Wednesday, May 22, 2013

Baghdad barbarism comes to the streets of London

It is not at all clear what is of 'Muslim appearance' about this man, as was widely reported as this appalling story was breaking. It is certainly not at all typical of an Al-Qaeda operative to apologise to the ladies when they are forced to witness a machete hacking away at a severed head.

What we do know is that the murderers were two black men, and that they were heard shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' as they sliced into the victim like he was ‘a piece of meat’. An eye-witness told Iain Dale on LBC Radio: "They were hacking at this poor guy, literally. They were chopping him, cutting him. These two guys were crazed. They were just animals."

Our thoughts and prayers are with the victim's family. This is utterly deplorable and totally unjustifiable, unless you happen to follow quite literally the historic example of Mohammed, who butchered and beheaded his enemies while invoking the name of Allah.

Atrocities committed in the name of religion are actually committed by man. God condemns murder. Those who spout a doctrine of God which condones it are worshipping a false god or heeding the words of a false prophet. Blessed are the peacemakers.


Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

One’s thoughts go out to the innocents man’s family. Killed because he did not appear Islamic, as happens to so many throughout the world...

22 May 2013 at 19:44  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

Hasn't the time come for a vigorous and robust response to the followers of the religion of war?

22 May 2013 at 19:46  
Blogger Emlyn Uwch Cych said...

I suggest Your Grace might mean "Mogadishu Barbarism", but the point is well made.

Not all Somalis are savages, God bless them, but we really need to weed out the few homicidal bastards we have brought over here.

Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" may well have been only too prophetic

22 May 2013 at 19:48  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Islamists have wanted to kill a British soldier for a long time and now it looks like they have succeeded. This obscene behaviour is endemic in Islam and in evidence everywhere it is allowed to take root. It is the nature of the Islamic beast to conquer through fear and repression and violence - why anyone should want to deflect from this truth with platitudes of religious political correctness is beyond me.

22 May 2013 at 19:50  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Oh God, this is horrible.

22 May 2013 at 19:59  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

The authorities will be hard at work agreeing the spin. Religion of peace… no racial element… unrepresentative of Islam… Muslims treasured citizens… English institutionally racist...

22 May 2013 at 20:05  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

The Inspector will not proffer his usual criticism of alien immigration, but will say this. The poor fellow didn’t even have to look Islamic. Just being the wrong Islamic would have been enough to ensure his death.

No doubt, if this goes to trial, though with such a clear case here, why bother, our honoured legal profession will no doubt try to get them off on diminished responsibility. Perhaps they have a defence as it is Islam that’s involved. But consider this. If the death penalty was still in place, would the victim now be enjoying a few beers after his day. A liberal attitude towards murder will always cost lives. But liberals will never admit to it...

22 May 2013 at 20:12  
Blogger Naomi King said...

They were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them. Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions. Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance. And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them. Their enemies also oppressed them, and they were brought into subjection under their hand.

22 May 2013 at 20:23  
Blogger LEN said...

The 'religion of peace' unmasked.

The victim of this murderous couple could have just been wearing the 'wrong tee shirt'.

Time our Government woke up to the potential/very real threat of Islam and where these muslims are being radicalised?.

22 May 2013 at 20:27  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


" A liberal attitude towards murder will always cost lives. But liberals will never admit to it..."

Murder rates in HK soared after the death penalty was abolished.

Just like EU, immigration, gay marriage, wind farms etc. The politicians are not interested in what the majority want them to do.

They can ignore the majority time and time again because ??????


22 May 2013 at 20:34  
Blogger Sister Tiberia said...

Simply appalling. All thoughts and prayers with the family of the victim.

22 May 2013 at 20:45  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Truly shocking. But we should react not just with revulsion but with firm resolve to defeat evil.

22 May 2013 at 20:45  
Blogger Albert said...

This is so shocking. It's apparently not enough to do this, he then feels he is entitled to "justify" it to a camera. By what crazed standard can this be justified?

22 May 2013 at 21:23  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, this atrocity may mark a tipping point.

The British people have been poorly lead for two generations; cities over-run by aliens, sovereignty surrendered to unelected Eurocrats, society re-ordered and marriage redefined to appease 1.5% of the population, and now, pure barbarism. The old saw about LibLabCon is sadly true, there is no difference between them and as long as they rule there will be no difference in policy. Indeed, LibLabCon will never admit to their manifold failures, so this traitorous troika cannot be the solution to the problems engulfing Britain.

They say a new broom sweeps clean.

May it do so.

22 May 2013 at 21:39  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Albert (21:23)—By the crazed standard of Islam:

[8:12] Allah revealed His will to the angels, saying: ‘I shall be with you. Give courage to the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb!’

22 May 2013 at 21:43  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

I shan't watch the video.

I know not all muslims are barbarians, but pretty much all barbarians are muslim.

22 May 2013 at 22:04  
Blogger Jack Sprat said...

Be very careful YG. Anyone who criticizes Islam is immediately labelled a fascist by the Guardian, Times, Independent, BBC, ITV and the lefties who run parliament.
Without a doubt these guys were getting a minority culture grant from their local council, and funding from the EU.
There's a group called Hope not Hate that is campaigning vigorously against the rise of such dangerous forces as ....UKIP. Their posters mention immigration so that's terrifying isn't it?

22 May 2013 at 22:07  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

When you mix negro with Islam, this is what you get. It’s an IQ thing, you know. It appears the killer is a Nigerian. Let us not forget the activities of Boko Haram in that country which are just as bad but do not attract the attention of the media all the time. It’s a probable soldier here this time. Over there, it’s Christians.

22 May 2013 at 22:21  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Thank you Johnny very helpful - says it all really, ' I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb!’

That pretty much covers it, so why did no one on the BBC quote this sutra this evening then ?

