Tuesday, August 21, 2012

After the passage of the Civil Unions Bill in Illinois...


Blogger Jim said...

This is what happens when someone cannot understand that a lot of things are not about him!


21 August 2012 at 21:48  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Has he died in his bed or something?

21 August 2012 at 21:52  
Blogger Corrigan1 said...

He's put forward a falsifiable hypothesis; let's see if he's right. We can ignore Jim and DanJ0 - their own kind already do.

21 August 2012 at 22:03  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Cardinal Francis George is undergoing medical tests to determine the source of cancerous cells in his liver and kidney.
He battled bladder cancer six years ago but learned last week that the disease has returned to his kidney and liver.

In 2010, he spoke about the need for Catholics and Mormons to stand together to protect religious freedom:

"In recent years, Catholics and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have stood more frequently side by side in the public square to defend human life and dignity."

He also praised the LDS Church for its efforts alongside the Catholic Church to combat poverty and pornography and the need to define marriage as between one man and one woman.

In 2010, he expressed the belief religious freedoms in the United States and other Western societies was endangered.

His actual quote:

"I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square"."

21 August 2012 at 22:22  
Blogger Berserker said...

Adding to what the Dude has posted -

The Cardinal also said recently that if Obama's health reforms go ahead within a couple of years there will be no catholic hospitals left in the USA as they would not accept Obamacare Regulation.

quote from CNS News:

Under the Obamacare regulation, as finalized by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), all health insurance companies in the United States must offer sterilization, artificial birth control, and abortion-inducing drugs free of charge to whoever may request them. The rule is set to go into effect on Aug. 1 and strictly religious institutions will have one more year to fully comply with the regulation.

21 August 2012 at 22:46  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

If I were the Martyrs successor I would be wondering about a change of faith

This faith seems distinctly lacking in a magico-religous ethos

We need a dragon slaying martial plan a mythos cultural component

21 August 2012 at 22:50  
Blogger John Magee said...

Cardinal George is a "prophet". Gay "marriage" will be the first major issue that will bring about his grim view of the future for traditional religions in the West. What will create this persecution will be the push for Gay "marriage" by the radical left as mandatory for all religious organizations. This is intentional and what it means is that at some point in the future in every nation making Gay "marraige" legal there lurks a serous potential confrontation between state and church. When Catholic priests, traditional Anglicans priests, conservative Protestant ministers, Eastern Orthodox priests, Orthodox Jewish rabbi's, Muslim mullahs and imams, and the clergy of any other faith refuse to "marry" a Gay couple in their church, mosque, or temple trouble is brewing in the future. Someday, sooner or later in a Western country where Gay "marriage" is legal, a Gay couple will sue a Church over discrimination. We are told this can't haappen because religious organizations which do not believe in the concept of Gay "marriage" are at this point in time, by law, exempt from having to perform Gay "marriages". This is only temporary. The first Gay "marriage law suit against a Church that refuses to marry them in a church building that belongs to that Church will result in the ultimate confrontation of state and church over religious freedom in our Western societies. In most Western countries the majority of people probably would tolerate Gay civil unions but no, the radical Gays and the left wanted Gay "marriage, and for good reason. To break the back of traditional religion using the law and destroy the family unit as it has been known in all societies for the past several thousand years. The Cardinal is correct. within 10 or 20 years those under 40 today will see our governments close and persecute churches who refuse to perform Gay "marriages". Of course our clergy will rebel and they will be arrested on discrimination charges and the rest we shall see. Traditional priests, ministers, rabbi's, mullahs and imams who defy their governments over this issue will be rounded up or perhaps shot if they refuse to physically surrender their religious building to their Western governments. Other moral factors like abortion will figure in this equation of the future martyrdom of Catholics, traditional Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Evangelicals and the rest mentioned above.

22 August 2012 at 01:48  
Blogger Manfarang said...

"Mormons to stand together to protect religious freedom"
Does that freedom include plural marriage?

22 August 2012 at 04:47  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Very good, Manfarang :)

22 August 2012 at 06:18  
Blogger John Knox's lovechild said...

He is probably wrong.

Martyrdom will most likely come sooner.

22 August 2012 at 08:21  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

A Pakistani Christian spoke in my Hampshire parish church 2 years ago, describing the sufferings of Christian believers in that land. Since then 2 senior Pakistani politicians have been asassinated, one just for being a Christian, the other for questioning the blasphemy law which makes it a capital crime to question Islam or the Koran.

This brother said 'If we Christians are not persecuted in these last days, then the Bible misleads us, because it repeatedly warns us to expect (A) that the church will be penetrated by false teachers 'even denying the Lord who bought them', and (B) that all men will hate true Christisns for Christ's sake.

The greatest mistake that Christisns can make, in my view, is to look to the state for protection. The UK state has become pagan.

Probably disestablishment is now inevitable, John Magee is right that homosexuals and the sixties revolutionaries who are using them as a battering ram will use the law against churches that refuse to abandon Scripture and tradition by carrying out pretended marriage ceremonies for them.

Christians need to stopwaiting for teh tide to turn, it won't, its being driven by the spirit of the age and we know who he is. Its time to memorise Scripture and prepare to go underground ni a few years. Catacombs here we come!

22 August 2012 at 08:54  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Well said Mr Magee @ 01.48 But fear not our reward will be in Heaven

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven. MT 5 : 10 - 12.

22 August 2012 at 09:02  
Blogger Naomi King said...

"When the mass majority of people are against you and against what you believe, and they're clapping...that you're getting made fun of and ridiculed...it's going to be scary walking out and standing up for your faith," said Julia (aged 16). "But it's definitely necessary," she continued, "and once you're...face-to-face with God, and He'll bring up that situation and say, 'What did you do...to represent me?', standing up for Him would have been the right decision in that situation."

Dan Savage is one of the most influential activists bent on redefining marriage in the US.



22 August 2012 at 09:45  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...


Not all Mormons accept plural marriage - research it.

22 August 2012 at 11:46  
Blogger Jon said...

What he's complaining about is his loss of influence, really. The treatment of clergymen spouting their views is inversely proportional to the severity of treatment of people who disagree with clergymen...

Firstly, the Church and its Inquisition threatened to martyr people for saying such heretical things as "the earth goes around the sun", then they merely destroyed them professionally if they painted something a bit naughty, now they harp from the sidelines, largely ignored because everyone knows that the Church hasn't exactly been a consistent instrument of human progress.

I doubt anyone will martyr his successor's successor. More likely, their opinion will just be paid less attention than this man's opinion is. Oh well.

22 August 2012 at 12:20  
Blogger Jon said...

Dodo - so you don't regard Mormonism as a dangerous cult?

22 August 2012 at 12:20  
Blogger John Magee said...


How are the Mormons "dangerous"? Name me one war they started or where or when they have persecuted and killed people in the name of their cult. As a group they are "guilty" of having a family is first attitude, hard work, honesty, and in their communities almost zero crime. As far as I can discover only once in their history a group of them attacked a wagon train in Utah they thought was US Army troops disguised as settlers coming to harm them and the Mormons killed these people in what I believe was self defense in view of the violence and persecution they experienced in the Eastern USA.

Compare that to the blood shed by perhaps millions in the wars Catholics and Protestants have fought over the centuries in the name of Christ and the "truth".

The following is an example of the only time in the history of the USA that a religious group was ever officially singled out for persecution in the USA:

Missouri Executive Order 44, also known as the "Mormon Extermination Order" (alt. exterminating order) in Latter Day Saint history, was an executive order issued on October 27, 1838 by the governor of Missouri, Lilburn Boggs. The directive was issued in the aftermath of the Battle of Crooked River, a clash between Mormons and a unit of the Missouri State Guard in northern Ray County, Missouri, during the so-called "Mormon War" of 1838. Insisting that the Mormons had committed "open and avowed defiance of the laws", and had "made war upon the people of this State," Boggs precipitously directed that "the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary for the public peace—their outrages are beyond all description."

