Wednesday, May 08, 2013

Nigel Lawson makes Ukip the Greatest Show on Earth

            Peter Brookes cartoon for 08.05.2013 The Times

When Kenneth Clarke referred to Ukip supporters as clowns - perhaps out of a degree of coulrophobia - he gifted Nigel Farage one of the greatest ripostes of recent political history: "Send in the Clowns", the Ukip leader sang, as Sondheim's fools were fooled and three-way politics was turned on its head.

Following Ukip's seismic performance in the local elections, neither Clarke nor Farage could have imagined that an entire circus would soon come to town. Not with mad hats, blue wigs, red noses or floppy shoes, but all the traditional performance skills of the clowning profession. Nigel Lawson is used to high-wire acts. He can walk a tightrope, tame a lion, and probably ride a horse, an elephant or an ostrich, too (though the Queen is due to announce their banning in circuses today).

The Lawson clown is now the Ringmaster, and he will soon become the Emcee of Euroscepticism. This is no bad thing: the movement has long needed a Master of Ceremonies with gravitas to compensate for Farage's sparkly Music Hall act. Lawson is no Churchill, but he speaks with impeccable logic and the weight of experience. More importantly, he is a convert to the cause: this once-europhile chancellor - the man who forced Margaret Thatcher to join the ERM in preparation for Britain joining the euro - has recanted and repented. And not only is now anti-euro, he is anti-EU. And that makes this clown not so much a clumsy auguste or harlequin attempting trivial acrobatic feats of balance and agility, but a dignified and sophisticated clown blanc - expressing the tired weight of the wisdom of his years.

This clown has also turned fortune teller, and has revealed the 'Hanged Man' Tarot card.

David Cameron will not be able to renegotiate the UK's 'relationship' with the EU. Anything he wins will be 'inconsequential', for the Acquis is one way: it is 'ever closer union'. Nothing he gains will be of any substance, for that would be a shift to an à la Carte Europe, which is simply not on offer. Clown Lawson tells us that the EU has become a 'bureaucratic monstrosity' and that the benefits of leaving 'would substantially outweigh the costs'.

If Cameron can't even circumvent the obfuscatory strategies of his own civil service, what hope does he have taming the Euro-Beast?

Clown Lawson now understands what many of us have long known: “Not only do our interests increasingly differ from those of the eurozone members but, while never ‘at the heart of Europe’, we are now becoming increasingly marginalised as we are doomed to being consistently outvoted by the eurozone bloc.”

If we were to leave, not only would we save the £8bn a year 'membership fee', we would no longer be subject to EU regulation and red tape which Clown Lawson reminds us 'imposes substantial economic costs on all member states'. And the City would be saved from an EU 'frenzy of regulatory activism... the foolish and damaging financial transactions tax, imposed against strong UK opposition'.

He added: “Those who claim that to leave the EU would damage the City are the very same as those who in the past confidently predicted, with a classic failure of understanding, that the City would be gravely damaged if the UK failed to adopt the euro as its currency.”

The mistake Ken Clarke (and the europhile media and establishment) makes is to believe that clowns are inconsequential idiots in a circus pantomime. They are not and were never 'court jesters'; clowns have long served a socio-religious and psychological role - even in some cultures combined with the role of priest. They entertain in order to impart a truth: they exaggerate to reflect our absurdities and hypocrisies. They warn, admonish and enlighten. And the people generally like them for their forthright defiance and colourful impudence. Better than the bland sea of political mediocrity, anyway.


Blogger bluedog said...

A timely post, Your Grace.

Also of great significance is Cameron's admission that the Coalition precludes even a referendum on the EU. Hence the long-dated option that Cameron has offered, exerciseable after May 2015. We had always believed that the partnership between Cameron and Clegg was a relationship closer than marriage. Yet now one party to the union is speaking about the other in an openly disloyal fashion. Usually a sign of impending divorce.

It seems Cameron is wounded by defeated Conservative councillors who have declared that he cannot be trusted. Clegg would now agree, but who cares what Clegg thinks?

8 May 2013 at 10:13  
Blogger Preacher said...

There is none better equipped to show the truth than the repentant sinner turned believer, either in politics or in faith.
After the council elections, Clegg is a spent force, moreover he is now a liability to the Conservatives & if Cameron has any hope of survival, he must cut the rope & jettison this dead weight that clings forlornly to his coat tails mouthing meaningless rubbish & presuming that the populace will listen. At the last general election, those who voted Lib Dem expected a Lib Dem opposition, able to swing the vote one way or the other on divided issues. While the Conservatives hoped for a Conservative majority. neither group got what they voted for.
Nigel Lawson speaks with the voice of experience, learned at the peak of the affairs of state. He has ripped the mask from the face of the E.U & shown its true colours & the fate of those who sit listening to the band as the ship sinks. Ignore him at your peril kiddies.

8 May 2013 at 10:34  
Blogger Naomi King said...

David Cameron will not be able to renegotiate the UK's 'relationship' with the EU. Anything he wins will be 'inconsequential', for the Acquis is one way: it is 'ever closer union'. Nothing he gains will be of any substance.

How true. Well said Your Grace.

8 May 2013 at 10:36  
Blogger Nick said...

Clarke, Cameron, and Osborne made a grave error of judgement in branding UKIP supporters as clowns, closet racists, etc... As Norman "Krusty" Tebbit said: When the customers are walking past your shop to buy elsewhere, you don't deal with it by insulting them.

8 May 2013 at 10:46  
Blogger Naomi King said...

EU Power without Limits Nigel Farage MEP, Speaking on 17th April 2013 to the European Parliament

Leader of the UK Independence Party (UKIP), Co-President of the 'Europe of Freedom and Democracy' (EFD) Group in the European Parliament

Published on Apr 17, 2013
• European Parliament, Strasbourg,


Years ago, Mrs Thatcher recognised the truth behind the European Project. She saw that it was about taking away democracy from nation states and handing that power to largely unaccountable people.

Knowing as she did that the euro would not work she saw that this was a very dangerous design. Now we in UKIP take that same view and I tried over the years in this parliament to predict what the next moves would be as the euro disaster unfolded.

But not even me, in my most pessimistic of speeches would have imagined, Mr Rehn, that you and others in the Troika would resort to the level of common criminals and steal money from peoples' bank accounts in order to keep propped up this total failure that is the euro.

You even tried to take money away from the small investors in direct breach of the promise you made back in 2008.

Well the precedent has been set, and if we look at countries like Spain where business bankruptcies are up 45% year on year, we can see what your plan is to deal with the other bailouts as they come.

I must say, the message this sends out to investors is very loud and clear: Get your money out of the Eurozone before they come for you.
What you have done in Cyprus is you actually sounded the death knell of the euro. Nobody in the international community will have confidence in leaving their money there.

And how ironic to see the Russian prime minister Dmitry Medvedev compare your actions and say, ' I can only compare it to some of the decisions taken by the Soviet authorities.'

