Thursday, January 02, 2014

Romanians, Bulgarians and Jesus

It is not clear how many Romulans and Vulgarians have landed. Early indications suggest that they are few in number and indistinguishable from the indigenous species. Some reports suggest that there may be more to come and may be readily identified by their black hair, pointed ears, up-swept eyebrows and (if you pierce them) copper-based blue blood. A few of them have been seen to possess a V-shaped ridge above the bridge of the nose, which might make assimilation and job hunting a little difficult.

Bulgarian and Romanian citizens are now free to live and work in the UK after controls in place since 2007 expired. We humble and common folk can do absolutely nothing about this: our political masters have unanimously decreed that it must be so, and there is no mechanism for changing the policy. Talk of revolution is unseemly; thoughts of Ukip winning a general election are absurd. So, get over it. They are here, or they are coming.

And they are people.

Amidst all the unpleasant rhetoric, one sometimes feels that Romanians and Bulgarians are vile, sub-human creatures, devoid of feelings, decency and morality. You may loathe the self-promoting Home Affairs Select Committee Chairman Keith Vaz, but his decision to spend New Year's Day greeting passengers on the first flight from Romania was courteous, compassionate and benevolent. It is how human beings ought to treat other human beings.

It is the sort of love that Christians might show those foreigners who have chosen to dwell among us, for they do so perfectly legally.

It may be "irresponsible to open the door unconditionally", but it is open. You may wish it were otherwise, but it is not. You can pretend that it is, and scoff and scorn at the flood of thieves, tramps and benefit scroungers, or you can meet one or two, talk to them, and discover their hopes and dreams. For they live with bread, like you; feel want, taste grief, and need friends.

They are equal to us: they have the same human rights, and are worthy of dignity and respect. You may disagree that such migrants are essential to economic recovery, but they are here nonetheless. You may object to them having access to higher wages and tax credits, but they are here. You can argue about national sovereignty or the ethics of immigration and cultural identity. But they are here. You can moan about overcrowded schools, the inability to get a doctor's appointment or see a dentist. But they are here. To be embittered about their presence is self-destructive and futile, for they are here. To spit at them or despise them is a profoundly un-Christian discrimination, for Jesus loves them and they are our neighbour.

So, as they try to live among us and scratch out a living from a cold bedsit, treat them as you would your friends: be kind, courteous and considerate. For they have come here to seek a better life for themselves. You may wish it were otherwise, but EU accession has manifestly done nothing for them in their own impoverished towns and jobless villages, and so they are here among us. And you and your neighbour are equal partners within a universe which has its origin and end in God. To love them is the highest good; to disdain them a tyranny. Their welfare and liberty, or their misery and enslavement, are in your hands. Do not view them as objects of corruption or parasitical need, for they are your fellow man, and to withhold your neighbour-love is to deny their value and significance and negate your love for God. They are in a foreign land, but so are you, for our citizenship is in heaven.


Blogger The Explorer said...

"our citizenship is in Heaven." But what is our nationality to be within that citizenship?

Some religions seek the extinction of the individual, but Christianity says our individuality will survive: indeed, will even be enhanced. Will that include our nationality?

The EU project seems to entail the swallowing up of individual nations within the Euro whole. The next stage, presumably, is for the Euro entity to merge and dissolve itself into some sort of global nation?

But the vision in 'Revelation seems to be of something rather different. 7:9 - " a vast throng from every nation." 22:3 - "the leaves of the trees serve for the healing of the nations".

Nations in harmony with one another. But still nations, none the less.

2 January 2014 at 09:42  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Your Grace is right to point to their essential humanity, like the rest of us. But to leave it simply at that is to ignore the bulk of the practicalities and implications which relate to this political foolishness, which are legion. But no doubt Your Grace is relying on the comments that will pile in below, as you have created the opportunity for comment, which is the essential purpose of a blog.

No, we must not blame the individual economic migrants, they are just seeking work. It is primarily the mendacious politicians so keen to destroy a thousand years of slowly evolving culture. Market forces, unwisely unconstrained by those politicians will continue causing so much unnecessary suffering for the most vulnerable sections of the population. It is a strange combination of unfettered right wing capitalism with idealistic, unworldly international socialist thinking that pulls up those fences, the borders that by regulating markets, protected the vulnerable.
Expect interesting results in the polls !