While the order is often referred to as the "Mormon Extermination Order" due to the phrasing used by Boggs, relatively few people were killed as a direct result of its issuance. However, the state militia and other authorities used Boggs' missive as a pretext to expel the Mormons from their lands in the state, and force them to migrate to Illinois. Mormons did not begin to return to Missouri until 25 years later, when they found a more welcoming environment and were able to establish homes there once more. In 1976, citing the unconstitutional nature of Boggs' directive, Missouri Governor Kit Bond formally rescinded it.

I think the Book of Mormon is a complete fairy tale but so what? There is a lot of violence and brutality in the Bible, most if not all of it is in the OT. We don't reject the Bible because of that negative stuff do we?

The USA has a Mormon running for President who has an impeccable personal and business record and is a genius when compared to the present idiot in the WH. His VP is a brilliant young Conressman who is a devout Roman Catholic named Paul Ryan.

Mormonism may be an odd cult and totally outside my belief system as a Catholic but Mormons are a good people who have never harmed and do not harm anyone. Their anoying practice of ringing our door bells by well dressed young men dressed in suits who want to talk us about their cult and hand us Morman tracts is their only "crime" as far as I know.

22 August 2012 at 15:11  
Blogger David B said...

The best thing to do with Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops is not to martyr them, and it won't happen

One option would be to ignore them, like an increasing number of culturally Catholic lay people, another to point out when they are spouting tosh.

Which is most of the time, not least in this particular case.

David B

22 August 2012 at 15:13  
Blogger John Magee said...


Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Britain now allow Muslim men to have as many as four wives, permitted by the Koran, so long as these British Muslims marry their wives in a Muslim country?

If this is so, how can Mormon polygamy in the past and practiced by only a few of their sects today, be an issue?

22 August 2012 at 15:15  
Blogger John Magee said...


You are saying Catholic Bishops should be killed? That is totally insane.

I hope you don't identify with the left or call yourself a "liberal".

22 August 2012 at 16:05  
Blogger Jon said...

John Magee - I think you misunderstood the nature of my post to Dodo. I couldn't care less what Mormons believe, and regard their magic pants as pretty hilarious.

Presumably, mormonism is a dangerous cult if you believe that not being a catholic causes one to not go to heaven though. I was expressing surprise at Dodo allowing the identification of common cause without comment, was all.

22 August 2012 at 16:35  
Blogger Jon said...

John Magee - where does David B say that? Are you sure you have your specs on?

22 August 2012 at 16:35  
Blogger Shacklefree said...

I think severe persecutions of Christians are going to occur much earlier than the successor to the archbishop's successor.

22 August 2012 at 17:04  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

JM: "Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Britain now allow Muslim men to have as many as four wives, permitted by the Koran, so long as these British Muslims marry their wives in a Muslim country?"

Religiously marry. Bigamy and polygamy is a crime in the UK if done under UK marriage law.

22 August 2012 at 17:39  
Blogger David B said...

A lot of rampant paranoia in this thread.

Consider how annoying Jehovah's Witnesses are. Do they get persecuted, other than being told to shove off when they knock on people's doors, or something to that effect.

No, they are not! Not in the secular West, anyway.

Other than sometimes being prevented from killing their kids from faith based neglect, regarding blood transfusions, but to term that persecution seems to me a bit of a misuse of the word.

Don't forget that secularism is the best guarantee of religious freedom. I don't know why some of you guys have such a down on it.

David B

22 August 2012 at 17:45  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector suspects that this continuing decline in the moral fabric of society in the west will be a strengthening of resolve of the faithful. The young love to be rebellious and questioning. One looks forward when the young are taught to be God’s Christian soldiers again, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before...

22 August 2012 at 17:51  
Blogger David B said...

Inspector, do you mean like Jihadists and Talibanista?

People looking for martyrdom and prepared to kill as well as die for their faith?

I do hope not, but if so then a secular authority would surely have to take steps against any such people.

Would you term the measures taken against Islamic terrorists persecution?

David B

22 August 2012 at 18:25  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


... because everyone knows that the Church hasn't exactly been a consistent instrument of human progress.

Interesting. 'Progress' implies covering distance in a deliberate direction, and direction can only be measured relative to a reference frame. What might be the reference frame you assume when you make such an absolutist statement?


22 August 2012 at 18:31  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The secular west is not a jurisdiction I am aware of

I understand the west is a geographic coordination in which a great many states have been established predominantly by those of Northern European Heritage

I also understand those states mainly had seperation between church and state, yet the secularists within the state have crossed that line

For some Folk and Faith are inseperable as it identifies you in a cultural sence

Which again is why in a natural organic system the culture creates the state which governs them, as opposed to the state creating the culture, which is what we are seeing in this cultral marxist system

22 August 2012 at 18:39  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Shame on you David B, comparing determined upright Christians with the behaviour we associate with the beliefs of the {...AHEM...} lesser races. But of course, every little helps in your crusade to morally bankrupt our nation, wouldn’t you say ?

22 August 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say Bone, keep it quiet old chap. Your ‘natural organic’ solution will invariably involve the concept of ‘common sense’, which of course has the same effect on a liberal like that chappie David B as has a crucifix in those Hammer horrors. They’ll be gunning for YOU soon. Look out for the ‘latent homosexual’ taunt the Inspector has had to endure here...

22 August 2012 at 18:49  
Blogger len said...

The Cardinal is outlining the way the 'wheel has turned full circle' and Christianity will eventually be 'outlawed'.
It is quite dangerous to be a Christian in many Countries today.

The 'Arab spring ' which has brought revolutionary forces into positions of power has increased the danger to Christians living in Muslim dominated areas of the World.

Far from bringing in Democracy these Arab revolutionaries may go the way of bringing in 'radical Islam'.

'Christians are fleeing the Middle East in an unprecedented exodus. More than half of Iraqi Christians — an estimated 400,000 people — have left that country over the last decade as power has fallen in the hands of increasingly hostile Shi’a Islamic leaders. In Egypt, home to at least 8 million Copt Christians — a number that exceeds the populations of Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, and Tunisia — at least 95,000 Christians have emigrated since March 2011. The number could reach 250,000 by the end of this year, reports the Egyptian Federation of Human Rights.'(Source Newsmax)

Christianity is under threat in the West but this is not of the life threatening form but there is a sustained attempt to silence Christians by using Political Correctness as a weapon( backed up by the legal system).

22 August 2012 at 19:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len, the ‘Arab Spring’ was only possible with the advent of new western technology.- to wit, the WWW. The dictators involved know this and are cracking down hard on ANY western influence and regrettably that includes Christianity. The very fact that Christianity in these regions predates Christianity in the west is sadly lost on these thickos....

22 August 2012 at 19:23  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

Where have you been? Apparently it's just fine in Britain for Muslim husbands to now collect welfare payments for up to the max number of wives the Koran allows which is four. How does it feel to live in a multi-cultural country with two legals systems? One for white Christian Britain's and another for 3rd world Muslims?

London Evening Standard

Muslim husbands with more than one wife to get extra benefits as ministers recognise polygamy
Department For Work And Pensions

03 February 2008

Husbands living in a "harem" with multiple wives have been cleared to claim state benefits for all their different partners.

A Muslim man with four spouses - which is permitted under Islamic law - could receive £10,000 a year in income support alone.