22 May 2013 at 22:24  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Amen to that Inspector. A dear friend of mind has been out in northern Nigeria this past month and a whole village of Christians was totally wiped out by Boko Harm while he was there, 157 people killed. And yet Nigeria is coming under a huge Christian revival over 52 % of the population are Believers in the LORD Jesus Christ and the churches are FULL. There are churches on every street corner.

This hate inspired murder of this young army cadet has nothing to do with IQ, every Nigerian I know has at least a Masters degree and most have two, it is all about the worship of the false god (ie demon) of Mohammed referred to as allah. This is the demon of hate, vengeance, and mass murder known as Islam which these people are enslaved to. Remember it is not flesh and blood that we wrestle with but the powers and principalities and rules of the darkness of this world.

22 May 2013 at 22:32  
Blogger Ivan said...

The sad thing is that like the Rochdale grooming case, all this could have been avoided if the UK had kept the Islamic scum out. The politicians have failed in the primary duty of safeguarding the lives of the citizens. The media spinners will of course continue playing their worn out records, but no one cares.

22 May 2013 at 22:46  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Despite the bad news, who’s up for a celebration of multiculturism then. Remember, the cultural Marxists are all for it...

22 May 2013 at 23:03  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

‘Britain will remain a target for home-grown suicide bombers for years to come because Muslims have not fully integrated into society, a senior Government adviser has warned. Iqbal Wahhab, a prominent Muslim businessman, claimed that divisions between Islamic communities and the wider population will remain for another 100 years.’—Daily Telegraph

100 years is probably the guesstimate for how long it will take for Britain to become Muslim and we’re well on the way: ‘almost one in 10 under 25s in Britain is now a Muslim.’

Inviting Islam into the West was never going to work so let’s politely show Muslims the door while it’s still our house.

22 May 2013 at 23:04  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mrs King. One is not at all suggesting that blacks with a high IQ are a threat to us...

22 May 2013 at 23:13  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Mark Durie explains the theology underlying the attack in this blog post.

22 May 2013 at 23:26  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

What an awful night it has been to be informed by our spineless tv media what exactly has happened in Woolwich. Others sensitivities more important than non muslims it seems?

Not one described that the poor soldier had been decapitated, (merely attacked/hacked was the norm) by the vile british borm scum from that delightful religion of 'peace', Islam.

Continually told it is a religion of peace all afternoon and evening yet there are thousands upon thousands persecuted and killed by them in their 'peaceful countries where Islam reigns supreme, where they rejoice even in the slaughter of their own. Is YouTube blocked to news services where the delights of loving summary justice are dispatched by the moderate muslims on their own in HD with rousing cheers of Allahu Akbar from the peace loving crowd!!

Then we have the pronunciations of something called the muslim public affairs committee spokesperson on TV screens (BBC I understand as the Bedouin Broadcasting Curs have got form and we will be shortly hearing Jeremy Bowen extolling the virtues of the persecuted group Boko Haram fighting for love and peace against a tyrannical western devil and the poor fellas having no choice but to stand up to imperialist british values at home by murdering crusader scum on their own kafir soil but SKY News...FGS) saying its all UK's fault and they (british born muslims) will continue to attack us UNLESS we change policy on muslim countries (blah blah blah PALESTINE).

Who the hell do these upstarts think they are, do they think we will take their thinly veiled threats lying down.

Listen up matie boy, muslims are only a minority in our country and we will not change what we do by being threatened by assholes like yourself. CAPICHE. You are stirring a tolerant Lion into action!

If you don't like our country . F THE F OFF back to where you and your barbaric ways are obviously sorely missed *excuse the language YG but I cannot bear this crap any longer*

Bloody Incandescent Blofeld

22 May 2013 at 23:41  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Here are some eyewitness accounts (not the sanitised media versions).

Luke Huseyin, 32, who lives in a block of flats close to where the incident happened said: “I was at home and heard a big bang. I looked out of the window and saw a car had crashed.

The two black guys got out of the car dragging a white guy across the road towards the wall. Witnesses said the attackers started attacking the victim with meat cleavers.

“One of the guys had a knife that looked about a foot long and a machete and the other bloke had a gun. Peluola saw the victim bent over on the floor with the attacker standing over him holding a 20inch knife. “They started slashing him up with the knife and hitting him in the stomach with the machete.

Boya Dee, a rapper claiming to have seen the whole incident, tweeted live from the scene. He said: "I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!"

I don’t think it took long before he was dead. “There were people passing by who were screaming and running away. I’ve never seen anything like it.
“When he was dead, they dragged him out into the road and left him there. It was strange, they didn’t run off, they just stood there as if they were waiting for the police.

People were afraid asking: ‘where are the police?’ They took a long time to arrive. “It must’ve taken about 20 minutes for the police to come.

22 May 2013 at 23:58  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

I think it's about time we brought back the death sentence for cases like this.

23 May 2013 at 00:02  
Blogger Naomi King said...

The killers appear to have been acting in accordance with a theologically determined logic, which can be fully understood on the basis of Islamic teachings. In the midst of perpetrating this carnage, they found time, calmly and clearly, to explain their motivations on camera. Here is the full text ...

"We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you. We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

23 May 2013 at 00:05  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

This is instructive and I thank YG for naming Muhammad as a false prophet, which by definition he must be if Jesus is God's son, for Muhammed denied this.

Actions speak louder than words: this is the true face of the religion of Muhammad, check the web sites jihadwatch religionofpeace and faith freedom international.

My own belief is that God has given us over to a spirit of blindness because of our rejection of his dear son Jesus. The ancient enemy of Christian Europe is taking its opportunity. I wonder if these 2jihadis were brought here by Peter Mandelson's 'search parties'

23 May 2013 at 04:51  
Blogger Maxine Schell said...

Meanwhile, on the US side of the pond, we have "WORKPLACE VIOLENCE", fueled by the same religion.