2 January 2014 at 09:44  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 January 2014 at 09:46  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Kieth Vaz - the man for whom the word Oleagenous is barely adequate.

2 January 2014 at 09:49  
Blogger The Explorer said...

I suppose I'm contrasting the mind set that would dissolve all boundaries with the one that sees some boundaries as legitimate.

Rousseau, who donated all five of his children to the local orphanage at birth, and spoke of compelling all to be free. And Aristotle, who saw the family as the basic unit of society.

2 January 2014 at 10:02  
Blogger Andrew said...

Gosh, if that's the revised version of Dreadnaught's comment, what must the original one he deleted have been like?

2 January 2014 at 10:14  
Blogger Andrew said...

Gosh, if that's the revised version of Dreadnaught's comment, what must the original one he deleted have been like?

2 January 2014 at 10:14  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Had trouble spelling Vaz.

2 January 2014 at 10:29  
Blogger IanCad said...

A beautiful posting YG.

Our masters may be unwise, opportunistic and venal but these new arrivals are only doing what, to them, seems best.

Our Lord and Saviour has plenty to say about how we should treat them.

2 January 2014 at 10:34  
Blogger MrTinkles said...

Andrew - yes, my thought too. I was wondering if he deleted the previous one for poor spelling.

On topic though; excellent post YG. Those of us who may have concerns with the EU, immigration policy or any of this oleaginous government's actions sometimes need to remind ourselves that there are actual people behind the Daily Mail's headlines.

I don't know how Jesus would have voted or what He thinks about the EU, but I do know He would show the same love and compassion to the plumber from Romania as He does to me.

2 January 2014 at 10:41  
Blogger Martin said...


You also seem to have had a problem spelling Keith. ;-)

2 January 2014 at 10:45  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ha ha ha ha! Whooo-wee! I had no idea! I really need to keep up with the news.

Due to a where I was born, I can hop on a flight before noon today, land in Heathrow whenever, do a little tap-dance on the tarmac and shout, "Hi-ya folks, heeeere I am! What ya got fer me?"

Now, if only you had man-sized trucks, real highways, heated houses with hallways you can turn around in without greasing the walls with Vaseline, food one can taste and beer cooler than pee..... ;)

2 January 2014 at 10:48  
Blogger David B said...

Actually in practical terms in the only life we know for certain is real, there seems very little difference between my self styled secular atheist liberal point of view than His Grace's Conservative Christian one.

Some might disagree with me, but I think it entirely legitimate to have concerns about the macroscopic effects of massive economic migration, the more especially so when there might be large and sometimes upsetting cultural differences involved.

At the same time, it must be remembered that the individuals concerned are individuals, with their individual strengths, weaknesses, hopes, dreams, talents etc, and at an individual level surely it behooves us all to treat people on their merits, allowing an extra bit benovolence to allow for benefit of doubt and human kindness.

Political asylum is a different matter from economic matter.

There again, we are signed up to it, it is a good idea, and my heart goes out to those who suffer under the various dictatorships and theocracies of this world.

For instance to freethinkers, to Christians, and to Muslims with the wrong flavour in the Islamic theocracies under which some suffer.

There, while there is legally and morally no case against giving succour to the wrong sort of Muslim, I can't help but maintain some sort of concern regarding large scale movements of the persecuted people concerned.

Call it weakness on my part if you like, even call it Islamophobia, but I really do not want to see FGM, Child Marriage, forced marriage, calls for the killings of Apostates, stonings and Sharia Law in general, and various other matters which are religiously and/or culturally associated with Islam of many schools taking a foothold here.

It is difficult, I freely admit, for me to find a completely internally consistent liberal, secular and humane position on this, but, for good or ill, I freely confess how I feel faced with such issues, and add that I think it important not go give too much importance to religious and cultural privilege.

If we can and ought to stand up to such cultural habits as fox hunting, we should, I think, be standing up against FGM, Sharia, Sexual apartheid, cutting bits off children's genitals and much else that remains as an archaic, cruel and inhumane relics of the Middle Eastern cultural and religious heritage.

