Saturday, July 21, 2012

Why does the South East Gospel Partnership tolerate anti-Semitism?

Earlier this year, His Grace brought to your attention the anti-Semitic tendencies of Church of England vicar the Rev Dr Stephen Sizer. The charges against him have been widely reported and discussed in the Church Times, the Church of England Newspaper, the Jewish Chronicle, and Standpoint.

Considering the evidence, it beggars belief that any reasonable person can find the allegations against him to be unjustified. Yet the Committee of the South East Gospel Partnership do indeed remain un-persuaded.

His Grace posts this Open Letter on behalf of those named below, in the hope that the Committee will reconsider their association with Stephen Sizer, or that members of SEGP churches may consider the evidence and change their minds individually. The allegations contained therein are supported by an entire corpus of evidence.

For example, the video beneath, in which Dr Sizer equates the Holocaust with the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. That amounts either to Holocaust denial or to the most appalling slander of the Jewish State. Earlier this year, Baroness Tonge was forced out of the Liberal Democrats in the House of Lords for remarks about Israel which were far less offensive. It is the task of the Church to set an example to the World, rather than the other way round.
An Open Letter to the South East Gospel Partnership about Anti-Semitism

Among the many people and organisations who have declined to take action against the anti-Semitism of Rev. Dr Stephen Sizer is a group called the South East Gospel Partnership. Its Chairman is Rev. William Taylor of St Helen’s Bishopsgate, and its Committee is made up of Rev. Trevor Archer of the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches, Rev. Iain Broomfield of Christ Church Bromley, Rev. Richard Coekin of the Co-Mission network of churches, Rev. Charles Dobbie of Holy Trinity Lyonsdown, Nick McQuaker of Christ Church Haywards Heath, Brian O’Donoghue of St Helen’s Bishopsgate, Rev John Ross of Farnham Baptist Church, and Rev. Simon Smallwood of St George’s Dagenham.

Recently we asked them to join Nigel McCulloch, Bishop of Manchester, in publicly criticizing Dr Sizer for posting a link to an extreme anti-Semitic website, and on the basis of that offence and others to exclude Christ Church Virginia Water (Dr Sizer’s church) from their organisation.

In their response they did not engage with a single charge that we made about Dr Sizer. They concluded by saying they saw ‘no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen’. Here are the charges that were brought to the Committee's attention:

- Posting links to at least four different anti-Semitic websites, and offering demonstrably false explanations by way of defence: 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Offering unqualified support for Raed Salah, a notorious anti-Semitic hate preacher and convicted fundraiser for Hamas: 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Spreading recognised anti-Semitic conspiracy theories such as Israeli complicity in 9/11 and the claim that McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Nestlé and L'Oréal 'channel their profits to the Zionist agenda' - and on that false basis promoting a boycott of those four companies (which, being publicly-listed, pay their profits to shareholders of every nationality): 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Appearing repeatedly on Press TV, a TV station renowned for its anti-Semitism and aptly described by Daily Express columnist Stephen Pollard as 'the propaganda arm of the world's leading funder of terror': 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Describing regular Israeli troops photographed at ease in a street as 'Herod's soldiers operating in Bethlehem today', an unashamedly anti-Semitic blood libel: 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Hosting an event on behalf of the ‘Islamic Human Rights Commission’, an organisation that refuses to co-operate with the British police and openly calls for the nations neighbouring Israel to ‘release their armies to burn that land’: 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

- Seeking to divert money donated to the Christ Church Virginia Water mission fund to George Galloway's Hamas-supporting organisation 'Viva Palestina': 'no justifiable grounds for breaking gospel partnership with Stephen.'

We offered to provide evidence to back up all of the above claims. The Committee did not take up the offer. We also pointed out that no one, including Dr Sizer, has been able to find any inaccuracy in any of those charges.

What particularly troubles us is our firm sense that if a vicar belonging to the SEGP had posted links to four anti-black websites, such as Ku Klux Klan white supremacist sites, he would have been quickly excluded from the organisation. If that assumption is correct, the SEGP Committee are not demonstrating impartiality. As the Bible says, ‘Differing weights and differing measures - the LORD detests them both.’

Perhaps the SEGP Committee might say that what we see as anti-Semitism is in fact legitimate political criticism of the state of Israel. We invite people to review the charges above and decide for themselves.

The SEGP Committee might also point to the decision by the police earlier this year not to prosecute Dr Sizer for the incitement of racial hatred. Yet that decision was based solely on the police’s judgement that the racist material which Dr Sizer had publicised was not likely to incite hatred to the point of a disruption in public order. They raised no doubts about whether Dr Sizer had linked to the material.

Finally, the SEGP Committee might also quote the numerous statements made by Dr Sizer condemning anti-Semitism. Yet sadly Dr Sizer's word cannot be trusted. This was proven when he recently insisted that the first time he was alerted to the presence of a link to a racist website on his Facebook page was on 3rd January. The Diocese of Guildford, however, has confirmed that he sent an email acknowledging receipt of a complaint about that same link on 22nd November. The SEGP Committee were made aware of this, yet it did not seem to affect their wholehearted support for Dr Sizer.

We take no pleasure whatsoever in publicly airing this disagreement. But in the last analysis, racism is worthy of whistleblowing. We very much hope that the evangelical community will react better than the Roman Catholic church to fact-based whistleblowing. Sadly, thus far, that has not proven to be the case. An evangelical leader has posted links to racist websites, his explanations have then been exposed as false, and yet nothing has been done about it. Two questions have driven us to write this open letter: 'When is it ever acceptable for an evangelical to post links to racist websites?'; and, ' 'Why are other evangelicals refusing to take action in response?' It's because we can't think of any satisfactory answers to those questions that we have taken this step.

The Committee of the SEGP are good men. And so we appeal with hope to members of their churches to persuade them to act in a righteous, impartial way. The history of the Christian church has repeatedly been stained by anti-Semitism. Our prayer is that in this case the church will take redemptive action.

Rev. Nick Howard
Assistant Minister, Christ Church New York City

James Mendelsohn
Senior Lecturer in Law, Huddersfield University

271 Comments:

Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

See, I was with them right up until this:

"We very much hope that the evangelical community will react better than the Roman Catholic church to fact-based whistleblowing."

What has this to do with the subject in hand?

21 July 2012 at 10:20  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

What has this to do with the subject in hand?

Its called a comparator. Comparing something with a standard.!

E S Blofeld

21 July 2012 at 10:36  
Blogger Andy Field said...

I find it very upsetting that a fellow Christian would elevate undoubted injustices by the state of Israel up to a level with the Holocaust. A claim that cannot withstand intellectual scrutiny. Anti semitism is as repugnant as any other form of racism and needs to be roundly repudiated by the church.

21 July 2012 at 11:15  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Another useful idiot with ostriches for peers.

21 July 2012 at 12:53  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

I'd like to see more evidence for these charges.

In the video clip which Dr Sizer seemingly equates the Holocaust with the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians is one short sentence from a much longer interview given to 'The Heart of the Matter'. It needs to be considered within his full views - agree with them or disagree.

So far as I understand it, the interview is a theological critique of Christian fundamentalism and Christian-Zionism as well as political-Zionists.

Google Stephen Sizer on Youtube and make your own minds up.

21 July 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger James said...

The evidence is set out most fully here, with hyperlinks to the relevant websites etc:

http://hurryupharry.org/2011/12/27/rev-nick-howard-the-church-of-england-must-take-action-against-rev-stephen-sizer/

Note that it was posted over six months ago, was widely disseminated, and not a single charge has been refuted, whether by Stephen Sizer or anyone else.

21 July 2012 at 13:46  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

James

Thank you.

Whilst polemical in nature, the conclusion of the article is hard to escape unless answered:

"It would have been perfectly possible for Stephen Sizer to criticise Israel without posting links on Facebook to racist websites; or joining forces with recognised anti-Semites across the world; or, when accused of anti-Semitism, turning to a known anti-Semite for support; or alluding to the archetype of the Christ-killing Jew; or downplaying the Holocaust by using the same word to describe Israel’s actions towards the Palestinians; or promoting the global Zionist conspiracy myth; or endorsing a disgraced journalist’s call for Jews to ‘get the hell out of Palestine’; or spreading the outrageous myth of Israeli involvement in 9/11; or making distasteful references to Monica Lewinsky’s Jewishness; or backing the anti-Semitic hate preacher Sheikh Salah ... They do not demonstrate permissible criticism of the state of Israel. They demonstrate a mixture of explicit anti-Semitism; implicit anti-Semitism; and complicity with anti-Semites."

There is a serious theological debate to be had on Christian fundamentalism and Christian-Zionism, as well as political Zionism. Assuming these charges to be accurate, and they appear not to have been answered, all people like Sizer do is create a climate preventing this taking place.

21 July 2012 at 14:44  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 July 2012 at 14:44  
Blogger Simon said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 July 2012 at 15:52  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

For almost 1800 years the Church at large, both Catholic and Protestant, has maintained that due to the fact the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God poured out His wrath on them in 70 AD, destroying their nation and their temple, and that He has washed His hands of them forever, leaving them with no hope or purpose whatsoever as a nation amongst nations of the earth.
To speak concisely , because of their rebellion against God in their rejection of Jesus, God has therefore replaced Israel with the Church, transferring all the blessings promised to Israel to the Church. This is called “Replacement Theology,” and unfortunately those who believe in it constitute the majority of professing Christians today.

They consider modern day Israel to be a terrible accident of history caused by the atrocities of Germany nazis, with no spiritual significance whatsoever and therefore, they obviously deny that God has any special plans for the Jewish people in these end times. To Whether Roman Catholics or Protestants, the regathering of the Jews and the re-establishment of Israel are simply accidents of history, with no spiritual significance.

Ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews (excepting Job and Luke).

Anti-Semitism continues today in a new more sophisticated form called anti-Zionism. Whereas anti-Semitism sought to drive out the Jews from the lands where they lived, the angle approached by anti-Zionism refuses to accept their right to live in their own land.

These people say the land promises specific to Israel in the Old Testament were fulfilled under Joshua. But not content with this lie they further state that the present secular state of Israel ... is not an authentic or prophetic realisation of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ’s kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in ‘the land,’ by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices.

We have therefore rejected promises and prophecy from God declaring this not to be true....and we wonder hy it is so difficult to share the Gospel with Jews.

What does the Almighty declare;

Psalm 105:8-11

8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an EVERLASTING covenant: 11 Saying , Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance.

E S Blofeld.

21 July 2012 at 15:53  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Concerning the claim made by some here, that the Jews have been rejected by God, there are a couple of biblical principles that need to be kept in mind when making such claims.

1. the Bible affirms that the Jews were called as God’s Chosen People to be witnesses of what it means to have a relationship with Him (Isaiah 43:10-12). And the Bible makes it clear that this calling is “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29).
2. in direct contradiction of Replacement Theology, the Bible teaches that the Jews have never been rejected by God because of their unbelief. In Romans 3 Paul asserts point blank that their rejection of Jesus has not nullified God’s faithfulness to the promises He has made to them (Romans 3:1-4). Paul makes the point again in Romans 11:1 when he asks, “I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He?” He answers his own question with an emphatic statement: “May it never be! ... God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew” (Romans 11:2).

Jeremiah states
Jeremiah 30:11 - “For I am with you,” declares the Lord, “to save you; for I will destroy completely all the nations where I have scattered you, only I will not destroy you completely. But I will chasten you justly, and will by no means leave you unpunished.”
God has preserved them in His grace because He loves them.

In Zechariah 2:8 God proclaims that the Jewish people are “the apple of His eye,” and He warns against anyone trying to harm them.

Another reason they have been preserved is because God is determined to bring a great remnant to salvation (Isaiah 10:20-22). This promise is made repeatedly throughout the Hebrew Scriptures and is confirmed by Paul in the New Testament in Romans 9-11. The salvation of this remnant is described in detail in Zechariah 12:10 where it says that at the end of the Tribulation the remaining Jews will come to the end of themselves and will turn their hearts to God in repentance and accept Jesus as their Messiah. That believing remnant will go into the Millennium in the flesh and will comprise the nation of Israel to whom God will fulfill all the promises He has made to the Jews (Isaiah 60-62). During the Millennium the nation of Israel will be the prime nation in the world through whom God will bless all the other nations (Zechariah 8:22-23).

To summarise, the Word of God makes it clear that Israel definitely has a role and a future in the end times, despite what others claim

E S Blofeld.

21 July 2012 at 15:54  
Blogger James said...

To ES Blofeld - thank you. Evangelicals have different views about the future of Israel, which is fine. My guess is that many of those within th SEGP will have views different to yours, which is also fine. However, that does not mean that they should not deal with the anti-Semitism on their doorstep.

21 July 2012 at 15:57  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

James

U&unfortunately it is not that easy as differing views because our attitudes should be in agreement with The Almighty and His purposes, not our own views and baggage.

Let me outline the answer for you briefly:

The Jewish people will be regathered in unbelief from the four corners of the earth (Isaiah 11:11-12). This is the most prolific prophecy in the Old Testament. Incidentally, if God has no purpose left for them, why would He go to the trouble of regathering them?

Their state will be re-established (Isaiah 66:7-8).

They will once again occupy the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:7-8).

All the nations of the world will come against them over the issue of the control of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:2-3).

The Antichrist will come to their rescue by guaranteeing them peace and allowing them to rebuild their temple (Daniel 9:27).

But at the end of 3½ years, the Antichrist will declare himself to be God, and the Jews will reject Him (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4).

The Antichrist will then attempt to annihilate the Jews, and he will succeed in killing two-thirds of them (Revelation 12:13-17 and Zechariah 13:8-9).

At the end of the Tribulation, when the Jews have come to the end of themselves (as we all need to prior to our salvation and accepting Him as our Saviour), they will turn to God and receive Jesus as their Messiah (Zechariah 12:10).

Jesus will return at this point in time, and He will regather all believing Jews to Israel where He will establish them as the prime nation in the world (Deuteronomy 30:1-9).

The blessings of God will flow out to the nations through the Jews during the Millennium (Zechariah 8:22-23).

As you can see James, the Jewish people have a very central role in Bible prophecy and the bringing in of The Kingdom.

E S Blofeld

21 July 2012 at 16:07  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

What a simplistic misrepresentation of 'Replacement Theology' or, as it is more properly termed, 'Supersessionism'!

What is supersessionism? It is the traditional Christian belief that the covenant between God and the People of Israel, established through the mediation of Moses at Mount Sinai, has been replaced or superseded by the 'New Covenant' of Jesus Christ.

This signifies that the Mosaic covenant, with its ritual and dietary requirements, Sabbath observance, etc., is no longer valid for the Jewish people, since God’s revealed will is for Jews, as well as Gentiles, to enter into the New Covenant by baptism and faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled and replaced by the New Covenant in Christ.