23 May 2013 at 05:15  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Johnny Rottenborough said...

Inviting Islam into the West was never going to work so let’s politely show Muslims the door while it’s still our house.

People need to think through the implications of what they are saying. In the first place, fecundity is not a moral fault. If England is at risk of being overrun by Muslims, the problem is neither immigration nor too many babies born to Muslim families. The problem is too few children born to the indigenous population. Perhaps secularized Britain needs to get off its secularized selfish self-centered ass and, you know, take responsibility for producing some kids. There's a thought.

Second, the Muslims will politely decline your invitation. What will you do then? Will you force them to leave? How? Where will they go? Who will receive them? How will you get them there? Will you intern them? Will you place them in ghettos by force? The fact of the matter is that if you want to "politely show then the door" you will quickly learn that you can't be polite. You will have to use force. And that will inevitably involve bloodshed. Are you willing to do that? Are you willing to follow this road to its inevitable end point?

Are you willing to inflict this cost on British citizens? Some Muslims are citizens after all. Are you planning to show the door to British citizens? Would you deprive them of their rights on the basis of race or religion?

And are you willing to do all these things simply on the basis of presumed collective guilt because of their religion? We complain bitterly when Fred Phelps is held up as our archetype. How is this any different? Do you know for a fact that all the individuals whom you would "show the door" are fairly represented by these two killers? Are you willing to treat alike both the innocent and the guilty on the basis of such supposition? You had better be. That is what it would require.

But if you choose to do so, then don't be so quick to condemn the movie "Der Ewige Jude" for you have become the new perpetrators of its logic. You are beginning to follow a
well-worn path with a very obvious destination. It's hard to remove a percentage of your population to some location outside your borders - especially when they don't want to go. It's even harder when they will know to resist. But you could do it - if you have the will.

It's easy to say things like "show them the door" and let the metaphor cover up all the hard details. But someone must think through those details.


23 May 2013 at 06:11  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

I think terror works. People will be more careful of slogans on t shirts and will walk on eggshells for fear of reprisals.This is a very successful method of terrorising the general population and bring them to their knees.

I remember bringing home the "Satanic Verses" and my mother ( who was a translator)freaking out about having this book in the house because Hitori Igorashi had just been murdered for translating it.

Fear works!What protection is provided really for the average person? There can be no "showing them door."

If the fox lives with the chickens in the same coop .. one does not have to have much imagination to know how that story is going to end...unless Farmer Brown enters and shoots the fox stone dead and says" sorry chickens, I thought he was tamed and muzzled"...and how can that ever happen? Farmer Brown is a fool. He would have to be for inviting the fox into the coop in the first place!

23 May 2013 at 06:52  
Blogger Ivan said...

Ahh, Hitlerrr and the Nazis, the ever serviceable bogeymen.

23 May 2013 at 07:13  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. ... whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The phrase 'you people will never be safe' is reminiscent of Muhammad's instruction to his followers to invite non-Muslims to Islam by telling them aslim taslam "Accept Islam and you will be safe" (see here). The implication is that non-Muslims are not safe because their blood and property can be taken until they convert. Thus Muhammad said to his cousin Ali, on the eve of the attack against the Jews of Khaibar:

"Fight (qātilū) until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger [i.e. until they convert to Islam] and when they do that, then their blood and their riches are inviolable [safe] from your hands." (Sahih Muslim. Book of the Merits of the Companions of the Holy Prophet 4:29:5917).

It seems the killers desired martyrdom in accordance with their beliefs, because they asked bystanders to call the police and immediately moved to attack the police when they arrived on the scene.

23 May 2013 at 07:26  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Trying to make sense of where the Koran is coming from, and struggling with it in translation, I have found one striking difference (more than one, but I won't go into that) from the Bible.

The Bible is chronological. Covenants replace one another, and the definitive New Covenant is at the end.

The Koran has a principle of abrogation where later revelations supersede earlier ones; but it tends to be in length order, and the later revelations were the longer ones. So what comes at the beginning is what counts.

Western readers - and thanks to the decisions of successive politicians, more of us may yet need to be - reassured to find peaceful commands towards the end may need to think again. The peaceful stuff may have been abrogated by the violence that came earlier.

23 May 2013 at 07:26  
Blogger David B said...

Two themes are prevalent in the posting of Inspector.

One not shown in this thread is the ad hominem attacks he makes on people with views different to those of his own, and the other is an ignorant and morally disgusting racism.

Please note, though, it is generally more the religious, perhaps in defence of their own religious privilege, who defend Islam rather than the militant atheists like myself.

Islam has many - perhaps a small minority, but far too many people - within it whose regard for ethics, liberty, the right to life of dissenters, is reminiscent of Christian churches centuries ago, when dissent and 'heresy' was viciously crushed.

Christianity has become more mature, generally, and its conception of the literal truth of its scriptures becoming, in many quarters, more realistic, as has, in some quarters, its conception of God. The Spongs and Cupitts of this world have been heading in the right direction.

It seems that in this tragic case - my deepest sympathies to the family - that the poor chap was marking himself as a supporter of the British army. People have to be allowed to do that, as, outside any work related dress codes, they must be allowed to wear a 'Jesus Saves' t-shirt, or a 'There is no God' t-shirt.

I think though that it is worth remembering that there are people from within the traditionally Islamic parts of the world who actively, with great courage, support those who leave Islam.

I think I shall see if I can again afford to slip a few quid in the direction of the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain - an organisation, I might have mentioned before, is refused charitable status, while any organisation that claims any sort of religious rationale is pretty much rubber stamped into charitable status.

In other news, apparently the new Pope has said that those who do good are heaven bound, atheist or not.

Is the Pope a Catholic?

I wonder if arguing against superstition and ignorance, and sending money the to CEMB constitutes 'good' in his book, as it certainly does in mine. Not that I expect to survive death for a moment.