He could also be entitled to more generous housing and council tax benefit, to reflect the fact his household needs a bigger property

Extra benefits: Muslim men with multiple wives can claim more for income support

Ministers have decided that, even though bigamy is a crime in Britain, polygamous marriages can be recognised formally by the state - provided they took place overseas, in countries where they are legal.

The outcome will chiefly benefit Muslim men with more than one wife.

Ministers estimate that up to a thousand polygamous partnerships exist in Britain, although they admit there is no exact record.

Potentially, the benefits bill for income support could reach £10m.

Or this from 2012:

The Jewish Press

August 1, 2012

Muslim Polygamists to Get More Welfare Benefits in Britain

By: Soeren Kern

Muslim immigrants with more than one wife will see an increase in their social welfare benefits beginning in 2013, when reforms to the British welfare system come into effect.

Although polygamy is illegal in Britain, the state effectively recognizes the practice for Muslim men, who often have up to four wives (and in some instances five or more) in a harem.

Currently the state pays extra wives in polygamous households reduced amounts of individual income support, in addition to the normal amount received by the husband and his first spouse.

Under the new rules, however, the extra wives will be eligible to claim a full single person’s allowance (despite being married), while the original married couple will still receive the standard married person’s allowance.
The changes are part of wide-ranging reforms to the welfare system that are being implemented by Prime Minister David Cameron’s coalition government, which admits that it wants to treat extra wives as single so that the state will not officially be recognizing polygamy as it is under the current system.

"treat "eExtra wives" as single" !!!!

22 August 2012 at 19:34  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John, there’s something wrong with immigration when the immigrant is an immediate benefit of welfare. The UK is not the bloody dustbin of the world, so why do our politicians allow this to continue. The Inspector waits patiently as the large number of liberals on this site fall over themselves to put this man right...

(From the Inspector – not a drop of UK blood in him...)

22 August 2012 at 19:47  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Five days ago, a gay activist stormed the offices of the Family Research Council (FRC) in the US, a pro-marriage ally in the fight against homosexual so called marriage, the homosexual attempted to barge into their offices with a loaded weapon, and when confronted by a security officer, tried to murder the guard and thereby intimidate Christians and marriage supporters everywhere. It's the same thing that terrorists try to accomplish—use deadly force to intimidate opponents into submission.

The armed gay activist was reportedly carrying a large cache of ammunition. He apparently complained about their pro-marriage position.

Fortunately, despite being shot, the security officer was able to stop the would-be assassin. That guard is the true hero, and his courage no doubt saved many lives. But this is a wakeup call for marriage supporters everywhere.

It's been five days now and still the DC police department refuses to characterize the attempted murder of pro-marriage Christians as a hate crime. It's outrageous. A gay activist tries to murder executives at a prominent pro-marriage group; he specifically complains about pro-marriage positions during his murderous spree of terror. And this is not a hate crime?

Can you imagine what would happen if a pro-marriage activist did something like this to a prominent gay group? It would be international news for weeks, and there would be unceasing demands for police investigations.

These violent and hateful tactics of intimidation are being pursued every day by gay "marriage" thugs and activists. They will do whatever it takes to intimidate Christians and marriage supporters including harassing people at home and work.

This attempted murder by the gay activist occurred just one day after the so-called Human Rights Campaign, the U.S's largest and wealthiest homosexual lobby, publicly branded the FRC a "hate group."

FRC's hateful crime? Opposing homosexual "marriage."

22 August 2012 at 19:51  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Anyone intrigued by Mrs King’s donation to this goodly site, and who would like to know more about militant homosexuals’ attitude to Christianity might want to check out the ‘Pink News’ site. This was one of the Inspector’s favourite destinations of evening until the site owners decided to ban him, his heirs and descendants in perpetuity and also for ever. Should any of you feel the need to drop
them a post, do mention the ‘Inspector General’ is thinking of them.

pip pip !

22 August 2012 at 20:07  
Blogger ZZMike said...

Jon said...
"Dodo - so you don't regard Mormonism as a dangerous cult?"

First, define "cult". The OED (or Webster's, for those if us across the pond) would be a good place to start.

Then compare it with some real cults - Scientology, for one).

Second, explain your concept of "dangerous".

Perhaps we've missed the news stories of Mormon missionaries killing people who refuse to convert (like that other well-known cult); how they're kidnapping people and locking them in compounds; how they're strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up markets; ...

Naomi: A recent National Review article wrote that one of the most effective arguments against gay marriage is a "gay pride" parade.

22 August 2012 at 20:26  
Blogger John Magee said...


I regard Britain as one of the top most decent countries on earth.

22 August 2012 at 20:38  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John, but that is taken as read, Sir. Your point being...

22 August 2012 at 20:48  
Blogger John Magee said...


In my mind Britain, to be specific England, is (or was) one of the most decent places on earth for a myriad of reasons. I also believe that Britain's largess is being heavily abused by immigrants who chose to come there to live while they deliberately abuse the system and refuse to assimilate.

I have a long long list of why I think Britain is good and decent country but it would bore everyone. No need to post it. It should be obvious to anyone with a sense of history and appreciation of freedom.

The PC leftwing Empire haters and Christophobes will disgree with me I am certain.

Too bad!

22 August 2012 at 21:38  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

That’s the spirit, John. We are heading for a lowering in our standard of living. The housing market is ‘broke’ so they tell us. Now that’s because there are disreputable foreign types among us who would lie and cheat to get a mortgage. As a result, the financiers are trusting no one. Everyone else suffers for this. With a lowering of living standards, people are going to ask questions. Serious questions like why has it gone so wrong. Chaps like David B are going to say it’s no one one’s fault and lets continue as we have been doing. The people are so much more astute than our weak liberals give them credit for...

22 August 2012 at 22:06  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

...AHEM... for broke read ‘broken’

22 August 2012 at 22:08  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

JM; "I have a long long list of why I think Britain is good and decent country but it would bore everyone."

Because of our liberalism and tolerance? ;)

22 August 2012 at 22:15  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

JM: "Where have you been?"

I nipped off to the future. 2013, to be precise.

22 August 2012 at 22:19  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Inspector it is always such a joy to hear of you and your doings.

Here is a little more about our homosexual brethren and their delightful behaviours.

The shooting incident was not the first time that an attack against a pro-marriage group has occurred. Just a few days before the shooting at the FRC, homosexual activists assaulted U S National Organisation for Marriage's headquarters in Washington with a bag containing gay sex toys and soiled adult diapers filled with human feces. They also left a disgusting note designed to intimidate the National Organisation for Marriage's hardworking staff of believers, who are doing nothing more than defending God's definition of marriage.

The police sent officers round, including an "LGBT unit" officer, to investigate the crime and almost immediately the LGBT unit declared this NOT to be a hate crime. As far as anyone knows, nothing has been done to attempt to find the delinquent thugs responsible for this harassment. What does it take for the police to declare attacks against Christian, pro-marriage supporters to be a hate crime?

Supporters for traditional marriage were described by Mayor Vincent Gray of the District of Columbia recently "You know, when people don't support marriage equality, ... there just is no place for them in this city." said Mayor Gray, It seems that the police have heard the message loud and clear.

Christian friends, this is what we're up against in this fight both the political machine and the gay activist bullies.We need to fight back and defend marriage. It is time for good people across the nation to stand up and tell the gay marriage thugs that this is where their attacks end. Today, right this very minute! Remember: the only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to him. That's what Christians all over this land are doing, God's people need your boldness, courage and commitment. Just like the Cardinal said. It could be prison and martyrdom.

22 August 2012 at 22:23  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

One does what one can, Mrs King. One has long noticed a gap between what the politicians want and what the people want. One doesn’t want to disparage democracy too early, but if we are are heading down the slippery slope, one hopes the armed forces of this country are there to save us, if the worst comes to the very worst, that is...