The Catholic Church does not teach that the Jewish people themselves are effectively irrelevant in terms of eschatology and Biblical prophecy. For the Catholic Church, the Jewish people are a reminder that the "gifts and calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29).

Catholics recognise an ongoing and unique relationship between the Jewish people, God and the Church. Additionally, the Church teaches that there is an integral continuity between the covenants rather than a rupture.

In 'Lumen Gentium' (1964), the Church states that God "chose the race of Israel as a people" and "set up a covenant” with them, instructing them and making them holy." However, "all these things . . . were done by way of preparation and as a figure of that new and perfect covenant" instituted by and ratified in Christ. In 'Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism' (1985), the Church stated that the "Church and Judaism cannot then be seen as two parallel ways of salvation and the Church must witness to Christ as the Redeemer of all."

In 'Dominus Iesus' (2000), the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states, "There is only one salvific economy" and "God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity. . . . The certainty of the universal salvific will of God does not diminish, but rather increases the duty and urgency of the proclamation of salvation and of conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ"

Are you saying the Mosaic Covenant is still valid for the Jewish people? That they have no need of conversion? Do you support the rebuilding of the Third Temple and the reintroduction of the sacrificial system?

The Church does not teach God has abandoned Jews forever or left with no hope or purpose! Indeed, the current Pope has taught the Jews are God's Chosen People and have a special place in His heart and that Israel has an as yet unknown part to play in salvation history.

As for the Covenant with Abraham and all that very particular and specific interpretation of prophecy, which is very partialin its selection, the Catholic Church has not to my knowledge declared a formal doctrinal position. You see, it doesn't go in for 'end time' speculation and all this talk of 'tribulation'!

21 July 2012 at 16:58  
Blogger David B said...

I know nor more about the views of Dr Sizer than the rather partisan view posted here.

It is a mistake to conflate a view the the semitic Palestinians have had a very raw deal with anti-Semitism.

It is a mistake being opposed to Zionism with anti-Semitism.

It is also a mistake to think that verses in an old book are the work of an authoritative anthropomorphic God, and that such words allow believers in such an entity to ride roughshod over the people who lived there before the modern Israel was founded and their descendants.

David B

21 July 2012 at 17:51  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I see someone up there has been lifting great wodges of text from Wikipedia there about supersessionism. ;)

21 July 2012 at 18:00  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

I've asked before and you disappeared. Try to do better this time.

Are you saying the Mosaic Covenant is still valid for the Jewish people? That they have no need of conversion to Christ? Do you support the rebuilding of the Third Temple and the reintroduction of the sacrificial system?

21 July 2012 at 19:56  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Deft editing of the article by David Reagan at:

www.shema.com/Combating%20Replacement%20Theology/crt-005.php

You left out the awkward parts:

"It is true that the Jewish people are currently under discipline because of their rejection of their Messiah. Over and over in their Scriptures the prophets said they would be disciplined if they were unfaithful, but always the promise was made that they would be preserved."

"The first question most people usually ask ... about Israel in the end times is this: “Why would God continue to pursue such a stubborn and rebellious people?” The answer is that they are witnesses of God, and through them God is demonstrating His unfathomable grace. Only a God of grace would put up with them!"

The Jews under discipline because of their rejection of Christ and unfaithfulness; and the Jews as a stubborn and rebellious people.

21 July 2012 at 20:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Dear Duckie

Old Ernst has been very sneaky over the last few days by ensuring that what he has put can be traced but it was to accomplish a greater purpose which was to capture who are the multi-persona's on display and are they all RC's only.

Think Ernst couldn't have covered tracks if he had wanted to...
It appears that you are too clever by half (proverbial smart ass) but ooooh the chuckles you have given to Ernsty by your 'apocalpse' (revealing).

It appears that His Grace knows the obvious but what a joy it has been for me to track you down and sooo revealing, you crafty jesuit.*Humungous Guffaws*

Ernst 'Poirot' Blofeld.

21 July 2012 at 21:00  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

Perhaps you'd care to translate that gobblygook.

And once you have, could you answer the questions I posed?

21 July 2012 at 21:13  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Dear Mr E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles,

Congratulations on your sleuthing. As you observe, His Grace has long know: it has driven him to the brink of terminating his august blog.

21 July 2012 at 21:14  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Mr Cranmer

Why would you think or say such a thing? You have my ISP address and must know this to be untrue.

21 July 2012 at 21:20  
Blogger non mouse said...

Your Grace, thank you for not terminating. As one of your Communicants who has carried on regardless: I did so in support of your wonderful work, and in good faith that you would prevail!!
___

As always: well said and done, Mr. B :) :)

Incidentally, I especially appreciated that the situation is Ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews (excepting Job and Luke.
Of course Our Lord and Saviour did not hate his own! In The Prioress's Tale,
Chaucer did an insightful take on antisemitism among his contemporaries--many of whom would be Wycliffites rising in protest against RC 'claims of the day.'
----
Another PS: After my mother died, some years ago, the hospice arranged an inter-faith memorial service at the local synagogue. Having never witnessed Jewish worship before, I was completely awed by the experience. It's illogical, I know, but I was unprepared for the feeling - the sense of incredibly ancient traditional roots. Face to face, the tradition demanded my respect for what it is: the origin and source of our own development.

They did nothing beyond hosting the service, but they won me over that day, as surely as some on this site have alienated me from something I quite liked as a child.

21 July 2012 at 21:48  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

As God is my witness, I state clearly and unequivocally:

- I am not, nor have I ever been, a Jesuit or a member of any other religious order. The only Catholic group I am a member of is the Saint Vincent de Paul Society, a voluntary lay group that visits the poor, needy and sick.

- I have only one ID and moniker and have not posted surreptitiously under any other ID since undertaking not to do so a year ago.

- I feel no ill-will towards this blog,its members or its host; quite the reverse,in fact.

Now, I trust this puts an end once and for all this speculation and talk of "sleuthing" and discoveries of ill-doing.

21 July 2012 at 22:12  
Blogger David B said...

I'm lost with what is going on now.

All I know is that I am upfront about my views, and post here under the same name I post at my discussion board, and everywhere else, with the caveat that some places don't accept my usual moniker and have me as davidb or something.

But then I tend to sign my posts as usual

David B

21 July 2012 at 23:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Blofeld. For almost 1800 years the Church at large, both Catholic and Protestant, has maintained that due to the fact the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah, God poured out His wrath on them...etc.

Hmmm. Can’t let that pass without comment old chap. Going back forty years ago and remembering his Carmelite religious education, the Jews rejection of the Christ was held as nothing but an article of regret. And this at a time when a teacher could tell you as it is without someone leaking it to the press and a damn witch hunt taking place. Also, the Carmelites are a disciplined order so when a priest tells you something, he’s not giving you his personal view, but the view of the top man, that’s for sure...

21 July 2012 at 23:04  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Out of interest, why would Dodo being a Jesuit change matters?

And what has this to do with Stephan Sizer?

21 July 2012 at 23:04  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

AIB
From what I can discern, I think the hypothesis is that there is deliberate disruption to this blog by person or persons unknown.

Based on what? Some fantasy of Ernsty that I am a Jesuit with multi-persona or part of a group. Used, I believe, as an excuse when discovered to be plagiarising articles.

His comment bothered me not at all as I'm used to his wierdness. However, to have our host then endorse such an accusation against me was surprising.

21 July 2012 at 23:20  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Your Grace,

I really don't know what an Vicar is doing in the company of George Galloway. That in itself sends alarm bells to my brain.

Interesting comments from Ernsty and Dodo in respect of the replacement theology, which I will admit I hadn't really heard of until I got to this blog. I will have to look up Ernsty's and Dodo's references at some stage. Still the debate (had it got going) doesn't change my pro-Israel, pro-Zionist view or interest in Jewish culture and religion .

21 July 2012 at 23:37  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 July 2012 at 23:48  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Dodo is a high impact personality
and because of this attracts a lot of criticism. If he says he is not adopting other personae then I believe him because he is honest Out of all the Catholics on this blog he is the only one that shows some sort of humanity and compassion. It is important that Protestants realise that Corrigan and his ilk are not the sole representation of Catholics. In fact they do not represent the Catholic spirit at all. Doddles is a very cool dude and I think HG is mistaken about him.

22 July 2012 at 06:23  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Cressida: "If he says he is not adopting other personae then I believe him because he is honest [...]"

Honest? Hardly. Whatever else is going on here, the guy was caught redhanded only the other day lying like a cheap watch. He outright denied googling my moniker for personal details yet had rather unfortunately already posted a very specific detail about me that he could only have got from another site after googling my moniker.

22 July 2012 at 07:07  
Blogger IanCad said...

The "Left Behind" theology of Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye is spreading fast on this blog.
A more unbiblical, sensationalist and deceptive doctrine would be hard to find.
Rooted in the futuristic inventions of the jesuit Francisco Ribera this poisonous eschatology is finding an eager reception in the shallow emotionalism of today's credulous society.
To take one week out of Daniel (9:27) and to project it into the future is an abuse of the Sacred Word that would have the Reformers rolling in their graves.

22 July 2012 at 07:57  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Oh Danjo ...this is all so petty..Cressida de Nova's site has been trawled along with all the search engines by being on this blog...who cares?

Although poetry admittedly is cryptic and not always autobiographical so one would have to know me personally to know what is truth or fiction.

I am not sure what you are referring to but you do have issues with Dodo that you need to resolve..Anyway you have a lot of support from Protestants on this blog simply because so many dislike Dodo. They have declared openly that even though they loathe homosexuality they would support you instead of him. So no need for your Dodo bashing really.

He may have used multiple personae in the past. So what? As long as he was integral about it expressing opinions that fit his belief system,that is fine my me.He is a mensch.I trust him and think he is great(except when I want to kill him:)

Have a champagne breakfast and listen to Jamiroquai.I am. God is good and life is wonderful!

22 July 2012 at 08:10  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Cressida, morality is one of the core subjects here. Things like honesty and integrity and consistency are very important, especially in a colloquial medium where debating positions are part personality. We need to rely on the written word here.

You may be in one of your bright and breezy personality-periods but you asserted that Dodo is honest and very clearly he's happy to lie like a cheap watch and use unethical multiple ID shenanigans. He is demonstrably not honest at all.

22 July 2012 at 08:30  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Incidentally, the googling itself is not a problem though one might consider it a little unethical if one looks inside oneself to discern why one is really doing it. I've set up what might be called an 'information domain' for the moniker I use here and publish into that on the expectation that someone may google to access information about me beyond the place in which I'm commenting. It's not inadvertent nor a mistake.

22 July 2012 at 08:37  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

DanJ0

We've covered all this nonsense. Let me repeat - at the time of your cheap accusation I had not, repeat not, Googled your moniker. Subsqeuently, as I told you, I did and revealing it was too.

You are the one at fault as you persist in this falsehood without evidence. It makes you the person bearing false testimony. So far as last year's events are concerned - do get over yourself and stop rehashing this every time you are in a corner or wish to discredit me.

This is the last time I will engage with you on this subject.

22 July 2012 at 10:30  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

cressida said ...

Thank you for your support. It means a lot to me.

Now these feelings of wanting to kill me ... Unthinkable! This is not good. Should this happen again, I recommend a soak in a warm bath whilst sipping a small gin and tonic, thinking of a tropical island in the Caribbean and listening to Van Morrison.

22 July 2012 at 10:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "You are the one at fault as you persist in this falsehood without evidence."

Dodo, you posted that I live in a one-bedroomed flat. I have never posted that here but I had, however, posted that elsewhere. When asked, you couldn't account for it other than claiming after the fact that you somehow guessed it. Who are you trying to kid, you numpty? The reason you lied was because you were previously affecting outrage at my alleged googling into the personal life of someone else, an allegation subsequently withdrawn by that person on further analysis, and so you were caught in the unenviable position of being guilty of gross hypocrisy, or lying in the hope of bluffing you way out of it. You're just a seedy character through and through.

22 July 2012 at 10:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Subsqeuently, as I told you, I did and revealing it was too."

Yes. You found out I sometimes shop in Tescos despite finding its reference-pricing strategy annoying. You've been trying to dine out on that too. Lol.

22 July 2012 at 12:05  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Duckie

Please stop, the outrage and protestations are sooo hilarious because it is a lie.

Jung would have a field day and thank his lucky stars the perfect narcissist had been presented on a silver plate.

Whether I googled or not is irrelevant as I had another motive in doing it.

The ultimate ego in a group of id's must always take center stage but the ego needs to show his cleverness by declaring he can speak across a myriad of ideas or beliefs and become them and because he can, his belief that he is correct as he can speak as them and display their strengths and weaknesses..or so he thinks.. (the supreme ego..his Romanism) is re-enforced. Goodness..such diversity of characters and subject matter but the supreme always comes through, does it not.

The others (his ids) may castigate him but as he knows it is himself doing the commenting, it is water of a ducks ;-O backside. They merely show the poor RC under unfair attack but other R C's viewing the thread will acknowledge this heroic sacrifice on behalf of Holy Mother Church (The Duck of Rome 'oblatum' itself, as a sweet smell to the nostrils of Benedict).

"As God is my witness, I state clearly and unequivocally:

- I am not, nor have I ever been, a Jesuit or a member of any other religious order (It was a rhetorical quip, you big girl's blouse). The only Catholic group I am a member of is the Saint Vincent de Paul Society, a voluntary lay group that visits the poor, needy and sick." Oh dear Lord, you are hurting my ribs with your equivocating squawks and sanctimonious protestations of innocence.

" I feel no ill-will towards this blog,its members or its host; quite the reverse,in fact." Neither does His Grace show ill will towards you or anyone else here,( else you/we would be stopped in your/our tracks) or we genuine commentators (whoever we may be *chortles*) but it's all about honest commenting here, not to show what a clever smart ass you are!!
Why the other ids?

Surely a religious Superman needs his Lex Luther's..pardon the pun. * Huge guffaws and chuckles*.

Ernst Blofeld

22 July 2012 at 12:06  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Stephen Sizer. When I moved to Bristol about 32 years ago to train at Trinity College it took me some while to figure out why our road was called “Black Boy Hill” and the road next door with all the shops was called “White ladies walk”. I late discovered the ignominious role ports like Bristol and Liverpool played in the slave trade. The many fine buildings in these cities were built with the profits, as was this very church. It is easy to become desensitised to the suffering that occurred in our distant history. The British government has been careful in the way it has expressed sorrow for the past, to avoid a flood of legal claims by the descendants of slaves demanding compensation.

The man is a blithering idiot ! The Inspector is familiar with the part of Bristol he describes. The ‘black boy’ he mention’s is a genus of tree that grew on the hill, and the ‘White Ladies’ was the colloquial name for a school for girls in the area, the uniform being composed of articles white in colour.

