelle. They call this ingenious process "smart diplomacy," the strategy that's designed to turn the US from the world's policeman, to the world's pink and furry Care Bear.

24 May 2012 at 16:10  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

"The DfID persuade themselves this is spent on ‘education; women and children’s health"

I.e., On Paris or London shopping trips for the leaders' wives, on madrassas all over the world, on partying at Yale, Harvard or Georgetown for the young fops and braces and slimming plans for the younger offspring.

24 May 2012 at 16:32  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

I am opposed to political assassinations on principle but Bin Laden's guilt was beyond any reasonable doubt.

Nonsense.

Not only was his guilt in serious doubt, his very existence was in even more serious doubt. Come to think about it so is his apparent death.

You can not kill someone who does not exist, or died many years previously.

What EVIDENCE do we have of any of these rather important matters of fact?

If there were to be any at all, it is now at the bottom of the deep ocean.

Why do you instinctively believe the lies you are told, most especially as they come from people who have a vested interest in lying to you?

The EVIDENCE that 9/11 was a black ops, or certainly nothing like what we have been told is so compellingly conclusive it truly defies believe. Which is why 60% of Americans, and 80% of the victims families don't now believe a word of it.

Indeed the EVIDENCE is now so strong the ONLY people who now believe the official conspiracy theory are those who have never even glanced at the EVIDENCE.

24 May 2012 at 16:54  
Blogger OldSouth said...

Not a penny, ever again. Pakistan is run by barbarians, not worth 'saving'.

24 May 2012 at 17:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

The States ought to trade him for something, if he's considered a spy for the States. Actually, I reckon they're obliged to do that. Alternatively, let's offer him a place over here if they're willing to let him go.

24 May 2012 at 17:27  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace, as the Inspector stated a few weeks ago, the ‘development money’ is a mere bribe to keep these untrustworthy corrupt cheats on board. So no, it’s not going to be stopped or reduced. Your man will serve about 12 months before he is ceremoniously kicked out of the country, much to the envy of the everyday wretches who themselves would love to escape their disgusting homeland. Albeit, bringing their equally disgusting habits with them as we have experienced in the UK.

Expect a new health initiative next year, reducing TB, that kind of thing. Costed at several million paid for by WHO, financed by the US. That will get him out…

Johnny Pakistan is a truly awful fellow, sure we’re all agreed on that, what !

24 May 2012 at 17:44  
Blogger Oswin said...

It's very difficult not to appear 'racist' about this sort of thing; too difficult for little ol' me, so I'll just leave it at that.

24 May 2012 at 17:46  
Blogger Oswin said...

Atlas Shrugged: it's been a hot day; sit in the shade and have a nice cup of tea.

Mind you, the 'ayotolla' Khomeini of Iran fame, had only nine and a half fingers. Whereas the bugger they buried had a full set!

Naturally, I attribute this to his being such a genuinely 'holy' man. :o)

24 May 2012 at 17:58  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Old South said;
Pakistan is run by barbarians, not worth 'saving'.
I agree, the leaders mostly are barbarians but they still have starving children and appalling living conditions. (not much different from a lot of Muslim country’s.) From what I have seen and heard, not all the spending is monitored by the DfiD. Whatever, Aid enables them to spend their own money wherever they want rather than dealing with their own problems.
As I said, the US should not have left him there.

24 May 2012 at 18:08  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Old South said;
Pakistan is run by barbarians, not worth 'saving'.
I agree, the leaders mostly are barbarians but they still have starving children and appalling living conditions. (not much different from a lot of Muslim country’s.) From what I have seen and heard, not all the spending is monitored by the DfiD. Whatever, Aid enables them to spend their own money wherever they want rather than dealing with their own problems.
As I said, the US should not have left him there.

24 May 2012 at 18:08  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

OOIG

"Albeit, bringing their equally disgusting habits with them as we have experienced in the UK."

