Sunday, June 09, 2013

Salisbury's MP preaches truth to Salisbury's Bishop



The Bishop of Salisbury, The Right Reverend Nicholas Holtam, wrote recently to Lord Alli of Norbury, who requested that the Bishop clarify his position on the issue of same-sex marriage as a member of the House of Bishops for members of the Upper House. He did so, explaining his belief that marriage is simply a matter of 'stable, faithful, adult, loving' relationships, and that those Christians who opposed the concept of same-sex marriage are like those in ages past who supported slavery and Apartheid - ie, wrong theologically, exegetically and morally.

The MP for Salisbury is John Glen, and he has replied to the Bishop:
SIR – I was deeply saddened to learn of Bishop Holtam’s letter (May 30). Bishop Holtam is a well-intentioned churchman who has done much for deprived communities in London during his career.

However, his apparent attempt to place those Christians who seek to uphold traditional marriage in the same category as those who defended Apartheid and slavery is deeply unhelpful. It will be particularly offensive to those in black majority churches who do not share his view.

If the Bishop reflects on his visit to the thriving St Paul’s congregation in Salisbury, or the recent Prayer Market event involving eight churches at which I spoke, he would understand that these growing congregations object to gay marriage not because they object to homosexuals, but because they believe marriage should follow the biblical pattern affirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19.

To redefine the institution of marriage will not remove prejudice, but instead risk legal ambiguities and unnecessarily provoke a sense of resentment and isolation among very many Christians.

If today’s church leaders follow Bishop Nicholas, and allow public opinion to define what they preach, I fear the decline in some parts of the Church of England will be terminal.

John Glen MP (Con)
Member of Parliament for Salisbury
London SW1
"It’s interesting," said Sir Humphrey, "that nowadays politicians want to talk about moral issues, and bishops want to talk politics."

67 Comments:

Blogger Martin said...

It is quite clear that the bishops have abandoned Scriptural teaching and sought to preserve the status quo in the Lords, even at the cost of betraying Christ.

They are not in their positions to follow what the people want but to proclaim the righteousness of God's Word, to say what should be done.

It seems to me that they have given up their birthright for a stew of sin and privilege.

9 June 2013 at 10:07  
Blogger William Lewis said...

Excellent letter from John Glen MP.

UKIP is at your disposal Sir.

9 June 2013 at 10:10  
Blogger Bob said...

Your Grace,

The whole issue of gay marriage is illusory, an arbitrary and non-existent division imposed by the organising nature of our minds. If only people could dwell on the fact that humans are all one family...that is what matters. Maybe one day the world will understand.

O snail
climb Mt. Fuji
but slowly, slowly!

:)

Peace.

9 June 2013 at 10:21  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

@ Bob

"...an arbitrary and non-existent division imposed by the organising nature of our minds."

Why we should never uncritically trust our minds to organise the world correctly.

9 June 2013 at 10:40  
Blogger LEN said...

Clearly some within the church particularly in positions of authority are there purely as a 'career move' and have no interest in the integrity of Scripture and less interest in the Gospel or the motives and intentions of God.

Those shepherds who are 'hirelings' will desert the flock to follow their own interests unlike the Great Shepherd Jesus Christ who gave His Life for the flock.
Only follow the True Shepherd and leave these 'hirelings' to their own devices because they will lead their 'sheep' onto the broad path that leads to destruction.
It is to the credit of John Glen MP that he has a greater understanding of the role of the church than some of those within it!.

9 June 2013 at 10:40  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9 June 2013 at 10:43  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

The matter should never have been taken to Parliament. It should have been in the form of petition from the homosexual lobbies to the General Synnod/Vatican etc etc.

I don't see it at all as an 'equality' issue when we already have introduced legitimate civil partner status. I'm sick to death of reading about SSM/The Church/Parliament - its all bollocks compared to what is going on and what we need to be deliberating on in the real world.

It is a Church/religious issue first and last.

9 June 2013 at 10:49  
Blogger LEN said...

If our Government is pursuing agendas which it has no mandate for it should concern all thinking people?.