Granted that Bristol is built on the profits of the slave trade, but what about the profits of tobacco too. Don’t forget that the white man did not invent African slavery. It was well established there when the traders showed up. Black Africans are the ORIGINAL slavers. Of course, the likes of Sizer won’t mention that. Rather inconvenient when it comes to discrediting western civilisation, but we must also take into account the possibility that if his above first sentence is the extent of his knowledge, he probably has no idea about how slavery came to be.

Sizer, you are a damn thicko, Sir !

22 July 2012 at 12:13  
Blogger bluedog said...

Masterly, Ernst @ 12.06. A tour de force indeed!

22 July 2012 at 12:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Blofeld, are you saying that Cressida is yet another of Dodo's ID creations?

22 July 2012 at 12:23  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

DanJ0 said 22 July 2012 12:23

"Blofeld, are you saying that Cressida is yet another of Dodo's ID creations?"

Oooh me ribs, me ribs! Stop IT ;-) ;-) ;-O

Blofeld

22 July 2012 at 12:29  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Oh lordy, you don't think that I am? Do you? He'd deserve an Oscar to pull something like that off! :O

22 July 2012 at 12:41  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Danjo,

I think Ernsty is now saying that Dodo has created a set of e-strawmen, who argue with him so he can prove his point. The only flaw here is that Dodo clashes with most persons on this space, probably about 90%, except for the Catholic ones. So it doesn't seem quite possible that he could be all of them ( back of fag packet that would be Len, myself, You, Anna Albion, Jon, Carl Jacobs, Avi and Ernsty himself ?) I could understand if the accusation was if Dodo was pretending to be the bulk of the Catholic Id's here, but even so, that's quite a stretch. I really don't know, it doesn't seem practically possible to me.

Or could this be the big double bluff; is Ernsty to Dodo what Palpatine is to Darth Vader? The master and the pupil of blog force? That would be a gwarf!

22 July 2012 at 13:12  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

PS- last paragraph was T in Cheek...

22 July 2012 at 13:14  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

It is rather astonishing that Dodo’s treatment at the hands of his peers (...Pharisees...?) here is far worse than anything the ‘Roman Governor’ of this site could inflict. His ultimate sanction would be execution (...excommunication...), but the bird would be spared his continual torment...

I say fellows, have a care and let the man his fresh start, what !

22 July 2012 at 13:21  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Paul Twigg: "I could understand if the accusation was if Dodo was pretending to be the bulk of the Catholic Id's here, but even so, that's quite a stretch."

His other IDs, the ones I know about anyway, were all Catholic and spent their time bolstering Catholic opinion. Occasionally, he used to switch between them and the Dodo ID to create the illusion of having support. This is why I was wondering if Cressida was another, given that she is providing support now and they share an interest in poetry, albeit just homophobic or silly limericks in the Dodo ID's case.

22 July 2012 at 13:28  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Dodo,

OK, I'll believe you. Not sure why you'd pretend to be Corrigan 1 anyway. I hope your not really Cressida. Then I will be cross

22 July 2012 at 14:06  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Hannah,if I am Dodo,does that mean you will turn for me?

22 July 2012 at 14:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"He'd deserve an Oscar to pull something like that off! :O"

Perhaps but Hopkins got one for his portrayal so hope springs eternal!
Thinking more along the lines opposite in the photo of what he deserves! Wonder if the id's have stopped screaming...*slurp slurp* ;-O

Blofeld

22 July 2012 at 15:19  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Cressida De Dodo,

You being Dodo wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I didn't read all of the comments here and on the other threads since Friday. I see that Danjo has suggested you are Dodo as you are the only one to support him and because of your homophobic poems (something which I wasn't aware of before now- thanks Dan). I would also add that Dodo is the only person you are in any way nice to on this blog, you come across as a man hater. I am a lesbian, but that does not mean I cannot enjoy male company- straight or gay.

I would also ask one question :why are you so vile to me? Even after I stuck up for you after a member of your own faith was tearing you to shreds and being vile to you, you still want to engage in bitchy banter with Dodo regarding me knowing fully well I wasn't able to respond (and your stupid comment regarding turning me above). It is clear now that you have no self respect or respect for me. From day one of me being on this blog, you have done nothing but be vile to me. Why? is what I would like to know.

22 July 2012 at 16:14  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 July 2012 at 16:19  
Blogger IanCad said...

This blog is degenerating rapidly.
Does it really matter who's who?
We are priviliged through HG's hard work to debate issues which effect our liberties and way of life.
C'mon; Let's get back to business.

22 July 2012 at 16:23  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"because of your homophobic poems (something which I wasn't aware of before now- thanks Dan)"

Actually, I was talking about Dodo's. I dunno anything about Cressida's poems. He went through a long phase of writing limericks in lieu of replies, you see. That was after the phase of changing my name into something different each time he replied, and after the phase of quoting lines of a Japanese pop song, if I recall correctly.

22 July 2012 at 16:25  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 July 2012 at 16:35  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Danjo,

I stand corrected re poems.

22 July 2012 at 16:37  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Marcus,

I would suggest it is YOU who are ignorant of Judaism and Jews with your storm front and conspiracy theory esq neo- Fascist views.

22 July 2012 at 16:39  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Eh- that post has now gone. Thank goodness.

22 July 2012 at 16:40  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

I normally have respect for your posting Cranmer, but really, this one takes the biscuit.

Firstly, when we define 'anti semtism', those who have done their research will find that the overwhelming majority of the world's Jewish population are in fact Jewish only through conversion and not through race, that is if you can equate a race as one who follows a certain religion.
There are, if you do not know already, 4 types of Jews.

1. Sephardi
2. Messianic
3. Karaite
4. Ashkenazi

Now, the first 3 types are 'true' Jews, that is they are of Shem and the tribe of Judah and therefore semitic peoples, being of the lands where they are from. The last group, the largest of them all (90-95%), the Ashkenazis, were the people of the Khazarian Empire, under King Bhulan, who converted his pagan people on mass, circa mid 8th century to Judaism, in order to stop inevitable attack from the Islamic and Christian peoples.

The Ashkenazis are therefore 'NON SEMITIC' peoples, but choose to use this term to attack anyone who attacks them. And they are great, primarily because the Ashkenazi follow the Babylonian Talmud over the Torah and see themselves as a superior people to everyone else - the goyim. Ironically, they promote the very same uber/untermensch ideology, as they say Hitler did.

There is debate on whether the Sephardi follow the Torah above the Talmud, but we know that the Messianic and Karaite Jews do not follow the Talmud whatsoever. The main difference between the two is that the Messianic see Christ as the son of God while the Karaites don't.

Jews have been hated for such a long time because of their activities within Europe from the 10th century onwards. It is also ironic as well that not only is the hatred attributed towards the Ashkenazi (non semitic) plastic Jews, but they have been removed, out of all Jewish peoples, the most from many lands (70+ lands 100+ times at last count).
This utter rubbish that they were hated because they killed Christ, is nothing but Zionist propaganda, there to further bolster their persecuted people status. Moreso, we have all been brainwashed into believing this because the MSM is 100% controlled by world Jewry, to be more precise, the Rothschild dynasty, through their many Jewish and non Jewish agents.

The reason that there is a major hatred for the Jews (Ashkenazis) is not only because they are Zionists, but moreso because they have destroyed nations through their usury not forgetting the debatable sacrifices that have been performed by them on the goyim, under their Babylonian Talmud teachings and following of the Kabbalah. It was for these precise reasons that King Edward 1st had had enough and issued the Edict of Expulsion in 1290 upon them. It still stands today, but then considering that the Jews infiltrated the royal family and control the UK and rest of the west (from 1649 onwards), that is why it is ignored.

(cont)

22 July 2012 at 16:47  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

So Mr Cranmer, I would consider doing some research before writing such nonsense as you have on this article. You may be knowledgeable on the Bible, but you are utterly ignorant on Jews, Judaism and the Babylonian Talmud, not forgetting the Kabalah. Come to think of it, so are most of the posters who have replied to you on this article.

To finish, I will say this; there is anti semitism going on as we speak, but not in the west. We will find that anti semitism being conducted upon the Palestinian peoples and the Sephardi, Messianic and Karaite Jews in the middle east, by the non semitic Ashkenazi Jews who have created the illegal state of Israel, which has far more implications as to the reason why it was created, more than you could possibly imagine. We will also find that anti semitism already done upon the Iraqi, Afghanistan, Libyan, currently Syrian and soon to be Jordanian, Lebanese and Iranian peoples, all again under the authority of Ashkenazi, Zionist Jews.

I will simply finish with a quote to understand just what the Ashkenazis are from the bible:

"I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan." - Revelation 2:9

You will find the following links interesting to say the least.

Khazaria—The Myth of Anti-Semitism Exposed at Last!!

Benjamin Freedman Speaks on Zionism

The Life of an American Jew
in Racist Marxist Israel



regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 16:47  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Marcus Mintus. A bit about yourself if you will, perhaps something on your back ground. You will of course realise that your post will be under pressure to be deleted. But freedom of speech is sacrosanct and the Inspector would rather this did not happen. Indeed, your offering is reasoned, and if it is erroneous in what it says, you will be challenged by the erudite...

22 July 2012 at 16:54  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

IanCad: "We are priviliged through HG's hard work to debate issues which effect our liberties and way of life."

At the risk of seeming sycophantic, I have to say I'm actually in awe of the blog owner's ability to knock out well-argued articles almost every day. Of course, they stand on their own despite the stuff that goes on down here at times. Yes, it would be nice if there was less verbal violence down here, and I say that as someone who gives as good as he gets. But hey.

22 July 2012 at 16:57  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

I think Marcus Lintus is a complete and utter fascist sum bag myself. Anyone else?

22 July 2012 at 16:57  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Office of Inspector General,

If freedom of speech were sacrosanct, then there would be no contemplation of removal whatsoever.

As regards to 'a bit about myself', that is absolutely none of your business whatsoever. I do not advertise everything about myself on the internet which has sadly become common practice amongst the sheople.

And the only reason that my reply would be deleted is simply because unlike falsehoods, which can easily be destroyed by truths, truths can only be oppressed, in this case deletion of my reply.

Now, why don't you care to jump into the debate. Why not define to me your views on anti semitic? Will you? Do you understand semantics and that a semite is called such because of the peoples he/she is of?

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:00  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hannah- before you shoot from the hip, there is zero proof that Dodo or Cressida are the same person. She was merely asking you a hypothetical question (I think), although I appreciate in this atmosphere it might be possible to interpret things in a different way. I will agree that it does seem that Cressida seems to dislike you, perhaps it is a fear of lesbians?

22 July 2012 at 17:02  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Hannah Anna Anglican Jew (this week)
Your accusations are almost as ludicrous as the very disturbed malicious humourless narcissistic Danjo's

I am the only one to support Dodo so I must be him?
I come across as a man hater because I am only nice to Dodo?

If this is your line of reasoning
Hannah then I am afraid we have nothing to say to each other.

I am not afraid of supporting anyone who I think merits it and in particular when it involves dealing with a bunch of emasculated cowards who could be rounded up with a pop gun.

To his credit the Inspector has supported Dodo on this thread as well .

22 July 2012 at 17:03  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

The only fascism within my reply was infact that which describes the attitudes of the Israeli Ashkenazi Jews and their oppression of the Palestinian peoples, Karaite, Sephardi and Messianic Jews, not forgetting the Zionist led wars against Iraq in 1985 & 2003, Afghanistan 2001, Libya 2010, currently Syria and soon to be Jordan, Lebanon and Iran.

And please, if you're going to call someone a fuckwit, then at least attempt a debate instead of ad hominem attacks, which sadly makes you look like the fuckwit.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:04  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

To understand fascism better, read my link above to the life of Jack Bernstein in Israel, that is what this American Ashkenazi Jew saw happening there. This man was later murdered by Mossad.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:08  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Marcus,

Inspector was being courteous. I on the other hand will tell you to bugger off.

Why would any one want to debate with you on a serious level, given that the so called 'truth' from your posts can be gleaned from any far right or conspiracy theory website. Next will be the holocaust denial and other such shite.

I have found with people such as your self are best put in a dark corner, where you are left to put your fingers in your ears and hum real loud.

22 July 2012 at 17:08  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

PS- I detest personal attacks, I just have no time for jackboots such as yourself spouting off anti-Jewish lines such as 'they control the world's media and the other conspiracy theories.

22 July 2012 at 17:12  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

"Why would any one want to debate with you on a serious level, given that the so called 'truth' from your posts can be gleaned from any far right or conspiracy theory website. Next will be the holocaust denial and other such shite. "

I have given you links to understand the bigger picture which you choose to ignore, calling them of 'far right conspiracy theory websites'.

It is I who have no need to debate with you simply because what I write of, that is what is the truth, is so far over your head, you could spend the rest of your life climbing yet never, ever reaching it.
You epitomise the complete indoctrination of society, a weak, degenerate, ignorant and immoral people, so far thrown from reality it beggars belief.

Now, I won't tell anyone to bugger off. I find it rude. However, I simply prefer to ignore them.

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:14  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Cressida,

That's fine with me, I really don't like you, your constant attacks upon me are horrible.

I actually think the Catholics you dislike (that is all of them, except Dodo) are more representative of your faith than you/ you don't like the world or the men on this blog (except Dodo). But for closure on this , can you or Dodo please answer why you constantly make bitchy subtle remarks about me all of the time, even when I am NICE to YOU? You know you do it and it is very hurtful to me. That's all I want to know- do you not like Lesbians, Anglicans, Jews? What is it?.

PS- for your information (this has been said before) ;

1. I was Anglican in so much as going to an Anglican Church and going to an Alpha Course and to Church on days like Christmas. I am not baptised. My monkier was attempting to get across my English culture, as much as a religion.

2. My mother was a Jew and therefore I am a Jew as well and was brought up with this culture as well, I just haven't been very 'religious' about that part of my heritage, most of my other siblings are religious Jews to varying degrees.

3. It was thanks to yourself in one of your rants to me, who suggested I spoke to a Rabbi and I did (along with many other friends and family). So thanks for you help actually.

22 July 2012 at 17:27  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Marcus,

I bet you've read Mein Kampf several times already haven't you? You are the f-wit here and not Paul.

22 July 2012 at 17:28  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

There are three kinds of conspiracy theorist:

1. Those who deal with fact.
2. Those who deal with fiction.
3. Those who deal with both.

Now, the latter of the three is better known as a disinformation agent, such as the likes of Alex Jones and David Icke who will tell a lot of truth but send people off on wild goose chases or completely denying overwhelming truth.

