Sunday, January 06, 2013

Cameron: UKIP is made up of 'very odd people'

When Andrew Marr mentioned UKIP being full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists, David Cameron still wouldn't admit that he was wrong. He had a chance to make amends, but instead responded: "There are still some very odd people..."


Yes, that is undoubtedly true. Downright weird some of them.

But how normative is the political species in general? What is its social anthropology? Is David Cameron 'normal'? George Osborne? Boris Johnson? William Hague? Or are they all geeky obsessives and weirdos? Is the Prime Minister really telling us that the Conservative Party does not contain people whom the public might find just a little odd? Jacob Rees-Mogg? Nadine Dorries? Douglas Carswell? Does he forget that Neil and Christine Hamilton used to be Conservatives, along with Lord Pearson of Rannoch and many thousands of ordinary party members?

Do not the intellectual, moral and political traditions of all politicians converge to create a mental framework which is somewhat odd? Is not the entire political class something of a strange power-worshipping cult, obsessed with populism, believing in its own infallibility, tending towards totalitarianism, and quite detatched from reality?

The truth is that the bland, social-democratic milieu inhabited by the Prime Minister is hostile to anyone who believes anything particularly strongly, and averse to any group which expresses traditional conservative ideas. He doubtless finds Margaret Thatcher 'odd'. He finds UKIP 'odd' in the same way that he finds his party's own right flank odd: they present challenging ideas which need to be ruthlessly eliminated from his pre-ordained set menu of public debate.

UKIP is odd in the present political context because it embodies an ideology: Cameron is a servant of pragmatism. The Conservative right-wing is equally odd because their views tend to reflect those of the great majority of 'odd' party members, not to mention great swathes of the electorate. These views are not acceptable to the political class, and simply not understood by David Cameron.

We know what the Cameron mentality propagates about ordinary Conservative Party members: they are the ‘Turnip Taliban’, 'dinosaurs’ and ‘backwoodsmen’. If this is what they believe of their own supporters, it stands to reason that they might find members of UKIP more than a little 'odd'.


Blogger Andrew Montford said...

It's the uniform outward "normality" of so many members of the political class that should flag up to the public that these are people who are not to be trusted.

6 January 2013 at 12:52  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Vive l'étrange.

6 January 2013 at 12:53  
Blogger Twig said...

Coming from a man who thinks that lesbian bishops and same sex marriage is a priority over the collapse of the economy and law and order, that's rich!

6 January 2013 at 13:14  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6 January 2013 at 13:25  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

To be fair, there are some right loonies down at the grass roots level and they really stand out, especially on the Telegraph and the like.

6 January 2013 at 13:35  
Blogger Harry-ca-Nab said...

And this is before we get onto Labour politicians. Prescott, Burnham, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls, Marg Hodge, Catherine Ashton and then there is Labour25 ( ) fact it would be quicker to name a normal Labour politician but I can't think of one.

Just name one you'd like to have a drink with!

6 January 2013 at 13:43  
Blogger John Moss said...

Anybody actively involved in politics is "odd".

6 January 2013 at 13:49  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

You need a mini-revolution in the party, major pest control, house cleaning and then a pragmatist with balls, like our Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Your Grace. Your Conservative Party have become like our Progressive Conservativea of old; haughty, slippery and mildly corrupt Canadian establishment types indistinguishable from our leftie federal Liberals. If that won't happen, you might just have to jump ship and board UKIP. It's easier than you think, YG; just an "x" on a different name and no one will know. Given what your party has become under "Dave," what difference could it make if they lose to Labour?

6 January 2013 at 14:19  
Blogger Charles Dawne said...

What is more odd Mr Cameron is that the Conservative Party has a blatant liberal at its helm (odder still, is that its members voted him in).

6 January 2013 at 14:31  
Blogger Nicodemus said...

Odd, hmmm. Reminds me of a little ditty attributed to Edward Norman Ewer,

How odd, of God,
to choose the Jews!

But not so odd
As those who choose
A Jewish God
Yet spurn the Jews

Now, that is odd.

But I also know of a saying that says the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom.

All this foolishness puts our odd-ness into perspective don't you think!

6 January 2013 at 15:07  
Blogger IanCad said...

"---Is not the entire political class something of a strange power-worshipping cult, obsessed with populism, believing in its own infallibility, tending towards totalitarianism, and quite detatched from reality--?"

Yes, Yes, Yes, and again, Yes! YG.