'Honour' is not killing your children because they disagree with you and what sort of a religion has women (can't bear to call them mothers..they are not worthy to be called this cherished role) willing to join the male in killing what came from her..Utterly disgusting and inhuman!

If this is indeed 'honour', then old Ernst is glad he is a most dishonourable infidel.

Ernst

24 May 2012 at 19:42  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Atlas Shrugged

You don't actually believe all that nonsense you wrote, do you? It was a parody, right? Right?

carl

24 May 2012 at 19:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Indeed Blofeld, it is prevalent in the UK for the comparatively small number of this Asian people here. One wishes we still had recourse to the rope in this country. Would definitely save some lives, whatever the fairies say...

24 May 2012 at 19:48  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

Oswin said...
Atlas Shrugged: it's been a hot day; sit in the shade and have a nice cup of tea.
24 May 2012 17:58

Thank you for the advice.

It is a shame however that you chose to make a comment on such a vitally important subject at all, without actually dealing in any kind of substantive manner with the issues involved.

If the mass media can clearly be shown to have collectively lied about ANY issue, however seemingly insignificant, then its reliability is drawn seriously into question to say the very least, regarding all other reported issues, very much including world changing ones such as the true causes, and perpetrators of 9/11.

In this particular case, who actually did what and why they did it, is of such enormous importance that it truly defies description.

If 9/11 was not what we are told it is, ( which it most evidently was not ) then we cannot not only trust our ENTIRE mass media, we cannot trust our own government. What is worse we have ourselves become co-conspirators in the MASS MURDER of foreign citizens on their own land.

Time for a good cup of tea indeed.

A proper and full understanding of the events of that infamous morning a decade or more years ago is central to an understanding of not only what has happened since, but much of that which proceeded it.

Please understand that most Germans thought they were on the right side until only the last few months of WW2.

No one wants to believe that they are on the side of true evil, which is an observation not at all lost on our owners. The common people of the westernized world have now been in a collective state of denial for at least 8 years, because in their heart of hearts they KNOW 9/11 was an inside job to a lesser or greater extent. As was the case with the majority of the German people during the 30-40's.

And now for that cup of tea.

24 May 2012 at 19:49  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Inspector here. EVERYBODY STOP PROCEEDINGS. We have an emergency.

Are there two medical officers on site. Please report to the office, there is a Section 55 needs signing...

24 May 2012 at 19:59  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

Are you that rude to everyone you come into contact with?

However you unintentionally make a very good point for me.

Jesus also told the truth and we all know what followers of The Roman System like yourself did to him.

Instead of so desperately attempted to get the messenger shot, or indeed crucified it would be nice for a change if you actually dealt with the message.

24 May 2012 at 20:23  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Atlas

'Not only was his guilt in serious doubt, his very existence was in even more serious doubt'

You emphasised the word evidence three or four times but never one gave any evidence yourself.

Hitler suggested that there needed to be a 'solution' to the 'Jewish Problem' - his generals took it upon themselves to attend to his 'needs'. I suppose you would apply your same troofer logic to his innocence of involvement in the Holocaust unless you saw him on one of his home movie films, pushing the victims in to the gas chambers and sprinkilng in the Zyklon B.

There is evidence aplenty that Bin Laden founded AQ with his access to money and his belief the some twat called Mohammad had received the word of Allah via Angel Gabriel in speech form, during one of his solitary 'vision experiences' - and the EVIDENCE is called the Koran.

The principal stated aims of al-Qaeda were to drive Americans and American influence out of all Muslim nations, especially Saudi Arabia; destroy Israel; and topple pro-Western dictatorships around the Middle East. Bin Laden also said that he wished to unite all Muslims and establish, by force if necessary, an Islamic nation adhering to the rule of the first Caliphs.

According to bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious decree), it was the duty of Muslims around the world to wage holy war on the U.S., American citizens, and Jews. Muslims who did not heed this call were to be declared apostates.