9 June 2013 at 10:58  
Blogger Bob said...

Thank you seanrobsville, that's an interesting and insightful link.

:)

Peace.

9 June 2013 at 11:24  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Anyone know the e-address of this Judas priest. A fellow has a mind to jolly well put him right !

9 June 2013 at 11:43  
Blogger Albert said...

Excellent letter - well done the MP. The bishop's comments were not just offensive, but theologically and historically illiterate. The fact that Canterbury did not respond except to commend Salisbury's comments as "welcome" does not bode well. Why does it fall to an MP to make these kinds of remarks?

9 June 2013 at 12:49  
Blogger bluedog said...

Bob

The sun always shines behind the clouds over Mt Fuji.

Now to change a tyre on my Honda motorcycle.

:)

Hommmmm

9 June 2013 at 12:58  
Blogger Nick said...

How refreshing to have an MP correcting a bishop on an issue of Christian faith! Well done Mr Glen. I hope and pray there will be more like you!

It is true that if we let secular society re-write the scriptures for us then we might as well give up and join the ranks of the godless. The bishop's interpretation of the Bible over SSM is as suspect as that of those (few) Christians who used their corrupt interpretations to justify the evils of slavery and apartheid.

At the very least, the AoC should tell Mr Holtham to retract his insult to his flock. If he refuses, he should consider spending more time with his family.

9 June 2013 at 12:59  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Well said John Glen.
I am one of those traditional Anglicans who are exceedingly tired of these world conforming anti-Christian "Bishops" who ignore the clear Word of God, The Traditions handed down to us and the evidence of science. It will not go well with them, I suspect, when they are before The Judgement Throne of God. There is no gene for same sex attraction, but they continue with their politically motivated spin. These are very trying times for the faithful.

9 June 2013 at 13:57  
Blogger David Hussell said...

On a more positive note I am happy to say that the Ukip SE Regional Conference yesterday was full to overflowing and included a good number of young supporters and activists. More and more are joining from many sources, but especially Labour , as it becomes a national party, not just one for aging, tweedy retired half-Colonels. There is a real a feeling of determination to break free and begin the cycle of national rebirth.
Mr John Glen, you would be welcome.
Off to lead another service now.

9 June 2013 at 14:13  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Remember polygamy is still practiced in Africa and there are some Africans who justify it on biblical grounds so I wouldn't be too quick to talk about black churches.

9 June 2013 at 14:17  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Having read about John Glen on his web and Wiki, John is my knid of Conservative, not the type that controls the party now.

9 June 2013 at 14:21  
Blogger Manfarang said...

David Hussell
Your services were about miracles no doubt.

9 June 2013 at 14:24  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Having read about John Glen on his web and Wiki, John is my knid of Conservative, not the type that controls the party now.

9 June 2013 at 14:25  
Blogger Maccus Curia said...

'Tis a strange situation when Christian ministers deny scripture and justify sin.

Did God really mean what we heard to him say - or what others tell us he meant? Could he really damn us for this?

t's a process as old as time itself:

Now the serpent was more subtle than any of the beasts of the earth which the Lord God had made.

And he said to the bishop:

"Why hath God commanded you, that a man should not have sex with another man? Are you sure this is what he meant or has someone else told you this? Its a bit of an old fashioned view in a modern world."

And the bishop answered him, saying:

"The long held understanding of the Bible tells us this - that an must not have sex with man, or woman with woman. Death perhaps awaits those who do this."

And the serpent said to the bishop:

"No, you shall not die the death. This is a misreading of scripture, surely? love is love and God is love.

And the bishop saw that the man was good to taste of, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold .....

9 June 2013 at 15:28  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

^ Isn't that you, Dodo?

9 June 2013 at 15:37  
Blogger Maccus Curia said...

Yes, its me, DanJ0. Well spotted. You have clearly been visiting my blog where my different 'characters' are all on display.

Once again forgot to switch avitars; you know what I'm like after a few beers. I really couldn't be bothered deleting and reposting it. You know how it is when one has different identities on different weblogs.

