Thursday, February 14, 2013

Food Bank bureaucracy and Christian charity


From Brother Ivo:

Nobody who is familiar with the Gospels can fail to be struck by a very Jewish preoccupation with food. From the first miracle at Cana, through the feeding of the 5000, to the Last Supper and the post-resurrection fish barbecue by the side of Lake Galilee, there is a plain link between food, family, community and God's love. Food matters to God.

Even when handing Peter his wider commission, Jesus uses the metaphor of food, instructing him to ‘feed my sheep’. He does not issue to Peter a direct set of detailed instructions; he does not tell Peter to ‘care for them’, ‘protect’, ‘teach’ or ‘keep them in order’. The chosen model is that of feeding. The blend of practicality, necessity, pastoral concern, sharing and love is all embodied in the duty which would not normally fall to an institutional leader. Peter is to be like a Jewish mother, a slave or the lowliest shepherd, all at the bottom of the social hierarchy: he must first and foremost ‘feed’ them.

The Church has always spread in the context of food. When the 70 are sent out to evangelise the world, they are sent with next to nothing by way of missionary resources, and no provisions. Jesus gives them no alternative but to place them in a position where they are utterly dependent on the hospitality of strangers. It may not be stretching interpretation too far to see in this an echo of the conclusion of the story of the road to Emmaus, where Jesus makes himself known in the breaking of the bread.

Mediaeval monasteries were places where travellers could receive this ministry of food sharing, and the relief of poverty was one of the key illustrations when Elizabeth I passed the inaugural statute defining charity in 1601.

Our pastoral duties continue. There are several major charities, consciously religious or not, which deal with the relief of hunger in the developing world. No Christian can ignore his or her duty to ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’ with regular charitable giving for the meeting of the needs of the needy neighbour.

Food provision has always had political dimension. There are international discussions on conserving the world’s fish stocks as industrial fishing reaches corners of the earth of which Galilean fishermen knew nothing. Closer to home, criminal fraud now exists in the food chain and the cry goes up of ‘Do something!’.

Yet amidst the plenty of the well-stuffed supermarkets, Britain has a growing number of Food Banks.

At one level this is extraordinary: the quantity, quality and safety of food have rarely been surpassed, especially for the ordinary person. Brother Ivo's great grandmother struggled to feed 12 children on a baker’s wage and though she was reputed to be a lady of charity, giving when she could to the Salvation Army, her credulity might have been stretched to hear the modern discourse about Food Banks.

In some quarters we hear that this is the return of poverty to the land. The bald statistics of Food Bank creation are recited in the House of Commons as evidence of economic mismanagement. When this argument is deployed, one rarely hears it linked to Government policy on inflation which tends to dis-incentivise the poor of any inclination to save a little for a rainy day.

In other quarters there is a stern lack of sympathy. Food Bank supplicants (Brother Ivo shies from the ubiquitous ‘client’) are there by a wide range of circumstance, and Jesus’ heart was always open to those in need howsoever they got there. Some, nevertheless, react as if the Food Bank is another free hand-out to the undeserving, encouraging profligacy.

Yet the rules of the Trussell Trust, which is the impetus behind most of the growing number of these voluntary initiatives, are quite specific. The food offered is generally sufficient for three days; ordinarily only three visits a year are allowed. Anyone seeking assistance arrives via an approved voucher-issuer, which may be a doctor’s surgery, a Social Services department, or another charity.

Far from being an open-ended encouragement to the profligate, the system is deliberately designed to be of a short-term limited character, and if there is a problem in the system, it is that those wishing to issue vouchers also take on a responsibility for enquiring into circumstances, keeping records and ‘signposting’ individuals to other agencies, whether that be a benefits agency, a debt counselling service or women's aid hostel.

It is the accompanying responsibility that presents a problem and causes the occasional bottleneck. Such a control mechanism may be necessary to prevent the abuse of charitable giving, but many Churches – which constitute the principle source of volunteers and food donations – are simply not geared for dispensing that kind of advice and the paperwork that goes with it. Finding your way to an approved voucher-issuer is not always very easy.