Bin Laden founded and funded the operators working towards the CAUSE; to act like the strands in a spiders web - all connected to the centre or 'The Base'.

But don't take my word for it - DO YOUR OWN research.

24 May 2012 at 20:25  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Atlas, it pains the Inspector to have a fellow communicant declared insane, but what else can he do. We need your sources, links, back up evidence. My God, man, do we need spell it out to you. If these ideas emanate entirely from your own head, then ‘mission control, we have a problem’...

24 May 2012 at 20:37  
Blogger bluedog said...

Atlas @ 20.23 said, 'Jesus also told the truth and we all know what followers of The Roman System like yourself did to him.'

Does that mean that Jesus was crucified by the Jesuits?

Eureka!

24 May 2012 at 21:39  
Blogger Roy said...

tory boys never grow up said...

While I wouldn't for a moment want to defend the corrupt and two faced Pakistani authorities - I do know from personal contacts that DfiD puts its own staff on the ground, who have to work in pretty unpleasant circumstances, to specifically make sure that the aid money goes where it is intended rather than to nuclear weapons or similar.

I am sure you are right about what the staff of the DfiD working in Pakistan are trying to do. The trouble is that even if they are completely successful in ensuring our money goes where it is intended to go their success will reduce domestic pressure on the government of Pakistan to spend money on health and education. If foreigners will pay for those things the government can afford to spend more on nuclear weapons and aid to terrorists.

One of the aims of Al Qaeda that does not seem to have attracted much attention in Britain and the US is the reconquest of Andalucia in Spain. Perhaps it is not an "official" aim of Al Qaeda but, if my memory serves me correctly, Bin Laden did include the Spanish reconquest of Andalucia as one of the crimes that the West has committed against Moslems.

24 May 2012 at 21:42  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Roy , If foreigners will pay for those things the government can afford to spend more on nuclear weapons and aid to terrorists.

Inspector hopes he’s wrong but feels that once these tin pot states get nuclear weapons, they would rather much of their own population perish than get rid of them...

24 May 2012 at 22:28  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty said ...
" ... what sort of a religion has women (can't bear to call them mothers..they are not worthy to be called this cherished role) willing to join the male in killing what came from her..Utterly disgusting and inhuman!"

Now, are you 'convicting' them of sin or 'condemning' them? Not the latter, surely? Poor little pope len will be so disappointed with you. Afterall, we're all sinners and you draw no distinction between shoplifing, homosexuality and murder.

24 May 2012 at 22:33  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Evidently, 9/11 was an Illuminati plot to start a war with the Arabs so that Western man could be enslaved by Secret-President Cheney. The towers weren't destroyed by airliners. They were brought down by giant black helicopters disquised as airliners.

It all makes sense now.

carl

24 May 2012 at 23:09  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

carl

No, no, no, my good man. It was organised by the cult known nowadays as the 'Jesuits'. This group, originally formed in circa 100,000 BC, periodically changes its name to confuse the masses. Do pay attention!

24 May 2012 at 23:21  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Dodo

The Jesuits have been around for 100,000 years? Impossible! The RCC has only existed for maybe the last 1500. Now if you were to say that the RCC was a subsidiary of the 'Skull & Bones Society,' that I could believe. It has already been well established that Bush II selected the current Pope - at Cheney's direction of course.

carl

24 May 2012 at 23:51  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

carl

Catholicism, 'Skull and Boneism', Communism, Facism, Liberalism, Islamism, Sooty and Sweepism, whatever 'ism' us poor unenlightened masses name it, it's all the same thing. A small group, since before time, controls all things. It seems "they" may have come from Atlantis - or the stars.

It all makes perfect sense ......

Ps
Universal Christianity, i.e Catholicism, has existed since the time of Christ.