23 May 2013 at 07:38  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

David B. This man has no intention of being muzzled by the likes of you accusing him of “morally disgusting racism”. This man appreciates the differences in the races and racial traits thereof, but he does so with no hate in his heart. There was “morally disgusting racism” around last night, and it resulted in a severed head.

Now, off you go to the nearest mosque and apologise on behalf of the peaceful indigenous of this country. Our indignation to the event was surely over the top, was it not ?

23 May 2013 at 08:32  
Blogger Naomi King said...

David, thanks for pointing out The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain, of which I had not previously been aware. We have a ex muslim in our congregation and she has had to give up EVERYTHING, family, home etc, etc to be free of this demonic spirit of Islam. And be not deceived it is truly a demonic spirit as yesterday's massacre witnesses. The horror of the violence and brutality dealt to that doomed young man reminded me of eyewitness accounts I have heard of the muslim massacres in the ancient Jewish community of Hebron in the early 1920's, when Jewish babies brains were dashed out against walls and whole families were hacked to pieces in a very similar fashion to what happened yesterday.

This community of Jews had been in the city of Abraham's tomb for 2,000 since the time of Christ, honouring their God given tradition and the British military colluded with the Mufti to close and seal off the Jewish area allowing the massacre to take place unhindered and indeed encouraged by the British... but that is another story.

Christianity can overcome Islam and I have heard very encouraging work of conversions from Islam to Christianity in the Barber people of North Africa under the missionary work of Operation Mobilisation. Thousands upon thousands of Barber muslims are coming to faith in Jesus Christ in Northern Africa, praise God. Open Doors, another organisation which works in muslim controlled countries is also seeing amazing numbers of people walking out of the false religion of islam and recognising Jesus Christ as their Saviour' often at unspeakable cost to their lives and their families, as His Grace has often posted about on this site.

The situation is very complex but that God that hearts and minds are being won to God from out of this tyranny. Lets pray that we see a similar revival in this country as a result of the pure evil manifested yesterday.

23 May 2013 at 08:50  
Blogger Naomi King said...

I notice the papers are watering down the truth even more this morning and the Government are treating us as 'useful idiots'. The message from the top seems to be "airbrush out that the hacking was done to the cry Allah is Great and that the confession began thus ...

One of the killers, speaking in a home-grown English accent, is heard on video to say:

... ayah in Sura at-Tauba, [Sura or Chapter 9 of the Koran] many, many ayah [verses] throughout the Koran that [say] we must fight them as they fight us, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologize that women had to witness this today, but in our land women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you.

23 May 2013 at 08:58  
Blogger Naomi King said...

These muslims believe it is therefore legitimate for Muslims to wage jihad against the British. British people, who voted the government into power, are also considered to be personally culpable, which is why we, in their words 'will never be safe' and we are told to 'remove your government'.

The killer's language is strikingly reminiscent of Bin Ladin's November 2002 letter to the American people, in which he not only spoke of 'removal' of governments (in Muslim lands), but also explained that it was legitimate to attack American civilians because they are the ones who voted their government into power:

"... the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. ... The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want. ... the American army is part of the American people. ... This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us. ... Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. ... whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The phrase 'you people will never be safe' is reminiscent of Muhammad's instruction to his followers to invite non-Muslims to Islam by telling them aslim taslam "Accept Islam and you will be safe".

23 May 2013 at 09:05  
Blogger The Explorer said...

More signs of the Orwellian perversion of language. My Yahoo headline is about the "alleged attackers".

Alleged Muslims, maybe. But alleged ATTACKERS? Is there really any doubt that they did it: given video evidence and their own proclamations?

23 May 2013 at 09:26  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

Atrocities committed in the name of religion are actually committed by man. God condemns murder.
EXCEPT when "he" doesn't of course ...
See both the bible & the koran & marxist doctrine.

Utter bollocks, I'm afraid.


23 May 2013 at 09:30  
Blogger non mouse said...

Well interpreted, Mrs. King @ 09:05. I believe you're right: it is a threat. Thanks for the insight.

23 May 2013 at 09:32  
Blogger The Explorer said...

David B 07:38

Hello again.

Spong and Cupitt.

The "subdue the Earth" command of 'Genesis' may be taken as an incentive to us to use our brains and find out things. (Thus, I think, Roger Bacon, Copernicus, Mendel). In this sense, it is perfectly valid for Chrisitianity to reinterpret itself in the light of developing knowledge, but without abandoning its core beliefs.

Christianity is either a revelation, or it isn't. If it's just a human invention, that's not a case for modification: that's a case for abandonment altogether.

When Leslie Stephen ceased to believe,he resigned his post and became a journalist. That seems to me entirely honourable: and, in my view, much more acceptable to God than living what Stephen believed to be a lie wouold have been.

The Spong half-life seems to me much less tenable. Where the Spong spirit has prevailed, there are empty pews. What's the point in worshipping when there's nothing to believe? Better close down the church in question altogether, and convert it into a social centre.

23 May 2013 at 09:44  
Blogger Naomi King said...

It's also unclear whether these killers were converts to the Salafist-Wahabi strand of Islam - of which Al Qaeda is the one of the most violent manifestations - from a traditional Islamic background or whether they were new recruits from outside the religion altogether. But what is certain is that beheading British soldiers has been an aim among those inspired by Al Qaeda for some time.

For example, Parvix Khan from Birmingham received a life sentence in 2007 for plotting to behead a soldier "like a pig" . Yesterday's assassins were taking a well-trodden path - albeit one with a peculiarly modern end: of inviting passersby to videoed his ideological propaganda.

As one of yesterday's assassins put it: "We want to start a war in London".

Government needs to grasp that violent religion has its roots in violent ideology - which infects the minds of young men like a virus, and lends them identity, position and power within their religious group. And this is evil ideology.