22 August 2012 at 22:29  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Naomi: "Here is a little more about our homosexual brethren and their delightful behaviours."

I think most of us are too busy lusting after those pictures of Prince Harry at the moment, to be honest. :)

22 August 2012 at 22:32  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Danj0, don’t over do it now, you will need your strength for the new day that is tomorrow :- >

22 August 2012 at 22:47  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I bet even Mrs King has had a peek at his ginger loveliness, albeit through the fingers of an eyes-covering hand.

22 August 2012 at 23:02  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Sexual obsession is so very unhealthy in those past 20 years of age. Past 40 and some form of professional intervention is demanded - and I do not mean the "oldest profession".

22 August 2012 at 23:22  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Is there any sanction about camping it up for the homophobes? ;)

22 August 2012 at 23:29  
Blogger John Magee said...

Naomi King

I am old enough to remember when many if not all males I was assocaited with, liberals and conservatives, made fun of homosexuals and sneered at them. It was the times, the 50's and 60's and unfortunately men did this sort of thing in Western countries just like they used to whistle at an attractive women and pinch them too. Today radical liberals treat traditional Christians with the same sneering and loathing and have the temerity to claim to be "tolerant and liberal. Then suddenly in the late 70's the liberals realized Gays were a voting block and their votes were needed to win bif city elections. Especially in USA cities with large Gay populations like San Francisco, CA... PRESTO CHANGE-O! Liberals started to be tolerant of Gays (just barely) and got most of their votes.

A few weeks ago the American writer Gore Vidal died in his late 80's. He was, as most people know Gay, and lived with his male lover for over 40 years. In the early 1960's Gore Vidal, who was related by marriage to Jackie Kennedy Onassis through her mother's 2nd marriage, was at the White House when "Mr Liberal" Bobby Kennedy, younger brother of the President, literally threw Vidal out of the WH and called Vidal a "fairy" because of something Vidal had said to everyone in the room. I hope it wasn't, "may I kiss you on the lips Bobby?".

By 1968 Bobby Kennedy was courting the first openly homosexual groups in the USA to get their votes.

Interesting how some politicians with no backbone change with the times to get votes isn't it? Bobby Kennedy and JFK in the late 1940's both supported Senator Joe McCarthy and his anti Communist crusade. So much so that Bobby Kennedy became a legal advisor to McCarthy and even named asked McCarthy to be the Godfather of his first child Kathleen!. Personally I view the Kennedy's support of Mccarthy as one of the few good things they ever did. I agreed with them on suporting McCarthy because almost everything McCarthy claimed about Communists infiltrating the USA gov't from the 1920's forward later turned out to be true.

23 August 2012 at 00:24  
Blogger John Magee said...


How old are you? Fifteen?

23 August 2012 at 00:26  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

Looking at Prince Harry's physique in photos of him in his military uniforms I wouldn't advise any Gay men asking him to French kiss if they valued their teeth and jaw bone.

23 August 2012 at 00:32  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Magee, older and wiser than you.

DanJ0, ever the attention seeker. You 'camp it up' until your little hearts content. Hopefully, you will grow up one day.

23 August 2012 at 01:30  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo, you ought to read about Transactional Analysis by Eric Berne, Mavis Klein etc. That sort of transaction is never going to work with assertive, self-confident people like me who understand the model very well. ;)

23 August 2012 at 02:04  
Blogger John Magee said...


You are older and than me? I was born in January 1948. It would be nice to know if someone here was older than me. Wiser than me? If you say so it must be true. I don't consider myself at all qualified to be called wise or very smart either. I'm simply chock full of trivia about obscure stuff that interests me and I like to share these things if the conversation warrants it.

23 August 2012 at 03:37  
Blogger Naomi King said...


23 August 2012 at 07:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Amusement? Irreverence? Not taking you at all seriously even though you want to be? Yep, busted. :)

23 August 2012 at 07:30  
Blogger len said...

John Magee,I am certainly older than you(June 1947 and still working full time due to the incompetence of various Governments and the false claims of various private pension companies which proved to be virtually worthless)whether I am wiser than anyone on this site is debatable.I suspect many would challenge that claim(If I made it)
God is the source of all wisdom(any worth knowing about anyway )so I try to draw any wisdom I have from the scriptures themselves verified by the holy Spirit.

Back to the point in question 'Liberalism'( in Europe at least) is the root cause of many of our problems.'Liberalism aided by 'Human rights' is as tool used by the unscrupulous to 'get their own way' at the expense of the Majority.
'Liberalism' is seen by the unscrupulous as 'a weakness' and they manipulate it for their own gain.

Our Politicians seem to be unable to say "No" to any minority clamouring and protesting for 'their rights'even when their rights trample on the 'rights' of others.

Our Society is' breaking down' in Europe, militant Islam is rising and anyone who 'stands back' and looks at the situation can surely see we are heading for some sort of catastrophe.

The very bedrock of our society is being taken apart and undermined by those who wish to rebuild it in 'their own image'but I thing that they will find that' The Brave New[liberal] World ' they have envisaged will turn into a living nightmare with the' enemy of God' re- installed and with[temporary]limitless power.
The danger with God is that He might actually give what you ask for and for those who despise God(who are very vocal) and if people through apathy or ignorance raise no objection for their insistent demands then we will get what they demand by default.
When God withdraws a 'vacuum' is presented and will be filled with every evil spirit, this is already happening with mass killings etc. There will be a continued 'rising tide of evil, chaos and destruction as God withdraws not by His desire but God will not remain where He is not wanted.God will not have to Judge us but merely leave us to' our own ends' and we will destroy ourselves through ignorance(of spiritual matters)and apathy.

If we return to God He will return to us but I fear that time has already passed.

23 August 2012 at 08:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector General was born in 1870...

23 August 2012 at 09:24  
Blogger Jon said...

Carl - ah yes. Of course, we must have a cosmically significant reference plane. It wouldn't be possible to measure progress by our own instinctive view of the march from witless cave dwellers afraid of lightning via witless hut dwellers afraid of whatever the clergy told them to be afraid of, to half- wits endlessly arguing online even though no one ever changes their minds anymore? ;-)

DanJ0 - I agree. I've thought for a while that Harry was the one to watch.

John Magee - I think you'd find Harry would politely decline the offer of a snog from a bloke rather than hit you for offering. I doubt his masculinity is as easily offended as yours appears to be.

Mrs King, since you assume that everyone acting in the name of gay marriage is somehow sanctioned by everyone else, are you also prepared to accept that someone acting in the name of your God has your personal explicit sanction? I assume not, since you'd have to back some pretty awful characters! As such, please, pipe down.

23 August 2012 at 11:35  
Blogger Jon said...

ZZMike, I had already addressed your point at 16.35.

Interesting that you think that the best argument against gay marriage is a gay pride parade. The best argument against the supposed cleansing power of the Holy Spirit is 5 minutes with some of the commenters here. Which rather undermines Christian theological objections to gay marriage!

23 August 2012 at 11:41  
Blogger John Magee said...


My masculenity is not, not nor has it ever been, "offended" by Gays. The issue is my dislike of all forms of radicalism, and that includes leftist Gay radicalism, funded and activated by the left with the intention of bringing down the ancient institutions of Western Civilization especially the Church (churches). Average Gay men and women have as much right to live their lives as anyone else as they chose but I question those on the left wing of their radical agenda's "right" to insult Christians and others in public demonstrations by mocking our beliefs or invading our churches as an excuse to "protest" our beliefs. Gyas are well known as a highly creative people. Their have contrubutes to Western Civilization are enormous. Just one of many examples is Michelangelo who designed the dome of St Peter's at the Vatican and gave Catholicism and the world great art and sculpture such as his beautiful and inspiting Pieta inside St Peter's Basilica.