9 June 2013 at 16:32  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Well said Your Grace. We prayed at Church this morning that + Nicholas be saved, now that would be the thing.

9 June 2013 at 17:05  
Blogger Naomi King said...


The work of the devil here is that Bishop Holdam said in his article in the Daily Telegraph on Thursday 30th May, to which John Glen was replying, that "The Bible hasn't changed but our INTERPRETATION of it has". This is pure evil because what he and his homosexual friends are saying is that they represent the TRUE church and those who look to Holy Scripture for Godly authority are the false church. Very clever Bishop Holdam and very evil.

9 June 2013 at 17:16  
Blogger Naomi King said...


Interestingly last week the Independent headline said " The Civil War [over sanctifying homosexuality] is won and now begins the War against the Church".

Very telling John Glen MP's remark when he said, "If today’s church leaders follow Bishop Nicholas, and allow public opinion to define what they preach, I fear the decline in some parts of the Church of England will be terminal."

9 June 2013 at 17:20  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Indeed Mrs King. One doesn’t hold out much hope for the continuation of a church that reflects present fads, to wit, in this case, the acknowledgement that homosexuality is the finest level of existence open to man, or so it seems that’s where they’re heading. Why isn’t Christ’s message enough to be getting on with ?

Yet it was all so different in 1986, with unfettered AIDS on the rampage. It did look for a time that nature had provided a lasting and final solution to active homosexuality all by herself.


9 June 2013 at 17:39  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Inspector

"One doesn’t hold out much hope for the continuation of a church that reflects present fads, to wit, in this case, the acknowledgement that homosexuality is the finest level of existence open to man"

Brilliant .....should be the first lesson taught in all Theological Colleges

Or as the Guy from New Frontiers recently said in a debate. So God looks down from heaven and thinks "it is not how I planned it, but is OK for Guys to have sex with Guys" and later in the debate "You really think that God has no problem with Guys having sex with Guys? Jesus and Paul were wrong or just misguided?"

Some questions we could put to the Rev Holtam.... After he is sacked of course!

But that will not happen. To be sacked in the CofE it seems, all you need is to believe that the Bible is true and refuse to condone what the Bible condemns as bad for society.

Phil



9 June 2013 at 18:05  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Inspector +Nicholas' email is Bishop Salisbury

9 June 2013 at 18:06  
Blogger Naomi King said...

That should read

bishop.salisbury@salisbury.anglican.org

9 June 2013 at 18:06  
Blogger Naomi King said...


Having left the Anglican church after 40 years because of +Nicholas view of the authority (or otherwise) of divine Scripture, about two years ago, it was interesting to visit St Edward the Martyr in Corfe Castle last Sunday; CoE and also in the diocese of Salisbury and to discuss with the folks there their take on +Nicholas Holdam's view of homosexuality. One felt great pity for them they were ashamed and embarrassed at the stance taken by their Bishop but were too weak/frightened to confront it.

Bishop Holdam is a terrible appointment for Bishop here in the Salisbury diocese and for the Church of England as a whole. The man is a godless heretic. When I tried to correspond with him on the issue he descended quite quickly into rude offensiveness.

What were the people who made him a bishop thinking of ?

9 June 2013 at 18:21  
Blogger David Hussell said...

My personal view is that the C of E may in a not too distant point in the future, start some serious falling apart with, on the one side orthodox, traditionalists from high and low churches and on the other, the liberal majority. This could well be a good thing, in God's overall plan, as it may sort out the wheat from the chaff . The money and youth is with the Evangelical churches who will continue to flourish. Anglo-Catholics may have a bigger dilemma and will confront tough choices. I have no fear that ultimately heresy will wither and truth will survive. It was ever thus with Christianity.

9 June 2013 at 18:39  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Thank you Mrs King. This man will draw the bishop’s attention to his court martial taking place on this site.