In some areas the congregations give, the volunteers wait, but those in need don't arrive. The vicar’s private store cupboard is returning as a necessary precursor to the bureaucratic delays of those issuing the vouchers for the Food Bank, which itself exists because official channels cannot always move quickly enough to feed the needy under statutory schemes. If the issuers of vouchers do not issue enough, the food in the store cupboards can slip out of date.

Whenever we hear of Food Banks in Parliament they are presented by the Opposition as if they are symptomatic of famine in the land. The greater reality is that they are symptomatic of things altogether different.

If Brother Ivo's great grandmother were to have seen this problem in the midst of riches beyond her dreams she might have asked: ‘Where are the families?’; ‘Where are the neighbours?’; ‘Where are the Friendly Societies?’ – in fact, all the things that existed in the pre-bureaucratic state.

Above all, the Food Banks are needed because the state cannot do everything, and the further the administration of the solution is removed from the people and their problems, the less efficient it can be.

There is a further problem looming. A recent poll in Bulgaria showed that 54 per cent of respondents would like to exchange their lives of penury there for life in one of Europe’s richer countries. The UK is attractive with its culture of acceptance and welcoming the stranger.

Will the Government open the Welfare State to meet such an influx? It seems unlikely, not least because it would be politically unpalatable and economically unaffordable. If the Welfare State is closed to those exercising newly-acquired rights, does anyone believe that private charity such as the Food Bank movement could stand the strain of open borders?

Brother Ivo is confident that those of Christian conscience will be moved by need wherever it comes from. The Trussel Trust is not restrictive in its mission statement, adopting Jesus’ teaching found in the Gospel of Matthew (25:35): ‘I was hungry and you gave me something to eat.’ How good that we remember and respond.

(Posted by Brother Ivo)

63 Comments:

Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

" Will the Government open the Welfare State to meet such an influx? It seems unlikely, not least because it would be politically unpalatable and economically unaffordable. If the Welfare State is closed to those exercising newly-acquired rights, does anyone believe that private charity such as the Food Bank movement could stand the strain of open borders?"

Dear Brother Ivo

We can do nothing about it, it's EU law that we cannot breach, as we will find out once the influx arrives and any government that tries to hinder or restrict welfare to EU Citizens will be given short thrift by the EU constabulary.

Caveats that should have been included were not by that loveable 'straight talking kinda guy' Blair, on signing the UK up to this rubbish.

We are well and truly shafted as we shall discover shortly despite all parliament's bluster!

Brother Blofeld ;-)

14 February 2013 at 10:19  
Blogger Kinderling said...

The early Jews may have been preoccupied with food, but Jesus was preoccupied with mana from heaven, for that is the food that determines the quality of meat set before you on your couch before the telly.

Rarely do you see the righteous begging. And so if fed from the limp wrist of a Christian like receiving welfare for nothing in return, the corruption of recipients to think welfare is their god given right ensues.

Bring back the soup kitchen and let them meet each other to work out a way out of their demise.

Armchair healers.

14 February 2013 at 10:25  
Blogger Corrigan said...

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, Ivo. Are you saying the way we live now leaves no room for families, neighbours and friendly societies? If so, I'm right with you.

14 February 2013 at 11:08  
Blogger Nick said...

The fact that some people have made a mess of their lives is not a reason to refuse to help them. Christ spent much of his time with "messed up folk" because they both needed help and were probably likely to benefit from it.

God calls on us to be generous to those in need without judgement.

That said, openeing upour borders will cause problems. But it is not our decision anymore because our weakened, spineless nation has become a vassel of the EU. Time to switch to UKIP.

14 February 2013 at 12:37  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Brother Ivo,

The problem is not lack of food- have you not read about the European Union's socialist policies on fisheries, food and wine; bread mountains, wine lakes and other such stuff ?

And of course if people cannot afford to buy the essentials of life- food being one of them, where else do they turn to,?

Is there not a huge corruption in the welfare system which allows people who do not and never have worked to claim umpteen benefits, so there is no point in them earning a real wage, but goes against those who pay into the system, but which means they have £71 a week to live off and only get, say the benefit from the labour exchange for 6 months?

And are not food banks and soup kitchens the patronising resort of those who are better off, but as in the story of widows mite do not give more, yet beat their chests about how much they give?