Most politicians must recognise, none the less, that Britain has been a warm home for Muslims and many do acknowledge in private (but not in public) that the driving cause of yesterday's bloody horror on the streets of Woolwich isn't deprivation, or inter-generational tension, or even foreign policy, but ideology: the belief that Muslim-majority countries must defeat and destroy western democracies, and that the solution lies in an Islamic religion which has at his core a twisted totalitarian ideology just like communism and naziism.

I wonder how many Al Qaeda terror assaults it will take to spark attacks on Muslims and mosques. It is time the government got real to the threat within and stopped lying to us about multiculturalism and sharia law and the building of mega mosques.

23 May 2013 at 09:52  
Blogger Naomi King said...

I have just spent an hour listening to the American and British media pundits who simply refuse to understand that these Islamic believers are not radicalised terrorist Muslims; NO they are simply young men carrying out the fundamental commands of all true believers as set out in the Koran, the Hadith and the Sura.

Dave Cameron is a total idiot claiming "we will not buckle to terrorists". The British and European governments by allowing Sharia law to be practiced in Britain and European cities which have created areas called 'no go zones' for non-islamic citizens have already buckled big time.

Listening to the major mushy mass media BBC and CNN and the like their error is totally exposed. Until they wise up, the public will continue to be ignorant of the truth of the deadly threat that is Islam. This is the truth. There is no denying the FACTS of what happened yesterday, shockingly horrible as they are.

23 May 2013 at 10:06  
Blogger David B said...


And hello to you, too.

Hmm. Yes.

While the view of god of the Spongs and Cupitts of this world seems to me more sensible than that of the Biblical (or Koranic)literalist, or the view of those who thank God for his grace for saving them from death in a tornado, with a backdrop of many others dead and destruction all around, I take your point that it can easily be seen as a desperate attempt to hold onto some sort of faith, but one pretty much devoid of content.

I agree that they would be more honourable if they were more upfront about not believing in a god as the term is generally understood, and indeed were to argue more strongly against believers - Islamic, Christian, whatever - who believe things that are contradictory to what by any reasonable definition of the term 'known' is known.


23 May 2013 at 10:15  
Blogger David Richards said...

Er... Suras are just chapters in the Qur'an, thery're not something separate. Perhaps some of those pundits don't agree with you because they are actually informed about Islam, which as a religion of 1.3 billion people is hardly monolithic (when was the last time an attack was carried out by an Ismaili or Ahmaddiya?) Sunni Islam, like Judaism, is very decentralised, and places most of its emphasis on law - with 4 recognised schools of law, and a number of competing interpretive traditions. Some if those traditions are inimical, some are not. And I don't see what is accomplished by telling Muslims they should be following the inimical ones.

And Carl Jacobs is right, both on demography and on euphemisms such as "show them the door".

23 May 2013 at 10:29  
Blogger Ivan said...

Whether there are four or ten schools of interpretations among the Sunnis, what difference does it make to the victims of Islamic terrorism and violence? How is it that the Al-Queda types can quote chapter and verse justifying their actions, whereas the few moderates willing to talk about Islamic violence are reduced to mumbling about "the death of one man is equivalent to the death of the whole world...", a fragment which on closer examination turns out to be about the death of a Muslim rather than a generic man? Generally the Muslim moderates in the West, such as they are function to appease the kaffirs rather than have any impact on their own terrorists, as such their hand-wringing and sincere intentions are at best a distraction.

23 May 2013 at 10:52  
Blogger David Richards said...

Except that Muslims disagree as to the interpretation of those verses, and those disagreements go back hundreds of years. And as I alluded to, there are groups that have no history of terrorism. When one adds that many of the victims of Islamist terrorism are Muslims, what point is there in trying to pick a fight with all Muslims?

23 May 2013 at 11:13  
Blogger The Explorer said...


"God saved me from the tornado." I find such statements deeply embarrassing - what about those whom God DIDN'T save? - and I would not try to defend them.

My view is 'Paradise Lost' is a great poem. That's debatable. My view is that it was published in 1667 is not. Either it was, or it wasn't: I am constrained by data.

Are Spong and Cupitt free to have any view of God they want; or are they, too, constrained by data?

If it's what's consistent with reason, then that tends to lead - rightly, in my view, to atheism: "I have no need of that hypothesis."

Again, not well expressed - time pressure - but I hope clear enough to make the point.

Also, away from the topic of this thread, but an interesting line, none the less.

23 May 2013 at 11:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ The Explorer (07:26)—The order in which the chapters of the Qur’an were supposedly revealed to the Prophet is given here. As a rule, the Medinan revelations are more fanatical than the earlier Meccan revelations. Apart from making a mess of the chapter order, the editors misplaced verses and entire passages and made grammatical mistakes. There are instances where the Qur’an reads awkwardly, the result of clerks making mistakes during copying; some of the mistakes are attributed to an excess of ink causing a letter to blot and being read for another letter, easily done in Arabic. Overall, one sentence in five of the Qur’an is incomprehensible, something that doesn’t come through in translations.

23 May 2013 at 11:54  
Blogger Ivan said...

There is no doubt that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are simply trying to get by. I may in fact know more Muslims than anyone on this board. The Islamic terrorists though represent the steel point of penetration into pliant victims; the Hadiths, Sunna and Koran literally interpreted is on their side, which is why their moderates have such a hard time. The fate of Benazir Bhutto and Salman Taseer are representative examples. For a devout Muslim, the sunna - the exemplary actions of their prophet, the summit of human perfection - are normative.

Now, Mohammed was a brigand, rapist, child-molester, murderer and a breaker of treaties, who in addition to the virtuous words - respect for parents, kindness to the poor and so on - left an effective manual for the destruction and despoliation of the infidel embedded in the Koran. How then are the terrorist being 'bad Muslims'? How are the rape and grooming jihadis misinterpreting the Koran, when Mohamed himself commended the sexual enslavement of females of other tribes, both by his words and example. Again it is true, that by adroit casuistry one can spiritualise away much of the harshness, the command to "kill the infidels" is taken to mean that one should not compromise with evil, "never to take Christians or Jews as companions" now mean that one should not be led astray by the faithless and so on. The human mind being what it is, can invent endless rationalisations, or as computer programmers will put it, raise one more level of indirection. But the adamantine fact remains that Muslims have not been able to coherently preach coexistence, as that was never in the origins and indeed is contrary to all that the Koran represents.