So, as individuals, let us welcome new arrivals with courtesy ans kindness, but let us continue to resist tolerance of abominations on religious and/or cultural grounds.


2 January 2014 at 10:50  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Before the EU existed, people would travel within Britain to find work. Their initiative, and concern for their families, was to be admired.

Now that the EU is one big country, some travel within it to find work. Their initiative, and concern for their families, is to be admired.

2 January 2014 at 10:51  
Blogger Len said...

Welcome aboard our sinking ship, the decks may be awash, the helmsman`s lost the compass and we are heading for the ice field.

Joking aside, the Bulgarians and the Romanians might be a bit surprised to find themselves a bit more Christian than we are?.

2 January 2014 at 10:52  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

You also seem to have had a problem spelling Keith. ;-)

I always do!

2 January 2014 at 10:52  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Avi @ 10.48

Paragraph 2. I look forward to seeing you.. you would be much appreciated.

Paragraph 3. Cheeky bugger !

2 January 2014 at 10:57  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Avi @ 10:48

The houses have to be small because there are so many people to accommodate in the space available. The motorways as well because there must be space to grow at least some of our own food.

As it is, we are headed for not only the highest population density in Europe (there already), but also the highest population outright. At some stage in the future, on current predictions, there will be more people living in Britain than there will be people living in Germany.

2 January 2014 at 11:02  
Blogger David Hussell said...

The Explorer @ 10.02

Very apposite.

I'm with Aristotle. Those family values are receiving a battering at present, from the fashionable,greedy elite, but will always, in the long run, reassert themselves.

Rousseau. His private life was, searching for words.... no model of justice or fair play by any standards. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Yet by various circuitous routes, it is his sort of thinking that is informing the reckless attempt to destroy the nations and create a centralized euro-empire centered on Brussels. It will fail, but will first cause much hardship. All utopian schemes fail.

My conscience keeps me working with Ukip, a party far from perfect but with an instinctive understanding of justice, of the British/Judaeo-Christian flavour.

2 January 2014 at 11:09  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Thanks, Dave H! Maybe you'll have a spare room for me wife's relatives in Edinburgh and Hastings might not survive the shock of me. But can't blame them; look at David B above and his liberal's nightmares about a chop-chop of his wee-wee.

Explore, all that makes sense, except for the pee-warm beer.

2 January 2014 at 11:17  
Blogger The Explorer said...


Myself, I follow French drinking patterns: wine, and cold Alsace lager.

2 January 2014 at 11:30  
Blogger bluedog said...

David B @ 10.50 rails against 'cutting bits off children's genitals'. But think of the benefits to the NHS. Male circumcision is well known as a mitigating factor in the spread of STDs. Now that 'gross indecency' and worse is legal that must be a positive. In WW2 it was generally recognised that circumcised men on active service, and therefore going unwashed for long periods of time, enjoyed far better health in their private parts than the uncircumcised.

If you take a less than shallow look at 'kosher', you will see a regime for maintaining food hygene in an environment without refrigeration. Circumcision is a similar survival technique, with modern relevance.

2 January 2014 at 11:34  
Blogger IanCad said...

Avi wrote:
"Now, if only you had man-sized trucks, real highways,--"
Hold on, Hold on!!

The "Puny" lorries we have over here haul a skosh under 100,000lbs. Granted, they are C/O's but a few conventionals are now appearing.

The freeways are every bit as good as those in North America. Certainly they are better maintained.

Our truck drivers may not be as courteous but have to be more capable in order to navigate the horribly narrow country roads which are an inevitable part of every journey.

2 January 2014 at 11:34  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Of course we should treat people decently but the country is full. And I don't care if that's Nick Griffin's catch phrase, it's still true.

As for the unspeakable Vaz, of course socialists want more immigration. They can count on the votes of both immigrants and those Brits who prefer life on benefits to low paid work.

2 January 2014 at 11:38  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Explorer: I don't know, I'll take the warm beer if I don't ever have to read another legislated bilingual label with the French taking over half of it. Besides, I'm a scotch and schmaltz herring kind of a guy. I can switch to sliced smoked salmon, perhaps with some capers on the side at a drop of a hat, but with the all that scotch around, my liver would be handing me a letter of resignation within a fortnight.