6 January 2013 at 15:22  
Blogger Di said...

@ Nic:

Not odd
Of God
To choose
The Jews.

6 January 2013 at 15:57  
Blogger Berserker said...

Poor old UKIP. One has to admit that they do not choose their people wisely. Like the ghastly Hamilton couple - Neil (cash for questions) and Christine now in positions of power in UKIP land do not make me confident of UKIP's selection processes and not to mention the vitriolic reaction of UKIP MEP Marta Andreasen to the Hamiltons' appointments in UKIP (Andreason - Argentinian/Spanish) Sacked for not signing of the Commissions accounts when she was chief accountant there - I mean, who would? Now Andreasen - who one would think was the good guy, is herself being sued by a former co-worker! Then in the past there was that strange being - Robert Kilroy-Silk. What a kettle of stinky poissons.

Now that the BNP is in its death throes and the EDL is swathed in mystery, Joe Public has only UKIP left as a protest vote - it is just a pity that they are such squabblers. I shall probably vote UKIP at the next GE and as Cameron has been calling them fruitcakes since 2006 he must have a strong belief in their ability to survive in edible form after their 'sell by date'. Is he rattled? You bet!

6 January 2013 at 15:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Cameron and Clegg are presiding over the biggest migration of supporters ever. It’s not Cleggs fault that the Lib Dems support has collapsed. In the 1970s, this man remembers of the then Lib-Lab pact a commentator saying that it would only harm the Liberals in the long term. A party of whom 50% of its vote was merely a protest of ‘not the other two’.

Putting Cameron in charge of the Conservatives seemed a good idea at the time. He hoodwinked us all !!!

6 January 2013 at 16:27  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oddly enough (or not) Nigel Farage reminds me of Preston Manning. Different ends of the same spectrum, perhaps.

6 January 2013 at 16:34  
Blogger michael north said...

Preston Manning; who he? Is this a Canadian joke?

6 January 2013 at 17:51  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
It's not the people that are odd butt those who run the parties are odd. The populace are conned into thinking that they will do what they say they will do. Very rarely does this happen. They do what they have not said they would do.

6 January 2013 at 18:03  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Very good point, Ms Martha G. No joke, Mr North. The Canadian Reform party gave the Progressive Coservatives the much needed kick in the butt by becoming the more genuine conservative voice and choice and eventually merging with and changing the federal Conservatives by cleaning out the "Progressive" blight. I don't know enough about UK politics, though, to opine on whether there are parallels between our Reform and UK's UKIP. My uninformed guess is that a mass protest vote for UKIP would not be wasted ballots and can only improve matters.

6 January 2013 at 18:40  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6 January 2013 at 19:01  
Blogger John Magee said...

What has happened to the conservative establishment on both sides of the Gulf Stream? Where are the Margaret Thatcher's and Ronald Reagan's along with Lech Walensa, Pope John Pail II and Vaclav Havel today? They are few and far between because conservative establishment types grew up in the permissive era after the late 1960's which has been talked about so much here recently. They did not grow up during War II and most can only recall the very real threat of world domination by the USSR as a dim memory. They are economic conservatives and not values conservatives so they will sell out traditional conservatives every time as we see today because they have no core beleifs in our Western Civilization or Christianity.

Conservatives today are probably a majority out there in the hinterland but we have no real leadership because most of our leaders have become liek the liberals and can't identify with our valuies or concerns.

The few that do are mocked or risk their personal lives being torn to shreds by the media if thay have any flaws to be discovered in their lives.

Vaclav Havel, the famous Czech dissident, who spent several years off and on in jail in Communist Czechoslovakia for his writings against the Communist system and was the first President of a free Czechoslovakia after 1989 was adament that he have, as a practicing RC, a Roman Catholic state funeral at magnificent Gothic cathedral on the castle hill abive the old city of Prague,St Vitus's RC Cathedral, early last year to show former Communists and his people that Christianty did in the end triumph over Marxism.

It was Havel's way to publically triumph, as a Catholic and a Christian, over Marxism by his religious faith and democratic political beliefs the death of Communisism after his own death.

Unless we have these type of tough moral leaders again conservatives are doomed.

6 January 2013 at 19:27  
Blogger Berserker said...

See Paul Goodman's article in today's DT. about UKIP topping the polls.

A thought: That poor Chief Whip was murdered by the press and Cameron for saying: 'plebs' yet Cameron is allowed to call UKIP people fruitcakes, closet racists etc

6 January 2013 at 19:53  
Blogger bluedog said...

Indeed, Your Grace, some very astute points.