At this point, the Boeotians - the atheist crowd - would of course distract attention by pointing to the Crusades, the Albigensians and witchcraft trials. They effectively function as an element that blunt any response no matter how mild. Which is why when it comes to the future of any nation, the left and the Islamists are on the same side and should be treated accordingly.

23 May 2013 at 12:38  
Blogger Ivan said...

The buildup to the murder and terror surrounding the 'Satanic Verses' serves as an object lesson on the protean nature of the threat posed by Islamists. Hardly anyone noticed Salman Rushdie's novel until the Indian government under Rajiv Gandhi caved in to some Muslim greviance merchant, and banned the novel. For this the Indians were rewarded with riots in Bombay. Khomeini - the ayatollah who commends beastiality to the faithful - took up the scent and passed a fatwa. The rest is history.

23 May 2013 at 13:16  
Blogger Nick said...

My first reaction reading DCs words "we will not buckle to terrorists" was "what a helpful distraction for a failing PM". There's nothing leaders like more than a crime lke this as an excuse to put on their superman suits and look tough. DC, as always, is just exploiting an horrific personal tradegy to put on a bit of fake drama and convince the nation this is part of a terrorist blitz, instead of what it probably is, a violent attack buy some deranged psychos using a warped interpretation of the koran as excuse.

Leave it to the Police Mr Cameron, and stop hijacking these tradegies for personal political gain

23 May 2013 at 13:17  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Johnny R (11:54)

I checked it out. Thanks for that: more complicated than I suggested.

Would you agree, though, with my general point about Western readers? They tend to skip over the OT and focus on the New. Reading the Koran in the same way, they skip over the Medina sections and focus on the Meccan: sometimes without even being aware of what they are doing.

23 May 2013 at 14:07  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ The Explorer (14:07)—Yes, it’s a good point. The development of the Qur’an from being relatively friendly towards non-Muslims to calling for their death has proved very useful to Islam, enabling Muslims to quote the friendly verses while abiding by the distinctly non-friendly verses. Deception and lying are approved by Islam if they are in pursuit of a noble cause. If such a cause cannot be achieved by telling the truth but can be achieved by lying, it is obligatory for Muslims to lie.

23 May 2013 at 14:09  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ carl jacobs (06:11)—We’ve been over this before, Carl. For the benefit of new readers, I’ll repeat what I said then: you’re advising the English to enter a breeding competition with a faith that marries young, that views its women as nothing more than wombs on legs and that practises polygamy, and you would award England to the victor.

We were never asked if we wanted Muslims in our country. Now that they are here, the 2004 Office for National Statistics report ‘Focus on Religion’ tells us that Muslims are the least likely to be in work, the least likely to be looking for work, the most likely to be sick and the most likely to be disabled. Even without the obnoxious religion they bring with them, no one can argue that Muslims are a benefit to England.

This being our homeland, it is our prerogative to take whatever measures are needed to defend it.

23 May 2013 at 14:39  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

They effectively function as an element that blunt any response...


This shows how little you know. The first to condemn atheists like Dawkins and Dennett are religionists who know their own weaknesses lay in the undeniable shared similarities in all three monotheistic mythologies.

23 May 2013 at 15:04  
Blogger Minnie said...

Its equivalent - or, rather, precursor - has been on our streets since the Rushdie 'fatwa', culminating in 7/7.

23 May 2013 at 16:11  
Blogger Ivan said...

Historically the West was defended from the ravages of Islam by men who took their Christian faith seriously , there were no idiotic atheists mucking up the action then. Martel, Richard Lionheart, Phillip II, Don Juan, Jan Sobieski the list is long and glorious. Even near Deists such as Jefferson in America approached the problem from the point of view of the historical West. Dennett and Dawkins; who are these jokers? The former had his 15 mins of fame, with his Darwin's Dangerous Idea, which recommends that children of religious parents be made wards of state. This is a clear illustration of the baggage these atheists bring to the table; they are utterly useless when confronting Islam but that doesn't prevent them from continuing to undermine the traditions of the Christian West which provides the foundation for all effort Islam. The clown Denett sounded impressive when one is around 20 years old, but a reread of his earlier books should convince anyone that he is a total idiot who has little to say. The same goes for Dawkins another superannuated fool, alledged Professor for the Public Understanding of Science who cannot write a simple article on physics or mathematics. And these fellows are your standard-bearers? Bums who spend more time undermining the foundations than doing anything useful?

23 May 2013 at 17:47  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Johnny Rottenborough

Hrmmm. Let's rewrite that, shall we?

We were never asked if we wanted [Jews] in our country. Now that they are here, the [RSHA Referat IV B4] tells us that [Jews] are the least likely to be in work, the least likely to be looking for work, the most likely to be sick and the most likely to be disabled. Even without the obnoxious religion they bring with them, no one can argue that [Jews] are a benefit to [the Reich.]

I didn't change much. How would we react to the modified quote absent this context of this thread? Do you want to know how Germany started following this path? This is how.

This being our homeland, it is our prerogative to take whatever measures are needed to defend it.

Where homeland is defined by race? Or religion? A Muslim child who was born in Great Britain and is a citizen of Great Britain is not entitled to call it his homeland?

You should say out loud the "measures needed." Burn the mosques. Set up the concentration camps. Arrest the intellectual leaders. Make it illegal for Muslims to work. Dispossess them of their property. Herd them into ghettos. Make them wear identifiable symbols. Terrorize them to emigrate. Search the prisons for recruits for the Sonder Kommandos. When you find out that your plans won't work, you can set up the trains and the camps and the ovens. Just say out loud what you think needs to be done. Because that is where this 'idea' of showing Muslims the door is headed.