I am no 1 in the above list. I deal with fact. I do not go into debates on Lizards, Aliens, Nibiru, Planet X etc etc or Maian prophecies. I look at history and take it apart.

You ridicule me because you have been so indoctrinated that anything contrary to your belief on reality is simply a lie. In other words, you will not accept the truth for the obvious reason that your reality is one that has been built on a foundation of falsehoods, driven home by the highly controlled education system and MSM. Anything that is polar to your philosophy on life is so abhorrent, the only way you can possibly respond is ad hominem attacks with liberal slur words, created for the sole purpose to destroy debate by trying to destroy your opponent.

I wouldn't debate with you because you have proven already, in this short time, that you are incapable not only of debate, but are oblivious to actually what has and is going on in this world.

In other words Paul, debating with you would be like debating with a 5 month old on what the chemical formula for jet fuel was.

Until you wake up from your MSM induced slumber, you will forever be nothing more than an ignoramus, oblivious to the dystopia being built around you.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:36  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Hannah Albion- Halakha,

Even though my above reply to Paul was my last, I did so (although I said I would ignore him) for the simple reason to give a quick summation on what a conspiracy theorist was. It is appropriate to you also. I have no desire in discussing anything with you whatsoever.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:41  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Marcus Mintus. Have done a bit of research on the author Jack Bernstein. It appears he is who he says he is and wrote of his experiences, or ‘was who he said he was’, as he may have been a victim of the Israeli security service.

You must forgive a fellow into inquiring into your background. One seeks to determine the providence of an offering so stark in it’s message as yours. Otherwise we could be devouring so much propaganda.

Interestingly, we do have a pro Israeli contributor to this site who, well let’s say he brooks no dissent, when it comes to the validity of Israel.

It is left to us, the informed of this site, to trawl through the bones of what we have before us and come to a reasoned position, don’t you think ?

22 July 2012 at 17:42  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

OK Marcus, if that is how you feel, it was a joy not to have to pick your fiction apart bit by bit, but as I am five year old who doesn't understand rocket fuel, we will never have the chance to do so.

PS- your seriously suggesting the Martins are not involved in your New World Order conspiracy?

22 July 2012 at 17:44  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Harbinger, we're all products of our society to some extent and we usually get our information from common sources but you must realise that calling the people "sheople" and setting yourself up as having special knowledge and insight tends to be a bit indicative of certain things.

22 July 2012 at 17:46  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Marcus,

I know a guy like you wouldn't discuss anything with a mere Jew.

22 July 2012 at 17:50  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

Office of Inspector General,

You come across as a well read gentleman and for that I will show you back the courtesy to that of which you have shown me.

I am not privy towards the handing over of personal information on a whim, moreso because I respect one's right to privacy, seeing as it defines individual liberty and above all freedom. It is however safe to say that what I write I do so after a lot of research, for my journey in life is one of promoting the truth and exposing of lies.

I do not frequent Cranmer's site often. I only do so if I see an interesting headline from another blog. I will peruse from time to time, but have only, on minimal occasion, ever contributed as a poster.

Well, I do agree that we should reason through debate and that can only be done by critical thought and producing of facts before all or if not with an unquestionable hypotheses.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:50  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Inspector,

If you take that nutter seriously, then G-d help you.

PS- Thanks again Cressida (xx), you've really energized me in ways I cannot begin to explain- lots of hugs and kisses to you and Dodo xxxxx (If you really are the same person- which I am not really sure about).

22 July 2012 at 17:52  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@DanJ0,

Calling someone ignorant today often draws offense back even though to call someone ignorant merely means to be unknowledgeable of a subject. I will, quite happily in conversation state that I am ignorant on said debate and bow out gracefully.

Calling people sheople again, although taken as an insult is a very appropriate word to describe those who are not prepared to question. If the truth therefore offends, should we lie in order not to? Of course I do not think that we should. Offend and pay the price 'for the truth shall set you free'. Now I'm sure someone rather important once said that did he not?

And I do not have special knowledge. That which I do know is readily available for all who are prepared to look for it, read it, question it and understand it.
I am not part of any society that witholds esoteric knowledge from the masses. I am merely a truthseeker who sets out to destroy the lies of which many people stand upon in argument.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 17:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I'm still intrigued by Blofeld's earlier stuff by the way. Surely some sort of dénouement is due shortly?

You know, I've been on the Internet since the start of usenet, and I was actually involved in JANET before that. People were rather less careful about their personal data back and I learnt the hard way to be more careful.

In fact, I attracted someone rather like Dodo on usenet and he looked up my details on a public database as I'd disclosed I was a director of a company. He then published my name, address, and telephone number. Except, it wasn't mine as he'd made a mistake along the way. I shudder to think what happened to the poor victim there. Oh dear.

But anyway, I rather hope any forthcoming dénouement regarding Dodo isn't along those lines. I'd just like to know if he's been doing more dubious stuff here.

22 July 2012 at 17:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Marcus Mintus. Thank you for explaining your position. This man offers his own controversy on a few subjects, and is relieved he has the privacy of the site to comfort himself with. You see, what he himself comes out with doesn’t always go down too well. {AHEM}...

Anna. Sweet thing that you are, the Inspector has noticed a trend of the last couple of weeks of you behaving like some precocious undergraduate, desperately scribbling down notes of a complaining nature, to present to the Student Union with a view to getting one society or another proscribed. Now, if you are going to enjoy this site, note the word ‘enjoy’, you really will have to toughen up a little. They are using live ammunition here, the grown ups, so with that in mind, keep your pretty head down until you are sure of yourself to be able to return fire.

pip pip !

22 July 2012 at 18:10  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Danjo,

Suspect that Ernsty wants to keep this open as long as he can for the gloating factor. His Grace's endorsement was the shock factor in all of this for me.

22 July 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Hannah Albion- Halakha,

"I know a guy like you wouldn't discuss anything with a mere Jew."

Oh vey, woe is me, one of the persecuted....

I have debated with many Jews in my time. I do not discriminate on race or religion. However I do not entertain people who come across as juvenile and disrespectful, immediately launching into name calling at another because they disagree with their summation.

This is why I have no desire to debate with you. Although I replied to Paul, it was also a reply to you as well. You are both rude and ignorant and it would hold you both in good stead were you to respect the views of another (although you may well disagree) and stop childish attacks, pertaining people to be and/or belonging to something they are not.

regards

Harbinger

22 July 2012 at 18:15  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Marcus,

Yet the first line of your reply had those casual anti-Jew tones one detected in your posts.

Calling a race of people "plastic Jews" is not name calling? Writing up a whole pack of lies isn't juvenile? Being a Jew hater is mature? Calling Jews 'satanic' is a gentlemanly way to debate is it?

Not in my book. Which is why you deserve the response you got from me.

22 July 2012 at 18:30  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Inspector,

Well you are right. No more cuddly Hannah, it will be Shayetet 13 Hannah from now on (and my twin sister might be getting a blog too- then it would be double trouble!).

22 July 2012 at 18:32  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Good for you Anna / Hannah . It will be character building and you will go forward all the stronger for it...

22 July 2012 at 18:47  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hannah or Anna,

Forgetting your a hot intelligent babe (along with your arch rival Cressida),you are a bit of a whirlwind jumping from one thought to the next- I think it might be your brain on overload, but a good example is one second you like Dodo, the next he is some-one else, who you do like, then they are not and then your sending them hugs and kisses!? The point I'm making is try and be a bit more consistent in your views. You do seem to flip flop quite a lot.

22 July 2012 at 19:02  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

His Grace's endorsement is a shock factor for me also, Paul. Why would HG endorse a wild series of unsubstantiated accusations against Dodo?If he dislikes him to that extent why not be more Christian about this matter and tell him he is no longer welcome here rather than subject him to the vilification of very questionable accusers without any proof. At least Blofeld should give us the facts. What has his sleuthing uncovered?
It will be nothing of course because there is nothing.

22 July 2012 at 19:42  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Agreed. What is it you have on our feisty bird, Blofeld. Out with it now, you rascal - put up or shut up...

22 July 2012 at 19:59  
Blogger John Magee said...

Are people in Britain aware of one of the greatest nutters in the USA today named Louis Farrakhan who is the leader of the Nation of Islam in the USA? Farrakhan has created his own Black Nationalist version of Islam that naturally hates whites, the Pope, Jews, the USA, gays, non black Christians, and a long list of other "enemies" he drones on endlessly about for hours during his Hitleresque "sermons". He also claims to have contact with a UFO mothership hovering over Mexico. The beings on the mothership give him topics for his lengthy rants to his hysterical followers. Farrakhan maybe crazy but he is not to be ignored and is supported by millions of blacks in the USA. If you are ever bored look him up on Youtube. In spite of his insane rantings he has the unique ability to manipulate a crowd like another lunatic, Adolf Hitler, who's style I suspect he studies from films of the Nazi era.

22 July 2012 at 20:09  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "What is it you have on our feisty bird, Blofeld. Out with it now, you rascal - put up or shut up..."

I'm hoping it's that he's actually Cardinal O'Brien in real life.

22 July 2012 at 20:15  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Paul,

You've just gone from one of the nicest men on this blog to the horriblest creature in the world! As usual it is a matter of Catholics closing ranks I guess.

22 July 2012 at 20:22  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hannah,

Not at all. As said before I am not a Roman Catholic, nor have I ever been. If I were I would not 'close ranks' just because some-one else was a Catholic. As for being nasty, there are far more nasty people out there than me. I wrote as a friend in order to help you.

22 July 2012 at 20:47  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

"As usual it is a matter of Catholics closing ranks I guess." (my emphasis)

Again prefacing this by making it clear that I am not a Catholic either, but you have been making a number of comments in the last few days that taken in the round seem surprisingly anti-Catholic. The "edge" to your comments and all that.

Fair enough to defend yourself if you feel you're being unreasonably picked on, or if you regard the substance of an arugment as being wrong, but you of all people shouldn't have to be told how invidious a mind-set that starts conflating perceived character flaws with religious or ethnic identity. Especially in the context of your exchanges with Marcus Mintus/Harbinger.

22 July 2012 at 22:10  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Gentiles are a law unto themselves at times, if what he does comes from the heart, then it must be of the law, surely

22 July 2012 at 22:18  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

If there is evidence against Dodo, then it should be presented for evaluation. Vague allegations amount to little more than slander. Frankly I am unimpressed by unsubstantiated claims of "sleuthing." As it stands, Dodo has denied the charge and nothing on this thread has persuaded me that he is lying.

carl

22 July 2012 at 22:54  
Blogger Jase the Bass said...

This is strange stuff on a Christian blog...

22 July 2012 at 23:01  
Blogger Jase the Bass said...

For the ABC cranmer,
I enjoy and respect your opinion, but now I would suggest that you treat others as you yourself would like to be treated.
1. You name and shame others while using a pseudonym. I understand tbe usefulness of the moniker, but play fair, at least be courteous without lobbing stones from behind anonymity.
2. You have made your case against Stephen Sizer, and asked the folk at segp to look into it. These are, generally speaking, good folk and godly leaders. It would be appropriate now to let them digest the material. You did not like the ASA heckling you.so let them do their job, and if they disagree with you, let it go. Mat. 18.16f

Your humble servant, rev Jason

22 July 2012 at 23:18  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 July 2012 at 23:23  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

I have missed an interesting day.

Ernsty - are you completely crazy or just looking to cause trouble? That or you are seeking to cover your embarrassment at being exposed as a sham who copies others articles. I simply cut and pasted extracts from 'your' comments, traced the source through a search on Google and suddenly I become an arch-conspirator! Either I have a number of fake ID's supporting Catholicism or a series of fake ID's feigning 'attacks' Catholicism. Do get real!

Logically, this means I might be one or all of: Albert, Inspector, Cressida, Shacklefree, Corrigan and possibly Anonymous in Belfast. Alternatively, I might be one or all of those I argue against: Carl, Len, Preacher, Bluedog, DanJ0, Anna, Avi, Jon and whoever. The only one who could be classed as a 'strawman' would be len and he'd be mortified by the accusation.

Yet you've hedged your bets on all the options.

So do put up your 'evidence' or retract it and apologise. Bearing false witness is a serious sin for someone claiming to be a professing Christian.

Mr Cranmer, you have remained silent which is your priviledge. However, you have positively endorsed a serious and spurious accusation against me. It is a ridiculous fantasy based on imagination.

Have you no more to say?

22 July 2012 at 23:28  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Rev'd Jase the Bass,

His Grace thanks you for your contribution.

1. He has never lacked courtesy.

2. He is fully aware that the named individuals are, as you say, 'good folk and godly leaders'. It would indeed be appropriate now to let them digest the material. His Grace has said nothing further since posting the material. Where and how is he 'heckling'?

22 July 2012 at 23:36  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Paul,

Please accept my sincere apologizes, I had no right to treat you in such a ghastly fashion.

22 July 2012 at 23:41  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Marcus Mintus suggests that: "This utter rubbish that they were hated because they killed Christ, is nothing but Zionist propaganda".

Having seen, in person, handwritten manuscripts from the 15th Century wherein the "crime" of the Jews is explicitly described as the deicide of Christ, I'm afraid this one doesn't hold much water with me. Unless, of course, Marcus has evidence that "international Jewry" has successfully infiltrated the world's archives with a wealth of astoundingly good forgeries.

Cranmer provided us with an article that poses a specific question about anti-semitism (which, Marcus, I take to mean opposition to people identifying as Jews on account of that identity, irrespective of the extent of their religious views, or their ethnicity). Not merely, how does one respond to it, but how should Christians respond to it.

Jesus lived in occupied Palestine, whose people were awaiting and in some cases actively seeking a Messiah who would definitively settle the matter of the occupiers. There is virtually no record of this constituting a large part of his teaching - and indeed, the absence of any direct evidence to support accusations of anti-Roman sentiment at His trial suggest that this is not just an ommission by Scripture. What we do know is that Christ called a quisling tax collector and a zealot to be His brothers and disciples.

This was not, I'd suggest, a liberal attempt at tolerance and inclusivity: He did not call His disciples in order to fulfil a quota. He called them all to be men of peace. Christians following His example cannot be anti-Semitic, any more than they can be anti-Human. To hate somebody, to call them enemy and then actively seek not merely to oppose them but to hinder and even harm them is not Christian witness. We are commanded to love our enemy, and to seek the means by which we might establish brotherhood with our enemy in a manner pleasing to God.

There is always a temptation to respond as Christians by directing our energies and attention to political solutions. Even if we do so entirely untainted by hatred or prejudice for either side, we run the risk of getting led astray. The question of what Christ would do in modern-day Israel is not wholly dissimilar from what He did in 1st Century Palestine: He made brothers of men who hated one another. He healed the servant of one who politically should have been His enemy. He praised faith where He found it and criticised evil wherever it festered in men's hearts, irrespective of what identity they claimed. He called all people to a new identity in fellowship with God.