Phil. The CoE is an episcopal church. In this man’s opinion, the only way to conduct a church. Episcopal implies leadership from the bishops. If a bishop is unable to provide that, he must go. If he doesn’t go, there is no valid leadership. And that means the CoE is no longer episcopal, so what is it then. Being a loose coalition of broadly similar thought is not a Christian church. And ++Welby is archbishop of nothing...

9 June 2013 at 18:53  
Blogger Bob said...

It pains me to read such negative thinking.

Empires rise and fall, religions ebb and flow, all things are subject to change in this fleeting life... Change is natural and not to be feared.

Everything's gonna be fine guys.

The snows of yesterday
That fell like cherry blossoms
Are water once again...

:)

Peace.

9 June 2013 at 19:12  
Blogger Nick said...

Naomi 17:05

It was very gracious of your church to pray for the bishops salvation, though I suspect he is one of the career-clergy who tries to re-invent God in his own image, or at least, the image expected by a secular society.

I doubt he would be repentant if challenged on the issue. All the more reason why he should go before his views contaminate the rest of the church.

I also find the new AoC a bit of a disappointment. It's not an illustrious start to his career to have caved in so easily to political pressure over SSM, not to mention his baffling commendation of the Bishops ill-informed and ill-judged comments on slavery and apartheid.

I suspect it will be up to the grass-roots Christians to keep the church on an even spiritual keel. There's nothing more disheartening than when your captain goes AWOL, though I've no doubt that in time new church leaders, rooted in truth and integrity, will emerge.

9 June 2013 at 20:01  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Nick,
I agree with you. The new Archbishop is a disappointment. It's the same sort of disappointment that Cameron supplied. One waits for years whilst an ineffective Rowan Williams wallows in academic prevarication and meaningless liberal Anglo-Catholicism, one hopes and even expects to get an Archbishop who is a strong leader and then finds that he isn't. Just like years of PC nonsense from New Labour only to find even worse nonsense from Liberal Dave.
Yes orthodoxy will have to be maintained by some of the lower clergy and the faithful laity. What are we paying these people for ? It's not a joyride this.

9 June 2013 at 20:38  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

I think Bp. Holtam is horrendously and poorly poorly researched. He probably would be horrified if he knew what those he regards as living the same as faithful heterosexual couples really got up to, the incidence of promiscuity, open relationships, SM, fetishism,violence, agression, paedophilias and hebophilias all sorts of odd and often lavatorial philias, and orgies amongst those he so unwisely fetes.

I am still at an entire and utter loss as to quite why those who define themselves as failing or refusing to find the opposite gender attractive should be so lauded. The dynamic is defined by rejection. REJECTION is not and never can be pretty, and to dance around the maypole honouring and lauding it is just absurd and shows the hollowness and stupidity of the whole p.c. thing. They are so so shallow compared to 1 Corinthians 13, but think they are more sophisticated, knowing little about real universal love.

9 June 2013 at 21:08  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Inspector, your remark about AIDS is as unhelpful, offensive and inaccurate as anything the Tatchellites are saying. Kindly repent of even seeming in a bad joke or 'irony' to welcome AIDS.
I have seen people dying of it, have you sir?

I hope the water will come to the boil quickly, so the frog will leap out of the pot before it is killed. In that sense I welcome Salisbury coming out as an apostate.

Decision time for Anglicans. Do we follow Christ or public opinion?

9 June 2013 at 21:34  
Blogger Peter D said...

The time for talking is done.

The last few threads have demonstrated we no longer live in a society based on traditional Christian values. We have a multi-faith, diverse, pluralistic and 'open minded' society. As Christians we have to find our place in this 'new world order' in the West.

More seriously, our churches are becoming corrupted by the world. They are adapting to rather than confronting the world.

What should we do if we have a vicar/priest/minister/elder (whatever) who teaches 'liberal' and 'modernist' views that clearly contradict traditional, Christian doctrine?

Should we end communion with that congregation after attempting to point out the errors of these views? Must we withdraw financial support and other ways of supporting parish life? Is staying tantamount to collusion with error?