And then we have a new German proposal that says that actually what we ought to do is confiscate some of the value of peoples' properties in the southern Mediterranean eurozone states.

This European Union is the new communism. It is power without limits. It is creating a tide of human misery and the sooner it is swept away the better.

But what of this place, what of the parliament? This parliament has the ability to hold the Commission to account. I have put down a motion of censure debate on the table. I wonder whether any of you have the courage to recognise it and to support it. I very much doubt that.

And I am minded that there is a new Mrs Thatcher in Europe and he is called Frits Bolkenstein. And he has said of this parliament - remember he is a former Commissioner: 'It is not representative anymore for the Dutch or European citizen. The European Parliament is living out a federal fantasy which is no longer sustainable.'

How right he is.

Support: | |

8 May 2013 at 10:50  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


The phrase "what have the Romans ever done for us?" comes to mind whenever I read your political rants.

Like all things the EU is a mix, some good some bad.


8 May 2013 at 11:02  
Blogger Nick said...

... and look what happened to the Romans Better not to go down with that kind of ship. I beleive the Roman empire collapsed, at least in part, under the weight of its own corruption. Very apt.

8 May 2013 at 11:10  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

The business case for or against leaving the EU is tricky.

One specious argument used to support leaving is that because we import far more from the EU than we export to it, it will always be in their interests to deal with us on favourable terms, because they need us more than we need them.

This is cobblers, because we will still need to buy all the stuff from them that we no longer make ourselves, and much of that cannot be replaced from other sources; if we were to stop importing food, consumer and industrial goods from the EU, there would be economic collapse and a revolution. If exporting more than you import were to be a weakness, Germany would be the weakest nation on earth, but oddly enough it isn't. Germany's economic strength comes from the fact that people the world over want and need to buy German manufactured goods.

Also, British business has in many ways embraced Common Market principles more than any other nation. British manufacturers and exporters rely on imported components and raw materials, because the domestic supply chains for many of these lower value-added products have shrunk so much over the years (aerospace and the car industry being rare exceptions in which Britain still has good domestic supply chains). German manufacturers can source pretty much everything they need to make a product from within Germany; most British manufacturers cannot, and thus depend on free trade with the EU.

On the other hand, the argument that we would have to obey all the Common Market rules but lose our influence in forming them is also cobblers, predicated as it is on the belief that we have any influence over Common Market rules to lose.

We could also begin to unpick some of the web of red tape that hinders business, but not as much as some seem to think, because if we did we would infringe Common Market rules which we would still have to follow to export to Europe.

We should still get out of the EU, to preserve our independence from the said bureaucratic monstrosity and technocratic super-state, but the economic benefits of leaving the EU are much less clear-cut than some Eurosceptics seem to think.

8 May 2013 at 11:16  
Blogger Albert said...

Today Dave is saying that he cannot bring forward legislation for a referendum in this Parliament. But last week he was saying he would bring forward legislation to safeguard a referendum after the General Election.

Can someone explain this? I find it hard to see how he can do one and not the other.

8 May 2013 at 11:22  
Blogger Nick said...

It's difficult for him to do it because of the LibDems tugging in the opposite direction. Result? Obfuscation

8 May 2013 at 11:31  
Blogger Albert said...

The Lib Dems seem to count against either piece of legislation. Obfuscation does seem to be the most reasonable description. Of course, if we were able to give him the benefit of the doubt that might be different, but we can't. He used up all that credit long ago.

8 May 2013 at 11:34  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Nigel Farage’s observation that the EU is ‘the new communism’ brought to mind an article by John Butler in the UKIP newsletter. He wrote:

‘One of the most revealing (and little reported) remarks of modern times came at a dinner hosted in the mid nineties by Tory party grandees, and attended by the last leader of the Soviet Union, Mikhail Gorbachev. The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade, he said, was the apparent determination of Western European leaders to recreate the Soviet Union in Western Europe.’

Butler went on to list similarities between the EU and the USSR:

● A self-selecting political élite which governs through unaccountable institutions
● A bloated bureaucracy
● Institutionalized corruption
● An ideological hostility towards any form of nationalism
● The use of propaganda, disseminated through education and the media
● Elevation of the legal rights of the state above those of the citizen
● The culture of state secrecy replicated in the European Commission

8 May 2013 at 11:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your on damn good form today, Archbishop. An excellent appraisal you have there, Sir !

The Inspector has been pipped to it by Mr Rottenborough, who makes the insightful point that the collapse of the USSR removed the very raison d’etre of the political union extension of the EEC. Well done that man !

One is still rather mystified why UKIP doesn't make greater capital of this truth, and Gorbechev’s observation. After all, it’s from the former Secretary General of arguably the greatest Communist party this earth has ever suffered...

8 May 2013 at 12:23  
Blogger IanCad said...

Excellent post YG,

We must leave the beast.
However, it would appear to me that Labour is almost certain to form the next government.
Farage is not going away. Infighting and division will be the lot of the CP until a new leader emerges.

Lawson is a pretty impressive speaker I must say. I thought it most telling that he referred to the policies and ambitions of the EUcrats as "Theology" and seemed to think that he should add that they were not 'Wicked"

Darter Noster

You are making an lot of sense.

8 May 2013 at 12:24  
Blogger David Hussell said...

There are arguments both ways regarding the economic merits and demerits of being within the EU. But I note that many countries outside the EU trade freely and successfully with it, so why not us as well? The Germans will certainly want to continue selling their products to us.
However the deeper, more fundamental questions are firstly, whether we want to be a people, a nation or to become totally absorbed within a superstate; and secondly, who has the right to make our laws, democratically elected MPs at Westminster or the fake EU "Parliament" that takes its orders from unelected Commissioners?
I think that if we left, thereby ridding ourselves of the plethora of unnecessary regulations, small and medium businesses would flourish but, even if there was a risk of being a little poorer for a while, then that is a risk worth taking in order to become, once again, masters of our ship.

8 May 2013 at 13:38  
Blogger Albert said...

David H,

In the film Gandhi, Gandhi says that every people on earth would prefer bad government from their own people than good government from others. Similarly, in WWII we clearly chose freedom over prosperity. So even if all the economic and good governance arguments went in favour of an EU superstate (and clearly they don't), I think it is evident, we wouldn't join. A Common Market is one thing, but this is now something else.

An article in the Guardian said referenda always support the status quo. The trouble is that the status quo is actually fluid!

8 May 2013 at 13:59  
Blogger Darter Noster said...


Depends what you mean by 'freely and successfully'.

There is virtually nothing made in Britain which could not be sourced from elsehwere in the EU, but that is not the same the other way round. Because over the last 50 years we have allowed our imports to vastly outstrip our exports, most major industrial nations have us over a barrel when it comes to trade negotiations. We have to buy their goods; we have no choice and there is no other source, which means that they can charge pretty much what they like and we will have to pay it.