2 January 2014 at 11:40  
Blogger David Hussell said...

The Explorer @ 11.02

Space and density. Correct !

Avi's monster trucks are too big for our spaces. We are seriously overcrowded.

I spent a lifetime, professionally, as a Geographer and Chartered Town Planner trying to find spaces in which to create environments for families to live, work, recreate and flourish in, without, without ........... resorting to using up land that really, really should not be built on, by any sane society, like flood plains, top quality farmland, ancient wildlife sites, near precious heritage buildings etc etc.... there's a long list of "constraints".

The rewarding bit, of course, is actually conceiving concepts, and then designing buildings and spaces, to create new, successful communities in which people can flourish. My hallmark was to plan around schools and a church.

But there's very little green field land left that a sane society would develop. There's some, not an unlimited amount of expensive to develop land in urban areas. But how many people can you, should you, cram into our towns and cities?

The sites that should be used are few and hotly contested.

The British countryside is beautiful, a fragile illusion of design and ingenuity now becoming hopelessly overstrained by sheer numbers of people, in those areas where market forces want people to gather.

The infrastructure has been overloaded in the economically vibrant areas, and elsewhere often, for decades. Public Authorities are by nature, democratic and therefore slow moving, and cannot respond quickly to rapid fluctuations in population or demand. This is because of the shortage of firstly, budgets, £ , and secondly shortage of land, as well as political inertia and complications.

The politicians are well provided for with pleasant places to live, work and recreate, often abroad or certainly well away from the urban throng in the south. They have ignored these serious environmental limitations for decades now. They don't like reality at all, they just want to be reelected.

I wish future generations well, but heaven help us if the supply of cheap, imported food falters.

2 January 2014 at 11:40  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

IanCad Ha! Trucking one-upmanship, eh? But do your conventionals have a 77" tall sleepers, 500-600 hp engines with 1650-2050 lb-ft torque? I'm now contemplating a shower arrangement I saw at a truck show recently.

But seriously, if only my AZ (tractor-trailer and airbrake license) were valid in the UK, I'd go and tool around your roads for no pay. I'm bored of the wide curves and monotonous, sparsely populated landscape here.

2 January 2014 at 11:59  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Good post Mr Hussell.

2 January 2014 at 12:02  
Blogger IanCad said...

Back to you later about that Avi,
Got to go.

2 January 2014 at 12:04  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Didn't you have an ice storm?
Anyway in Hastings it was wet and windy.
On my flight out on New Years Eve I was annoyed to find only the Daily Mail available.
I cannot believe as it claimed that wages in England are the most attractive in Europe.
I am back in the sunshine with plenty of crumpet.

2 January 2014 at 12:04  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Avi @ 11.17,

Spare room, no problem, my friend. From there you can plan your campaign to establish yourself in Blighty. I even know a nice gentle ( not gentile ) Jewish fellow to get you started in that community, though he's very liberal I believe.

However the monster truck can stay there I think. But I love those snorting trucks with the stovepipe exhaust and flap on the top -great ! You see more of them in Sweden, which has oodles of room, especially in the far north, which I love.

As the sort of Town Planner who relishes the challenge of building whole new communities, I would give my right arm for the wide open swathes of Canada to play with, which I haven't visited yet. Though I was offered a job there with a Canadian/US planning firm in the 70s, but that was remained a road not taken.

2 January 2014 at 12:09  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

David Hussell, before I chucked it all for the open roads, one of my projects involved design work on earthquake resistant reinforced brick and stone masonry houses for Japan. I don't know where I've put the blueprints to give you sizes, but they were shockingly tiny, the houses being the same width of a tight, one-car garage. You are headed for the Japanese solution and will have to trust in God that others will grow your food...unless there is an energy and agricultural revolution.

My guess is that it's not actual space you're lacking in the UK, but affordable energy to allow you to spread out a little with two or more cars per family and live at greater distances from work. Mind you, it's that density and greater human imprint on a softer and very lush landscape that, from what I saw in person, makes your country so warm, charming and beautiful.

2 January 2014 at 12:13  
Blogger Manfarang said...

As my friend used to say to my Canadian cousins,"We have got double-decker buses".