25 May 2012 at 00:44  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

You are in good form Oswin me former luv. Glad you raised the point about Bin Laden being dead.I never thought he was dead and especially not now since I have just seen someone looking very like him eating at a warung in a village.
If I disappear from this site..you will know why.I will be thinking of you all from the hottest seat in hell.

25 May 2012 at 05:32  
Blogger IanCad said...

“If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms -- never! never! never!”
Earl of Chatham (William Pitt the Elder.)
There are US. drones overhead and troops on the ground. We can hardly condemn Pakistan for punishing spies.
Regardless of how vile their regime is. It is. They are responding in a predictable way to a violation of their sovereignty.
A little extra foreign aid may ease the good doctor's travail.
Spying is a rough business. Remember Jonathan Pollard. It'll soon be thirty years for him. He was working for our friends!

25 May 2012 at 06:33  
Blogger Marcus Foxall said...

Atlas , re :

"The EVIDENCE that 9/11 was a black ops, or certainly nothing like what we have been told is so compellingly conclusive it truly defies believe."

So , you attach no credence to Al-Qaeda telling Iranian president HamDinnerJacket(spelling?)that his allegation of U.S.Government involvment was nonsense?
I've read all the questions about a White House conspiracy .
It is right and proper that we scrutinise impartially , but some of the concerns raised by conspiracy theorists go beyond the realm of enquiry and into the realm of paranoia.

I'm surprised you are able to post here so often - I'd guess you'd spend most of your time on David Icke's website.

25 May 2012 at 07:03  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

I suppose he is lucky not to have been assassinated like Shahaz Tanweer, the Pakistani politician who criticised their blasphemy laws or Christisn Pakistani politicians who have been murdered.

Meanwhile I heard yesterday that the Cameroons have reduced immigration (still a net 250,000 a year and largely from Pakistan) by only the tiniest trickle.

25 May 2012 at 10:35  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo sneered@24 May 2012 22:33

Now, are you 'convicting' them of sin or 'condemning' them? (Dear bird, when has anyone trying to convict you of believing nonsense worked..Are you not driven by your own musings despite evidence..When Paul offered advice for asking false teachers and disruptive unrepentant sinners to leave the house churches, he did not state set up inquisitions, trump up evidence against them, especially if they wanted God's Word in their own language and have them strangled or burnt at the stake, now did he? Yet all this Rome did, despite not being told to do this or has Ernst been reading his Bible wrongly!)

Not the latter, surely? Poor little pope len will be so disappointed with you. Afterall, we're all sinners and you draw no distinction between shoplifing, homosexuality and murder.(I have just drawn a few distinctions about murder, especially supposedly believer on believer and you see not..Convicted, are you?)

Trust this isn't going to last until the new footie season starts?!

Ernst

ps

St Paul wrote in letters written in the tongue of believers or else how can he ask them 'to search the scriptures'?
Should I present you with a mandarin bible and see how you fare?

"Ps
Universal Christianity, i.e Catholicism, has existed since the time of Christ." You really are shameless in propagating myths. There were over 100 churches (in houses) set up during the new testament period yet not one are called as such nor adhere to the add-ons that are associated with catholicism, especially your roman flavour..or must we speak about infant baptism and Origen for starters.

25 May 2012 at 11:15  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

IanCad

Remember Jonathan Pollard. It'll soon be thirty years for him. He was working for our friends!

Pollard was an American citizen. He swore an oath to protect information for the benefit of the US. The fact that he spied for Israel is of no consequence to that oath. He did extra-ordinary damage to the US by what he compromised. He deserved what he got. He deserves no special consideration because he worked for Israel.

carl

25 May 2012 at 13:21  
Blogger IanCad said...

Carl,

My pooint exactly!

25 May 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

IanCad

To make the analogy, you must assume that OBLs location was a closely-guarded Pakistani state secret. That isn't the public face that Pakistan was presenting. The Pakistanis were ostensibly helping in the search for OBL. So we have Pakistan convicting a man for revealing information that Pakistan officially didn't know and wanted brought to light. You would have to convince me this man had access to the information he was supposed to be protecting, and that he knew he was supposed to protect it.