At the moment we are protected from this by the Common Market, but if we left all bets would be off. Look around your house, and your local shopping centre; almost nothing on sale there will be manufactured in Britain. Buses, trucks, cars, trains, fridges, freezers, hoovers, microwaves, kitchenware, crockery, cutlery, watches and clocks, toiletries, processed foods, clothing, stationery, paper, computer goods and electronics; we import all of these in vast quantities, and that is not going to stop because we leave the EU.

Do you remember in the 90s when all the whizz kids in politics and economics said that Britain did not need to manufacture all these things anymore, and could live on services alone? Well, they were talking utter bollocks. We are so dependent upon imported goods that countries exporting their products to us could double their prices, and we would have no choice but to keep buying them; the alternative would be to become a third world country.

What stops countries within the EU doing this to us is the Common Market. What stops countries without the EU doing this to us is the fact that they have to negotiate with the whole EU, and particularly the Germans, who even the Chinese can't afford to piss off.

If we left the Common Market, we would swiftly discover that we need goods from the rest of the world a lot more than the rest of the world needs goods from us. True, we have some world class manufacturing companies, and manufacture an awful lot of stuff, but nowhere near enough to cover our costs of living. We're skint; we live off vast levels of borrowing and imports which are kept cheap because we belong to the Common Market. Without the Common Market, we may well swiftly see the rest of the world's attitude towards us change from benevolent provider of cheap credit and imports to knee-breaking loan shark.

China trades successfully with the EU because the EU needs Chinese goods and vice versa; Britain would be closer to the position of the poorer countries who constantly get shafted with high tariffs on their exports and obligations to allow in imports to undercut local producers.

8 May 2013 at 14:33  
Blogger Peter D said...

There was a time when Royal courts employed fools not simply to amuse but to criticise their master or mistress and guests.

Jesters can give bad news to Kings that no one else dares deliver. In 1340, when the French fleet was destroyed at the Battle of Sluys by the English, Phillippe VI's jester told him the English sailors "don't even have the guts to jump into the water like our brave French"!

Lawson has delivered his message. Its a pity he and others didn't side with Margaret Thatcher in 1990.

8 May 2013 at 16:06  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Darter Noster,

Whilst I agree that we have left our manufacturing base run down dangerously low, I cannot follow your argument that importing goods, once we are outside the EU, would find us unable to negotiate sensible prices for those goods. It is not as if there is only one source for these products. A global market exists and the whole point of markets is that it allows you to negotiate the prices. We would play one supplier off against another, that is what the market mechanism does. Now there appears to be as many eminent economists and business people who accept your point as accept the one that I favour, so it is not totally clear, I accept that.

However, as Albert puts it, very simply and very effectively I think, it is always going to be preferable to be governed from an accessible, nationally based administration answerable at the ballot box to us, the people, than to a remote , unelected super state. Did we not struggle for almost a 1000 years to evolve national democracy ? The other path, the euro route, leads inexorably to forms of oppression if not downright tyranny of the sort that Greece and Cyprus are now tasting. Sorry but even if your economic arguments are right, which I do not accept, freedom and self determination are too precious to be taken away from us within two generations by a series of politicians who have been, putting it politely, economical with the truth regarding the intended destination of the european project.

8 May 2013 at 16:06  
Blogger John Wrake said...

I find it significant that so much of the argument against leaving the EU is purely economic. Are we so wedded to greed that nothing else matters?
Our membership of the EU was engineered by traitors, is contrary to our historic Constitution and as such, is unlawful.
A referendum is not needed to tell us what is lawful. Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights 1689, the Coronation Oath, the Act of Union are perfectly clear. It is time that they were implemented.
John Wrake

8 May 2013 at 16:26  
Blogger Darter Noster said...


Don't get me wrong - I'd vote to leave the EU tomorrow, for reasons of politics and freedom.

We should, however, be sufficiently clear that leaving the EU is not a rainbow with an economic pot of gold at the end of it; I fear that in their haste to make the case for independence many Eurosceptic politicians are far too sanguine about the economic difficulties we would face.

We would still be able to trade with Europe and the rest of the world, but it would be more difficult, and because we import so many essential items it would only take a tiny increase in the costs of importing to make a big difference to our costs of living. Because Britain lacks the trading clout of the EU as a whole, we would find it more difficult to keep a level playing field and secure favourable conditions.

Whenever politicians talk about this, they talk about where our exports will go; I'd be more worried about where our imports will come from, because whilst it would require a large increase or decrease in our exports to have much of an effect on our balance of trade, a tiny increase in the overall cost of imports could a) send our trade deficit noticeably higher, which in turn would increase our costs of borrowing and devalue the pound, making imports even more expensive, and b) knacker our remaining manufacturing industry, which depends on cheap imports of the components and raw materials which some genius thought it would be a good idea to stop producing in Britain. If our trade deficit rises by too much, confidence in Britain will evaporate, the cost of borrowing will rise, and we'll end up like Greece.

This isn't to say that we'd be doomed, but several things would need to be done. Firstly, we would need to re-nationalise electricity generation, and give the new state company a duty to keep energy prices as low as possible. Secondly, we would need to reform share trading laws to reward long-term investment in manufacturing industry, rather than the present situation in which the only interest traders have in British industrial stocks is flogging them as soon as possible. Thirdly, we would need to reform the take-over laws to stop foreign competitors sytematically annihilating British manufacturing by buying up companies only to shut them down and take the intellectual property and market share. Fourthly, we would have to increase the support available to SMEs and start-ups. Fifthly, we should reform the Treasury, the Bank of England and the system of teaching Economics and Business to ensure that in Britain, as in other countries, business does not only mean financial dealing.

You will note that most of those things could be done without leaving the EU; what worries me most is that, if we do leave the EU, we'll still be run by the same bunch of economic illiterates and spivvy share dealers who got us into this dreadful state in the first place.

8 May 2013 at 16:49  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

I think that the business case if quite clear (Martin Wolf wrote an interesting piece in today's FT about Germany and the rest of Europe btw).

I think that to apply the old adage if you owe a bank £1 that's your problem. Owe then a £1 million that's theirs. The same is the case with the EU. Germany and the other countries which have a trade surplus need to continue trading with us, in order to keep their countries afloat. One of the big matters in global politics at the moment is the 'savings glut' of Asia.

One of the additional factors often overlooked is that Asian countries, led by China, are producing huge amounts of cheap goods for consumption in the west and can compete due to much lower wages etc. So with the easily mass produced goods, which are cheap, they can be bought from Asia. Food can be brought from Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Germany does product manufactures on the 'high tech' end of the spectrum. So do we actually and given the great British combination of creativity and common sense, there is no reason why we can't still be 'up there' with other industrial countries- there are still a few non-financial and more importantly GLOBAL British players who do compete quite well, (e.g. BP, RR, GSK, Ineos,Diageo , BAE ,JCB, Jaguar Land Rover ).

Furthermore, we are now an export leader and manufacturer of motor cars, except that the ownership is not British, but Indian, German, American. But the jobs and creativity are distinctly British.