2 January 2014 at 12:14  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Hi , yes we had a nasty ice storm. My neighbourhood in Toronto was hit very hard because of all the big, old trees. We scrambled to the basement with all the ice-coated trees and branches crashing on our roof and one of the cars. And then, we lost power for four days and couldn't drive out for two, as our street was blocked by fallen maples...meaning I couldn't get the generator I left at the cottage. There are still about 20,000 people in Ontario without power last time I checked.

2 January 2014 at 12:27  
Blogger The Explorer said...

David H @ 11:09

(And great post @ 11:40!)

Commit oneself to dissolving boundaries, and it must become very difficult to stop.

National borders, the family, male and female, human and animal...

Been there, done that. What next? The boundary between the animate and the inanimate? Earth as a lump of uninhabited rock whirling in space? An equality of non-existence must be the ultimate in egalitarianism.

I'll bet they're working on it somewhere.

2 January 2014 at 12:48  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The Explorer
The family? Extended or nuclear?

2 January 2014 at 12:59  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

You can't blame anyone for wanting to lift themselves out of poverty but you can seriously question their right to claim welfare support to achieve it. Minimum wage rates in the UK are more than six times that of many eastern and southern European countries, that's why our benefits as much as taxable working opportunities are so attractive.

The EU should rule for financial reciprocaive arrangements between host and home countries, for all ex-patriots claiming benefits.

We simply don't need any more Big Issue sellers or spongers 'working the system' with impunity.

2 January 2014 at 13:17  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Nuke the nuclear one. Extend the other until it encompasses the whole state.

Or, as the denizens of Brave New World put it: "Everybody belongs to everybody."

2 January 2014 at 13:17  
Blogger David Hussell said...

The Explorer @ 12.48

Thank you.

The rest made me laugh, but the theorists are mad enough to force us to try anything, such is their arrogance and disdain for the proven, traditional approach.

But I've been busy with the technology, oh yes !

Mine's the third asteroid from the left, which I'm powering using banks of discarded V8's (from old Rover cars) with loud carburetors and a straight through exhaust system ! We don't do brakes in outer space, but I've got a chunk of rain forest to pump out the oxygen I 'm burning up. Can't wait for the starter's flag to fall, then I'm off on a surge of torque power ! So I'm really looking forward to the track days on Venus and long distance rallies to the outer galaxy.

Gentlemen start your engines !

2 January 2014 at 13:26  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Avi @ 12.13

No, energy costs are an issue in lots of places, but the unique ( particular anyway ) point about these islands is that we don't have enough land- simples !

Japan as an island archipelago shares a surprising number of geographical characteristics with these islands ( I'll restrain myself as space is limited) but it's particular "constraint", far worse than here, is the mountainous nature of their island chain. They possess little farm land so their big population gained much of its food from the sea. Hence their tiny houses, one car family, miniature golf courses. It also explains their flocking abroad whenever they can, like the Dutch and for similar reasons, plus the Japanese elaborate social rituals and respect for each others "space". So perceptions of space, influences national social behaviour and all sorts of patterns connected to access to the use of land.

We have more flat ish useable land, but a lot is needed for agriculture and water control, plus all the "built" bits including infrastructure. The "train set " is already very tightly crowded. Because of our history and culture we place great value on our views, wildlife and ecology, which is expressed in our literature, painting and recreational pursuits.

Forcing in an ever expanding population will distort our national character, a process noted by reformers like Joseph Rowntree. Access to space for housing or even recreation will become the preserve of the wealthy and comfortably off, causing deep resentment from the urban underclass, inevitably.

Politicians may be formally well educated at Oxford but they are brain dead in terms of causation and practical, long term thinking. Wisdom is not prized by these people, short termists all !

2 January 2014 at 13:53  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Hong Kong managed to preserve its countryside, give an improving standard of living to its people all despite massive immigration

No Democratic government of course.....


No silly laws...

No benefits for immigrants..

Just opportunity.

I feel sorry for the British unskilled. It is a another nail in their coffin of them ever getting higher wages.

Or even employed in the first place.


2 January 2014 at 14:08  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Happy Jack says this is a good article, Your Grace.

These people from Europe are only doing what they are allowed to do and they should not be set upon because they want to improve their lives.