I'm not sure if that means the correct thing to do with Stephan Sizer is break fellowship with him, but I do know that the correct thing to do is to refuse to partake in hatred of others. To refuse also, slander without evidence. In short, to behave as people living in the light, not sheltering from it.

22 July 2012 at 23:44  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Le'slook at the 'evidence'. It's based on amateur pop psychology and embarrassment.

Ernsty said ...

"Please stop, the outrage and protestations are sooo hilarious because it is a lie."

Proof? I prefaced it with an oath I take seriously.

"Jung would have a field day and thank his lucky stars the perfect narcissist had been presented on a silver plate."

That would be Freud?

"Whether I googled or not is irrelevant as I had another motive in doing it."

Tut, tut ... highly relevant ... embarrassed are we?

"The ultimate ego in a group of id's must always take center stage but the ego needs to show his cleverness by declaring he can speak across a myriad of ideas or beliefs and become them and because he can, his belief that he is correct as he can speak as them and display their strengths and weaknesses..or so he thinks.. (the supreme ego..his Romanism) is re-enforced. Goodness..such diversity of characters and subject matter but the supreme always comes through, does it not."

Been reading 'Women's Weekly' have we? It troubles you I can speak across a diverse range of ideas? This proves what exactly?

"The others (his ids) may castigate him but as he knows it is himself doing the commenting, it is water of a ducks ;-O backside. They merely show the poor RC under unfair attack but other R C's viewing the thread will acknowledge this heroic sacrifice on behalf of Holy Mother Church (The Duck of Rome 'oblatum' itself, as a sweet smell to the nostrils of Benedict)."

I'm afraid you are actually ignorant on how 'Dissociative Identity Disorders' manifest. Give up now.

""As God is my witness, I state clearly and unequivocally:
- I am not, nor have I ever been, a Jesuit or a member of any other religious order
(It was a rhetorical quip, you big girl's blouse). The only Catholic group I am a member of is the Saint Vincent de Paul Society, a voluntary lay group that visits the poor, needy and sick." Oh dear Lord, you are hurting my ribs with your equivocating squawks and sanctimonious protestations of innocence."


Why is that equivocating or sanctimonious? It is the simple truth. And I would never speak in these terms if it were not true.

"" I feel no ill-will towards this blog,its members or its host; quite the reverse,in fact." Neither does His Grace show ill will towards you or anyone else here,( else you/we would be stopped in your/our tracks) or we genuine commentators (whoever we may be *chortles*) but it's all about honest commenting here, not to show what a clever smart ass you are!!"

Ah, it's because your arguments have been shown to be weak! Recently you have 'disappeared' at critical points in our discussions. Is this your motive?

"Why the other ids?"

There are none!

"Surely a religious Superman needs his Lex Luther's..pardon the pun. * Huge guffaws and chuckles*."

You may find the sheer lunacy in this post as cause for chortles, chuckles and guffaws.

I do not.

22 July 2012 at 23:46  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 July 2012 at 23:48  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Belfast,

I was going to write some stupid reply, but I've deleted it. I apologise if you think I'm being anti-catholic to all the catholics here, hugs and kisses xxxxx.

22 July 2012 at 23:50  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Also Mr Belfast,

Really good response to Marcus, but I suspect he won't want to debate with you either.

22 July 2012 at 23:57  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Dodo

I may be wrong, but I suspect the best outcome for a hearing will not lie with your peers here amongst Cranmer's "congregation". Ernsty has already been clear that he regards whatever behaviour he attributes to you as deriving from your Catholicism. Cranmer's own recent unqualified support for a BBC article that plays straight anti-Catholic sentiment does not seem to render him the most conducive to favour you either if he shares Ernsty's views (obviously, I'm only able to go on what Cranmer posts and comments, further clarification may render this point null).

You've defended your position, and you've been, as far as I can make out, honest about past use of multiple IDs. I'd leave it up to Heaven now. If Ernsty really has evidence, he'll bring it forth, and we'll all be in a better place to have some idea of what the hell he is talking about. It may very well prove to be wrong: DanJ0 mentioned earlier the dangers of the misattribution of evidence culled from the internet (perhaps the most important parable of the thread on the subject). And if it is non-existent, and he is simply guffawing his way through slander, then we must trust that conscience will get the better of him.

22 July 2012 at 23:57  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Just a reflection here. The whole thread has really been dominated by this whole Dodo witch hunt and discussion, rather than what his Grace posted upon. Who in reality has gained from this?

23 July 2012 at 00:06  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Wise words, AIB.

Thank you.

23 July 2012 at 00:06  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hannah,

Apology accepted and nothing more shall be said of this matter as far as I am concerned.

23 July 2012 at 00:08  
Blogger Hannah Albion- Halakha said...

Hi Paul,

That's very kind of you, thanks!

23 July 2012 at 00:19  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Hannah:

I hope you don't take my comments the wrong way (or anyone else for that matter). I'm not accusing you of being sectarian. Not least because throwing epithets around usually tends to be about closing down debate. I wouldn't regard driving you away as being any kind of achievement.

My caution stems from my own experiences living in a country where it is very easy to let certain ways of thinking creep in. You've seen, I think, some of my feelings towards Sinn Fein a few weeks ago. It's all too easy to engage in perfectly justified criticism of opponents, but nevertheless end up transferring over opposition to them onto opposition of a group of people. I know that there are times when I have to catch myself falling into a place where I start to see people of a certain political persuasion in Northern Ireland as being not just wrong, but fundamentally wrong, as a kind of identity trait - and I'm not even coming from a particularly Unionist (let alone Protestant) perspective!

It rankles me when people do that to each other, and it shames me when I start to do it myself. That's why I can't support the various accusations that get flung around here that Catholics are fundamentally egotistical degenerates, or that Protestants are madmen, or that Jews are all power-hungry agents of a hidden agenda. Or, for that matter, that homosexuals are all fundamentally deranged. There are, undoubtedly, people in whom these various traits coincide, but I'm afraid I distrust my ability to properly discern this via the pseudo-anonymous comments on a blog.

I think it's usually better to proceed on what people are actually writing, and what I know of what they've written in the past, rather than by what identities they present. Cranmer is not a dead archbishop. Dodo is not a bird. And barring evidence to the contrary, Ernsty is not James Bond's nemesis (he may not even have a cat). But there is a person behind each one of them, and I assume that if I engage with them long enough, that person's views will become clear, even if their real-world identity remains hidden.

On which note, I hope that whoever you are beyond the ID, your relationship with God only deepens.

23 July 2012 at 00:21  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"I have missed an interesting day. " He He HE...have you really?! Looks more like an ID offensive from where I am sitting.

This has been a day of wonders for old Ernsty ;-)

As Andrew Neil would say..Nighty Nite. Don't let the ID's bite.

Ernsty Blofeld

23 July 2012 at 00:39  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Ernsty

So that's it? There is no evidence? Just speculation? All based on some psychological theory about my ability to cover a wide range of topics in a debate?

Now you insult other bloggers by insinuating they are MY fake ID's.

Name them. Let us all know my alternate ID's. I'm sure it will interest them to learn this.

You claim to be a born again Christian. You claim to be knowledable about scripture and God's law.

"Six things there are, which the Lord hateth, and the seventh his soul detesteth: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood. A heart that deviseth wicked plots, feet that are swift to run into mischief. A deceitful witness that uttereth lies, and him that soweth discord among brethren."
(Proverbs 6:16–19)

Shame on you.

23 July 2012 at 01:13  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 July 2012 at 02:00  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Anna
I sincerely wish you well on your spiritual journey. Your Jewishness will always be important to you but please do not rule out Christ as the fulfillment of the promises made by God to the nation of Israel.

The antisemiticism you have encountered here does not mean loyalty and solidarity with the people of Israel must entail adopting Judaism as a faith. You've spoken with a Rabbi. How about a traditional and understanding Christian minister?

I am not cressida so cannot speak for her.

You present as very sweet and innocent and, deny it or not, you do have a flirtatious, 'little girl lost', style.

I have found it irritating when, amidst you casual chats about dinner, defending the honour of your sister's buttocks and tidying your home, you slip into ill-considered comments about my faith and act all offended when others or I pick you up on this. And saying "Hi Guys!" or "Hi Catholic Guys!" must annoy the women on here; it annoys me.

DanJ0
I wont comment on the other drivel, but I have written homophobic poems?! How silly you really are.

As I recall, I once wrote a rather clever little ditty about DanJ0 strumming his BanJo all alone and solo. All good fun and not at all homophobic.

And the Japenese pop song entitled 'Danjo', which means 'boy-girl', homophobic? LOL! Er, it's about a schoo; classroom with girls and boys in it!

What an utter drama queen you are, darling.

23 July 2012 at 02:03  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Belfast,you leave me in no question about your nong status. It has been duly removed and replaced with champ status.Of course you realise that being Cressida's champ amounts to being placed in the stocks to have rotten cabbages and worse thrown at you...so you probably wont thank me for this:)

23 July 2012 at 03:31  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "DanJ0 I wont comment on the other drivel [...]"

Whatever this latest thing about IDs is all about, the "drivel" you mention is clear evidence in black and white of your lying and available for anyone here to read in its original context. Moreover, that thread from start to finish, and your ongoing attempts to duck the issue (no pun intended) even in the face of the evidence, show your character very well.

23 July 2012 at 04:49  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

It's not just in that thread either as you took some of my words and presented them in a later thread as a quote of me. Only, you deliberately modified it, cutting out a bit and adding punctuation, to make it mean something rather different. There's clear evidence in black and white of that shenanigans too.

23 July 2012 at 04:57  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Here's page 1 and page 2 of the rather sordid thread in question, starting from 10 June 2012 23:03 onwards, from the jumping in scenting trouble, to the faux outrage, hypocrisy, lying, and noisy squawking afterwards. Actually, looking back, you described it as "your little flat" rather than "one-bedroomed", though it makes no difference to the thing. Note the original allegation against me at the start there was withdrawn after a bit of prompting elsewhere.

23 July 2012 at 07:05  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Dodo and also Mr Belfast,

I've noted your comments, you know I think your really fab! (but don't tell anyone else!). I am sorry that I come across as a flirt, or a bit derogatory towards Catholics (girl holds head low in shame). I don't mean to be, I am just a bubbly girl who gets a bit excited at times- I'm trying to reform myself. If you read my blog, you will see more of the real me.

Your wrong in one thing- I didn't "defend my sisters buttocks", she did that all by herself and it was being called an "'fing P*ki" that really got her upset, after she politely requested the hand to be removed from said part of body (doesn't look like it, but we both have dark olive skin tone).

I don't think Mr Dodo is really all these other people- he's too intelligent in his own right for that sort of caper and doesn't need anyone else to do his argument for him (the links Danjo provided show that).

Anyway, sees you later Mr Dodo!

23 July 2012 at 09:32  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

DanJ0

Those links are interesting. They show you making a groundless accusation against me and applying your standard ploy of manipulating people into providing information. You even brag about about your skills in this area - such conceit!

And this just about closes the issue:

"Actually, looking back, you described it as "your little flat" rather than "one-bedroomed", though it makes no difference to the thing."

It makes all the difference, wouldn't you say? It gives you no basis for your suspicion, paranoia and original accusation.

And the "homphobic song"? Are you being serious?

Do you ever apologise when wrong?

Anna

They seek him here
They seek him there
They seek that damned unbiquitous
Catholic Dude everywhere!

Is he for real
Or under 'poly-nominal' cover?
He maybe the most tedious blogger
Can he be the the genuine deal?

Thank you for your support.

Blofeld

AIB commented ...

"If Ernsty really has evidence, he'll bring it forth, and we'll all be in a better place to have some idea of what the hell he is talking about ... And if it is non-existent, and he is simply guffawing his way through slander, then we must trust that conscience will get the better of him."

23 July 2012 at 11:34  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Could all this diverting and distracting talk of Dodo's identity please cease forthwith? Let us return to the matter at hand.

23 July 2012 at 12:06  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 July 2012 at 12:43  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 July 2012 at 12:46  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Dodo,

With respect, His Grace has asked for it to cease.

23 July 2012 at 12:48  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Your Grace,

Thank you.

23 July 2012 at 12:59  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

What is a Christian Zionist.

Such a person is usually not from a reformed or Roman Catholic background and discovers their 'theology' from the Holy Bible itself rather than from any preconceived Roman Catholic/Reformed theological exposition.
We understand this belief by allowing the Holy Bible to dictate to us what our theology really should be, ipso facto (we now know that the Almighty God said He would never forget Israel and would restore them, ipso facto, He will accomplish His Purposes for His good pleasure despite what we think), from reading carefully and comparing what is stated.

God did not make promises to Ishmael about 'The Land', only Abraham, then confirming to Issac and Jacob. God stated that Issac was the 'only' son of promise!!
He only promised to make a great nation from him.

God calls Himself continually throughout scripture "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" which obviously shows that His chosen people are Israel. That they (Issac and Jacob) came through the line of Abraham and promise reconfirmed to each and that the original promise was uniquely for them and their offspring.

Genesis 22

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine ONLY son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

The vast majority of commentators prior to the creation of the state of Israel in 1948 argued that Israel would never become a nation again. Look at how wrong they have been shown to be regarding this!

WE (bible believing Christians) remember that God said that if any prophet prophesies falsely, then he is NO prophet of His but a false prophet speaking lies to deceive, saying 'God is not in this'.

E S Blofeld

23 July 2012 at 13:53  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Those 'believers' that call us Zionists say they are not anti Israel, but in reality they are. They say with contrived sincerity that they support the Palestinians also, but actually (generally speaking) their ONLY support is for the Palestinians and the Arab states within the region and keep attacking Israel as a state, whatever they do.

There are two Old Testament covenants pertaining to the land of Israel, one Perpetual/Everlasting/Without Ceasing and the other with caveats regarding the remaing within it.
1.Abrahamic Covenant gives the title of the land to the Jews for everlasting.
2.Mosaic Land Covenant of Deuteronomy verses 28-30 lays out all the conditions for possession and their enjoyment regarding remaining in the land.


An example should suffice;

As a Father/mother you purchase a vehicle for your child and put the registration details in the child's name. However you explain to your child that there will be strict conditions attached for their using this car, IE no speeding in it at any time.
Warning is given to them that a speeding ticket will most definitely result in the loss of the special entitlement for them driving this car for a set period of one month.
If the child then receives a ticket , you have no choice but to lock the car up in the garage for a month as stated.
The car still belongs to your son/daughter because their name is still on the paperwork but the child has now temporarily had it's possession of the vehicle stopped as previously warned.
The time specified by the Parent is one month and will receive back all privileges once this period has expired.