Our deficit is with the EU, not with the world. Because we have surrendered trade policy to the EU, is it any wonder that 50% of our trade goes there? Historically we are a global exporter, not a narrow European one. No surprise given the red tape, regulation and attempts at destroying our financial services industry, that the EU is now deeply unpopular (especially when it is clear that said bloc is run in the interests of one country- Germany, with France reduced to the sycophantic side-kick, grateful for whatever morsels Germany allows that country to have).

Germany wouldn't put up with the EU trashing its car industry and France it's vastly protected Agricultural market. So why do we allow them to trash the one thing we have in the medium term to keep us afloat (whilst we also change our economy from dependence on Oil and banking).

8 May 2013 at 17:04  
Blogger michael north said...

Albert @ 13.59

"Referenda support the status quo." That was true in 1975, when Wilson organised things so that the question was about staying in the Common Market, and those against(myself among them) had no chance against the "yes" campaign, which had people believing we would starve to death if we left.

I can't help feeling that vote was a symptom of a moral decay that had begun in the 1960s, with such things as the legalisation of abortion. Once you kid yourself that murder is all right, how can you make the right decisions in other matters?

8 May 2013 at 17:24  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

A couple of thoughts to your post at 1649:

1. Norway and Switzerland are tiny countries, which are very wealthy and are export led countries. Yet the are not in the EU. So much for the 'trading clout' of the EU.

2. There is a general shift towards unilateral trade deals, as the WTO trading deals get no-where.

3. The EU is getting older. Is it worth being in a club, which could implode under the vast costs of the pension liabilities, which even Germany will find it difficult to fund?

4. Re, sourcing imports. We are currently borrowing as a country as we are in a trade deficit. Being in the EU is not going to stop a sterling crisis, if people want to switch off the money market taps they will do so anyway.

5.Some of your plans for 'reform' would run foul of the single market and state aid rules. Now Germany and the rest ignore all of that, but the British seem to be dreadful sticklers for the rules. Look at what happened with Bombidier. The civil service was happy to give jobs to Germany and not support jobs here, because of narrow interpretations of these rules.

6. In respect of company takeovers and buy outs. This is part of the symptom of, rather than a problem itself. We actually need to have foreign companies take over or invest, because it helps to plug the gap in our trade balance mentioned in point 4.

7.I agree on the energy bit. Except that'd run foul of the EU. The French are a big 'investor' in our electricity market. I can see a few court cases if we tried that. Better in my opinion to build nuclear without the French. I am sure that RR can produce PWR for our subs, so why not civilian reactors as well?

8. We also pay for imports with 'invisible' earnings, such as banking fees, insurance premiums and income from historical overseas investments. Except that the EU is doing all it can to trash these financial services companies. Even those that were better run than the bailed out banks. Insurance wasn't even bailed out in this country.

All in all, I still think it is better to leave the EU, than be in it.

8 May 2013 at 17:29  
Blogger David Hussell said...


Thank you for those clarifications. I have no problem with any of that. Clearly it will not be easy economically to adjust to a newly sovereign position again, I accept that, and we will , as you say, need sound leadership. However just like the WW2 generation we should accept whatever it takes in order to reestablish a free position in the world once again. Our task will be immeasurably easier than theirs of course. But we do, I believe, possess as a people the creativity and pragmatism necessary to make a success of it, as we have in the past. It will also be a good opportunity to rebuild social cohesion, to include those new British citizens who have joined us recently; it will be their chance to prove their loyalty to the newly free nation. Fresh starts involve risk but also opportunity and excitement, do you not think?
The alternative option of national oblivion and the total loss of democratic accountability is not , in my opinion, a course of action even worth contemplating.

8 May 2013 at 17:35  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

There’s a thing Michael North. The Inspector was investigating the lax attitude to murder, and crime in general, only the other day.

Did you know that in the 1950s, England was awash with underworld guns. Officers in the war were obliged to purchase their own service revolvers as well as their uniforms. On leaving the branch of the armed service, they went home with both. Subsequent burglaries on their property led to an astonishing number of weapons on the streets. The judicial response was severe. An armed robber who did NOT discharge his weapon would get 12 years. Known in prison lag vernacular as a ‘stretch’. Surprisingly, during that decade, the number of murders did not increase in line with the number of firearms available to achieve them.

People rightly feared the law then. One cannot help but attributing that in part to the existence of capital punishment, and Home Secretaries not prepared to commute. “Let justice take its course” was what was written across the condemned man’s file. Perhaps one day we will see the same on convicted Islamic terrorists files. Even if caught before the crime...

8 May 2013 at 17:39  
Blogger Albert said...


You may be right about moral decline. However, I would point out that my parents voted for the Common Market back then. They are absolutely pro-life and against the other nonsense. The reason they voted for the Common Market was because they were (mis)led to believe it was a trading union, not a political power. They also looked at all the people who were opposed (the hard left) and concluded that if they were opposed, it must be a good thing!

In the end, our country has been radically changed by Europe and immigration, without democratic mandate and as result of less than honest politicians. You don't have to be opposed to either immigration or Europe to see how wrong that is. I think last week people made it clear they'd had enough. Whether that signals a return to a clearer moral vision, remains to be seen.

8 May 2013 at 17:40  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Hello Hannah,

Again, don't get me wrong - Britain has enormous industrial potential, given the right conditions and sensible governance. It never ceases to amaze me that we still manufacture as much as we do DESPITE the fact that those have been conspicuous by their absence for the last few decades, and if they had existed we could manufacture much more than we do.

I'm not trying to suggest that Britain would be plunged into immediate economic catastrophe if we left the EU, but I think we would face considerable challenges, including the need to cut public spending dramatically in certain areas and to channel much of what is left into creating the right conditions for productive industry.

Britain would need reforms on the scale of the 1980s, with commensurate upheaval, combined with sound economic judgement on the part of our politicians. That's where my worries begin, because I wouldn't trust Cameron, Clegg or Miliband (or much of the current and future political elite) to run a car boot sale, let alone preside over the rebuilding of Britain's industrial base.

One of the reasons our trade deficit is so great is that in losing so much manufacturing over the years, (particularly during the 1990s and 2000s, not the 80s as many claim) we lost much of the industrial base that supplied our high-tec, high value-added manufacturing. So, for any given British-made product, large amounts of the final value have been imported. Rebuilding that industrial base will take large amounts of capital investment, and that will have to come from a Government which is already skint.

Britain could, with hard work and tough decisions, thrive outside the EU, but it will require political, economic and industrial acumen from the same people who have made such a complete cluster-f*** of industrial strategy for the past 50 years. Again, that's where my fears lie; I still support Britain leaving the EU, I just don't agree with the predictions of many Eurosceptic politicians that doing so will unleash an immediate economic golden age.

8 May 2013 at 17:41  
Blogger Jon said...

Darter - public spending doesn't create productive industry, business does. Your corporatist mentality would see tax payers' money funnelled to chosen industrialists to spank on their chosen vanity projects, crowding out private investment and genuine enterprise. You're just replacing one giant (EU) bureaucracy, with a British equivalent - both of whom have a terrible track record of industrial policy.