Cameron's greatest achievement has been to make UKIP the party of Middle England. It is unfortunate that UKIP has yet to gain traction elsewhere, but maybe that will come with domestic political success. But if UKIP can dominate Britain's representation in the EU, that will send a strong message to both Cameron and the EU.

The tragedy is that if UKIP gain over 50 seats as they seem to think they may, the next British PM will be Milipede. In that sense Cameron is right for once; a vote for UKIP could be a vote for Labour.

How much ruin can the UK stand?

6 January 2013 at 20:06  
Blogger John Magee said...


The left always gets away with their smarmy name calling tactics. No one in the media questions them about it do they? Let a conservative make one uncharitable remark which is true about a liberal and all hell breaks lose.

The moral outrage!

It's the eternal double standard.

In the USA this concept is known as "politics of personal destruction" and was created and perfected by one of Obama's pals from Chicago. A Marxist professor named Sol Alinsky. Alinsky's strategy for the far left is to say any outrageous lie in the media about a conservative and the people will believe it. Any response from or attempt by the accused will make him/her, after being cleverly edited by the liberal media, look like a fool. The more angry the innocent accused gets the worse they look.

This clever tactic of lies supported by the liberal media works for the left all the time.

6 January 2013 at 20:53  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The blighters on Radio 2 have moved the hymn slot from 8:30 pm on a Sunday evening to 6 am Sunday morning.

Blasted secularism !

6 January 2013 at 21:02  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

"...Cameron is right for once; a vote for UKIP could be a vote for Labour....How much ruin can the UK stand?

That's the question, isn't it, Berserker. Should Britain vote on principles which would result in demolishing the Conservativeskind of what happenned here in Canada? It depends on whether your Coservatives are significantly different from Labour. From the shenanigans in the news and the stream of complaits I read here, my guess would be that letting Labour steer an already sinking ship without a rudder and a date with an iceberg may be the better option. Living here in Canuckistan I don't have to live with the consequences though....


What? You're not up before 5 like I am, Inspector? (Not for hymns, of course, but apart from shakhrit/morning prayer obligations, I like the slow arrival of the dawn whilst a heavenly-smelling dark Colombian roast brews.) Think of this schedule change as a subtle form of secular persecution and appreciate that martyrdom will make you stronger.

6 January 2013 at 21:33  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Erratum and mea culpa, Inspectir. Only now did it sink in that it's on Sunday morning and you're a jolly bachelor who actually has a social life on Saturday nights. I only have distant, vestigal and vaguely fond memories of those times.

6 January 2013 at 21:38  
Blogger Span Ows said...

Is this a guest post?

If not I must tell HG that when he writes "David Cameron still wouldn't admit that he was wrong" it is because David Cameron ISN'T wrong; and he was wrong before either: here and elsewhere everybody seems to want to misquote and then knock down that strawman: did he say they were all odd? Did he say the UKIP voters were odd? Beforehand did he say they were all closet racists? Did he call UKIP voters racist? No. no. no. no, yet he is accused of all of these things.

6 January 2013 at 21:41  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Avi old pal. 6 am Sunday morning only exists in theory. It cannot be proved outright as this man has never seen it, but remove it, and the formula collapses...
A bit like Dark Matter / Dark Energy.

Anyway, the point is the BBC might as well broadcast the thing at 3 am in the morning....

BBC run by cultural Marxists you know, absolute rotters, what !

6 January 2013 at 22:14  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ha ha ha! I do witness Sunday mornings, Inspector, but that's only according to my inertial reference frame, or reference body, which would differ from your own quantum measurement. Things Miss Hannah may help us understand...after she explains to me how you can type with two hands whilst hanging onto the walls. According to desk globes I've toyed with, your ground level's nearly vertical, if you haven't noticed already.

But a bigger mystery than special relativity is why whenever I kibbitz with you I get an inclination to have a drop of single malt. We may need to look up Pavlov for that, I suspect.

6 January 2013 at 23:07  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

BBC iPlayer, old boy. Worth a try.

What on earth are you talking about? Have you been experimenting with Kabbalah? If so, Take care, just look what its done to Madonna!

6 January 2013 at 23:19  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

I gave up trying to understand Kabbalah years ago, Dodo, when I stopped experimenting with botanicals. Just wasn't the same without. On the other hand, Madonna is a gazillionaire and Im not, so one wonders...

6 January 2013 at 23:32  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Avi - dangerous combination old son. I've witnessed people never returning from treading such a path. Bet it was the love of a good woman. Who needs millions?