Do you have the stones for it?


23 May 2013 at 18:07  
Blogger non mouse said...

Mr. Jacobs - you are like so many Americans in not understanding that British homelands are not the same thing as to us as the US is to you.

Your ruling contingent haven't even been there for a thousand years - and you took the place away from the indigenes. In contrast, we descend from settlers who have been here for at least 8,500 years. They got here shortly after seas from the melting Younger Dryas, by the Grace of God, separated us from euroland.

I amuse myself by believing that's why they came here - it was as far away as they could get, at the time. And we've fought to keep it that way ... right up until the marxopians took over....

23 May 2013 at 18:18  
Blogger non mouse said...

PS: "separated us" -- I mean the Isles. That's the thing, you see. We're a part of the land in a way you cannot know.

You insult us by assuming otherwise.

23 May 2013 at 18:20  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ carl jacobs (18:07)—I didn’t change much

Replacing fact with fiction is quite a large change really.

England is the home of the English, a white race, just as Japan is the home of the Japanese, a yellowish race.

The measures needed are nothing more frightening than offering financial incentives to Muslims to relocate to the countries their parents or grandparents came from. I imagine opinion will so turn against Muslims that they’ll want to leave anyway. On the bright side, they’ll find themselves living in the climate to which they are physiologically adapted.

RIP Drummer Lee Rigby

23 May 2013 at 18:27  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 May 2013 at 18:30  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 May 2013 at 18:52  
Blogger non mouse said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 May 2013 at 18:53  
Blogger non mouse said...

Interesting, Your Grace -- that ITN has now blocked the video. I just went back to see if the hatchet and knife (there's no machete in sight) had blood on them.

Or was it only the hands, of which we must ask:
[Macbeth] "Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood
Clean from [his] hand?"

And answer: "No; this [his] hand will rather
The multitudinous seas incarnadine,
Making the green one red." (Macbeth II.ii.59-62).

23 May 2013 at 19:23  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Historically the West was defended from the ravages of Islam by men who took their Christian faith seriously

And in doing so committed atrocities against anyone who thought differently - yeah that's something to be really proud of. Religion drips with the blood of deranged mad-men all right, and you are welcome to it.

23 May 2013 at 19:28  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

You really are a dope confused, hopeless shit Dreadnaught...

23 May 2013 at 20:41  
Blogger David B said...

What was I saying earlier about Inspector reverting to ad homs when he has no answers?

Just in case he goes back to delete the relevant post, this was addressed to Dreadnaught

"You really are a dope confused, hopeless shit Dreadnaught..."


23 May 2013 at 21:35  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

David B. The Inspector is on record to state that he no longer does ad hominem. So, we can can conclude that when he goes out of his way to do so, it is because the recipients are more than deserving. And by Christ, you and drug addict are that, to be sure !

23 May 2013 at 22:06  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

The murder of Lee Rigby in such a horrible way is a terrible, evil thing. My thoughts and prayers for him and his family.

23 May 2013 at 22:27  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

23 May 2013 at 22:29  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Johnny Rottenborough

Replacing fact with fiction is quite a large change really.

But I didn't replace fact with fiction. I pointed out the historical pedigree of doing whatever is necessary to defend the homeland - to include showing the door to Muslims.

England is the home of the English, a white race, just as Japan is the home of the Japanese, a yellowish race.

OK, then. So members of "non-white races" have no standing to claim British citizenship even if they were born in Britain. Now that we have that cleared up ...

The measures needed are nothing more frightening than offering financial incentives to Muslims to relocate to the countries their parents or grandparents came from.

Right. In what universe do you think that will happen? How much money would you take to move from Britain to (say) Pakistan? How much money do you think could be allocated to buy Muslims out of Britain? And you haven't even considered the fact that many of these individuals have never lived in Pakistan. Where will they live? What will they do?

So let's move on to the next phase of doing whatever is necessary to defend the homeland from Muslims. One thing is for sure. It won't be polite.


24 May 2013 at 01:06  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Carl said

" How much money would you take to move from Britain to (say) Pakistan? How much money do you think could be allocated to buy Muslims out of Britain? And you haven't even considered the fact that many of these individuals have never lived in Pakistan. Where will they live? What will they do?"
Indeed lad but more importantly, even if those things were done what would happen if the muslim countries they were descended from historically said NO to accepting them, as most would be british born and not holding that country's citizenship...The countries concerned would no doubt view it as islamophobic oppression and refuse to's your problem?
No easy solutions are there my lad! It's called a rock and a very hard place thanks to years of mindless social engineering by politicians far removed from the ghettos they have created but demanding one way tolerance so that we do not know who the heck is here amongst us.


24 May 2013 at 01:18  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ carl jacobs (01:06)—Non-whites can be given British passports but they cannot become British or English, in the same way that I cannot become Nigerian.

If our Muslims refuse to countenance a return to Pakistan—and Pakistan may not want them anyway—we could honour our obligations to them as British passport holders by moving them to one of those British overseas territories that are scattered around the world. South Georgia, perhaps. A little nippy at times but good for penguin spotting.

24 May 2013 at 01:29  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Johnny Rottenborough

we could honour our obligations to them as British passport holders by moving them to one of those British overseas territories that are scattered around the world. South Georgia, perhaps.

Heh. Nice little attempted evasion there. Should I construe that as a tacit admission that your "buy them out" scheme doesn't have a snowball's chance of actually working? In which case, you have run yourself into a nice little cul-de-sac. You can either repudiate the idea of showing Muslims the door, or you can admit that you intend to do it by force.


24 May 2013 at 01:48  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...


It has been said that a radical Islamist will cut off your head, and the moderate Islamist will say you probably deserved what you got....