Your stuff about supply chains is nonsense too. China relies upon supply chains which stretch around the world - it's one of the reason their businesses are busy acquiring oil and mineral fields around the world. Large amount of every product is made elsewhere from where it's finished - Britain is by no means unique in its length supply chains. This strengthens China's arm in trade negotiations because in buying and selling both parties benefit - China worries about loss of access to raw materials through local politics rather than whether Vietnam will stop shipping parts for GM cars assembled there.

I don't want Britain to have an industrial strategy, I want Britain to have a growth strategy, and that means unleashing businesses to do what they think is in the interests of their shareholders, and letting ones who make bad decisions fail. Good ones will thrive. Corporatism and crony capitalism have gobbled up resources which could better have been used by smaller businesses.

8 May 2013 at 17:59  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

Oh, I wasn't trying to misrepresent you or get you wrong. I agree with the general thrust of your concern, but frankly speaking, sometimes a crisis stops drift and forces us to go in a better direction. I think standing on our own two feet is worth the risk.

And as an aside, Germany is only rich in the natural resource of coal and therefore has to import quite a lot (crude, gas, iron)for her steel, chemicals, motor industries etc. So if Germany can source these vital materials and then still change them into products, then there is no reason why we cannot, if forced to do so.

8 May 2013 at 18:16  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Hello again Hannah,

On those specific points;

It's not being in the EU per se that has led to so much decline in British industry, but the same political idiocy we'll be stuck with on the outside. Norway has a considerably smaller population than we do, is still a large net exporter of gas, and is also dripping with cheap hydro electric power, making their energy costs a fraction of ours and industry highly competitive.

Unilateral trade deals are a lot easier if you export lots of things that the country you're dealing with desperately wants and needs. If Britain tried to play hard ball with China in unilateral trade negotiations, they'd be wetting themselves laughing from Tibet to Manchuria. Remember when the Chinese Premier toured Europe a while back? The trade deals Britain secured, which had Cameron and Osborne falling over themselves in rapture, were worth less than 10% of those secured by Germany. That's how much the Chinese need our porducts.

Yes, rebuilding Britain's industrial base, including re-acquiring the power generation facilities which should never have been flogged off in the first place to provide competitive energy, will have the French and Germans screaming about the 'state aid' which the French in particular have happily been supplying their own industries with for years. What worries me is not leaving the EU and telling them to sod their state aid rules, but the fact that the people responsible for British industrial policy are largely useless, in the EU or out of it. Also, if we did go about using state aid to rebuild Britain's industrial base (the only way it could be done), the French in particular would press for EU trade penalties in response.

For the nuclear programme, we'd be far better off creating a British nuclear power authority to do it, and funding it with Government-raised capital, than this half-arsed deal with EDF. We'd also have been a lot better off if Gordon Brown hadn't flogged Westinghouse to the Japanese, from whom we now have to buy reactors instead of making them ourselves, and if Osborne hadn't canclled the loan to Sheffield Forgemasters to make it one of the few places in the world able to forge Nuclear Reactor components. Oh and the Government is about to sell Britain's share in Urenco, the highly profitable uranium processing firm with two plants in Britain, to the French-governmwnt owned Areva, who will immediately shut down the British plants and move the production to France. You couldn't make it up.

Re Take-overs. We need some but not others. for example, in the early 1990s GEC was Britain's biggest engineering company, making, amongst other things, a world leading range of steam turbines for power generation from their plant at Rugby. They were taken over by the French company Alstom, in a deal which the French government would never have allowed. Alstom systematically shut down every GEC manufacturing facility in Britain. Alstom now manufactures nothing - nada, zero, zip, zilch - in Britain. The steam turbines are made in France. Neither France, nor Germany, nor any other country on earth, would have allowed their biggest engineering company to be systematically destroyed by its biggest competitor, and neither should we.

8 May 2013 at 18:20  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

I can also agree with the sentiment behind Jon's post too. I'd only say there is a real need to break up the hideous nationalised banks and speed up the creation of new ones

. I think the old fractional reserve banking model is a disaster waiting to happen, but there are ways around that, even possibly ignoring the broker model of banks or getting back to traditional 'merchant' banking for businesses.

If the greedy city people want to turn banks into giant hedge or private equity firms, fine. But not with my money or crony capitalist banks who know they will be saved because of being too big to fail.

8 May 2013 at 18:22  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

I can agree on the nuclear power side, given that EDF are asking for a big premium on the megawatt per hour and the cost of building said reactors will doubtless fall on the taxpayer. As noted Rolls Royce can build reactors for submarines, so why not give them £14 billion, rather than the French government?

In respect of the 'asset stripping'. Alas all part of capitalism. You might note that France is a stagnating economic country anyway, with quite a few French people now living in South Kensington, trying to escape 80% income taxes etc and despite her economic nationalism and government funding, they are hardly a model to follow.

In respect of China, I think it is more of history that needs to be overcome. The collective memories of colonialism, opium wars and the boxer rebellion is still fresh in the Chinese mindset (and Cameron's decision to meet with the Deli Lama). So mending bridges and doing deals might be a better way forward.

8 May 2013 at 18:40  
Blogger Darter Noster said...


I'm not corporatist in the slightest. I believe in public ownership of energy generation for one simple reason; manufacturing industry needs abundant cheap energy to survive and thrive, a situation which is antithetical to private companies producing energy for profit.

Neither is the stuff about supply chains nonsense. Given the choice of siting a factory in Germany, where most of your supplies are a short lorry drive away, or Britain, where you have to bring much of what you need in from overseas, which would you choose? In the absence of significant other pull factors it's a no-brainer. Reliable local suppliers are very important for business.

All I want the state to do is to create the conditions for business to thrive, not to subsidise failing businesses or to pick winners, as you suggest I do. Far too often the British Government, in the name of "getting out of the way", has left British industry to flounder where other countries have provided a helping hand.

8 May 2013 at 18:44  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Just me (before I go to the gym). One final thought. I know it is terrible to watch people being unemployed by asset strippers, but in the case of the engineering firm, it is a pity that we didn't have more incentives to allow the unemployed skilled workers to set up their own firm to compete. That is what we should be doing.

Lowering corporate tax to a much lower rate (say 15%), with a threashold of £10 million turnover, having merchant banks being part of the solution, would be a start.

8 May 2013 at 18:48  
Blogger michael north said...

Albert @ 17.40

I am always sorry to hear of good people being duped, but the pro-Common Market lobby (mostly the government) vastly outgunned the opposition in resources,

The "hard left" were against the CM, but so were people like Enoch Powell, who left the Conservative party over this issue.(I have been reading speeches he made nearly half a century ago, and am stunned by his prescience.)

I suspect that many voters of the time failed to listen to him because of the abuse and misrepresentation he incurred from what we now call the MSM and, worst of all, his own party. David Cameron is the bastard offspring of Ted Heath.