Jack adds, the politicians do need to get their act together though and make sure all this is best for this country. People in Britain don't agree with what is happening and this disagreement is not good for the peace of the state.

2 January 2014 at 14:58  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

No doubt the absolute limits of land are a factor, David H, but as you yourself recognize, there are other limits and I'm sure they are way, way more important.

First, you're dismissing the price of energy for which there still is a great difference between Europe and North America in relative, income related and taxation level terms. Then, going back to the Middle Ages (and Rome too), you'll see that even with low populations and swaths of undeveloped land waiting to be settled, the towns and cities of Europe were dense, even in the middle of empty regions, all with small houses and narrow streets. Security and the need for expensive town walls and towers for hamlets and farms all pushed for high density. Then, the peculiarities of land ownership and distribution by Church and State, the free market towns, cloisters and monasteries...all of these favoured high density human settlement with strict social controls.

But I still think the cost of energy, followed by the costs of transportation infrastructures and again security...think toll roads, bridges, fortifications like roundhouses and gatehouses... all these placed greater limits on the use of space than plain availability of square footage per person. And what you have now is the rmains, the detritus of history, a weird medieval continuum of the loss of commons, the serfdom, the land grabs by barons, the fences, hedges, clearances, division of fields, the growing control by guilds and the ever rising taxes. All this nicely segued into regulations upon regulations on the economy, stifling it, taking away what little freedom of movement and settlement there is, and all of this inflating real estate values and the cost of human movement. What's worse now, though, is that there is no more Eastward expansion into the forests of Germany or the plains of Poland, no colonial possibilities and no endless North American frontiers either, while the relentless East-to-West human drift, of which I have been a part of too, continues. Things will get nasty for all of us, I'm afraid.

2 January 2014 at 15:09  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

for Jesus loves them

Jesus being dead and living the life of Riley in Heaven, he doesn’t have to live next door to them; or see his earnings held down, and his children struggle to find work, because of them.

Any other supremely impractical observations to make, Your Grace?

2 January 2014 at 15:24  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

The fact is our little country cannot accommodate anymore people.
We'll end up in a similar situation to that in Greece.
It's all well and good giving Christian love to our new neighbours coming here, but when they are taking the bread out of our mouths and their culture causes mayhem and destruction as we experience yet another wave of crimes that our police force have to try and get to grips with alongside all the rest that we already have, no there is no love left!

2 January 2014 at 15:48  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Marie, I love the "proof of global warming" avatar image!

2 January 2014 at 16:06  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Marie 1797
I don't think the Romanians and Bulgarians are going to eat that white pudding like substance which is called bread in southern England so your loaf is safe.
They might take over a few disused churches and start using them as Orthodox churches and use real bread for the Eucharist.

2 January 2014 at 16:40  
Blogger Manfarang said...

"ex-patriots claiming benefits"
The ones in west Belfast?

2 January 2014 at 16:48  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Avi @ 15:09

Good points all. A city wall (and maintaining it and having the facility to guard it) constrained city size.

A couple of other thoughts.

1. Immigrants to Britain don't head for Bodmin Moor, the Lake District or the wilds of Scotland: all of which have plenty of space, but employment opportunities to match. They head for densely-populated urban areas and increase the density of population even further.

2. A contrast between France and Britain that everyone I know comments on is the difference in traffic density on the roads.

2 January 2014 at 16:50  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The Explorer
"wilds of Scotland"
Yes not many immigrants in Easterhouse in Glasgow although a lot of Irish people went to the west of Scotland in the past.

2 January 2014 at 16:57  
Blogger The Explorer said...

One further thought:

The amount of land in France makes for cheap houses (from a British, though not a French, point of view).

But it also makes for expensive electricity because of the number of pylons necessitated to carry power from far away.

2 January 2014 at 17:02  
Blogger Owl said...

If the EU spent more time improving the situation in the eastern countries then the idea of migrationg to.. wherever, wouldn't be so attractive.

It would be in our own interests to make life better in Romania or Bugaria.

To raise the money, all we have to do is fire 90% of our politicians (no-one will notice the difference), 99% of charities/NGOs, and, at least, 60% of the civil service.

Yes, that should do the trick nicely.