Perhaps the better charitable act is to be understanding and not to patronise people who are struggling. People we know, for example. Perhaps inviting them round for a hearty meal and providing them with company is a better way to do this, than restrict the people into 3 days a week of baked beans or to separate the sheep from the goats, so to speak.

As for this government, well it is clearly telling us all to 'get with the programme', because it is full of multi-millionaires who wouldn't know 'poverty' if it came and bit them on the bum and I doubt if they have ever tried to live off £71 a week.

But don't worry, when Osbourne is busy raiding the Parish poor box, Cameron will be saying 'let them eat (gay wedding) cake', from the millions of now liberated people, who couldn't previously get married. And there might even be a women Bishop to do the blessing.

You see I am 'getting with' the programme...

14 February 2013 at 12:39  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Ah! The EU’s idea of the ‘free movement of labour’ – better known as the Marxian concept of the ‘export of surplus labour’.

Normally the movement of labour from disadvantaged regions to regions with more job opportunities usually works in federated states (for example, the USA).

However, it does not work correctly in the EU as there is not a huge range of job opportunities in states like the UK (where unemployment remains relatively high).

So what then attracts surplus labour to Britain? Accommodation, health, welfare and free housing benefits.

The argument is often advanced that Britain’s ‘surplus labour’ can access all these benefits in the rest of the EU when it migrates to EU states – theoretically yes; but, de facto no.
That’s because British ‘surplus labour’, in contrast with its continental labour, has not mastered the languages of neighbouring countries; therefore, British ‘surplus’ labour migrates to the English speaking labour markets.

Britain in the EU is a loser all round.

14 February 2013 at 13:54  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Don’t waste your time worrying over our pampered poor Ivo. So they have their daytime television interrupted while they go looking for more handouts - what of it ?

You give the poor unlimited financial assistance with no conditions attached, such as having to sort themselves out and find work, and you end up with an army of life wasters, totally dependant on the system, and who have the gall to DEMAND their ‘rights’ or to put it more accurately, a large cut of what working people earn. The Inspector, for example.

They could always give work a try. You know, that which is done by immigrants who come here…





14 February 2013 at 18:18  
Blogger Brother Ivo said...

Brother Corrigan,

Sometimes we need to get away from excitable issues and think seriously about other things.

It is especially important for those of us who are both Anglican and conservative to think carefully about the poor for whom Jesus had a special concern.

As you can see, Food Banks are not and cannot be an alternative to national provision. They contribute in a specific way to a specific problem, yet they do not and cannot be an alternative to Christian compassion or family/ neighbourly concerns.

The Bulgarian dimension is problematic as it is hard to see how any of these can meet the challenge of open door immigration.

14 February 2013 at 18:45  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

"No Christian can ignore his or her duty to ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’ with regular charitable giving for the meeting of the needs of the needy neighbour.

Well said, Ivo.

We do all have a duty towards those in real need during a crisis in their lives. And what better way than offering a helping hand without taking dignity away or creating dependency?

Food for three days and clothing for those in need. There's a biblical theme in there somewhere.

Inspector
But I understood you fund the beer drinking habits of a vagrant.

14 February 2013 at 18:54  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

14 February 2013 at 18:54  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Haven’t seen him for a few weeks. Suspect the cold carried him off...

14 February 2013 at 19:34  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Where are 4 million Bulgarians going to live. We have Poles in this town living rough. And a few making their way to Sharpness for sea passage out of this country. One knows this as he has been asked directions by them. Not many people are aware that Gloucestershire has an ocean going port...

14 February 2013 at 19:44  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Ivo,

I quite agree that food banks cannot be a substitute for family, community and neighbours; unfortunately, after 35 years of relentless neo-liberalism, you're not going to get in contact with any of these things without a ouija board. They are the enemies of "free trade" and "free trade" has killed them.

It is ironic, is it not, that the traditional values were destroyed by the Conservative Party of Maggie Thatcher in an effort to reignite conservative principle, and then cremated and their ashes scattered by a Labour Party whose membership had no greater purpose than to prove to "The Markets" that they could be trusted with the levers of state authority, ie, that they would use them only in the service of "The Markets".