And if the problems come right from the top of a particular churches hierarchy - should we break with that church altogether?

9 June 2013 at 21:43  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

PS Inspector, you used the phrase 'final solution' in your comment about AIDS and 'active homosexuals'. Would you wish that comment to be quoted in Pink News or The Guardian? Only if the Inspector is an agent provocateur.

9 June 2013 at 21:43  
Blogger bluedog said...

Thanks Naomi @ 18.06. Not so long ago this communicant was driving through one of the Winterslows, some miles east of Salisbury. There in the grounds of the primary school was an Iman addressing the innocents. One could only wonder at the naivety of the teaching staff in allowing a preacher of such hate to contaminate young minds. But no doubt it's all part of a direction from Ofsted in the name of equality and multiculturalism. If there is a single Muslim family in any of the Winterslows, this communicant would be astonished.

Perhaps next time the sighting will be the equally threatening Anglican Bishop of Salisbury, preaching perversion to the innocents against the teaching of his own Church.

Sad days indeed.

9 June 2013 at 21:43  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Rambling Seed. ‘Unhelpful’ is such a glorious word as used by the English, don’t you think ? Any other nation would say ‘You rotter, how dare you mention that’.

Anyway, let us address your gripe. In London, a mecca for gay men, one in seven has gonorrhoea. One in twelve has HIV. Remarkable ignorance persists about a cure for HIV. On Pink News, you will find the odd, “it’s round the corner” or “it’s only a matter of time”.

If a cure for HIV is found, it will open up a brand new branch of medicine. The ability to manipulate viruses. Do you know how successful the research has been to date ? It has been entirely down to BLOCKING the effects of the virus. Nothing else. The virus is still going to spend the rest of your life trying to kill you.

So there we have it. Active male homosexuality is unsustainable, for without expensive drug treatment which the tax payer funds, active male homosexuals would be short in numbers. And no, this man has not seen anyone dying from AIDS. But he has had his fair share of visiting people dying from cancer. Your point being ?


9 June 2013 at 22:00  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Well said brother. We will have to endure the cries of bigotry etc but I think Matthew 5 vss 11-12 should cover it.

Re bluedog's point, this failure of the bishops to speak clearly on sexual sin will strengthen the conviction of the Muslims that destiny is handing Europe over to the Caliphate. Everything is connected. Woolwich with respect was only a blip (albeit a terrible and instructive blip) The real jihad-by immigration and high birth rates- will intensify. With bishops like this no wonder the cultural and demographic jihadis smell victory.

9 June 2013 at 22:03  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Inspector, I thought I had made my point. To clarify, expressing pleasure at awful deaths is unchristian. Point 2 yes I know how unhealthy promiscuous sex is especially when the lower part of the digestive tract is involved. But lesbians are relatively protected and most AIDS cases globally are in heterosexuals, often faithful wives of whoring husbabds. Then you gotta add haemophiliacs and others infected by dirty needles.

I take a traditionalist biblical view of sexual sin, as did a Christian nurse I knew who acquired her HIV (which killed her) from working as a midwife in Zimbabwe long after the last pair of surgical gloves disintegrated. A biblical view of sin involves me knowing myself to be a sinner. I try to avoid taking pleasure in the death of other sinners.

Kind regards, or perhaps I shouls say 'toodle pip!'

9 June 2013 at 22:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Rambling Seed. Let this man assure you he does not take comfort from the suffering of others. In fact, much of what he posts is a direct consequence of the suffering of others. The Inspector retires at night with no pain. He believes that’s because he is a Christian. One would like to offer the chance of a similar peace to those who are not Christian.

Goodnight Sir.

9 June 2013 at 22:44  
Blogger David Hussell said...

I often pray for parents, mothers and fathers, trying to raise their children as Christians in today's toxic, evil even, social environment. Theirs is truly a daunting task and we should all be aware of that. I shudder to think how many youngsters will be confused, deliberately, by lessons that teach same sex sexual relationships and "marriage" are of the same value as healthy, normal ones within heterosexual marriage. How long, I ask, will it take society to regain the meaning of true, sacramental marriage ?