8 May 2013 at 19:01  
Blogger Albert said...


I think it's fair to say my parents feel pretty sick about having voted for it, too!

8 May 2013 at 19:32  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

The EU is a front for Germany and France to destroy our country. Germany is batman and France Robin. The two bounders cannot be trusted. Germany is using Euros rather than tanks, but the effect is still to dominate and impose their view of Europe on the rest of us.

Well, not for this chap!

Better to be free than slaves to the EU!

8 May 2013 at 19:33  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

And Farage is at least one of the few politicians who likes a good pint of British beer and not ashamed of it!

What more can one say? And I like his speeches in the Reichstag against Barabas and Van Humpty Dumpty!

And Lord Lawson is of course a respected commentator. His daughter should take up the family mantle, who would not vote for a Farage/Nigella running ticket?

8 May 2013 at 19:36  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8 May 2013 at 19:59  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

I do wish we'd stop this collective bashing of the UK. Crickey, this country has existed (as Johnny Rotty pointed out) since the ice age. Or to a mainstream historian since 1707.

This country was the leader in the industrial revolution and has brought so many benefits to the world. Why all the negative now? British people are still the same old, same old, industrious people.

The problem is that we've been taken over by the 'guardian mentality' of always putting Britain down, or in a negative fashion or thinking like Darter, that we can't survive unless we suckle on the EU teat.

Other posters -


I agree with the Merchant Banks, which used to take equity stakes rather than loans with companies. That would be in line with Jewish practice.


I think there is nothing we can do about the asset stripping. We can stop the 'brain drain' of qualified people. If businessmen (such as myself) were let off like greyhounds from their traps, we'd be much better off.

I think cutting the red tape, letting small biz be exempted from the Euro Balls of uber regulation and a reduction in NI and corporate taxes would do the trick. We'd pay for that, by being able to employ people on a decent wage.

Lord Lavendon,

I agree I'd vote for the beautiful (albeit atheist) Jewish babe Nigella Lawson for PM. Farage would have to be Deputy PM, with our very own Avi Barzel as Energy & climate change Secretary. Rachel Weisz as Foreign Secretary and her husband (Mr Bond) as Home Secretary; possibly Carl Jacobs for Defence Secretary. A winning electoral 'ticket' if ever there was one.

8 May 2013 at 20:03  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

David K,

I'm not bashing British industry; as I said earlier, given the political climate it's a tribute to British industry that it's doing so well. It's the politicians I don't rate, and given their track record with manufacturing industry over the decades, I feel pretty justified in doing so.

The point I'm trying to make is that Britain's industrial base and range of manufacturing competencies has been allowed to shrink to the point where the massive increase in manufacturing exports which political consensus says we need (after 20 years of saying the exact opposite) is not going to be possible without massive capital investment (unlikely to come from the private sector at present) and thoroughly competent economic policies geared around manufacturing, rather than the City and finance (important though they are).

If we are to leave the EU, as I hope we are, it is even more imperative that we safeguard and promote our manufacturing industry, and stop with the baffling and incompetent, if not downright destructive, industrial policy of the last 20 years.

What is so controversial about that? :o)

8 May 2013 at 20:18  
Blogger david kavanagh said...


Nothing wrong or controversial in what you've written. The posts are simply an 'agree to disagree' with some of the specifics - among internet friends. That's all. Relax. Get a beer. Read your Bible. What the apprentice. If I really disagreed with you all told I wouldn't be 'engaging' you (so to speak).

8 May 2013 at 21:19  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi darter, i can respect your pov, even if i disagree with some of it:)!

8 May 2013 at 21:20  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Of course i think we are better off outside the eu:)

8 May 2013 at 21:24  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

PS- I have to admit breaking out of the EU is a difficult thing to do. But not impossible. I think any country which can produce Nelson, Shakespeare, Dickins and the rest, can survive out of the EU.

8 May 2013 at 21:25  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi david thats sooo right:)

8 May 2013 at 21:28  
Blogger david kavanagh said...


The EU has got to the stage where it is run in the interest of one country. clearly time to bail now.

8 May 2013 at 21:29  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


"You will note that most of those things could be done without leaving the EU; what worries me most is that, if we do leave the EU, we'll still be run by the same bunch of economic illiterates and spivvy share dealers who got us into this dreadful state in the first place."

Nail on the Head.


8 May 2013 at 21:38  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


I do a lot of work in Germany and have lived there for 14 years.

Everything they do is geared and organized to the benefit of Germany and German firms.

Take overs like the GEC one would not happen unless it benefited Germany in the longer term.

We could learn such a lot from them.

If we sent people to study Germany and German methods of organising their country for the benefit of Germans...... would they come back?


8 May 2013 at 21:46  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Not to worry Kavanaghs both :o) I'm curious as to the reasons for disagreement, rather than offended by its existence :o)

Btw, am I right in thinking you two are related, or have I just imagined that? :o)

8 May 2013 at 21:48  
Blogger Darter Noster said...


Personally, I think the best things we could learn from the Germans are 1) to value our engineers - when German kids picture engineers, they see well-paid and respected industrialists rather than people who work in Kwik-Fit or service gas boilers 2) to stop seeing 'business' as being all about services, particularly financial ones. 3) to value long-term investment in manufacturing companies, rather than having share ownership predominantly in the hands of Hedge Fund managers whose sole concern is to turn the fastest possible profit by selling quickly. One reason why the German Mittelstand is so successful is that lots of companies are family owned, with the incentive being to develop the company rather than sell out to a competitor for a quick profit.

I can see why a British engineering graduate interested in manufacturing industry might be tempted to move to Germany.

8 May 2013 at 22:11  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

David is my big bro, altogether I've got 3 brothers and 3 sisters (one of which is my twin) and quite a few cousins and first cousins twice removed etc. Our mum, was a Jew from Iraq and my dad of Anglo-Irish Protestant descent (although he converted to Judaism).

8 May 2013 at 22:45  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Darter Noster 20:18
“If we are to leave the EU, as I hope we are, it is even more imperative that we safeguard and promote our manufacturing industry, and stop with the baffling and incompetent, if not downright destructive, industrial policy of the last 20 years.”

We have always allowed our inventions to be stolen, taken or we have even given the technology data away to the competition!!!
There was something in the Queens speech about more protections for intellectual property. I think there should be a universal patent for intellectual property. Trevor Baylis is campaigning for this and it's a good idea.

Where Britain also falls down a bit is after inventing something really great we tend to sit back on our laurels where we should be working on upgrades and modifications of improvement for a mark 2 and 3 and so on as well as a new other product so that not all the eggs are in one basket.

8 May 2013 at 22:49  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

The dispute is that you advocate a Britain within the EU. We don't. If we stay in the EU, the national anthem (to the tune of G-d save the Queen) will be :

Heil dir im Siegerkranz
Herrscher des Vaterlands!
Heil, König, dir!
Fühl in des Thrones Glanz
die hohe Wonne ganz
Liebling des Volks zu sein!
Heil, König Dir!