2 January 2014 at 17:02  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The Explorer
Vive la différence.
What is it, about a third of the population of France is made up of people of Russian and Polish origin.

2 January 2014 at 17:07  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Manfarang @ 16:57 & 17:07

I think we're talking at cross purposes here.

1. I was talking about remote parts of Scotland, not Glasgow and its suburbs. (Why the Easterhouse population is 97% Scottish is a separate issue; although the 1950's may have something to do with it: before the era of mass immigration).
In London 2012, more babies were born to non-British born parents than to indigenous-born parents. That's the sort of thing I had in mine.

2. I have French ancestors on my father's side of the family, and I used to live in France part of the year. But who makes up the French population is not my point. The relative population density is.
There are four times as many people per square mile in Britain as there are in France.

2 January 2014 at 17:27  
Blogger Manfarang said...

On 4 July 2013, in the light of remaining risks to its balance of payments, the Romanian authorities requested a third EU medium-term financial assistance programme, again jointly with an IMF Stand-By Arrangement.
The EU is giving emergency aid to Bulgaria to help that country with its influx of Syrian refugees.

2 January 2014 at 17:28  
Blogger Manfarang said...

5% of the population of the Republic of Ireland lives in London and they would add to the non-British birth rate.
I know you were talking about the glens but it can get wild in Esterhouse if they hear someone speaking with a different accent.

2 January 2014 at 17:38  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Manfarang: @ 17:38

1. Why gain independence from Britain, and then live in the capital city of the oppressor nation rather than your own? (Rhetorical question).

2. Some would say ALL Scotland is wild. (Tartan terror, and so on). I guessed you might be implying something of the sort, but thought I'd better not go there, given the delicate issue of Scottish independence...

2 January 2014 at 17:54  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

"I don't think the Romanians and Bulgarians are going to eat that white pudding like substance which is called bread in southern England... (Manfarang)

Not a chance. Here in Canada, back in the 70s when all that was available is that kind of a "bread," and we had to make our own, immigrants used to call the Anglos "Whitebread" and the Italians came up with "Mangia-cakes," i.e., cake eaters. With the internationalization of North American cuisine, the introduction of exotic grains and flours by the big mills and artisan breads by the big bakeries, the immigrant's children oddly enough took to the fluffy sweet stuff their parents rejected, a process which kicked-in sometime in the mid-80s. Now, these terms. "whitebread" and mangiacake" have all but disappeared from the lexicon of anyone under 50. A linguistic curiosity which your post reminded me of.

Yes, I forgot about the employment opportunities bit, Explorer. But now you have a bit of a bottle-neck happening which the low population districts you mention cannot alleviate. With no resource industries of any importance, a bottomed-out manufacturing sector and a weak agrarian infra-structure, all that's left is the service industry and the white collar sector. But you can't build or even maintain an economy with people selling imported crap from other countries to each other, or paying to scratch each other's backs. Education, the supposed solution, brings fewer rewards to individuals and the market place and is now yet another cash-cow for growing, privileged elites of civil service and union-protected fortunates. But even the "get good marks and get a nice government job" promise doesn't work anymore. Big troubles for you guys in the very near future, but we're right behind you, as the process is starting here too.

2 January 2014 at 17:54  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

I say Archbishop, today’s missal is definitely NOT the spirit old man !

Or is it ?

Perhaps you are laying it on thick, with a sprinkling of artificial concern. Making the best of a bad lot, rolling around in the mire that is the communist EU ? There is no better way to destroy a culture like the British culture than by moving around great numbers of foreign people. Why, look what similar achieved in imperial Rome at the collapse – they couldn’t even salvage their own language. And look at our inner cities now – Jamaican-English / Asian-English. The real thing is being lost by the day. New hybrids are developing, with English (the Latin of now) coming in second to West Indian patois and what multitude of Asian tongues are out there. And new codes of conduct too. Black drugs, crime and violence and Asian abuse of women, their own and indigenous, and their book of poison which rules over them.

Today’s image accompanying the post. This man doesn’t see two dearly beloved brothers. He sees two men out to take the jobs that by right belong to the valid citizens of the UK. He sees two men who will work for the minimum wage as they hotbed between shifts. And looking a bit deeper, he sees two men who are abused by what we used to call heartless capitalism – Land, Labour, Capital - whom, apparently are so important to kick start the economy with their scab labour, we will go down the pan without them. He also sees two men from an area of the EU which has failed and will continue to fail. He sees that regions future, the young, abandoning it for foreign climes, with our and their rulers blessing.