The Jews throughout their history have lost their possession of the promised land from time to time, but they have NEVER lost their God-given title relating to said strip of land and have never possessed ALL the land promised to them By God...this is yet future.

Nowhere in scripture are the Jews told that their disobedience could or would ever lead/resultwith a LOSS OF THEIR TITLE DEEDS TO THE LAND, promised by the Almighty.

Roman 11:28-32
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

E S Blofeld

23 July 2012 at 13:57  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Blowfly

We were distracted for a time at an important point in the discussion.

"Zionism", as a term is unhelpful as it covers a wide spectrum of theological and political opinion.

On an earlier post you gave a simplistic misrepresentation of 'Replacement Theology', more properly termed, 'Supersessionism'.

Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that the covenant between God and the People of Israel, established through the mediation of Moses at Sinai, has been superseded by the 'New Covenant' of Jesus Christ.

This signifies that the Mosaic covenant, with its ritual and dietary requirements, Sabbath observance, etc., is no longer valid for the Jewish people since God’s revealed will is for Jews, as well as Gentiles, to enter into this New Covenant by baptism and faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah.

The Catholic Church teaches that the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled and replaced by this New Covenant in Christ. It does not teach that the Jewish people themselves are irrelevant in terms of eschatology and Biblical prophecy. For the Catholic Church, the Jewish people are a reminder that the "gifts and calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29).

Catholics recognise an ongoing and unique relationship between the Jewish people, God and the Church. Additionally, the Church teaches that there is an integral continuity between the covenants rather than a rupture.

In 'Lumen Gentium' (1964), the Church states that God "chose the race of Israel as a people" and "set up a covenant” with them, instructing them and making them holy." However, "all these things . . . were done by way of preparation and as a figure of that new and perfect covenant" instituted by and ratified in Christ. In 'Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism' (1985), the Church stated that the "Church and Judaism cannot then be seen as two parallel ways of salvation and the Church must witness to Christ as the Redeemer of all."

In 'Dominus Iesus' (2000), the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith states, "There is only one salvific economy" and "God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity. . . . The certainty of the universal salvific will of God does not diminish, but rather increases the duty and urgency of the proclamation of salvation and of conversion to the Lord Jesus Christ"

Can you be clearer?

Are you saying the Mosaic Covenant is still valid for the Jewish people? That it is a parallel path to salvation? That they have no need of conversion? Do you support the rebuilding of the Third Temple and the reintroduction of the sacrificial system? Or is it the return of the Jewish people to Israel you are seeing as the fulfillmrnt of prophecy?

The Church does not teach God has abandoned Jews forever or left them with no hope or purpose! Indeed, the current Pope has taught the Jews are God's Chosen People and have a special place in His heart and that Israel has an as yet unknown part to play in salvation history.

As for the Covenant with Abraham and all that very particular and specific interpretation of prophecy, which is very partial in its selection, the Catholic Church has not to my knowledge declared a formal doctrinal position. You see, it doesn't go in for 'end time' speculation and all this talk of 'tribulation'!

.

23 July 2012 at 15:29  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Blowfly

Continued:

Your edited version of the article by David Reagan, A Messianic Jew, ommitted some important theology.

He wrote:

"It is true that the Jewish people are currently under discipline because of their rejection of their Messiah. Over and over in their Scriptures the prophets said they would be disciplined if they were unfaithful, but always the promise was made that they would be preserved."

"The first question most people usually ask ... about Israel in the end times is this: “Why would God continue to pursue such a stubborn and rebellious people?” The answer is that they are witnesses of God, and through them God is demonstrating His unfathomable grace. Only a God of grace would put up with them!"

Do you believe the Jews are under discipline because of their rejection of Christ and unfaithfulness? And do you support the notion that the Jews are a stubborn and rebellious people?

Perhaps you could clarify these points and we can then explore your 'end times' theology.

The one, the only,
Dode the Dude

23 July 2012 at 15:30  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

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23 July 2012 at 15:49  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 July 2012 at 16:02  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 July 2012 at 16:03  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Duckie

"Supersessionism is the traditional Christian belief that the covenant between God and the People of Israel, established through the mediation of Moses at Sinai, has been superseded by the 'New Covenant' of Jesus Christ." This may well be the case for 'traditional' Catholics or the Protestants that came from you but it is not biblical as you confuse the church with Israel. Ernst, as you well know, is dispensationalist!

Will the Jews build a third temple..Yes, because God has prophesied they will. What has this to do with the covenant (new) They are in the land forgiven but in unbelief of the new covenant and will revert back to the mosaic covenant as their choice..ps they are not messianic Jews!!!.
The whole point of the 7 year period is to drive them to despair to call upon the name of The Lord during this time of persecution after the peace deal.

"It does not teach that the Jewish people themselves are irrelevant in terms of eschatology and Biblical prophecy. " Disagree with you dickie. Your church teaches that eschatology and bible prophecy regarding Israel is complete and there is nothing else to add..Rome will present the world to Christ 'tetelestai '..

"The Church does not teach God has abandoned Jews forever or left them with no hope or purpose! Indeed, the current Pope has taught the Jews are God's Chosen People and have a special place in His heart and that Israel has an as yet unknown part to play in salvation history." Well, if this is the case, Rome will not play a part in leading Israel to salvation after all it has done to it and through its legacy within the protestant denominations..All salvation is from God only, least any ,man or organisation should boast..Oooh Rome does, doesn't it.

"Perhaps you could clarify these points and we can then explore your 'end times' theology." I need to clarify nothing with you, dickie bird or are you some 2nd person on this blog..Ernie to His Grace's Eric??.
You are a mere contributor as Ernst is. Roman Catholic : Know thy Limits.

Delusions of Grandeur, INDEED!

Ernst S Blofeld

23 July 2012 at 16:21  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

AnonymousInBelfast,

"Having seen, in person, handwritten manuscripts from the 15th Century wherein the "crime" of the Jews is explicitly described as the deicide of Christ, I'm afraid this one doesn't hold much water with me. Unless, of course, Marcus has evidence that "international Jewry" has successfully infiltrated the world's archives with a wealth of astoundingly good forgeries."

I am not disputing that the Jews are blamed for the death of Christ. I said it is Zionist propaganda which I attribute to the stick that Jews constantly use to attack the goyim with, under the anti semitism slur in order to keep people away from the real issues of why Jews are and have been hated for centuries - usury.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not the Sanhedrin, the ruling body over the Jews that sentenced Christ to death?
Only a naive Christian would truly believe that Christ died to save us all. He was nailed to a tree for the sole purpose of attacking the Jewish money lenders and upsetting the apple cart for attacking the controlling Jews in Judea, for their restriction upon whom could come into their place of worship.

King Edward's Edict of Expulsion of 1290 was created, not because of the dislike of Jews for killing Christ, but as I've already said for their practice of the nationally hated usury - creation of debt. It is for their very practice of usury that the name 'parasite' has been used to define them. I am of course speaking of the Ashkenazi, the troublemakers within society, the agent provocateurs - those who say they are Jews but are not.

Moreso, up until the Zionists 'won' their Israel, semitic Jews (Sephardi, Karaite & Messianic) and Arabs (Christians, Muslims & Druze) lived in harmony with one another. There was no conflict in the west bank. It was a peaceful co-existance amongst different religions.

The western, Ashkenazi Jews are the first to shout anti semitism at anyone who should criticise their practices of usury or the state of Israel. As already stated, they are plastic Jews, that is, they are fake Jews, not related to Judah whatsoever. It would be like a Chinaman coming to Scotland and declaring himself to be Scottish, even though he was of no relation whatsoever to the tribe of Scots who gave the nation its name.

regards

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 16:25  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Blowfly

Do read the article linked below.

'THE JEWISH PEOPLE
AND THEIR SACRED SCRIPTURES
IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE'

It was written in 2002 by the Pontifical Biblical Commission after several years of study. I think you'll find it shows your 'analysis' of Catholic views to be both ignorant and simplistic. It also offers an insight into early anti-Judaism based on the New Testament.

www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html

I know my limits full well and avoid fantasy and speculation in the expression of my religious, professional and personal views. I also find it unnecessary to chortle, chuckle and guffaw when making serious contributions on this site. This surely gives an impression of a demented state.

The one and the only,
Dodo the Dude

23 July 2012 at 16:45  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

My, what a thread. Very personal. I usually resent being away when Jewish stuff is being discussed, but this time, not so much. A bit like walking in on a therapy session while the therapist is in the loo. Too many things going on, too little time, as I'm off this afternoon to one of my most enjoyable destinations, Manitoulin Island.

So, a quick "hit and run" commentary before packing. I see Mr Blofeld has tackled supersessionism in an admirable way. At the same time, Dodo's challenge has substance as well. I'm afraid there is no happy medium in the long run; authentic Judaism cannot accept a divine or messianic status for Jesus and Christianity cannot be Christianity without him. As the old ditty goes, "Roses are red and violets are bluish, if it weren't for Jesus, we'd all be Jewish." Me, I'm ok with an agree-to-disagree kind of a set-up, mostly because if you folks were to come over to our side, I'll have a harder time elbowing through the crowd at the scotch and herring table after the services.

The Dodo is a sneaky bird in a debate and he does get on my nerves at times, but ganging up on him is not cricket, as you folks might say. I think the latest bit of online identity kerfaffles got rolling when Corrigan accused me of being Cressida, then both Cressida and Anna. There is, btw, software out there which supposedly can detect individual writing styles and match them, if anyone has the time or inclination to track down an open source product and learn how to use it.

Miss Anna, welcome home. I myself am a ba'al teshuva, although I started off as a "militant" atheist, rather than a Christian. It's not an easy journey, but easier than one might think and the reward of being whole and connected is indescribable. My bias is orthodoxy, of course, and if I may presume to advise you, I invite you to take your time and examine its surprisingly wide spectrum not so much by reading, but by visiting different communities and homes.

Inspector, your preemptive defense of the Marcus character's right to free speech is unnecessary. Unless His Grace sends him packing, I doubt anyone will be spending much time on him. I know some of his garble may seem new and fascinating to you, but to me it's all rather bland antisemitic and Islamist conspiracy crap which you can find all over the 'net. A mix of Werner Sombart pseudo-history of the Jews, a take off on Koestler's Khazar hypothesis, a meaningless racial definition of Jewishness and a false etymology of the "antisemitism" term. Dum-dee-dum, dum. I'm bored with the loonie fringe banalities and have less time and inclination to debate the kooks like Magee and now this Marcus, but if you have any questions for me after you've slummed around a bit in their creepy world and scraped off the turds off your shoes, by all means.


Ta-da for now and play nice, y'all!

23 July 2012 at 17:28  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Went over character limit on the post above and this is what I took out; my ramble about Manitoulin Island, especially my favourite part, Wiky.

After dropping off a load with the trailer to the "White" part of the island, I bob-tail off, with my 10 year-old, her friend and a pile of stuffed animals to spend a couple of days at "Wiky," the Wikwemikong Unceded Indian Reserve, where the girls can play with Ojibwa kids at the beach or the community centre if we get a storm. At night they can invite a few of their new girl friends and squeel and giggle til past midnight in rented actual-size canvas replica of a Plains Indian teepee kept warm by a small, sweet-smelling cedar wood fire, while I try to catch sleep in my diesel-smelling cabin sleeper. Nice folks there and one of the summer restaurants lets me bring my kosher grill and pans and cook in their kitchen. I will subsist on copious quantities of their fresh lake trout, bass and pike. If His Grace permits a brief commercial message: I highly recommend a stay at the Wiky Reserve to anyone traveling in Ontario. Just head to the eastern part of the island, have the courtesy to announce and present yourself at the the band council office or at the Chief's house and you'll be looked after. Be courteous and remember that you are a visitor among smart, independent First Nations Canadians. It isn't fancy and it isn't cheap there...eating, lodging and shopping for art and souvenirs on First Nations reserves never is...but the experience of visiting with a proud and independent people in a gorgeous part of the world is worth every penny and you are doing a good deed in keeping their economy going. End of ad.

23 July 2012 at 17:33  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Marcus:

A couple of points of order, so to speak:

Whilst the Sanhedrin is recorded as having provided the impetus for Christ's death on the Cross, it's always important to remember that the power to do so did not belong to them (the power was Pilate's), and that technically the meeting that condemned Christ was not in any case a legal meeting of the full Sanhedrin. The primary attribution for responsibility in medieval thought was not that of the trial, or even of Pilate washing his hands, but the crowd's selection of Barrabus over Christ, followed by their demand: "Crucify Him". This is why the Jewish people, and not just a small coterie of their leaders were historically understood to have committed deicide. I offer no defence for that piece of theology.

Secondly, if we indeed accept the principle that the underlying cause for historic opposition to the Jews was in fact based on their usury, then it is entirely appropriate to examine the extent of usurious practice. Putting it simply: both the Church and medieval authorities engaged in practices virtually identical to usury, and merchants too engaged in usurious lending, just not under that name. More than one commentator noted this hypocrisy: indeed it provided a common means of attack on both worldly and ecclesiastical authority for any number of "radical" groups agitating for reform.

In this context your implication that the 1290 Expulsion was the just consequence of dealing with a Jewish creation of debt, is rather less sound. If anything, it would suggest that - assuming usury to be the primary motivation - Jews were in fact something of a scapegoat to deflect criticism of Christians (many of whom were in enough debt of their own making - including the king). The fact that England continued to create debt, continued to have usurious practices, and continued to have to grapple with monetary-side inflationary issues for centuries after the Jews had been successfully expelled, merely attests to this.

Finally, even if we accept your assertion entirely at face value - that there was indeed an Ashkenazi conspiracy of economic "troublemakers" - this does not provide in any reasonable system of morality sufficient justification for the systematic persecution, including several massacres, of those people. The medieval legal system was sufficiently developed to hold individuals to account for their own actions and faults, as well as groups of people when they behaved corporately. By all accounts, the age was a profoundly litigious one. It speaks volumes that these extensive legal instiutions took a back-seat when it came to the Jews in favour of apportioning collective blame on an entire people, and in preferring violence, or the threat of violence, over the multitude of legal sanctions available to local and royal authorities.

23 July 2012 at 17:42  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Marcus

Now your insulting Scottish people! Even the Nationalist SNP's position is one of civic nationalism and pride, not racialism.

Also, what about Mizrahi Jews clever clogs or Beta Israel? No mention on them on the "little list".

Also, what do you think about how Iraqi Jews were treated after 1949?

23 July 2012 at 18:03  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@AnonymousInBelfast,

Of course, I won't dispute that it was Pilate who sentenced Christ, but he would not have been sentenced had it not been for the scheming of the Sanhedrin. In other words, the romans were the weapon, yet the Sanhedrin wielded it.