Nicht Roß und Reisige
sichern die steile Höh
wo Fürsten stehn;
Liebe des Vaterlands
Liebe des freien Manns
gründet den Herrscherthron
wie Fels im Meer

Heilige Flamme, glüh
glüh' und erlösche nie
fürs Vaterland!
Wir alle stehen dann
mutig für einen Mann
kämpfen und bluten gern
für Thron und Reich!

Handlung und Wissenschaft
hebe mit Mut und Kraft
ihr Haupt empor!
Krieger und Heldentat
finde ihr Lorbeerblatt
treu aufgehoben
an deinem Thron

Sei, Kaiser Merkel, hier
lang deines Volkes Zier
der Menschheit Stolz!
Fühl in des Thrones Glanz
die hohe Wonne ganz
Liebling des Volks zu sein!
Heil, Kaiser Merkel Dir!

8 May 2013 at 23:08  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Phil a lot of the Germans especially those in middle Germany and the North look down upon the British no matter what class with the exception of royalty of course. You poor English they call us.
They enjoy parading in public what they have in material wealth and letting everyone know how important they all are because they have worked hard and can afford such and such and have buuilt their own houses although most live in rented flats. I found them rather pompous and exhaustingly regimented, it's one thing to have all the public transport co-ordinated and running on time to the second, but this spills over into all other areas of their lives too. The German temperament is the exact opposite of the countries in the southern half of the EU therefore, they will never be able to merge amicably into the EU superstate the Germans so desire. So I bet those students would chose to come back to UK on completion of their course. I admire you 14 years is a long time.

8 May 2013 at 23:15  
Blogger Jack Sprat said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8 May 2013 at 23:17  
Blogger david kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8 May 2013 at 23:45  
Blogger david kavanagh said...


I would also add that it sickens me- no actually it really, really hacks me off to a point of being totally deranged is that to think that Germany was 'forgiven' for some of the worst atrocities ever committed on the face of this planet and yet now the German government (and people) are unable to forgive the 'paper' debts -for that is all that is at issue here, not 'life or death' cures for cancer or whatever (loaned via German banks) to the Southern European states and Ireland, for nothing other than commercial reasons or to prevent them from having to bail out their banking system. It is as if forgiveness is entirely a one sided affair.

'Thev wilt pay the money or face the consquences'. The Euro. Bailouts/bail-ins. Bailing out Irish banks, because Germany was the biggest creditor to said banks, despite the social consequences. The same for Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain.

Taking depositor money in Cyprus because it is 'Russian', despite the fact that ordinary Cypriots are the real loosers. That is imperialism by another name, except it is far better and cheaper than using the Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht and the SS.

Only in the EU could a 'bailout' be constructed as loaning to governments at penal rates and leaving people with an ever increasing debt load which they will never be able to pay back. And in the history of Europe Jews were called out as being usurious!

Except I thought a key part of Christian Europe- I assume Germany still claims to be Christian?- was :

"Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

So when Christians pontificate here about the 'sins' and 'wickedness' of gays, I have to say that there seems to be something equally wicked and sinful in making several million people loose their jobs, get reprocessed and other social ills for the sake of a 'single currency'. Or more realistically for the sake of Northern European (especially German) creditor states.

Anyway. Big rant over and done with. Glad I got that off my chest.

8 May 2013 at 23:52  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

@ David. You say "The EU has got to the stage where it is run in the interest of one country."
And what country is that? Romania? Apparently the POW has a little hide-out there to enjoy solitude. He will have even more solitude come 2014. But the heritage seeds he loves so much will soon be banned by the EU.
It was always time to leave, even before we went in.

8 May 2013 at 23:54  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

BTW, Hannah, I like your advice above so much - can I quote it somewhere?

8 May 2013 at 23:55  
Blogger david kavanagh said...


"And what country is that?"

Germany. It used to be Germany and France, but the romance has worn off. I like the French actually (as one of my sister in Law's is a French Jew from Morocco).

8 May 2013 at 23:57  
Blogger Julia Gasper said...

I find what Marie says extraordinary. I have never met a German who looks down on the English or is smug about their bigger car or bigger fridge. The ones I meet speak good English or French or both, enjoy Allo Allo and Dad's Army, and are just appalled by the way that they are now bailing out SPIG.

9 May 2013 at 00:00  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Julia,

Which bit would that be? OK, I don't mind you quoting me, providing it isn't out or context or likely to lead to legal stuff or whatever. I am surprised you'd like the view of a gay Orthodox Sephardi Jew.... but miracles do happen, I guess (!).

9 May 2013 at 00:12  
Blogger Naomi King said...

The EU hates UKIP!

Money-printing scam at taxpayer expense - Godfrey Bloom MEP UKIP in the European Parliament.

9 May 2013 at 08:04  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Hi Hannah,

"The dispute is that you advocate a Britain within the EU."

Nooooooooooooo! I don't, I really don't! I want us out of the EU asap for a wide variety of reasons: freedom, independence, control of our own laws and borders, etc. etc. :o)

I just think that leaving the EU will come with considerable economic costs, as well as opportunities, which Euroscpetics should be honest about.

Some Eurosceptic politicians are acting like Wee Eck and the Scots Nats - every problem Britain has can be solved by leaving the EU, and if only we get out the economy will boom, the public sector will shrink, immigration will fall, cheery bobbies will walk the beat, children will start calling adults sir, England will win the World Cup and King Arthur will return to reign over a new Camelot.

Sadly, it's not likely to be like that, not least because once we've got out of the EU, we'll still be stuck with the same idiots in Westminster.

When I worked in the European Parliament some years back, it was remarkable how often British politicians would blame the EU for one colossal blunder or another and claim there was nothing they could do about it; when you delved a bit deeper into what had actually happened, you saw that the British Government and/or civil service were almost always between half and fully responsible for the cock up. Politicians love the EU because they can blame it for their own mistakes.

9 May 2013 at 08:56  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9 May 2013 at 11:57  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Thanks YG :o)

9 May 2013 at 12:19  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


I don't know about being looked down on in Germany for being British.

I have never felt it.

However, I lived in China and HK before Germany so perhaps I became rather thick skinned to being looked down upon!

Before I go. Every town seems to have its industry and everyone seems proud to be in work no matter what they do.

However, they do not work weekends (never Sundays -- in fact the fine for moving the lawn on a Sunday was up to Euro 60000-- Sundays are quiet!) or evenings and take care to protect their their leisure time.

Another reason for their success?


9 May 2013 at 12:25  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Darter,

OK point accepted then. Let's not get on the subject of the EU Parliament 'gravy train' (lol!).

9 May 2013 at 16:03  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Phil and Julia,
I wasn't speaking purely from a personal level but from what I have observed from the outside looking in as well.
I would attribute the Germans' success to sheer determination and the arrogance and confidence of the knowledge that they are the richest country in Europe and better than everybody else, they tend to build things that last as well as for purpose. Their regimented lifestyles with overbearing amounts of rules and regulations and the good, broad education system they have. They are more hard boiled, bossy and authoritarian than the soft touch Brit. Their smugness surfaces over time whether in jest or when serious business decisions are made such as who to award a contract to.