9 June 2013 at 22:58  
Blogger Bob said...

"If you have no love, do what you will - go after all the gods on earth, do all the social activities, try to reform the poor, the politics, write books, write poems - you are a dead human being.

Without love your problems will increase, multiply endlessly. And with love, do what you will, there is no risk; there is no conflict. Then love is the essence of virtue. And a mind that is not in a state of love, is not a religious mind at all."

-Krishnamurti

9 June 2013 at 23:11  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9 June 2013 at 23:13  
Blogger Peter D said...

Hannah

" ... as that would lower the moral high ground you and Peter D sit on!

Excuse me, young woman! That is wholly uncalled for. Where have I ever commented on the rate of STI's amongst either homosexuals or heterosexuals? Never, is the answer.

And I think you'll find I've always tried to offer a theological rather than a personal attack on homosexuality.

9 June 2013 at 23:22  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Peter D,

My apologises, you are quite right- you have argued with Inspector against his lack of Orthodoxy of the Catholic faith. I shall delete the post! ):

9 June 2013 at 23:28  
Blogger Peter D said...

Hannah - no need to delete it. We all make mistakes (except me, of course). Leave it for the Inspector to answer as it is a valid point.

9 June 2013 at 23:31  
Blogger Peter D said...

Too late!

9 June 2013 at 23:31  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Inspector,

One thing you always overlook is the rife STD's among hetrosexuals who actively 'sleep around' and have sex with multiple people (not mentioning those who get pregnant and end up asking for a DNA test on Jeremy Kyle....)

The Moral high ground you are sitting on can't be that comfy, a slightly foggy bottom, perhaps...

9 June 2013 at 23:32  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Peter D,

Well I have put a 'moderated' version up... so Inspector can still moan at me if he likes... 'owrarr,get m'e Pytche folkrke' as he would say in his Irish-Cotswold accent.

9 June 2013 at 23:34  
Blogger Rasher Bacon said...

Thanks David Hussell. It did give us many second thoughts when having kids, but reading John 16 & 17 is good for the soul. I do believe in a supernatural God. The distinction between the world and the church (defined as those who belong to Christ) is now getting clearer, which is a good thing, but it will require some new tools in the Christian parenting box.

I'm sure we can learn from those who have faced far worse, and count it all joy when we encounter various trials. That's not fake piety - it's the only option!

9 June 2013 at 23:37  
Blogger Peter D said...

Bob

So you're a follower of Krishnamurti? A man who in his youth was groomed by theosophists and who eventually proved incapable of forming normal personal relationships - too aloof, you see.

Whilst there's truth in some of these 'transcendental' wittering's, and the parables you cite, they're just philosophical musings with little real point.

Oh well, so now I'm off to sit under a tree for the rest of my days and watch and meditate on the world's misery and hopelessness as I beg for food from passers by.

Namaste

9 June 2013 at 23:38  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Bluedog, there is almost certainly not one muslim single family in Winterslow and very, very few in Salisbury. Salisbury city itself has one of the very lowest rates of muslim infilling in the country, way less than 1%.

10 June 2013 at 05:01  
Blogger bluedog said...

Naomi @ 0501, been to York recently? Wind the clock back 50 years, it's just like it was, close to heaven. Try the early eucharist in the Zouche Chapel of York Minster, 07.30 every day, sublime.

10 June 2013 at 08:23  
Blogger Bob said...

@Peter D

Not a follower, no, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. You say there's truth in my "witterings" and parables, but there is little point to them - but surely their truth is enough of a point. Meditation and quiet reflection will point the way ;)

You (and everyone) don't have to withdraw from the world completely, just make an effort to be kind and compassionate. Just think what the world would be like if everyone did that...

:)

Peace.

10 June 2013 at 08:43  
Blogger Flossie said...

I'm with the Inspector on the HIV/AIDS issue. It is an unpleasant subject, and people don't like talking about it because it is unpleasant. The theological aspect of homosexuality will not stop people dying of AIDS as most people don't care what the Bible says. People like Bishop Holtam and Alan Wilson will one day be called to account for their part in drawing attention away from the deadly dangers attached to the lifestyle.