6 January 2013 at 23:35  
Blogger Emlyn Uwch Cych said...

Just a thought, though: If we can pinch the Governor of the Bank of Canada to run the Bank of England, why can't the Tories nab Stephen Harper to be party leader over here.

Preston Manning is a far better thinker than old Nigel, but Farage has a better way with the public. It really depends what you want.

6 January 2013 at 23:45  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7 January 2013 at 01:42  
Blogger Mr. Mcgranor said...

In America we are not so advanced in our commie aptitude. Thankfully due to a large number of bigots on the Right. So with that, we can see that you all are so advanced in your dismantling; that Europe will make a good theme park, for the Mohammedans to play in.

7 January 2013 at 01:44  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Mr Mcgranor

Don't be too cock sure that the USA is secure. Look at the beam in your own country's eye.

7 January 2013 at 01:55  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Hey, hey, hey, none of that, Emlyn. No poaching; Harper's ours. The bankers you can have. You're also welcome to the steady stream of Afghanis and Pakistanis who've been coming with their entire villages under "family reunification;" so much more congenial, not to mention the milder weather you enjoy. Anyway, we've been ruined by Liberals and faux Conservatives for decades and we deserve a break.

7 January 2013 at 03:11  
Blogger non mouse said...

You must be comfortable in your old Seat, Your Grace --- you're treating us to some outstanding posts here. Thank you, then, for your revelation of pots and kettles and soc dems, and smoke and mirrors.

And of Camoron, who's too blind to see himself 'in a glass darkly' and can't even raise his level to:
"All 't world is queer save thee and me, and even tha's a little queer." (Anyway, I expect he only knows the p-m meaning of "queer.")

So we must "bear . . . the insolence of office,"* while he carries on to queer our pitch -- like his forerunner Ivar the Boneless, who oozed up the Ouse to sack Jorvik in AD 766.

Strangely, though, "Odd" is another of those germanic words, and, according to Chambers, it relates to the OE ord = "point."

That relation hosts an irony clearly lost to Dolly Dave, for Anglo-Saxons used "Ord" in referring to a spear-point: source, beginning: front, vanguard: chief, prince; (in pl.) first men, the flower.**
So there you are, UKIP -:)
"Blest" you are indeed, and "not a pipe for Camoron's finger/to sound what stop he please" (pace Hamlet III.ii.72/3).
*Hamlet III.i.73
**Clark Hall, J.R. A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary. 4th ed. London: U of Toronto Press, 1960.

7 January 2013 at 05:11  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7 January 2013 at 08:49  
Blogger Preacher said...

I'm somewhat concerned that Tweedle dumb & Tweedle dumber are meeting to work out the policies for the second half political of their marriage of convenience.
Cameron has stated that he wants to hold the reins until 2020, will this mean that the runaway horse of the coalition will continue with two jockeys or should that read jokers?.
Or has Dave a plan to jump before 2015, using the only parachute & leaving captain Clegg with his boys to crash & burn?.
In light of the broken promises by the Master of Disaster & Boy Blunder, Re-election would seem like choosing two blind pilots to fly your holiday Jet plane.
UKIP may contain some odd people, but in the world of the blind, the man with one eye is King. To my mind, lt's worth giving UKIP a go, at least their title has United Kingdom in it.

7 January 2013 at 11:46  
Blogger Flossie said...

A good article in the Telegraph by Harry Mount this morning - Nigel Farage isn't odd – unlike most politicians, he talks like a normal person

7 January 2013 at 12:54  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Well I'm a member of UKIP and a bit odd. So there.

7 January 2013 at 13:56  
Blogger Woman on a Raft said...

Can't help noticing that on the subject of freedom, sovereignty, calling people rude names merely because they believe in nationality, there are 42 (at time of checking) comments.

On the subject of homosexuality, (previous post) there are 204. The conclusion must be that people care about one subject in a way they do not care about the other.

For ref: I'm relaxed about being called:-
- odd
- little Englander
- raaaaaaycist
- swivel-eyed loony.

I'm anxious about being called:-
- traitor
- "twice-fool" as in 'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me'.

7 January 2013 at 15:25  
Blogger non mouse said...

Ms. Raft ... I think that's rather a hasty conclusion @ 15:25!

Analaysis of responses to the previous topic will reveal that the same few respondents post on that topic habitually and ad nauseam. Indeed, they turn every strand toward that discussion, wherever possible. They appear to be as obsessed with it as the play president of the erstwhile UK.