The problem with your ilk on the Left is that you are unable to "get" a joke. Unless it's at the expense of conservatives or tradional people like me That's the trouble with liberals. They have absolutely no sense of humor and make everything a political issue or a "hate crime" when none was intended.

I was JOKING about Prince Henry being asked for a French kiss from a Gay. Get it ?

My apologies for my droll sense of humor which goes right over your head.

23 August 2012 at 16:10  
Blogger John Magee said...


Being born in 1870 was a good time to get a start in the world. That was the era when the British Empire was at it's peak. Britain was prosperous and an industrial giant of the world along with Germany and the USA. Cities in Britain were growing fast and gave us the look that many still have today in spite of WW II bombings and making way for skyscrapers in the 1960's. You must be ready to retire at age 142.

I was born in 1948 but my soul was "born" sometime in the late 1400's in Florence, Italy... Later it wandered to Catholic Bavaria, in what is now Southern Germany, and Austria in the 1600 and 1700's where beautiful Baroque and Roccoco chuches and palaces were being built in that wonderful countryside full of charming villages and countryside with beautiful cities like Munich, Salzburg, Vienna, and Prague in Bohemia. Those places were filled music of Mozart and other great composers...

Maybe there is something to reincarnation? Sometimes I think that is why many people have a strong identity with a certain place or time. But let's not get onto that subject!

23 August 2012 at 16:25  
Blogger Jon said...

John Magee,

Have you ever considered a career in standup? You'd be AMAZING. See, you can tell I was being sarcastic, because I put the last part in caps. Maybe you could try using emoticons next time? Or hold up some kind of sign?

I don't know why you seem to think calling me a liberal will upset me. I'm not sure I'm entirely worthy of the moniker, but I'd wear it with pride.

I think the trouble with your argument is that you demand the right to make jokes about people, but don't like them being made about you and stuff you care about. I'm glad you're impressed with gay people's contribution to society though.

23 August 2012 at 17:00  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


Without a "cosmically significant reference plane" your orignial statement has all the heft of that silly "Doomsday Clock" promulgated by the Union of Concerned Scientists. Said clock didn't represent the imminent proximity of nuclear war. It represented the the level of agreement between what governments were doing and what the UCS thought those governments should be doing. But who made the opinion of the UCS authoritative?

Without some objective measure of progress your statement reduces to:

... because everyone knows that the Church hasn't exactly been a consistent instrument of supporting things that I prefer.

Of course it hasn't. But what difference does that make? What you want to imply that the church is standing in the way of objective Good - where 'Good' is defined by 'progress' and 'progress' is implicitly defined by you. But who made you an authority? There must be an objective reference frame or you have said nothing beyond an assertion of you own personal preference dressed up as a morally significant statement.

I find it interesting how often people on your side of the argument make appeals to objective concepts even as you deny those objective concepts exist.


23 August 2012 at 17:58  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Had to explain the facts of life to a ten year old today. Not that the Inspector minded all that much, but there was a time a fellow could be left in comparative peace while waiting at a bus stop. When asked where gay babies came from, had to simplify a bit. Said “When daddy one and daddy two love each other very much, they sue a Catholic adoption agency and the courts give them an innocent child who doesn’t deserve what’s happening to it…”. Didn’t work though, the brat came back with “You don’t expect me to swallow that, do you mister !”

Out of the mouths of children, eh ? Such is life…

23 August 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger John Magee said...


I made a joke about a famous person. NOT AN INDIVIDUAL HERE!!!!
I can laugh at myself because I know I am not perfect.

23 August 2012 at 18:16  
Blogger John Magee said...


Very good!

We live in a world today where everything is topsy turvy and out of the mouths of politically correct left wing adults comes baby talk.

23 August 2012 at 18:26  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. One feels there is something in a descendent ‘inheriting’ a grandparents ‘attitude’. Of course, we know that genetics can provide a child with a large number of those brain connections, neurons, which allows superior intellect to continue through the generations. Is it such a great leap to suggest that underlying the soul is a physical network that allows you to think the way your grandfather did ? And to really push the theory, what about actually inheriting part of his soul, his experiences, through the brain.

23 August 2012 at 18:38  
Blogger John Magee said...


I know nothing about human genetics. I can only guess that if we can inherit through our parents DNA who we are and certain family illnesses and other potential physical health factors somehow we must also inherit our ancestors intellectual capacities and talent for certain skills. This is obvious. We have seen this all our lives in family members and in others. Like you, I have a suspicion that some people, in a way we don't understand yet, can inherit through thier DNA a "past memory" from their ancestors that surfaces in their lives with an afinity for a certain place or time from the past or a special talent. I have always thought this about myself and I suspect you have too.

I quess this would be called DNA reincarnation?

We will get a lot of flak for this.

23 August 2012 at 21:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. The only flak we will get is from the atheists. It is not to their cause that we are anything but what we appear to be. Otherwise it suggests that there is something operating we know nothing about. Having put God in the bin, they are not about to accommodate that which cannot be proved, yet advances in science is all about that which could not previously be proved.

Fortunately, it’s their conundrum, not ours...

23 August 2012 at 21:15  
Blogger John Magee said...


Catholicism and to a lesser degree it's children the Protestants are creators. Look at Western Christian Civilization and it's enormous spiritual and cultural accomplishments since Pentecost. Atheists are jealous. All they do is whine, wreck, and wish for a heaven on earth.

They had their chance in the USSR and look at the misery and death that system caused in the last century in the name of atheism. Now it's in the ash heap of history. Deo Gratius

23 August 2012 at 22:44  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Agreed John. You don’t find many pubs called “The Happy Atheist”, what !

23 August 2012 at 22:52  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Or even the "The Gay Atheist".

Patent the name - quick!

24 August 2012 at 00:28  
Blogger John Magee said...


I am sure there were no Lancaster's or B-17's that flew over Nazi Germany during WW II named: "There Ain't No God"


Let's not forget that the USA B-29 that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima was named "The Enola Gay". It was, of course, named after the pilot's mother, Enola Gay Tibbets.

I wonder what Japanese Gays think about that historical coincidence?

The atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was named "Little Boy"

No commet about that.

24 August 2012 at 03:06  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. Brilliant. “World’s fist atomic weapons were assembled by homosexuals shock”.

Let’s see if our resident newshound David B picks this up and runs with it. One problem though, no apparent opportunity for him to have a dig at Christianity, but he is a resourceful fellow, so don’t be surprised if gay priests are ‘involved’....

24 August 2012 at 12:38  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

You guys are trying really, really hard and yet nobody seems to be biting. :(

24 August 2012 at 14:25  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

24 August 2012 at 17:23  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Wow! This does seem to be a bit of bleak outlook for the world. If we were about to go back into the vortex of the 1930s and 1940s, with tyrants like Hitler and Stalin around, I would understand the statement a bit more.

24 August 2012 at 17:26  
Blogger ZZMike said...

John Magee: You're right, of course, about England being a decent country.

I assume, of course, that by that you mean "inhabited by decent people".

Unfortunately, it's now Formerly Great Britain.

Even some members of the Royal Family have been exhibiting very common behavior.

24 August 2012 at 18:07  
Blogger John Magee said...


It's just the word associations with the dropping of the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima I found interesting "Enola Gay" and "Big Boy"... I just was wondering what Japanese Gays thought of the name connections.