It was reported that a group of reporters in Sweden, went with a camera to a mosque to speak with a few imams and to investigate discrimination against women. The imams went on record stipulating their commitment to women's right and denouncing any radicalism. Then, they sent in 2 reporters, posing as Muslim women seeking advice from those same imams (with hidden cameras in operation). They were told it was their duty to sleep with their husband even when they do not want to and take a beating when their husband sees fit.

Moral for the British public when hearing great concern from muslim leaders: What they say in public and what they think in private regarding radicals and the like are two very different things.

Over the next few days the BBC and others will major on the scum filled murdering haters and ask, sadly, what went wrong with their assimilation into mainstream community and another brushing under the carpet of the real concerns of the majority will be cynically underway.


24 May 2013 at 02:50  
Blogger Ivan said...

And in doing so committed atrocities...

Precisely my point: fellows like you would rather spend time picking scabs and braying 'we ain't perfect either' rather than man the lines.

24 May 2013 at 03:57  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

He speaks a lot of sense for someone who has just committed a murder.

"I apologize that women had to witness this today..... You people will never be safe."


"Remove your governments. They don’t care about you."

Also true

"Do you think David Cameron is gonna get caught in the street when we start busting our guns?"

Pictures of Harriet Harman MP come to mind visiting her constituents in an anti- stab jacket

"Do you think the politicians are going to die?"

Same image

"No it's going to be the average guy, like you, and your children."

Time to take his threat seriously (It has been for a long time) or take the consequences.


PS perhaps it is time that the English started to be proud of their country? (again?) Like the Welsh or the Scots? Why are (many of) you not?

24 May 2013 at 07:53  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Johnny,

If your issue is with islam, I am not sure why you have made this white/non white argument? Non whites can be Christians and whites can be muslims. Most faiths accept converts, regardless of skin colour.

24 May 2013 at 08:00  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

24 May 2013 at 08:01  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Phil,

Scottish and Welsh nationalism is "OK" whereas English nationalism is seem entirely negatively (as is Ulster Unionism) by the 'establishment' as "EDL"/"BNP"....

I think on the thread above even Peter Damien corrected me that we live in the UK, not England. To be honest with all of the whingeing scotland does, I'd be happy to let them be a republic. Then they can go and blame themselves, not the English for all their woes.

24 May 2013 at 08:04  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


I think the Welsh are happy with the current arrangement.

Whenever you meet a Welshman abroad there is nearly always a fondness for Wales.

I spoke to a guy about our home town Carmarthen the other day. The guy had been living in Germany for several years and was fluent German.

However, when I mentioned Carmarthen he said "Ah marvelous place Wales isn't it"

You very rarely get the English talk like that about their home towns. (The one exception seems to be Bath.)

Why not?


24 May 2013 at 10:23  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Phil,

I think it is because England being the biggest part of the UK, has meant in our Politically Correct world, the English are not encouraged to be proud of our country. If you do it is considered to be little englander, nationalist, racist etc.

This is strange because there is a lot for England to like-the Peak district in Derbyshire, the Lake district and the lovely chocolate box villages of the cotswolds and Gloucestershire, where Mr Inspector comes from. There are also a lot of urban areas, which have been generated- Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham and of course London.

Because the Welsh, Irish, Scottish are considered to be 'victims' of British Imperialism it is therefore acceptable for those groups to be nationalistic, even though it sometimes feels that a lot of the nationalism , at least at a political level,is negatively charged against the English. The film 'Braveheart' is a good example of the mythos there.

24 May 2013 at 11:00  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ carl jacobs (01:48)—As I said last week or whenever, ‘This being our homeland, it is our prerogative to take whatever measures are needed to defend it’ but I hope England’s Reconquista will be achieved with minimum violence.

@ Hannah Kavanagh (08:00)—I was responding to carl jacobs. He had raised the subject of British ethnicity.

24 May 2013 at 11:05  
Blogger non mouse said...

Ah, Your Grace. I see the vid's back up - and yes the implements are only too well bloodied. Clearly the protagonist made sure of that before he considerately granted an interview to the intrepid cameraperson.

Otherwise, I note Mr. Davies's commentary is one of the most inaccurate possible. His description of what's going on in the first part doesn't parallel the scene. Obviously what follows is a second part - though I don't know why we should care about the bus that was going to a job interview.

Still, he's speaking of misplaced modifiers ....

24 May 2013 at 16:47  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

PS- mea Culpa. I have a sister in law who is Welsh and one who is Northern Irish (both converts to Judaism). And we do have Scottish relatives. Just don't like the ravings of the SNP. So perhaps I do want the UK to go on.

24 May 2013 at 18:11  
Blogger David B said...

Phil, the great virtue of Carmarthen is that it is quite close to Tenby.


24 May 2013 at 23:22  
Blogger LEN said...

Surely it is time for the authorities to act to prevent these obscene acts of religious/racist hatred on our streets.
To be hacked to death to the shouts of' Allahu Akbar' on a public Street must surely have brought home to even the most dim witted Government official that we have a serious problem with Islamic extremists right in our very midst.
This is a problem of our Governments making and they need to act to secure the safety of the public before more acts of religious barbarism occur.

25 May 2013 at 15:08  
Blogger Peter D said...

LEN, we live in dark and desperate times. One suspects it will take such savage acts to snap the public out of the state of apathy brought on through the failure of leadership from our established church and our political leaders.

26 May 2013 at 00:15  
Blogger LEN said...

I am beginning to wonder just how bad it will have to get before this Government wakes up and takes some action (above and beyond forming another useless 'committee'.)

26 May 2013 at 09:46  
Blogger LEN said...

Peter this Government needs to take its testicles out of Mother EU`s handbag and to re apply them!!.

Stick hate preachers on planes and give them one way tickets to whatever rock they crawled out from under.

26 May 2013 at 09:49  

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