In fact, he helped the Americans find OBL, and indirectly facilitated the raid that so humiliated the Pakistani gov't. Pakistan can't do anything to the US, but it can punish this doctor in its place. Otherwise, we have to accept that the doctor was punished for helping the Americans find a criminal wanted by the Pakistani authorities.

carl

25 May 2012 at 14:50  
Blogger IanCad said...

Carl,

I don't think there are many people who believe that Pakistan was ever actively looking for Bin Laden.
My point is, that spying has no rules and punishment is harsh and often well deserved as in the case of Jonathan Pollard.

Ian.

25 May 2012 at 17:39  
Blogger Oswin said...

Cressida: @ 05:32 :

As much as I would like to claim your approbation, I didn't actually mention Bin Laden; I do believe that he is dead. I think it was Atlas who demurred upon that point? Regards Os.

25 May 2012 at 18:52  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

Missing the point again and answering questions not asked. You should have gone into politics.

You attacked all women of Islam, suggesting they were inhuman. Now, for a self professed Christian who has repeated stated we are all sinners and should condemn noone, this struck me as hypocritical - the mask slipping. You have also claimed all sin is sin - no distinctions.

Care to address these points?

25 May 2012 at 22:23  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Dodo, Blofeld was merely making his views known on honour killings. The Inspector has yet to detect any regret from either the mother or the father in any of these cases. It’s ’living Islam’ no doubt. A disgusting situation best remedied by the rope...

25 May 2012 at 23:07  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector

No doubt.

However, he and little pope len repeatedly bang on about not condemning sinners because we are all sinners, and regularly inform us there is no distinction between particular types of sin. The only 'remedy' is being "born again".

The moral compasses of these men and women in Pakistan have been distorted by the mores and culture of their communities which predate Islam. These drown out the conscience and morallaw God has given us all and imprinted in us.

One of the key the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is recognition of the influences of society on the the individual and how this can impede receptivity to the workings of the Holy Spirit. That's why our faith places importance on social teachings and social doctrines.

So, I was not commenting on the particulars of the cases in question. And, of course, no regret is expressed. Why would it be if they believe they are doing the 'right' thing?

26 May 2012 at 00:20  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Carl Jacobs @ 14.50 said, ' Otherwise, we have to accept that the doctor was punished for helping the Americans find a criminal wanted by the Pakistani authorities'.

Indeed. And as you infer, that is a completely ludicrous proposition.

The more worrying questions are who else has helped the US and is now likely to get the chop, and who else is being hidden within Pakistan by ISI.

If the fate of the ISI assassinated journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad is anything to go by, ISI will show no mercy if threatened. Shahzad used to write for Asia Times, and was right on the trail of the Taliban, aggressively exploring links with Al-Qaeda, and possibly knew of OBL's lair. With the benefit of hindsight it now seems that ISI may have been afraid that Shahzad was about to make the scoop of the decade by blowing OBL's cover. Shazhad disappeared and was found dead in his car just on 12 months ago

Sadly it would not surprise this communicant to learn that Dr Shakil Afridi has 'taken his own life in jail while in a depressed state'.

26 May 2012 at 08:13  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Inspector thanks you Dodo, he can see your reasoning now...

26 May 2012 at 10:27  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector

You're very welcome.

Now, I wonder if the two "born againers" will respond without endless scriptural passages and convoluted and barely comprehensible lines of reasoning. They never have before.