7 January 2013 at 17:26  
Blogger Damian said...

ALDE claims that Farage has missed 447 votes and Nuttall 456 votes, or nearly 50 per cent of all roll call votes, ranking them 740th and 742nd for voting participation.

In three years, ALDE says that 12 UKIP MEPs have tabled no reports, 11 have tabled no opinions, nine have signed no written declarations or motions and seven have tabled no amendments to reports, ranking them "bottom of the pile" out of all MEPs.

Not forgetting they have been paid over 15 million Euros for nothing in this time period and you want people to vote for them?

If they are not representing and defending the people who voted for them in the European parliament do you really think they will represent you if elected to Parliament here?

They have been and always will be a safety valve party for the establishment.

7 January 2013 at 17:41  
Blogger John Magee said...


In our bizarre liberal culture a search warrant is needed to find common sense today. That's why decent, patriotic, rational men like Nigel Farage are hard to find in politics. Why go into politics today as a conservative if your life will be ruined by the media?

Farage is normal because the ordinary and good British people, and those of us abroad who watch him on Youtube, can understand and instantly identify with what he says because he dares to lift the veil of liberal hypocrisy and lies which govern us and control our media in 2012. What he says is universal and applies to all conservatives in all Western countries today.

Unless he is a saint he, and others like him are ones too, they will be destroyed by your left wing media using the tactics of "politics of personal destruction" I mentioned above. Name calling, which seems so juvelile, is one of their major tactics. Please look up the American Marxist Sol Alinsky who coined this term and perfected this method to destroy their oppositon by lies, inuendos, and if they are lucky by actual past indescretions by their victim. This concept is not new of course but Alinsky advocates blatant lies supported by the media. He must have read the Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels who once said "if you tell people a lie often enough they will soon believe it".

Once the liberal media hone their search light on a conservative they will shred him/her to pieces and there is nothing their victim can do to refute any accusations because the media will only report part of what they say in their defense. The media will then cleverly edit their victim's defense in order to make the politician look like a fool and a liar. That is if they report anything at all.

Men and women like Nigel Farange need our prayers for what they will have to endure because of their beliefs and values trying to save your country.

7 January 2013 at 18:02  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Might be an idea to canvass people on who’s been the oddest Prime Minister of recent years...

7 January 2013 at 18:47  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Surely a vote for UKIP is a vote for New Labour in the general election? They're the SDP of modern times.

7 January 2013 at 19:08  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0, exactly. That’s why UKIP and what’s left of the Conservatives will come to an ‘agreement’...

7 January 2013 at 19:30  
Blogger Naomi King said...

All I know is when Desmond Swayne MP former PPS of the Prime Minister and now in the whips office was at our dinner party with members of his OWN party who had concerns about Europe and its ever growing powers, he was rude, dismissive and condescending to them. Like servant like master.

7 January 2013 at 20:51  
Blogger Johnnyrvf said...

Damian, jf you think the European Parliament is anything else than an ersatz democratic body you know nothing of what the E.U. and Brussels is really about, they are there to rubber stamp the Commisioners marxist destruction of the 27 nations democracies and nationalities, the average MEP gets paid 12.000 euros a month NOT to get involved in parlimentary politics, Farrage knows this as do the others and by not turning up they cannot claim their expenses, so not robbng citizens who pay for this obscene charade by ever increasing taxes. THEY show more integrity than you know or realize.

7 January 2013 at 23:53  
Blogger Gnostic said...

What iDave is, in my opinion, rhymes with "hunt". You can add "insufferable" as a prefix.

8 January 2013 at 07:30  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Non Mouse

"Analaysis of responses to the previous topic will reveal that the same few respondents post on that topic habitually and ad nauseam. Indeed, they turn every strand toward that discussion, wherever possible. They appear to be as obsessed with it as the play president of the erstwhile UK. " Well said that Mouse...I can't stands it there na more either.
Happy New Year to you, my fine Lass and to Bluedog and Mr Cad also.


8 January 2013 at 12:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9 January 2013 at 18:17  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

A political party will come to despise a constituency that has "nowhere else to go." At some point it becomes better to let a party suffer inevitable defeat instead of supporting that party when it rewards your vote with contempt.


10 January 2013 at 05:02  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10 January 2013 at 20:51  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you, Mr. B @ 8 January 2013 12:28!

May 2013 prove the best of years also for you and yours!

13 January 2013 at 05:41  

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