I am surprised politically correct half wits haven't blamed the ending of WW II in the Pacific by the dropping those nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (ultimately saving the lives of millions of Allied soldiers, sailors, and Japanese civilians if an invasion of the Japanese Islands had taken place after 1945) in some twisted way on the USA for being "homophobic" back then. Stranger things happen every day today in the minds of these left wingers.

24 August 2012 at 18:09  
Blogger John Magee said...

ZZ Mike

Correct: "inhabited by decent people"

The Royal family are born into a world of responsibilites expectations I can't fathom. They seldom have a monment of privacy. Lack of privacy and the freedom to move about as you please is the curse of being famous.

Too bad Anglicans have never made exceptional examples of Christian life saints as Rome does. I think the present Queen is well qualified by her example and hard work and dedication to her Christian Coronation vows she swore to uphold at her Coronation at Westminster Abbey in 1953 to serve her people as the first official Anglican candidate to be called a "saint". Being the decent person she is the very idea would appall her.

Rome has made royals saints. One example is King Louis 1X of France also known as St Louis. He was led an interesting and good life and went on two crusades. I am surprised the Muslim immigrants in today's France aren't screaming to have his memory erased from school and history books and his statues haven't been pulled down all over France. Of course this will happen sooner or later.

24 August 2012 at 18:49  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Pius V excommunicated her famous predecessor of the same name and called on her subjects to commit treason, ignore her laws, and overthrow her to help restore his power over England ... and look what followed. Funny old world.

24 August 2012 at 19:05  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0. You do have a poor grasp of your country’s history, don’t you. A few years earlier, a fellatio crazed adulterous dictator told the entire country their religion had changed, on pain of death. Now, to actually make you understand how this feels, think of the kings men pointing a sword to your throat and telling you that after all, you are not 100% homosexual, but straight. Put’s a different shine on it now, doesn’t it. The Papacy came to the aid of the beleaguered Catholics who held on. Again, to put this to your understanding, imagine if Islam attempted a takeover now...

24 August 2012 at 19:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "You do have a poor grasp of your country’s history, don’t you. [...] The Papacy came to the aid of the beleaguered Catholics who held on."

Actually, I don't think Regnans in Excelsis was that well received by Catholics. By Catholics, I mean the Catholic gentry, because I doubt most common people were much aware of it. It ramped up suspicion of plots, assassinations, and so on, and made their lives much more difficult. Until then, I think the focus was more directed at foreign powers than fifth columnists at home. Queen Elizabeth was relatively tolerant, given the nature of the times, before then. Bear in mind what was happening over in France, the Netherlands, and Spain.

24 August 2012 at 20:24  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0. The Catholic gentry, to wit, those that did stay loyal to the true faith, were in no doubt that the forces of state would catch up with them eventually. The pope was obviously appealing to the European giant of the time Spain, to act. And of course, he was heeded. What you are effectively saying is that given a scenario like 1940, and a successful invasion of this country by the NAZIs, it would be all over. That would be an end to it, resistance to cease...

24 August 2012 at 20:50  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

It didn't help anyone that the so-called English Mission got caught up in the power politics either. Then there were the Jesuits. We saw a few decades later where that sort of shenanigans was headed. The irony is that Regnans in Excelsis, far from helping anyone with its strident and damning language, probably put in place the opinions which have a legacy even today about the trustworthiness of the Roman Catholic Church regarding our internal political affairs. A bit unfortunate, that. Heh.

24 August 2012 at 21:00  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Perhaps god is looking after us here in England. ;)

24 August 2012 at 21:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Have you noticed how strong the Catholic presence is on this site ? It is possible to get passionate about Anglicanism too, so one is occasionally reminded. Only occasionally, that is...

24 August 2012 at 21:14  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Have you noticed how strong the Catholic presence is on this site ?"

It's been hard not to at times, it's almost as though it's been targetted. Especially on Friday and Saturday nights. *cough*

Right, I guess the rest of us had better clear off and leave you lot to run amok again. Remember to tidy up your empty whiskey bottles this time before you go.

24 August 2012 at 21:21  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0, your surrender accepted. Disarm and you will be allowed to live out your gay life in peace. The Inspector gives you his word on that. You might like to know the Inspector stumbled upon Cranmer by himself, and doubts that any targeting of the site ever happened. You see, one can can sniff out quality of product, and what the Archbishop gives us in his homilies is eagerly awaited by this man, merely one of many.

Right, off you go and google Harry’s nakedness (...again...)

24 August 2012 at 22:08  
Blogger len said...

The Inspector is draw like the proverbial moth, presumably to learn the basics of Christianity.....born again etc.....

24 August 2012 at 22:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len, as the Inspector’s intellect grows, so does his patience decline. Now scuttle off you imbecile – you have become somewhat tiresome of late...

24 August 2012 at 22:43  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...


Let's not be too harsh on DonJ0. He appears to be reading Church encyclicals. Admittedly, it appears, with the wrong motive. Perhaps when he starts to read some of the more recent ones he'll come to understand the doctrine behind them.

I doubt he is actually that committed to all that liberal nonsense he drones on about. It all sounds rather artificial to me.

As for the weasel len, these things are sent to try us. It seems he's over his Greek Orthodoxy phase and back to his familiar anti-catholic ways. I mean, it's really all that holds his protestant faith together.

25 August 2012 at 01:13  
Blogger ZZMike said...

John Magee: Queen Elizabeth is a lady who puts the "royal" back into "royalty". England has been blessed with two great queens in recent history: Victoria and Elizabeth II.

The march of history may have eroded the monarch's power (and overall, that's a good thing), but she at least, can hold her head high as long as she's on the throne.

25 August 2012 at 02:03  
Blogger John Magee said...

ZZ Mike

Considering that the late Queen Mother lived to be 102 I think the present Queen could be around for a good many years to come. Let's hope so.

25 August 2012 at 04:43  
Blogger John Magee said...

dan JO

Have you ever read about the "Pilrimage of Grace" and the "Lincolnshire Rising"? King henry the VIII's break with Rome and the forced Reformation was definately unpopular with the vast majority of the comon people in England especially in the North of England.

Pardon me while I post this which I hope will educate you about a period in your country's history you seem know nothing about:

Pilgrimage of Grace

The Pilgrimage of Grace was a popular rising in York, England during 1536, in protest against Henry VIII's break with the Roman Catholic Church and the Dissolution of the Monasteries, as well as other specific political, social and economic grievances. It was done in action against Thomas Cromwell. Technically the term Pilgrimage of Grace refers specifically and inclusively to the uprising around York, though sometimes it is used in relation to the risings in general which took place around northern England; first from Lincolnshire, twelve days before the actual Pilgrimage of Grace

Lincolnshire Rising

The Lincolnshire Rising was a brief dissent of Roman Catholics against the establishment of the Church of England by Henry VIII and the dissolution of the monasteries set in motion by Thomas Cromwell's suggested plan of asserting the nation's religious autonomy and the king's supremacy over religious matters.

It began at St. James Church, Louth, after evensong on 1 October 1536, shortly after the closure of Louth Abbey. The uprising was only against the attempt to suppress the religious houses, these being Catholic, and was not against the king himself. It quickly gained support in Horncastle, Market Rasen, Caistor and other nearby towns. Angry with the actions of commissioners, the protesters/rioters demanded the end of the collection of a subsidy, the end of the Ten Articles, an end to the dissolution, an end to taxes in peacetime, a purge of heretics in government, and the repeal of the Statute of Uses. With support from local gentry, a force of demonstrators, estimated at up to 40,000, marched on Lincoln and, by 14 October, occupied Lincoln Cathedral. They demanded the freedom to continue worshipping as Catholics, and protection for the treasures of Lincolnshire churches. It was led by a monk and a shoemaker, and involved 22,000 people.