I merely pointed out that they were hated for their usury. I won't deny that the Roman Catholic Church and the King were imposing taxes upon the people, but nonetheless, it doesn't sway from the fact that a tiny minority of 'aliens' practicing a religion which already had problems with the main one of the land, were promoting a practice that was creating growing discontent. Were they scapegoats? Debatable to say the least. Facts are facts.

I find the following quote interesting:

"Finally, even if we accept your assertion entirely at face value - that there was indeed an Ashkenazi conspiracy of economic "troublemakers" - this does not provide in any reasonable system of morality sufficient justification for the systematic persecution, including several massacres, of those people."

I am merely a messenger of a viewpoint that is not only promoted by non Jews but Jews also. This viewpoint is based in solid fact when one realises that every war and conflict within the world from 1750 onwards has been instigated by the Ashkenazi globalist elite, none other than being led by the Rothschild dynasty.
And you speak of systematic persecution as well as several massacres? Who and where?

Let's not go into the holocaust shall we? I really have no desire whatsoever in going into that for the simple reason that the religion of holocaustianity has been nothing more than the cash cow for the illegal state of Israel. Regardless of your viewpoint whether it happened or not, it's safe to say that not only an illegal state, but many elite Ashkenazis have profitted greatly off of it and still are.
And as for persecution of Jews - where? All I perpetually see when it comes to persecution of Jews, is Jews moaning because people are attacking them for their Zionism and maltreatment of the Palestinian peoples, not forgetting their constant war mongering on the Islamic states since the inception of Israel.

What is Anti semitism? It's not who hate the Jews, but whom the Jews hate. I am of course speaking of the Ashkenazis. What I'm quite amazed by so far is that not one word has been spoken of the real anti semitism going on against the semitic peoples of the middle east, by the non semitic Ashkenazis, who hide behind the mantle of anti semitism. Rgardless how you want to look at it, this is fact. This is a foreign people, moving into an alien land, controlling it for themselves and persecuting the indigenous inhabitants. The world screamed blue murder with apartheid in South Africa yet turns a blind eye to Israel - I wonder why???

regards

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:05  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

More Conspiracy theory tosh from our friend Marcus. But were do the lizards and martians from Alpha Draconis fit into his theory, a la Mr D Icke.

23 July 2012 at 18:09  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Marcus,

Review Wiki- over 50% of Israel's population of Jews are Sephardi/ Mizrahi Jews (i.e. Jews of Southern Europe, Africa and the Middle East/Orient). Before Russian Jews settled in Israel, that figure was 70%. So even on that basis, your conspiracy theory falls apart. You say that the world's media is owned mostly by Jews. News Corp, a big global news corporation (owner of the times, the majority of SKY and the sun in the UK) is headed and partly owned by a Roman Catholic, Rupert Murdoch and dynasty, yet you don't start casting stones there do you?

23 July 2012 at 18:13  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

It appears that you never bothered reading my reply where I addressed lizards, David Icke, aliens and of course a quick definition of conspiracy, something you are completely oblivious to.

Now Paul, how about you go and educate yourself for a while, say 30 or so years?

Have a good one

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:13  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

Oh Paul, you're so way behind reality. You really should learn to keep up. It's utterly pointless debating with you simply because you're oblivious to reality.

toodleloo

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:15  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

"Regardless of your viewpoint whether it happened [The Holocaust]or not, it's safe to say that not only an illegal state, but many elite Ashkenazis have profitted greatly off of it and still are."

Jesus you make me sick. My first views was correct. You are a fascist scumbag.

23 July 2012 at 18:16  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

If you find the truth offensive then don't get involved in debate. Read some of what the JEW Norman Finklestein has written about the Holocaust. Here's a good start for you:

The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering

You see, we goyim aren't allowed to criticise world Jewry, so I'll instead leave it up to Jews to do it themselves.

toodleloo

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:19  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

Here's a quote from a reader of his book:

"Finkelstein does not deny the Nazi holocaust, nor the suffering it inflicted on both those it killed, and on those who survived. His contention - persuasively argued - is that their genuine suffering is being debased and abused by the Holocaust "industry" in order to bring political power and huge sums of money to an élite minority.

He also points out that by labelling the Holocaust with false superlatives, one belittles the plight of others who have suffered comparably awful genocide and victimisation, both in World War II and throughout history."


End of the first paragraph is particularly interesting. Oops, must be another of those wacko conspiracy theorists, yet wait, no talk of aliens, lizards or Planet X?

toodleloo

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:25  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Marcus,

I didn't think you were going to debate with me? Have I touched a nerve because I am challenging your paranoid delusions? If you will excuse me I have to go and have a wash after my vomiting in my sick bucket after reading your anti-Semitic, anti Jewish horse manure. Now please go back to stormfront where your odious views belong.

23 July 2012 at 18:29  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

Erm I was merely a messenger for the views of the Ashkenazi Jew Norman Finklestein. Are you therefore saying that he is being anti semtic?

The bottom line Paul is that I've proved that all you are is nonsense. Don't worry, this will be my last reply to you. I haven't debated with you in the slightest. I have educated you on reality, something you seriously need to get an education in.

lol

toodleloo

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 18:33  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Ah, there you are Avi. As you know, the Inspector moved his position from Israel critical to fence sitting thanks to your illustrated postings, so well done that man. However, he would not have been able to do that without considering as full a picture, including historical, as he had. So although this latest fellow to appear may bring odiousness in some peoples eyes, to others, including these two, because it is a stance held by numerous others, it needs appreciating. That is extremely important to the Inspector. Strength of numbers in a belief does give it credibility, even though it may fail on accuracy, whatever that is judged by. It is for this reason one has such problems with Atlas. It is not so much what he says, but that he’s the only one saying it...

23 July 2012 at 18:33  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

And you speak of systematic persecution as well as several massacres? Who and where?

Blood libel motivated attacks in Lincoln, Norwich, and York throughout the 11th and 12th centuries, despite the fact that several of the putative victims were found to be fictious even at the time. Two large massacres occurred in 1189-1190. One in London where, reminiscent of Kristalnacht, Jewish citizens were burnt out of their homes. Another in York in 1190 where over 150 Jews were killed - many by their own hand when they were holed up in a castle by a baying mob, but apparently not in any sense a disproportionate act, as said mob proceeded to murder all those who survived. There were also smaller-scale attacks, including murders, at Lynn, Norwich, Stamford, and Bury-St-Edmunds following the attacks in London.

They were, of course, aided in their efforts by the legal requirement that Jews wear markers denoting their identity.

You see, Marcus, I have no need to go to the Holocaust to find examples of the systematic persecution of Jews in history.

"Were they scapegoats? Debatable to say the least. Facts are facts."

They were tokenistically selected for punishment for an activity which was practiced far and wide beyond themselves. I cannot think how this would not fit the definition of scapegoat.

Facts are facts, you say. Indeed they are, and it is a fact that the relatively small number of Jews in England - a "tiny minority" in your own words - does not account for the extent of medieval debt, or for the extent of usurious practices. The problem is, as so beautifully evinced in your own post, when we start to scapegoat a small group of people for a problem that is far wider, we get a dissonance between what it is humanly possible for that group to be responsible for and the extent of the blame that we want them to take. This directly leads to the notion that said group must, in fact, really be responsible for the wider problem - that it is the heart of a conspiracy, engaged in colossal infiltration of society.

23 July 2012 at 18:34  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 July 2012 at 18:38  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Marcus,

Referring to the whole thrust of your vile views, no you have not educated, you have slandered. Slandered a whole group of people and I note that you have not answered any of Hannah's questions. I doubt you know what she refers to you,are so wrapped up in your anti Jew hatred and fantasies .

If you are a Christian I pity you. You and I worship a Jewish God after all.

23 July 2012 at 18:40  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Two further, brief, points.

" I really have no desire whatsoever in going into that for the simple reason that the religion of holocaustianity has been nothing more than the cash cow for the illegal state of Israel."

If I assault you tomorrow, and break your nose, and you then seek restitution in court, would I be correct in describing your act as profiteering? If I go further, and accuse you of provoking me into assault in order that you might in fact profit by it, am I being rational?

"This is a foreign people, moving into an alien land, controlling it for themselves and persecuting the indigenous inhabitants."

One persecution does not, indeed, justify another one. I am quite happy to register my general opposition to Israel's treatment of Palestinian people, which appears to be getting worse rather than better. That includes deliberate and systematic attempts to remove Palestinians from their homes. However, I also utterly reject and repudiate the activities of Palestinian terrorists. I reject the well-documented desire to make Palestine Judenrein, and also the long-term goals of many involved in that struggle, both there and across the world, to seek the destruction of the state of Israel.

23 July 2012 at 18:46  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Belfast,

I have to ask, how do you manage to go on the level with this guy and remain so calm? I just want to give the man a thorough thrashing frankly.

23 July 2012 at 19:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

A couple of points, chaps...

Along with the Renaissance, usury is the second foundation of Western civilisation. And that is with no ‘ifs’ or ‘buts’. Why is usury considered in religious debate as almost on a par with murder ?

Pilate was not the Roman governor of Judea as such. His apparent title was that of ‘Prefect of Judea’. So, he was not the son of Roman aristocracy entrusted with representing the emperor in foreign lands, and, as a result of his upbringing, schooled in the craft of government. He would not have practiced the craft of Roman governorship as we know it, including it’s subterfuges and deceit. Indeed, he was most likely a victim of it, to end up in Judea. A prefect was a military rank, and we can expect Pilate would have governed as a soldier, with a soldier’s mind. So, everything in black and white and little in grey. Hence, his ‘washing of his hands’ would be entirely in character. He could not cope with the Jewish establishment elite. One has always been sympathetic with Pilate's plight. And yes, it would have been a plight by the actions he took. One is even more sympathetic now...

23 July 2012 at 19:08  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Inspector,

I was waiting for you to burst into song, with "I dreamed I met", Pilate's solo in Super star (are you watching that btw, I missed Friday's show, but the black guy got through- wouldn't a black Jesus be cool?).

23 July 2012 at 19:11  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Mr Belfast,

Thank you for intellectually challenging Mr Marcus Ratus Ratus. I did get your message on my blog and have replied. It's like, I normally get a handful of comments, but since mentioning I had a blog here, I've been struck like a Typhoon.

23 July 2012 at 19:13  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Paul,

Your a super star too- battling that nasty Marcus who is a f-wit as described yesterday. How can anyone be so delusional to blame all of the world's problems on Jewish people? It's like he had Mein Kampf for a Bible or something.

23 July 2012 at 19:15  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Dodo,

Well you deserve a Roman Triumph. I only wish I had used my gut instinct, which usually means I'm right about people. I think you look and sound like Sgt Harper from Sharpe? Am I right?

23 July 2012 at 19:17  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hannah,

That would make Inspector Sean Bean then!?

23 July 2012 at 19:30  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Paul Twigg, that would be Colonel Inspector General then :->

23 July 2012 at 19:34  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Just been reminded of the song :

"Here's forty shillings on the drum for those who volunteer to come
To 'list and fight the foe today - Over the hills and far away

O'er the hills and o'er the main, Through Flanders Portugal and Spain
King George commands and we obey - Over the hills and far away

When duty calls me I must go, to stand and face another foe
But part of me will always stray - Over the Hills and far away

If I should fall to rise no more, as many comrades did before
Then ask the fifes and drums to play, over the hills and far away


Then fall in lads behind the drum. With colours blazing like the sun
Along the road to come what may - Over the hills and far away."

23 July 2012 at 19:34  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

and thus an empire was born...

23 July 2012 at 19:39  
Blogger Preacher said...

Good old song Paul, & its origins apparently go back to Queen Anne.

23 July 2012 at 20:00  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Avi,

Thanks and enjoy your well deserved holiday.

23 July 2012 at 20:07  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Preacher,

Respect for not trying to re-convert me back to Christianity. I have respect for you following Yeshua Ben Yosef or as you call him HaMshiach Yeshua.

23 July 2012 at 20:40  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

A 'Roman Triumph' was awarded to a commander who had won a great military victory. Its roots are somewhat pagan and on the day of his triumph, the man honoured wore regalia that identified him as near-kingly. He also gained the right to be addressed as vir triumphalis.

However, in order to receive a 'Roman Triumph', the defeated enemy had to be of equal status. This criteria has not been met in my case. The pair of shady characters who launched their attack - one, a demented old fraud and the other an uptight, manipulative pip squeak - really don't measure up to this standard.

Still, just for this evening I'll put modesty to one side.

Dodo Vir Triumphalis

23 July 2012 at 21:10  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

23 July 2012 at 21:53  
Blogger bluedog said...

Breaking news from The Harbinger @ 17.45, 'This viewpoint is based in solid fact when one realises that every war and conflict within the world from 1750 onwards has been instigated by the Ashkenazi globalist elite, none other than being led by the Rothschild dynasty.'

So it wasn't Hitler who invaded Poland on 3rd September 1939 and subsequently broke the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to invade the Soviet Union?

The only logical explanation for your views is that you are using His Grace's blog to gain advance publicity for a book launch!

23 July 2012 at 22:43  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 July 2012 at 23:12  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 July 2012 at 23:14  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Blue dog,

I would say you cannot engage with Marcus at the rational level, at least I cannot. He is driven by a pathological dislike of Jews and has become a victim of conspiracy theories.

23 July 2012 at 23:20  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Blowfly

So you're a dispensationalist-premillennialist-futurist-pretribulationist, are you?

What does this all mean?

Such diversity of opinion 'inspired' by Scripture for a plethora of different of 'end time' schemes covering both fundamentalist and evangeligal ideas!

Tell me, are you a:

- classical dispensationalist;
- progressive dispensationalist;
- hyper-dispensationalist; with
- 3, 4, 7 or 8 dispensations?

In terms of premillenialism, will it be:

- theocratic; or
- soteriogical?

And in terms of a "rapture" are we thinking its to be:

- pretribulation;
- mid-tribulation; or
- post-tribulationn?

Will the anti-christ be a:

- Jew;
- Roman;
- Catholic; or
- Muslim?

You do know some hold the opinion that much of this was the invention of two Jesuit theologians in the 16th Century intended to undermine the Reformation and that people like Hal Lindsay are really secret Jesuits?

23 July 2012 at 23:28  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@AnonymousInBelfast,

I didn't want to go into the blood libel but the case of little Saint Hugh of Lincoln springs to mind. There is no evidence whatsoever to prove that Jews were not responsible in his murder and following of kabalistic practices, most notably to celebrate purim.

You know, what intrigues me the most in this debate is that discussion always crops up about the persecution of Jews. How many NON JEWS throughout the last century have been persecuted? Why are we never reminded of that? Why is it that a certain minority always takes the crown of suffering and persecution over all others?