26 May 2012 at 12:17  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo the Equivocator stated

"However, he and little pope len repeatedly bang on about not condemning sinners (I NEVER have!)because we are all sinners (We ARE!), and regularly inform us there is no distinction between particular types of sin (it is human legalistic and degree BUT all sin is SIN to God and it's wages, which we have earned, are death!). The only 'remedy' is being "born again" (It most certainly is and not your Christ plus option!). "

"The moral compasses of these men and women in Pakistan have been distorted by the mores and culture of their communities which predate Islam. " Then you know nothing about the historic nature of Moon Worship and Allah always being a constant in their 'gods worship' to Arabs and Islam is merely a stated Tribal association by Mohammed to a specific Arabic deity amongst many they worshiped, hence the chant Allah is the greatest...greatest compared to who and what if he is the only god?!

Honor killing should never be confused with wife beating, or wife killings by husbands or other relatives, as you are trying to distinguish as it is a specific muslim incident. Since pre-historic ancient time people assassinated, killed, or poisoned their wives or husbands, or other family members for either adultery, love affairs (Poro-keya prem) with other man besides her husband, or for property disputes—and these are simple homicide in English terminology (indeed your church has made it a part of it's historical dealings with it's own and we ..*ahem* Heretics?. However, all these things committed by humanity are NEVER called honor killings.

Islam consider women as the sources of great shame. Prophet Muhammad said women are 'awrah' which can be translated as 'object of shame'. What is awrah? The Encyclopedia of Islam defines 'awrah’as pudendum, which is the external genitals, especially of the female. The word Pudendum derives from the Latin pudor which means sense of shame and modesty. Therefore, awrah signify an object of shame that needs to be covered.

Little things like ..Quran- 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way (the family kills them?)” and a Palestinian official stated in Gazajezeera : “So there's no point saying honor killing isn't really part of our religion. Honor and Islam are inextricably bound; they are what give our life meaning. A strong religion demands we choose to maintain our honor.” Christian Arabs and others do NOT and have never participated in this vile ritual!

"One of the key the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism is recognition of the influences of society on the the individual and how this can impede receptivity to the workings of the Holy Spirit. " The problems that you believe led to the reformation were mere symptoms but these were rooted in your wrong doctrines that caused them, as a natural follow on!

Ernst 'blue moon' Blofeld

26 May 2012 at 12:52  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

I'm not discussing the origins of Islam or the distinctions between types of homocide. Nor was I referring to the root causes of the reformation! Since you mentioned the latter, I have to say I disagree with your analysis. Human greed and lust for power drove the reformation - not doctrinal error. And these forces were as evident outside the Church as within it.

I was commenting on your reference to men and women in Pakistan being less than human in their behaviour when participating in 'honour' killings. And, by the way, Pakistan was converted to Islam and was never an Arab country. Given your past contributions this struck me as an odd remark.

I agree the behaviour of men and women associated with 'honour' killings is appalling and is rightly condemned as a grevious sin.

There are different levels of sin (some so serious they break a believer's relationship with Christ through a loss of Grace) and different degrees of culpability (depending on self awareness and the ability to exercise true free will). That's why the Catholic Church has social doctrines and sees cultures and belief systems as critical in bringing the Gospel to people. God needs our cooperation if the Holy Spirit is to be effective in transforming lives.

These were the points being made. Care to address them?

26 May 2012 at 16:15  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dodo

It was OoiG who referred to Johnny Pakistan @24 May 2012 17:44 not Ernst.

Ernst said ''Honour' is not killing your children because they disagree with you and what sort of a RELIGION has women (can't bear to call them mothers..they are not worthy to be called this cherished role) willing to join the male in killing what came from her..Utterly disgusting and inhuman!

If this is indeed 'honour', then old Ernst is glad he is a most dishonourable infidel.'

As Arab Christians and Jews do not participate in honour killing, it is therefore an Islamic thing, is it not!
One of the "Harry Potter" actresses, Afshan Azad, (who played the graceful and lovely Padma Patil), was threatened with death in 2010 by her father and brother because she was dating a Hindu man. They beat her up as well causing her to flee her home and to go into hiding in London. Of course, Afshan’s family is Muslim and from Bangladesh but was not widely reported in our Islamophile media.