The moratorium effectively ended on 4 October 1536, when King Henry sent word for the occupiers to disperse or face the forces of Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk, which had already been mobilised. By 14 October, few remained in Lincoln. Following the rising, the vicar of Louth and Captain Cobbler, two of the main leaders, were captured and hanged at Tyburn Most of the other local ringleaders met the same fate over the next twelve days, with a lawyer from Willingham being hanged, drawn and quartered for his involvement. Soon, however, the Lincolnshire Rising helped inspire the more widespread Pilgrimage of Grace.

25 August 2012 at 04:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

John, you appear to be cutting and pasting from Wikipedia, and without attribution too. I know another self-styled Catholic here who does that sort of stuff quite regularly.

Tudor history is one of the most well-known periods to people over here, you know. If attempts at condescension are de rigueur then let me tell you that Elizabeth I, the subject of my comments, became queen after Henry VIII as she was his daughter. Hope that helps.

Also, Henry was essentially a Catholic despite having contemporaries in State business like Thomas Cromwell and Thomas Cranmer. It was Edward VI, his son, who really transformed the English church into a Protestant organisation before Elizabeth became queen.

You may also like to know that Henry's daughter Mary, who was queen after Edward died, was not all that popular once she established herself. Burning State celebrities alive for heresy was one thing, burning local people alive for heresy was something different. Hence: Bloody Mary.

25 August 2012 at 07:48  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Also John, if you could point at the specific bit or bits in my comments you think you are arguing against with your cut and pastes from Wikipedia then it would help. By the look of it, you seem to be on a different track to me. Not for the first time either, I'm afraid.

Perhaps it all gets a bit muddled for you, what with liberals here, communists there, and atheists (who seem to be equivalent to communists) in between. You're basically a set of messed up fringe right-wing and religiously/socially conservative arguments looking for an opponent, it seems to me.

25 August 2012 at 08:09  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

What exactly is a "self styled Catholic"?

My right wing and traditional views are valid views that support the Magisterium in Rome and will outlast the present liberal catastrophe that has befallen not only some parts of the RC Church but all the major Protestant Churches. Some of them are literally collapsing today from their embracing every left wing fad that comes down the pike.

I am a convert to Roman Catholicism my paternal roots are Anglican. My mother was a non practicing Roman Catholic. Do you want my full autobiography?

Yes. I have quoted from the internet and when I do it's obvious. I do so to emphasize my point. I have a petty good general knowledge of history but I don't have total recall of every historical event that I have ever read and I don't pretend to know everything nor do I have the writing ability of a Charles Dickens that some here imagine they have. Do you have a problem if I go to the internet to back up my memory and fill in the details? If I told untruths or made up history you would be all over me. I also like to quote people in their own words VERBATIM to show their hypocrisy. I love the responses when I do that. Do you have a problem with that? Is anything I do like copy and pasting against Blog rules? If so show me where. If I am "guilty" report me and have me arrested by the internet Blog speech police. Better yet use your powers and have me banned or if you are a computer geek hack into my computer and wreck it.

Meanwhile please use your freedom of speech to say anything you please. But don't slander folks.

Oh, by the way, if you care to read a biography of Mary Tudor you will discover she was much more tolerant than the propaganda you have been told by establishment historians. She was willing to tolerate Protestants but Protestants didn't want tolerance. They wanted domination of England. As my post about the Pilgrimage of Grace and the Lincoln Uprising shows. The majority of the English people did not want Hernty VIII's National Church.

The treatment by Henry VIII of his first wife Queen Catherine of Aragon was disgraceful. She was beloved by the English people. After his attempts to try and dump her Henry VIII was even booed by crowds while he and entourage made their way through the streets of London and other English cities. He didn't take that too kindly.

Have a wonderful day.

25 August 2012 at 16:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

After all that verbiage, you've managed to skip over:

"Also John, if you could point at the specific bit or bits in my comments you think you are arguing against with your cut and pastes from Wikipedia then it would help."

Did you think I wouldn't notice?

25 August 2012 at 17:14  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Feel free to quote my words VERBATIM, I know you like to do that. ;)

25 August 2012 at 17:35  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

I feel no need (most likely) to quote you verbatim. All I said was that I use internet sources to quote famous people or people who have said things relevant to conversations here to make my point. That's all.

Keep in mind, since you are Gay, that even though I am a conservative and a traditionalist I will never condemn individual Gays (unless they are famous and insult Christianity) because I realize they, as individualas, are a thought of God and God loves their souls as he does all His children. Organized left wing radical Gays who are the tools of Marxists are a whole different matter entirely. I detest them and all they stand for politically.

25 August 2012 at 18:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Top tip for you here, John. If you're going to try to be condescending, as in the second paragraph of 25 August 2012 04:56, then make sure you understand the actual point you're responding to and don't try to 'educate' someone by just cut and pasting Wikipedia pages as though you're smart enough to know the contents. You just look like a numpty otherwise. Like now. So, off you go, and try not to trip over that tail between your legs.

25 August 2012 at 18:57  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

John MaGee

You're wasting energy and time on this blogger DanJ0.

Best to just point out the errors in his comments or the benefit of others and then simply ignore his attempts to drag you into trading personal insults.

It's just a game to him and he'll try to provoke you into rash comments to discredit Christians.

When you get right down to it, he's really just a troll.

25 August 2012 at 21:00  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

You didn't answer my question. You called me a "self styled" Catholic. What exactly does that mean?

Do I have my own "catholic" church somewhere? Am I the "pope" of Pennsylvania?
I don't think so.

Had you heard of the "Pilgrimage of Grace or the "Lincolnshire Rising" before I posted an article about those events here? I did. But I couldn't possibly write about it in detail without doing research. Which I did and I pasted the results here. What's wrong with that other than possibly of it being boring to those not interested?

Why do people go to libraries and borrow books or have their own collections at home? Other than God Almighty Himself, I know of no one who knows everything. Although it appears there are a few here, at times, who want others to think they do.

When a person writes a book about history or a biography are they supposed to have all the accumulated facts about the subject in the back of their head through osmosis or have total recall of every word they ever read in their entire life? No, they go to a library and do research. Or they can use the internet to fill in the details. Why do you think there are appendices at the end of nonfiction and text books? The internet is the library of the universe at our finger tips.

That's all.

25 August 2012 at 21:10  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. To echo Dodo’s sentiment, you are wasting your time with our gay man. Because of his homosexuality, he was never given the opportunity to find his own philosophy. He had to start with his situation as his base, and then see how philosophy fits around him. He never gave God a chance because Christianity frowns on active homosexuals. Having said that, and last been informed by him he is on his own, then perhaps his lack of activity is causing a revision of thought. We must rule nothing out...

25 August 2012 at 23:58  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Inspector, you may be on to something. One does wonder just who DanJ0 is trying to persuade by his arguments and abuse of those with strong convictions.

26 August 2012 at 00:47  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dodo and Inspector

Dan JO is no different than most of us who visit here. He is very opinionated. Just like you and me. I think the Holy Spirit guided Dan JO here for a reason and we should pray for him to come to know Christ. Even with some of his harsh and negative posts (I do the same trying to defend my views) I think Dan is a good person inside. Why else would he visit a Christian Blog like this, sponsored by an Anglican and open to all, other than to fill a need in his soul? His being Gay is a tough row to hoe in life which may be why he lashes out against Christianity. Let's be patient.

How about "tough Blog love"?

26 August 2012 at 05:05  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

John Magee: "You didn't answer my question. You called me a "self styled" Catholic. What exactly does that mean?"