Anyone who has done any research on Judaism knows one thing, that is, the authorative text on Judaism is not the Torah but instead the Talmud (Babylonian). It then beggars belief that if this website is supposed to be a Christian website, then why on earth is this vile series of books never discussed, more notably, how Christ is viewed bubbling in hot faeces in hell? The reason I bring this into the debate is simply because the Jewish religion, that is that practiced by the overwhelming majority of Jews today is nothing more than a hatred of Christianity.

Although some may find Brother Nathaniel, a former Jew whom converted to Christianity, somewhat eccentric, he has rather interesting information on his upbringing as a Jew and how they [Rabbis] viewed Christianity and above all Christ.
Like I said in a previous reply Karaite and Messianic Jews use the Torah as the authorative text on their religion while Sephardi and Ashkenazi use the Talmud.

"Facts are facts, you say. Indeed they are, and it is a fact that the relatively small number of Jews in England - a "tiny minority" in your own words - does not account for the extent of medieval debt, or for the extent of usurious practices."

I beg to differ considering that the small minority of elite Jews within the banking system have created the debt that exists within the west today going all the way back to the mid 18th century and most certainly before. The Rothschilds (originally money lenders from Frankfurt Germany) by the late 19th century were known to control nearly 70% of the world's wealth! If one family can control a nation's wealth and more importantly nations, as proved by the Rothschilds, then it is most certainly a foregone conclusion that a small minority of people who practice usury could very well do the same.

(cont)

23 July 2012 at 23:38  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

"The problem is, as so beautifully evinced in your own post, when we start to scapegoat a small group of people for a problem that is far wider, we get a dissonance between what it is humanly possible for that group to be responsible for and the extent of the blame that we want them to take. This directly leads to the notion that said group must, in fact, really be responsible for the wider problem - that it is the heart of a conspiracy, engaged in colossal infiltration of society."

My point is not blaming a whole people but going to the roots of their belief system and more importantly them [Jews] crying anti semitism at anyone who should spot the problem from deep within, the corruption, the control, the esotericism, which ironically is what gives them a bad name in the first place and defend them at all costs.

Anyone who denies the control that the Rothschild dynasty had over the British Empire (and the American and Russian for that matter) is simply an apologist for their crimes and the epitome of those who shout anti semite, when one gets too near to the root problem that is infecting the world and taking it into a totalitarian, one world government and banking system controlled set of states.

I attack the Ashkenazi Jews because quite frankly, those within who continue to deny that their authorative text on their religion is the Torah above the Talmud are nothing more than liars and therefore colluding in the overall conspiracy that is going on within the elite Jewish (Ashkenazi) banking families within the west today.
How can I persecute a whole religion when that religion is fragmented into groups as already discussed? I know clearly that the Messianic and Karaite Jews follow the Bible and not the Talmud, compared to the Sephardi who follow both with debate about whether the Talmud is the chief text over the bible or not. I also know that the Ashkenazi follow the Talmud over the Bible. I also know that the Talmud, (the tradition of the Elders) is exactly that which Christ warned us against and of those who say they are Jews and yet are not.

If you haven't I strongly suggest that you read the epic book by Michael Hoffman:

Judaism Discovered: A Study of the Anti-Biblical Religion of Racism, Self-Worship, Superstition and Deceit

(cont)

23 July 2012 at 23:39  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

The bottom line is quite simple, I really couldn't give a flying hoot about Jews. What I do care about is that my culture, my people, my traditions, my nation and the very lives of those within are being systematically destroyed by a banking oligarchy that is most certainly controlled by Kabbalistic, Satanist Jews, most certainly with their roots in the mystery religions of Babylon. I am most certainly not denying the existance within of non Jews who are profiteering as are those elite families within, but it is safe to say that the push for globalism, destruction of world religions, cultures and races and the installing of world government and banking system has been on going for a very long time, with one of the first attempts being back at the Rothschild created Congress of Vienna in 1815 with the first League of Nations.

You say:

"If I assault you tomorrow, and break your nose, and you then seek restitution in court, would I be correct in describing your act as profiteering? If I go further, and accuse you of provoking me into assault in order that you might in fact profit by it, am I being rational?"

You would be committing common law assault upon me. I would not seek moneys from you. I would seek your incarceration. It is civil law, that is contract law, law of admiralty, that seeks to profit out of a crime. I do not live by civil law, fake law, law of statutes. I live by a law that I consent to and one must consent and create a contract in order to be accountable under civil law.

What I see from your quote is that you are trying to imply that I believe the Jews created the holocaust in order to profiteer from it later on to which my answer would be yes, I am. I strongly believe, along with many, that the elite, Ashkenazi, Zionist Jews worked with Hitler to imprison Jews into concentration camps as part of the war machine workforce, which would ultimately lead to many deaths through typhus, overwork and starvation. This was planned long before, purely for the purpose to create a constant money supply, via reparations from Germany to fund the parasite state of Israel, that is unable to look after itself. It is a state on welfare, one of America's largest welfare recipients to say the least, while many Americans struggle to survive.

(cont)

23 July 2012 at 23:39  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

To conclude on your final point on Palestinian terrorism; it is the direct result of the illegal occupation of a land that does not belong to them by the western Ashkenazi Jews, of Europe, Russia and the USA.

What is happening in Palestine and their retaliation, is on a par to what happened to the Scots under the leadership of William Wallace and the French under Joan of Arc, whose lands had been invaded by a foreign body. The real terrorists have and always will be the Israelis, going back to the crimes of the Irgun and Stem gang, whose leaders (and murderers) later became celebrated prime ministers of Israel.

And yes, the best thing that could ever happen in this world would be the dissolving of the state of Israel because it is without a doubt the biggest threat to world peace, as it looks for every excuse to attack Iran and bring the world into a major conflict resulting in the loss of millions, if not billions of lives.

regards

Harbinger

23 July 2012 at 23:39  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo,

The rapture was supposed to happen on 21st May 2011 according to Rev Camping. We might not be here, but in heaven? Or is this blog some place else between heaven and the other place? Now if Camping had followed my religion he would have known rapture and the end of the world will only happen after the exhaustion of the world's beer supply and 'peak beer' (Book of the Holy Urn, Chapter 30 vs 22-55).

23 July 2012 at 23:42  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Hmmm, another part of holy scripture has been revealed to me tonight via the book of conspiracy thoories Chapter 3 vs 33 :

"and lo! shall the Cranmer blog be smote with the ten plagues of Babylonia, but thee must be warned that the worst plague- that of the Jew Hater called Marcus Mintus shall lead the people away from the truth- as he is lacking of all common sense and he shall be afflicted with conspiracy theory nonsenseth. "

23 July 2012 at 23:54  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

"There is no evidence whatsoever to prove that Jews were not responsible in his murder and following of kabalistic practices, most notably to celebrate purim."

Except that blood is non-kosher, and the taking of innocent life is one of the Yehareg ve'al ya'avor, and that there is no evidence, in any country, that Jews actually engaged in such rituals - and its not because there is a lack of archaeological research into European Jewish settlements. At best, even if we accept the possibility that a Jew killed Hugh of Lincoln, there is quite literally no credible evidence to link such an act to any principle of Judaism.

To the point about representations of persecution, I can only say that this has not been my experience. I might suggest that your own admitted practice of only engaging in material here when it relates to matters of "international Jewry" misleading us all, may well have something to do with the fact that you are unaware of other histories of persecution.

"the Jewish religion, that is that practiced by the overwhelming majority of Jews today is nothing more than a hatred of Christianity."

I'm well aware of some strident opposition to Jesus' claims to being the Messiah, but again, this is not my experience or even well documented: I think you credit too strongly the importance of Christianity to the Jewish faith, and in a way that depicts them solely as antagonists rather than as a self-contained, coherent religion with its own traditions and practices separate from an alleged need to oppose Christendom.

Simply narrowing down the extent of your accusations does not prove them, nor does it legitimise the basis for that criticism. In the course of this comment thread you have variously accused the Ashkenazi of manipulating world conflict, being responsible for the creation of ruinious debt, and being engaged in an ideological conflict with Christianity defined by their putative hatred of Jesus. Putting it finely, this is not something that can be substantiated with recourse to any kind of valid evidence.

Evidence: that means documents, records, transcripts, books that originate from within that community, and not solely from their historic enemies. The scale of your accusations necessitates at some level a paper trail or at the very least some physical evidence. There is none. There is none in the links you provide: there is merely post hoc analysis and conjecture, and "confessions" by people who are self-admittedly coming from a very strong ideological viewpoint. Much of the historical analysis, both from yourself and in the links is factually incorrect, and very often at odds with the chronology of events.

Incidentally, I am not "implying" if my comments have, by your own admission, accurately reflected your views.

24 July 2012 at 00:37  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

That should be:

...without recourse to any kind of valid evidence.

24 July 2012 at 00:39  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

My father, a former Orthodox Jew, used to comment that the Devil mixes lies with truth. He hints at truth and then sends it on a corrupt route.

This comment from Marcus Mintus reminds me of his explanation to me about why he converted from Judaism to Christianity, via a consideration of Karaite Judaism:

"I know clearly that the Messianic and Karaite Jews follow the Bible and not the Talmud, compared to the Sephardi who follow both with debate about whether the Talmud is the chief text over the bible or not. I also know that the Ashkenazi follow the Talmud over the Bible. I also know that the Talmud, (the tradition of the Elders) is exactly that which Christ warned us against and of those who say they are Jews and yet are not."

It is a debate worthy of discussion, is it not - minus the suggestion about Jewishness? I think DNA science can address that issue.

Unquestioned loyalty to the State of Israel for theological reasons via a simplistic belief in 'Dispensationalism', 'Pretribulationism' and 'Christian Zionism', essentially 19th century inventions, amounts to an ideological refusal to objectively consider what might be wider truths.

This 'theology' supports the State of Israel as a forerunner to a Third Temple and the reintroduction of the Pharisaical and sacrificial system and the introduction of an expanded Jewish theocracy. Is this really what the bible teaches? Anyone who questions these things automatically becomes 'antisemitic' and 'unchristian'.

I do not agree with Marcus Mintus and his wild accusations about a world wide wide conspiracy or the deliberate planning of the Holocaust! However, surely what he is saying is capable of factual refutation?

As I said, Satan mixes lies with truth. Why don't we discuss these theological and political issues? Why is it just the 'lunatic fringe' who dare ask these questions?

Do I post this comment .....?

Yes!

24 July 2012 at 00:53  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

" I strongly believe, along with many, that the elite, Ashkenazi, Zionist Jews worked with Hitler to imprison Jews into concentration camps as part of the war machine workforce, which would ultimately lead to many deaths through typhus, overwork and starvation. This was planned long before, purely for the purpose to create a constant money supply, via reparations from Germany to fund the parasite state of Israel, that is unable to look after itself. It is a state on welfare, one of America's largest welfare recipients to say the least, while many Americans struggle to survive."

This is a point that demands evidence.

I note that you have accepted the reality of the Holocaust, and that millions of Jews died in it. Good - then there is no need for further comments about whether or not anyone thinks it occurred.

Of the Jews who died in the Holocaust, the majority were Ashkenazi. This was not an issue of selection on the part of the Nazi regime (who in any case went by their own definition of what a Jew was). It was a matter of geography: their origins as a group were along the Rhine.

From this I can only conclude that these purported Nazi-loving Ashkenazi really were a tiny minority - a coterie in fact - none of which does much to credit your accusations that these people constitute "Jewry" as a whole.

Name them. Place them at the meetings where they made these decisions. Direct me to the surviving documents from the Third Reich that illustrate their influence.

24 July 2012 at 01:01  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Dodo,

Marcus is our classic white supremacy fascist bigot gone mad. I cannot believe you would ever be on his side. He can be refuted, but I've learned arguing with insanity gets you no-where. Don't pluck a few things from his posts. His bottom line is :

" I really couldn't give a flying hoot about Jews. What I do care about is that my culture, my people, my traditions, my nation and the very lives of those within are being systematically destroyed by a banking oligarchy that is most certainly controlled by Kabbalistic, Satanist Jews, most certainly with their roots in the mystery religions of Babylon."

Now Dodo, delete the word Jew and put the word Roman Catholic into that. Note how he is now putting together all forms of Judaism into his attack and calling it satan's work. Marcus deserves no more intellectual interest than a piece of snot dripping on my nose.

24 July 2012 at 01:04  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Dodo:

I agree entirely. It is important to engage with these issues, and to make clear the sources and means of research we use in doing so.

Simply refusing to debate with those who hold these views reinforces the self-fulfilling belief in persecution:

"And the only reason that my reply would be deleted is simply because unlike falsehoods, which can easily be destroyed by truths, truths can only be oppressed, in this case deletion of my reply."

It also ensures that the kinds of material and publications that enable the dissemination of these views continues to breed in a context far removed from the institutional checks of peer review and open academic debate (warts and all).

To respond to your direct point: how sure are we that such theology plays an important part in the way that the modern institutions of the State of Israel operate? It certainly has a hold in many Christian communities, particularly those of a particular Protestant denomination (including the last church I attended for several years), but I've never heard it so passionately advanced by Jews. My understanding was that in fact Israel does not regard such "well-meaning" interventions with much favour.

24 July 2012 at 01:11  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

24 July 2012 at 01:20  
Blogger Paul Twigg said...

Belfast,

I admire your willingness to debate with this man, but he is a complete lunatic right winger. If you want me to get all intellectual you can critique him, but that wouldn't do anything as the guy is so warped in his views, he would continually change the goalposts of the debate. Note many serious matters regarding his earlier accusations have been put to him by myself, you, Hannah and they get ignored or brushed aside as we move deeper into this discussion. I wish you success, but you'll only go round in circles

24 July 2012 at 01:22  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Paul

Quite possibly, but the attempt must at least be made, onerous though it may be.

We have the conviction of being able to refute his views on evidential grounds. But we also have the hope of Christ. Prayer is at the heart of this, and the hope of redemption.

24 July 2012 at 02:03  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Paul Twigg,

I chose to ignore you and Hannah purely for the simple reason of ad hominem attacks. You show no respect whatsoever in debate. You want to "give me a good thrashing," have called me a fascist, a lunatic right winger and a white supremacist and are quite simply oblivious to reality.

You are however correct in not only do I not care about Jews, but also Roman Catholics, Protestants, all sub divisions of Christianity, Muslims and their various schools within for the simple reason that religion is a form of controlling humanity, resulting in its persecution over thousands of years.

Although I disagree with Anonymous as he does me, at least he's shown respect, courtesy and manners, something you have not. It is alesson you would be wise to learn.

toodleloo

Harbinger

24 July 2012 at 02:46  
Blogger Marcus Mintus said...

@Anonymous,

I will reply to you this evening.

regards

Harbinger

24 July 2012 at 02:50  

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