'I agree the behaviour of men and women associated with 'honour' killings is appalling and is rightly condemned as a grevious sin.' Is killing another christian because they believe different from you 'honourable or dishonourable?

'Human greed and lust for power'

Surely you jest..The Reformation was about those things?? It is a perfect riposte against Roman Catholicism which are simply synonymous with your church.

You spout stuff about the sanctity of marriage and children and do not see it as an abomination against nature itself let alone the Almighty. How is it not inhuman..even non believers find it repulsive!

You argue for arguments sake.

Ernst

26 May 2012 at 16:52  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty
Missing the point ... again and again! And amongst it, just to confuse and distract, yet another attack on Catholicism.

Here's the relevant section. It would be good if you addressed it:

"There are different levels of sin (some so serious they break a believer's relationship with Christ through a loss of Grace) and different degrees of culpability (depending on self awareness and the ability to exercise true free will). That's why the Catholic Church has social doctrines and sees cultures and belief systems as critical in bringing the Gospel to people. God needs our cooperation if the Holy Spirit is to be effective in transforming lives."

26 May 2012 at 19:30  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

It wasn'tjust Catholics who killed in the name of Christ, now was it?

You have heard of the Forty Martyrs of England and Wales? A group of men and women who were executed in England between 1535 and 1679 because of their Catholic faith?

Many were convicted under show trials or without trials. All were subjected to the religious oppression under the Tudors and Stuarts as part of the Protestant purge that lasted for hundreds of years.

Lets not even mention Ireland and Oliver Cromwell's brutality and the so called 'Glorious Revolution'!

Then there's the Protestants who killed other Protestants. Have you not heard of the Scottish "Killing Time" when the English Anglican Church brutally killed Covenanters?

Politics and religion - greed and a lust for power motivate protestants too, wouldn't you agree? I mean, isn't that what's wrong with capitalism driven by the protestant ethic?

27 May 2012 at 01:38  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Blofeld: "As Arab Christians and Jews do not participate in honour killing, it is therefore an Islamic thing, is it not!"

A cultural thing.

27 May 2012 at 10:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0. A cultural thing

The point is that it is prevalent in certain Islamic countries, under the all controlling eye of the clerics. Islam requires full submission to the will of their god, so we can only conclude that the clerics are complicit with the practice because it truly is the will of their god.

27 May 2012 at 12:29  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector

I actually agree with DanJo on this one. So called 'honour killings' is a cultural issue and predates religion - its tribal and linked to the idea that a womans sexuality is 'owned' by her family. It is (or has been) prevalent in Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and in Christianity too. There's plenty of research on it. Nowadays, its predominantly Asian and Arab communities where it is most common. In Africa in general and Uganda in particular, it takes place and Christianity is used as a justification.

It's a truly despicable crime and some of the reported cases are horendous. In Asia and the Middle East the authorities, secular and religious, Hindu and Islam, often turn a blind eye to these evil acts.

27 May 2012 at 18:22  
Blogger Oswin said...

Look, they're just a bunch of demented natives, is all.

28 May 2012 at 19:10  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin

There are some who see a link between mental illness and 'honour killings' in Western society. Let's face it, there's a certain insanity in all tribal beliefs - British ones included.

29 May 2012 at 00:12  
Blogger Oswin said...

Dodo, give it a rest.

29 May 2012 at 02:33  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin, very erudite and considered.

29 May 2012 at 20:15  
Blogger Oswin said...

Yes, I thought so too. It's a knack I have.

30 May 2012 at 01:37  
Blogger jimbo78 said...

I'm afraid that this brave man will simply be punished for his courage.. Pakistan is a real worry, and we must do all we can to raise the profile of this man and pray for and work for his immediate release.

30 May 2012 at 02:16  
Blogger Dodo the Dude said...

Oswin, its a knack for sure.

1 June 2012 at 00:30  

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