The result is a society made up on one side of beggers-on-horseback, like the Inspector, who appear to think anybody with a shilling less than them is a peasant, and on the other, what are essentially slave labourers, out of work people who, according to the rules of "workfare" can be moved about like Russian serfs by the authorities as the needs of business requires them, put on-call to their "employers" up to 12 hours a day, be expected to work up to 30 hours a week - all on the taxpayers tab, I might add, since they're doing all of this just to qualify for welfare - and then be expected to find time to go out looking for actual jobs.

If ever there was a society which needed a serious injection of Christianity, it's Britain. No wonder the Scots want out.

14 February 2013 at 21:23  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Inspector
You could always replace your regular donations to that chappie now he's moved on with a few anonymous postal order slipped through the doors of needy neighbours.

14 February 2013 at 21:45  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

And so it goes on.

14 February 2013 at 22:13  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Men, do you REALLY want to know the biggest cause of poverty in this country ? It’s the single mother who went out of her way to be impregnated on a ‘go it alone’ basis. And you want this man to feel sympathetic for them ?

Well bloody well tough. They made their bed and they can suffer for it. The Inspector is having NOTHING to do with ‘rescuing’ these people. What they did was bad, it was wrong and above all else it was not in keeping with Christianity. And please, no guilt trips...


14 February 2013 at 22:19  
Blogger bluedog said...

But Mr Inspector @ 22.19, what of the woman with children who becomes a single mother because her husband abandons her? Is she bad and unChristian for failing to keep her marriage together?

It happens a lot, you know, and increasingly since the Left has devalued marriage.

Not every single mother is a slut who can't say no.

Of course, to use a Cameronesque argument, when a same sex marriage fails there are less likely to be single parents as a consequence. Society is the winner.

Just think cynical and Dave is easy to understand.

14 February 2013 at 22:56  
Blogger Kinderling said...

The Church once had the Deserving Poor and the Undeserving Poor.

Who to decide?

The Bank Manager who's paying ought to know, to get up from fiddling the Libor and go and find out before we get into Trillions of dollars in debt!

Oooowe......

14 February 2013 at 23:05  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Bluedog you mischievous hound. One is sympathetic to abandoned mothers. After all, a women ‘in love’ is not firing on all four cylinders and frequently pairs up with a thug because of her ‘intuition’ God help us, but the post still stands..


14 February 2013 at 23:24  
Blogger len said...

One of the biggest causes of poverty in this Country is the banking Industry(if you could call it that),another is the' money pit'called the EU, yet another is the Politicians who hand out aid to Countries that don`t need aid whilst we have people on the brink of starvation in this Country.(I am not against giving aid but we should at least TRY to make sure that it goes to those who need it!)
To accuse those single parents)particularly women)of being 'the cause of the problems within our Society is quite frankly idiotic.

God calls Christians to look after orphans and widows and it will hardly look good for Christians to be outdone by the secular World on these issues!.

15 February 2013 at 00:05  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

Kinderling said...

"The Church once had the Deserving Poor and the Undeserving Poor.

The Church has never made such a distinction. This is a Victorian attitude towards poverty, not a Christian one.

The "deserving poor" were those who were poor through no fault of their own, through illness, accident or age, or because there was no work available for them (a factory closure for example). The "undeserving poor" were those who were poor because of laziness or personal problems like drunkenness.

Victorians were very concerned with how they could help the deserving poor without encouraging laziness in the "undeserving poor".

Times don't change much, eh?

The Christian and the Church looks at the issue somewhat differently

15 February 2013 at 00:37  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

len, well said!

You exhibit more of a Christian heart than our brother Inspector.

God calls us to look after our neighbour. And who is my neighbour?

15 February 2013 at 00:50  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

I disagree with you to some extent Inspector @ 22:19 You can't blame all women for all the ails of the world you know. One is beginning to think of you as a bit of a misogynist at times.

15 February 2013 at 01:16  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

Marie said ...
"You can't blame all women for all the ails of the world you know."

True - I blame the influence of just one.

15 February 2013 at 01:35  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Dodo well yes Eve has a lot to answer for.