9 May 2013 at 23:39  
Blogger Naomi King said...

This is from the American National Organisation for Marriage briefing this morning...

In Great Britain, David Cameron's push for gay marriage has left his Conservative party in electoral tatters, as local elections this week proved. (From the Iron Lady to the Rubber Man in just two decades!)

10 May 2013 at 07:47  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Those who sat in darkness and in the shadow of death, 
bound in affliction and irons—
Because they rebelled against the words of God, 
and despised the counsel of the Most High,
Therefore He brought down their heart with labor; 
they fell down, and there was none to help.
Then they cried out to the Lord in their trouble, 
and He saved them out of their distresses.
He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, 
and broke their chains in pieces.
Oh, that this man would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness, 
and for His wonderful works to the children of men!
For He has broken the gates of bronze, 
and cut the bars of iron in two.

The way of salvation is clear even in the Old Testament: God’s grace is through faith.


10 May 2013 at 07:51  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


" Their regimented lifestyles with overbearing amounts of rules and regulations

They are more hard boiled, bossy and authoritarian than the soft touch Brit"

Wrong on all counts Marie

Bank staff and teachers all in jeans, invariably laughing and relaxed.

Banks and Post Offices not behind bullet proof glass. A people who still say hello in he street even in the city to strangers and if you strike up a conversation will chat to you and spend time with you.

However, the main difference? A country where if a crime is committed, the police arrive within min and something always happens.

Pedophiles and other "dangers to society" are not released after their sentence, if they are still deemed a risk to society.

Result, except from the certain parts of a very few cities it is safe for women to walk late at night everywhere.

THE biggest difference?

People are still nice to each other in Germany. Reminds me of the UK when I was younger or parts of rural Wales now.


10 May 2013 at 18:38  
Blogger Peter D said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10 May 2013 at 20:05  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Kenneth Clarke gives us another reason to support UKIP-annoying him.

He is responsible for wasting billions of pounds through the endless process of NHS reorganisation he began in 1990. Since then there has been a managerial reorganisation every 5 years driving doctors nuts as managers play musical desks. Ask your GP.

Clarke did to the NHS what Gordon Brown did to our gold reserves and deserves similar opprobrium.

10 May 2013 at 22:08  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

If it's so marvellous Phill I take it you still live there then and if not why not?

11 May 2013 at 01:40  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


I have a house in Wales (Near the sea) and a house in Germany

Best of both worlds


11 May 2013 at 10:01  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Send in the Clowns (Des Lynam Ukip remix 2013)

We used to be rich
Now we are not
But here at last there's a chance
To stop all the rot
Send in the Clowns.

Isn't it bliss
Don't you approve
They just kept tearing around
But they wouldn't move
We need the Clowns …
Send in the Clowns.

They'd never stopped
Opening our doors
Now you are learning
The vote that we wanted was yours

We'll make our entrance again
With unusual flair
Sure of our lines
We'll be right there

We've had the farce
Their fault I fear
We know that you want what we want
No need to fear
They call us the Clowns …
So send in the Clowns…
And give us a cheer

What a surprise
Who could have thought
You'd come to feel about things
We felt you ought

Only now they will see
You've drifted our way
No surprise now
It's no cliche

Now they have fear
They've lost their timing this late
In their careers…
And where are the clowns …
Quick, send in the clowns …
Don't bother we're here.

11 May 2013 at 10:30  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Des Lynam endorses Ukip ... in song!

Nigel Farage welcomes endorsement after the face of 1980s TV sports rewrote lyrics to "Send in the Clowns"

Matthew Taylor, Friday 10 May 2013 13.44 BST

Des Lynam, the one-time face of TV sports, and now, maybe, the musical maestro behind Ukip.

Former television sports presenter Des Lynam has endorsed the UK Independence party, revealing that he voted for Nigel Farage's organisation in last week's local elections.

Ukip said that Lynam, the face of television sport during the 1980s, sent the party rewritten lyrics to Send in the Clowns, mocking Conservative critics who lambasted Ukip as a bunch of fruitcakes, loonies, waifs and strays.

In a press release put out by Ukip on Friday, Lynam is quoted as saying: "I was delighted to cast my vote for Nigel Farage's team in Sussex where I live. I feel they have something to offer the country as a whole, and Sussex."

Farage, whose party won 25%of the vote in seats it contested in last week's election, said: "I am delighted to welcome Des's support in these elections. And thank him for his rewrite of the lyrics of Send in the Clowns which we are planning to sing at our south-east conference on 8 June."

11 May 2013 at 10:35  
Blogger Naomi King said...

And more good news for UKIP this week ...

The UK Independence Party (Ukip) continued its winning streak after last week's county polls, this week taking a seat from the Tories in the latest council by-elections and coming second in two Labour ones.

The Conservatives also trailed Labour by a huge 20.1 per cent in a nationwide projected lead based on all four contests.

Rozanne Duncan took her party from nowhere to gain at Cliftonville East in Thanet District.

Ukip had won a Kent county seat in the much larger Ramsgate and Cliftonville division last week.

Labour won landslides in Longbridge, Barking and Dagenham Borough in east London, and Alexandra in Oldham Borough.

The Tory vote collapsed at Alexandra from second place last May to fourth with just 80 votes.

Conservatives returned councillors in Longbridge only 11 years ago.

They did however manage a big swing from Labour in Leicester's Abbey ward.

In the three wards it fought, Ukip averaged 26.2 per cent - up on 23 per cent calculated in a BBC survey of last week's polls.

Ukip gains again as Tories slump in latest by-elections - again.

11 May 2013 at 10:38  
Blogger Naomi King said...

"Disgruntlement in the Tory ranks" ... From the influential Conservative Home website this morning.

"Claims that ten Tory MPs have been in talks with Ukip

"UKIP has engaged in 'serious' talks with ten Tory MPs about the possibility of defecting, the party said yesterday. ... The Eurosceptic party won 147 seats in this month’s local elections, prompting a Conservative backbencher to make contact in the past few days, UKIP’s new chief executive said." - The Times (£)"

11 May 2013 at 10:41  
Blogger Naomi King said...

11 May 2013 at 10:43  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

For the record, I did actually visit Germany as a student and enjoyed the German hospitality, as I was in Bavaria, they had the sing song German accent, rather than 'yut wilt oboooey ooorders' of the Prussian North.

It was just after Yom Kippur, so they had their beer festival about then. And I did 'when in Rome', but that is the last time anyone gets me in tight leather shorts and hat, with a bird's feather in it...

11 May 2013 at 23:28  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

It was a conversation killer at first when I said I wasn't an Arabien, but a Jude..."C'est la vie" as they say.... but I think Germany is thankfully a different place now, in part due to the fact we gave the 'basic laws' and Parliamentary Democracy and a liberal outlook to Germany..

11 May 2013 at 23:34  

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