Kudos to Mr Glen. I expect he will be torn to ribbons by the Pink Brigade, but he has shown more guts (and has a better grasp of theology) than some of those who are supposed to uphold Christian teaching.

10 June 2013 at 09:22  
Blogger Naomi King said...


2Peter 2 pretty much sums up the Bishop of Salisbury for me.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. For if God spared not ... the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, ... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:... For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness.

10 June 2013 at 09:35  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Naomi

I'd like to echo that by a reference, as I've done before, to 'Revelation'.

In 'Daniel', there are four beasts that represent four consecutive empires. The first Beast of 'Revelation' has bits from all four of those. That suggests generalised political power over time.

The second Beast, that looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon, directs worship to the first Beast (the political order), and away from the real Lamb. (See where I'm headed?) God's number in 'Revelation' is 7. The second Beast tries to be God, but fails each time: hence 6-6-6.

In these terms, there have been lots of Bishops of Salisbury before: and there will be again, while the present order of the world endures. This should not take us by surprise, if we keep our eyes fixed on the true Lamb.

10 June 2013 at 10:16  
Blogger Christian Contender said...

It is distressing that in the opposition to same sex marriage, even from churches and Christian groups, there has been a studious avoidance of reference to the Bible's teaching that homosexuality is a breach of God's moral law. The fundamental issue in the whole debate is the politically incorrect word 'sin'.

Particularly distessing was the Archbishop of Canterbury's speech in the Lords. Yet the media, I feel, have generally represented the archbishop as upholding an orthodox conservative position. For any of His Grace’s followers who might be interested, I have identified what I perceive to be eight serious flaws in what Mr. Welby said, and have put a (courteous) analysis of his speech on my church’s website at http://www.realchristianity.org/ssm-abc---serious-flaws.html.

10 June 2013 at 10:38  
Blogger Preacher said...

Thank the Lord for this Blog. The many who post here prove again & again that the true Church of Jesus Christ is alive & well on planet Earth & that there are "many who have not bowed the knee to Baal".
The issue of SSM is just the tip of the iceberg of the overall disease of Sin & we should not vilify one group of people above another. Without Christ All are lost & destined for judgement.
We should however note those, whether Bishops or politicians who wish is to justify sin & call it good, & seek to remove them from the offices they hold at the earliest opportunity.
Above all we must not lose heart, for "The gates of Hell shall not prevail over Christ or His Church".

10 June 2013 at 10:43  
Blogger LEN said...

The 'Church age' is possibly coming to an close?.

As the church apostatizes then we can no longer expect the Holy Spirit to dwell within 'the Church system.'The World' has/is/ entering the church and will establish the 'value and the morality system' of a fallen creation over and above Gods Holy Order..Deception then corruption is the pattern Satan has followed because it has always worked for him.What Satan cannot kill outright he corrupts.
The corruption of the priests was prominent when the glory departed from the tent at Shiloh, and the corruption of the kings of Israel and Judah played a large part in causing the glory to depart from the house of God in Jerusalem. Solomon, who had built the temple, was the first of the kings to introduce idolatry (1 Kings 11:1-8), bringing upon himself and upon his people the anger of a holy and jealous God.
However the Holy Spirit is still leading people to Christ wherever He is accepted and Christ and His Teachings are held in esteem.
When the majority(within the Church) go astray God will /and has/worked through a remnant to fulfill His Purposes.
There are those who whatever the circumstances will remain faithful to Christ and not be led into deception if the Truth(about Christ) is treasured more than even life itself.

10 June 2013 at 11:10  
Blogger Preacher said...

Len.
Amen.

10 June 2013 at 11:28  
Blogger Christian Contender said...

Len. Amen also.

10 June 2013 at 13:01  
Blogger Naomi King said...


Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

11 June 2013 at 13:51  

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