15 February 2013 at 01:51  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

The inspector reminds me so much of Uncle Tio in Fellini's Amacorde

Uncle Tio I want a woman - You tube

15 February 2013 at 05:16  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Not Quite The Way You've Heard The Adam and Eve Story - You Tube

Dodo, stop blaming the failures and shortcomings of men on Eve. It was Adam's fault. Women need a good reason to take up with devil boys!

15 February 2013 at 05:47  
Blogger Corrigan said...

I thought women swooned for devil boys...

15 February 2013 at 09:03  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector has the greatest admiration for women, but they are frequently their own worst enemy. A particular striking fault is pairing up with men who strike them. The ‘devil boy’ is a recognised phenomenon. Of course, the ladies know they can manage the blighter and unconsciously desire his survivalist DNA in any offspring that may occur, as well as his keeping of undesirable men away from her. And hang the consequences, even if you risk being shot four times in your man’s home. The ‘rewards’ are there, and they are worth it apparently, whatever they are…

Reflecting on yesterday’s posts, and having seen the feckless poor at first hand, it does appear that these people lack discipline in their lives. The problem of course is if they weren’t introduced to it at home, they wouldn’t find much of it during their education either. Once again, the liberals are at the root of it all…

15 February 2013 at 17:38  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

Cressida

The French have an expression: "Love enters man through the eyes; women through the ears.

Need any more be said?

15 February 2013 at 21:27  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Dodo

Hauptmann?

carl

16 February 2013 at 00:20  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

Captain,

16 February 2013 at 00:27  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Dodo

Yes, I am familiar with that part. I would have thought you would pick 'Squadron Leader' or something. A dodo is a flying bird. The RAF and all. But a German rank is ... oh, I see. It's a Swiss military rank, and you have declared yourself a Captain in that Swiss Guard thing.

I get it.

carl

16 February 2013 at 01:41  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Reading Facebook recently someone wrote this: “If you cross the North Korean boarder illegally you get 12 years hard labour. If you cross the Afghan border illegally you get shot. Two Americans got eight years for crossing the Iranian border. If you cross the UK border illegally you get a job, a drivers licence, food stamps, a place to live, health care, housing and child benefits, education and a tax free business for seven years. No wonder we are a country in debt. What a joke. “

It's true.
If we didn't have to pay all this money out we might not be needing so many food banks for our own people who are a lot of the time too proud to ask for charity. Talk about taking from one to give to the other, redistributing of wealth is carried out by simply redistributing the poor people to rich countries. The EU is the biggest communist state in the making and we must leave.

16 February 2013 at 03:02  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

That piece of fallacious, hate-generating, potentially racist, piece of garbage has been circulating around for ages, often referring to different countries as it replicates.

But perhaps we ought to change our culture, values, and sense of justice to be more similar to that of North Korea, Afghanistan, or Iran anyway? That'd be nice.

16 February 2013 at 07:36  
Blogger len said...

The Dodo became a' dead dodo'(much like Monty Pythons parrot) because it walked where other birds dared not walk.

Brave or foolish?.

16 February 2013 at 08:06  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Oh, the mundanity of it all.... Christians aren't allowed to discern the deserving and undeserving poor...

"Feed my sheep..."

Ok, Ok.

You rarely see the righteous begging, but are hidden by the majority who have no dignity to find work, no dignity in copulation by lying to the one they lie down with, no dignity in giving because they then ask God to give them something in return.

A mess of vanity and egos.

Humbleness will bring them to their senses, to reform their characters, to value others.

There is a physical baseline for charity, of simple food and shelter, but there also needs to be an opportunity to pay back in return.

I left home as a young teenager to escape its tyranny, and knocking on a door of a farm they offered me food and lodgings in return for my labour. They could not pay me. I worked hard and blessed that place. I walked the extra mile and have done so ever since.

Those righteous who are hit hard by times no fault of their own, then a loan or a gift will do it. We've all done that.

I'm in my eighth month of paying the rent and food for an illegal immigrant because her Church won't help her and she has no recourse to public funds. Where's the soup kitchen and shelter she could go and become a volunteer to help?

As her Named Sponsor the Most UnHome Office are now able to slowly process their docummentation and take on the merits of the child she brought over, the one I seek to protect.