It means someone who calls themselves a Catholic. Self-identifying, if you will, only not necessarily behaving as a Catholic in religious terms as one might expect. Take the two who have arrived on cue, doing their usual Saturday night thing, as an example.

The Inspector is just a cultural Catholic, I doubt he's been to church for years and he admits he just chooses bits that suit him. He's essentially harmless, bless him, despite some of the rather rum things he says. It seems a bit rich to call him a religious Catholic.

Dodo wears the Catholic label like team colours, in the manner of a Millwall supporter in the 70s and 80s. I’ve doubted many times he’s actually a Catholic. You'll realise at some point that he has no discernable moral sense. There's less of god about him than there is about me, and I'm a bloody atheist!

You know, it was quite indicative that last Christmas Eve and Easter, there was only really these two and me commenting down here, or exchanging insults more likely, while all the Christians were at church or presumably thinking their holy things.

"Had you heard of the "Pilgrimage of Grace or the "Lincolnshire Rising" before I posted an article about those events here?"

So, we’re back to the topic. Of course I had. John, I practically live in the grounds of Jane Grey's former family home. Like most people, I've stood in the Tower of London at the place where Anne Boleyn etc were beheaded and seen Henry's armour. I've wandered around Hampton Court, formerly owned by Cardinal Wolsey before his downfall and its passing on to Henry. And so on.

These are seminal aspects of our nation's history, shaping its culture even today. The Tudor period is, or was, a core subject in schools. These events, and things like the Pilgrimage of Grace, even get a mention in the currently popular works of historical fiction by Hilary Mantel, CJ Sansom, and SJ Parris etc. They’re familiar things to educated people in England.

As far as quoting Wikipedia is concerned, it's fine for waving an airy hand at stuff under discussion. Most people say when they're doing it though, instead of just ripping it off. It was your attempt to “educate” me, after Googling around yourself about stuff you claim I don't seem to know anything about, that was fighting talk. The bloody cheek!

It's bad enough that you're a 'Google savant' trying to use the contents of Wikipedia to be snotty, but it wasn't even actually relevant to what was being said. There's nothing in my comments that could be used to give rise to the charge of not knowing anything about it, as you must know, having twice avoided pointing out the bits in my comments you were basing it on when asked. You just launched yourself off like a berk.

26 August 2012 at 08:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Having said that, and last been informed by him he is on his own, then perhaps his lack of activity is causing a revision of thought."

I said that?

26 August 2012 at 08:26  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Anyway, back to my theme. There have been a string of key things that have shaped our political history and consciousness as far as Catholicism is concerned. That rather disastrous papal bull was one, the reign and persecutions of Bloody Mary was another, the plotting of Mary Stuart and her local and foreign supporters was yet another, and, of course, the Spanish Armada and the Gunpowder Plot.

The wider context of these things was obviously important. Memories of the strife in the Wars of the Roses must have important when considering the probability of foreign invasion by supporting Mary Stuart. The massacre of the Huguenots in Paris by Catholics certainly influenced key people like Walsingham who witnessed it. The Protestant turbulence in other parts of Europe was, of course, key to much of it.

26 August 2012 at 08:40  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

How about Martin Luther taking the side of the German princes during the peasant rebellion from 1524 -26 in what is now southern Germany?. Luther had some pretty nasty things to say about those peasants who had no rights and no way to improve theirlives under the still feudal rural principalities and revolted. Luther's pals the princes slaughtered the peasants. Of course he knew which side to take. The one with the guns and soldiers. If the pesants had won Luther's new church would have withered and died.

By the way. How did the British Monarchs get the title "Defender of the Faith"? It was given to Henry VIII by Pope Leo X in honor of Henry's anti Lutheran tract defending the Seven Sacraments. Luther had reduced the Seven Sacraments to two. Baptisn and the Lord's Supper.

26 August 2012 at 17:28  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

You can't judge The Inspector or Dodo's personal life anymore than anyone here can judge your private life because we don't know you personally and vice versa.

People come here for a whole lot of reasons. They go all the way from those who want to have serious discussions, to the ego maniacs, all the way to very nice lonely and intelligent people who have a sort of fellowship here with like minded people that is unavailable in their real lives. It's an interesting mix don't you agree?

In an odd sort of way blogs and internet chat rooms could be called a type of therapy.

26 August 2012 at 17:39  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Well, that's not entirely true. Heaven help you if you have anything about your personal life searchable by Google, Dodo will be on it like a bloodhound, declaring that it's all very revealing in some unspecified way. Including some terribly shocking revelations about shower gel if he can find them. :)

26 August 2012 at 18:41  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

You still peddling that lie around DanJ0? Shame on you. And hat a crock you posted earlier.

26 August 2012 at 18:49  
Blogger gentlemind said...

Logically, the cardinal is right. A marriage can only ever be one man and one woman, because the body of a child is the body of one man and one woman. If the state denies that reality, the state lies. The state then has to supress the truth by punishing those who will not lie.
But...logic is not inevitability. If i hold a wine glass and then let go, logic says the wine glass hits the floor. Probability says the wine glass smashes. Neither event is inevitable. Fear and paralysis may hinder me but, in truth, there is nothing stopping me from catching the glass as it falls.

27 August 2012 at 12:55  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...


True, unless your hands are tied behind your back. That's what the Cardinal is alluding to.

28 August 2012 at 02:10  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Well, except it relies on a particular definition of marriage. That is, it may be a valid argument but not necessarily sound. No amount of "logically" and "logic" steering words suffices if that unstated premise is simply not true any more.

28 August 2012 at 07:43  
Blogger gentlemind said...

@Dodo. My point refers to humanity as a whole. The glass of marriage is falling. No force can tie the hands of the human spirit.

@DanJo. If something is "not true any more" then it has never been true, and never will be true. I think your presence on this wonderful blog helps prevent others getting away with sloppiness. So...i offer you a more accurate way of looking at marriage. I hope it helps. Marriage exists at two levels: the (natural) relationship and the (artificial) legal institution. We don't have to be a fireman to put out a fire, because fire existed before the fire brigade. We don't have to be married to have children, because procreation and parents existed before the institution. Without fire, there would be no fire brigade. Without procreation, there would be no legal institution regulating marriages. Can we change what the fire brigade does? Yes. Can we redefine fire? No. Can we change what change what the institution of marriage does? Yes. Can we redefine parenthood? No. If we change the legal definition of marriage, we have a false definition of parenthood. Adoption does not do that. Nor do IVF or surrogacy or Civil Partnerships. Only a redefinition of marriage will allow the state to override the physical reality of parenthood.

28 August 2012 at 15:39  
Blogger ZZMike said...

"DanJ0 said...
Well, except it relies on a particular definition of marriage."

One of our earlier Presidents said that you can call a dog a cat is you wish, but it's still a dog.

Marriage is what it was, is, and will be, and no amount of trying to call a civil union a marriage is going to change that.

29 August 2012 at 00:42  
Blogger John Magee said...

ZZ Mike

To a radical liberal everything can be redefined and renamed to suit their latest social fads or political needs in order to undermine traditional values and morals. That is their goal.

It's interesting to note that liberals aand Gays are agaisnt allowing polygamy made law yet polygamy is an accepted state of marriage in Islam, with a few Mormons fringe groups today, pagan cults, and it was was once allowed in the OT.

A tiny minority is allowed to change ancient traditions and accepted beliefs about to suit there needs.

The irony is that Gays could have had legal civil unions. Most Western countries could not block this and civil unions would probably, though begrudgingly, accepted by the majority of the populations.

No, the left and radical Gays had to go after traditional marriage which was and always will be, no matter how they try to reinvent the word, the union of a man and a woman.

30 August 2012 at 15:36  

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