I cannot fault her actions, low education, low IQ, poverty in her own country, communist Nulabour encouraged this type of freeloading, while White Christians could not discern undeserving deserving poor... But I can tell you, unlike those thousands of 'students' who overstayed or married to obtained British passports and then got preferential jobs in local governments, she has more dignity in her little finger. While they leave their children to return with no one at home and whore it up as single mothers or studs living in Housing Association properties, this person had worked cash-in-hand at nights to be with her kid during the day. But I'm not allowed to let her to work for me to earn the charity money I give her. I'm not allowed to give her her dignity to learn a skill and to walk the extra mile.

If she had screwed up her child, having a ball with her ethnics, I would have told her not to darken my door. She came seeking help, I listened, rebuked her for pissing on my country, and I'm now her bank manager working a way out to gain her independence.

If you can't discern, you're going to ruin and extinction. This Goverment class is a classic example of such human beings without souls. Where there is no justice in laws or regulations the people will perish.

16 February 2013 at 10:00  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Jesus "If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." Luke 6: 29-30

That's exactly how you're going to be made to live in a Perfect Communist State, "to each according to his need", living in kennels while Champagne Socialists take what they can, because you believe that.

However, Jesus was only talking about resentment. "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you" came just after he said Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Someone is going to massage your sense of Goodness in return for your, shall we say, your co-operation; and they're also going to try and intimidate you if you don't.

Chuggers are past-masters.

"If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them."

Then they can't grasp onto anything. Your pride, your guilt your indentity, your shame... they try to steal from you anything you think worth keeping and precious to compromise yourself in return for.

Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

They can't reel you in. They can't upset you to into emotional overload or surrender. You're utterly unfazed.

"Do not resist evil.

If you do, it will become a bridge for them to get into you. You have not part of it. Period.

If frustrated, they want to fight for your submission; you kick their butt into Kingdom Two from their Kingdom One, but you do it only with malice on their part.

Don't give them any validation, for their first works is to say clarity comes from living in fear, then have the Stazi on the streets to uphold it, and then propagate a lifetime of utopias and distractions.

Whatever they ask for let them have, for you are not one of them who need it. The Racist/Sexist/Genderist needs you to join their party for their validation. You have nothing. That's the mindstate to be in.

So when a beautiful person comes confessing their downfall, you lift them up back onto their feet. That's what you're supposed to do.

White Ribbons are just of sanctimoneous badges of Do-Gooding when it is doing the work of evil passing into every soul.

16 February 2013 at 12:56  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

carl said ...

" ... oh, I see. It's a Swiss military rank, and you have declared yourself a Captain in that Swiss Guard thing."

Well, the cell was covert, charged with operating behind the line, but we have been exposed. It's that or I am playing alongwith with a game started by others.

You decide.

16 February 2013 at 18:38  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

len said...

"The Dodo became a' dead dodo' (much like Monty Pythons parrot) because it walked where other birds dared not walk.

Er, no. The Dodo bird ran into problems because of rats brought by protestant explorers. They introduced these strange creatures to an otherwise balanced system. (Not the first time, either.) Most uncouth fellows they were too.

16 February 2013 at 18:44  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

So you're happy that we have open doors to hundreds of thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian peasant beggars and Bit Issue sellers? What's a chugger or two when that lot arrive God help us.

Our standards are sinking like a stone it will be a joy to be like North Korea before long! And if we have to worship the leaders and starve at least the obesity and the binge drinking problems will be solved eh Danj0.

16 February 2013 at 20:26  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Watch it Marie. DanJ0 is now the Archbishop's adopted son, prodigy and heir apparent. Mock him and you mock them both, don’t you know.

Posts passim, dear thing...

16 February 2013 at 20:36  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Marie. The Inspector made a brief appearance (....pint and half of Guinness and bag of cashew nuts...) in the Mouse and Wheel today, as a fellow is wont to do. Gloucester Gaol closed this week, after 222 years of dealing in penal servitude and up until 1960, the odd hanging. The clientele informed your man that the prison, which in it’s final years specialised in remand / short sentence , was reputed to be almost 50% populated by foreign nationals !

Can honestly see it being re-opened next year, what !

Board and lodging for these gypsy types, no less...


16 February 2013 at 20:49  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Inspector
Yes, and a lot more prisons will have to open too.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/r-of-rapes-in-rome-committed-by-immigrants-y-in-milan-in-italy/

Second after Moroccan mulsims are Romanians for rape crimes.
Since 07 Italy have been turfing the Romanian criminals out so no prizes for guessing where they are heading next! I wouldn't let them near our Royal Mail. They have corrupted their own post
into near oblivion.

16 February 2013 at 23:52  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

BTW Inspector have you been watching Minder? :)

17 February 2013 at 00:09  
Blogger Olive Jones said...

@Kinderling,

However, Jesus was only talking about resentment.

[...]

“If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.”

Then they can’t grasp onto anything. Your pride, your guilt your indentity, your shame ... they try to steal from you anything you think worth keeping and precious to compromise yourself in return for.

"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."

They can’t reel you in. They can’t upset you to into emotional overload or surrender. You’re utterly unfazed.

[...]

Whatever they ask for let them have, for you are not one of them who need it. The Racist/Sexist/Genderist needs you to join their party for their validation. You have nothing. That’s the mindstate to be in.


I never looked at these verses as being in the psychological realm, but it makes perfect sense. I always felt that I did not want to "turn the other cheek" so to speak. I did not want to offer myself up to be physically hit or hurt again, thinking this ludicrous, but I was reading this verse literally, and of course it makes more sense figuratively (psychologically)! So the coat and the shirt are not literal, either.

I'll never forget the sign in the window of one nearby market that stated: "We proudly accept food stamps." (Proudly, of course, for his merchandise is over-priced ... he is no fool). Proudly. Just like some food banks here are set up like grocery stores, so that the person can "shop" as if in a grocery store, like a "normal" person. Proudly and not ashamed. Proudly given. Proudly received. No one guilty, as they throw my money down an endless black hole to be used as they see fit. It's pathetic that neither giver nor receiver really has enough "pride" ... or brains.

17 February 2013 at 05:00  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Marie: "So you're happy that we have open doors to hundreds of thousands of Romanian and Bulgarian peasant beggars and Bit Issue sellers? What's a chugger or two when that lot arrive God help us."

Non sequitur.

17 February 2013 at 06:50  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Marie

You left out Count Dracula and his vampires, in your little list, lol.

17 February 2013 at 09:55  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

If Count Dracula has a valid Romanian passport then he can enter the UK quite legally as an EU citizen without a visa and stay for upto 90 days. They need not fear getting shot, or imprisoned for 8 years, or have to do 12 years hard labour when they get off the ferry or plane because they're not entering the country illegally.

17 February 2013 at 10:13  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Olive,

Jesus lived among those in delusion. How else could he free them, but of the mind?

To be one with their god and love their unliked neighbor as themselves.

Must have made them want to kill him, eh?

17 February 2013 at 10:58  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Danjo,

Well as the daughter of an immigrant mother, from Iraq, I really have no time for Marie's rantings, especially as a few threads ago she was attacking a key principal part of my own religion.

And you've got to admit that trying to prevent Count Dracula from entering the country, would probably be a typical 'daily mail' campaign though?

'British blood, for British Vampyres' ...lol. And who would they turn to if the good Count went on a rampage ? Why the very Dutch (or is it German?), Van Helsing of course...

17 February 2013 at 11:20  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Well, those Facebook thingies, which are usually full of factual inaccuracies designed to turn people against all immigrants, get right on my norgs. They almost always blur over the significant differences between illegal immigants, asylum seekers, acknowledged refugees, and economic migrants. Deliberately too, I think, to draw in people too ignorant or prejudiced to check these things for themselves.

Not being willing to turn away refugees or accept economic migrants where required does not necessarily mean I want open borders. In fact, I've actually come around to the opinion that the UK needs to get direct control of its own borders back again. I just want it to be done on the basis of fact rather than fiction, and in particular malicious fiction.

17 February 2013 at 12:17  
Blogger Kinderling said...

Olive,

So if someone abuses you for not believing as a Christian-of-their-kind, or believing in a Homoerticism-of-their-kind, let them have what they want to take, give them your jacket and your shirt, give it all; it is theirs and do not ask for it back, for you have nothing, no part of it, while they ride off with everything to comfort them until their next rage surfaces realizing their possessions have to be worshipped to gain any value to justify losing themselves into.

17 February 2013 at 12:27  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Hannah,

'Van Helsing' is a cracking movie. I think Kate Beckinsdale was in that film?

17 February 2013 at 14:15  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Danjo,

I'm not sure if your latter posts were aimed at me or Marie, I presume Marie as she was the one who came up with all the stuff about Romanians etc. Anyway, you didn't quite leap on the subtle nature of what I was suggesting.

I suspect that Count Dracula, if he were a Romanian citizen, would be welcomed with open arms in the UK as a non-dom... lol.

17 February 2013 at 15:19  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi David,

'Van Helsing', lol. I'm wondering if Dodo is really a member of 'the Knights of the Holy Order', under Cardinal Jinette?

17 February 2013 at 15:20  
Blogger Hauptmann Dodo said...

Hahbnnah

Please, that Order does not exist as pointed out by the Cardinal. Do pay attention. !

17 February 2013 at 21:02  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

“Well, those Facebook thingies, which are usually full of factual inaccuracies designed to turn people against all immigrants, get right on my norgs. They almost always blur over the significant differences between illegal immigants, asylum seekers, acknowledged refugees, and economic migrants. Deliberately too, I think, to draw in people too ignorant or prejudiced to check these things for themselves.”

Yes Danj0 those Facebook round robins are usually a bit of fun or an exaggeration, but in this case I feel it has more accuracy than not.
Like all hungry people those from Bulgaria and Romania will do anything to survive. A lot of them are into scrap metal dealing to China. They have corrupted their postal service, and on the whole they don't respect and treat women as we do. There are over 1 million working and living in Italy now, 130,000 women in the North living and working having left their children at home in Romania with relatives or on their own.
Do we really want yet another set of cultural problems and complications on top of what we already have? It would be kinder to let them continue to go to Italy and Spain where the languages are easier to learn and are similar.

We can't afford to feed anymore immigrants. I guess you are fine then with the new Lib Dim idea of the jewellery tax Danj0 on all your inheritance from your adopted father the Archbishop to pay for these poor immigrants? It's not as though you will be having any children yourself so you may as well give it all away.




17 February 2013 at 22:59  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Marie,

I would have thought you'd have liked Romanians, because they are Orthodox Christian? Or do you just dislike 'the foreigner' in general?

Should I break the news to you now than in your religion G-d wasn't English but Jewish? That Jesus (a translation of Hebrew to Greek to English, btw) would have been called something like "Yeshua ben Yosef"?

Just askin'

17 February 2013 at 23:13  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

David
Not all Eastern Orthodox according to this site.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ro.html
You will be happy no doubt to embrace the arrival of more muslims coming here, the majority religion in Bulgaria.

I don't dislike foreigners, there are good and bad everywhere. What I object to is the forced immigration on us by the EU and the uncontrolled immigration we have had under New Liebour when our country was already struggling to cope. It's simply insane.

18 February 2013 at 00:29  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

Ah Marie,

I thought we were talking about Romania, rather than Bulgaria. But I did google Bulgarian religion and noted that 76% of the population was Orthodox Christian .And Romania - 86% of people said they were Orthodox Christian.

Please don't let facts get in the way of your polemics though.

References :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Romania

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Bulgaria

18 February 2013 at 00:38  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Marie: Yes Danj0 those Facebook round robins are usually a bit of fun or an exaggeration, but in this case I feel it has more accuracy than not."

I don't see the fun in them at all as they are intended to stir up resentment and cause trouble for immigrants. If you "feel" that one has more accuracy than not then perhaps you can take each of its claims and justify it here?

18 February 2013 at 05:36  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Marie:"I guess you are fine then with the new Lib Dim idea of the jewellery tax Danj0 on all your inheritance from your adopted father the Archbishop to pay for these poor immigrants? It's not as though you will be having any children yourself so you may as well give it all away."

Non sequitur.

18 February 2013 at 05:39  

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