What is to become of Romania and Bulgaria then. Well, obviously they are no damn use to anybody at the moment, if they can’t retain their own people. And the EU obviously doesn’t want to know about saving them. So, we are left with putting the whole lot under the plough or perhaps one massive forest. In other words, just close them down like some power station that although still produces electricity, just doesn’t cut it with the EU regulations on emissions – one soot particle too many.

So if anybody was in any doubt where the welfare of the people of the EU stands, it’s well at the back…

2 January 2014 at 17:59  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Oh yes, now that we are continuing to flood the country with people who shouldn’t be here, we must have adequate accommodation to offer them. So, one is delighted that our chronic housing shortage has now ended. You know the one, where large towns and cities have lists that measure the wanting each in terms of thousands. That would be a hell of a lot of new build then. And not one bedroomed or two bedroomed flats either - REAL family homes for REAL Britons.

Of course, it might just be we are waiting on a million or so eastern Europeans to put them up cheaply for us at £6.31 an hour. We apparently now lacking the gumption to do it ourselves since this bloody EU has been around, or so our politicians would tell us.

These self serving Quisling bastards would have us believe if we left the EU we’d all have trouble breathing afterwards…

2 January 2014 at 18:00  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
A compassionate post. Yes the immigrants are all individuals and to be treated with a compassionate concern. We have a Bulgarian Christian lady looking after the ninety year old cantankerous mother-in-law.

Seriously though, I do hope that our border controls are taking not of how many are coming in. Ministers have said they had no idea of how many will come. Avoiding the truth will be a great cop out for them.

2 January 2014 at 18:18  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Inspector, a better, more stark and extreme analogy than Classical Rome is the fate of pre-Columbian civilizations. Large urban centres which were no longer based on industries or markets, but unproductive religious centres with their bloated bureaucracies. Few natural resources, no wheels for efficient transportation due to lack of draft animals and poor soil conditions. Acute shortage of potable water, poor soil conditions and depleted forests leaving little fuel for anything practical. Desperate make-work projects building useless pyramids and temples. An increasingly vegetarian, protein-poor agriculture which explains the desperation behind massive pseudo-ceremonial cannibalistic feasts as defeated peoples were hauled in not for slave labour or settlement, but as protein supplements.

2 January 2014 at 18:24  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The country is indeed flooded. I could see it from the train window.

"There is no better way to destroy a culture like the British culture than by moving around great numbers of foreign people."
Moving around people? That's a bit rich.What do you think the British did during the days of Empire.
In Burma of course a lot of the Indians and Chinese were forced out after the nationalisations of companies that followed independence.Even to this day this kind of sentiment persists.
But did all this result in improved conditions for the Burmese? It helped make what was once the richest country in SE Asia one of the poorest in the world.
Things are changing though Burma will be part of the Asean Ecomonic Community in 2015 with free movement of capital and skilled labour.

2 January 2014 at 18:30  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

O, and forgot to mention, Inspector: schools. Schools for artisans and craftsmen, philosophers, scribes, accountants, priests and whatnots. I think the mark of a civilization's impending doom is the appearance of full time, long term schools. When it becomes necessary to extend childhood and park a chunk of the population for longer and longer periods of increasingly irrelevant "education," the end is nigh.

2 January 2014 at 18:34  
Blogger David Hussell said...

As a muse, consider this.

It's a principle of Conservation Architecture to aim to introduce changes to encourage a place to become a better example, " of itself". So each place, each location not only retains its own distinctive character but improves, in ways that respect that original character. Sounds useful ?
It appeals to me and my way of doing physical "development". It's a conservative approach of course, respecting differences of place, culture, form and function. It's about organic growth.

The EU does the opposite.

It swamps economically mildly successful, but cramped countries, like the UK, with too many people. How ? From where ? Because it sucks the best, most energetic and most able, the ambitious types that all county's need to retain to fuel their growth, and improvement, out of the very places where they are most needed, leaving behind the old, the unskilled or the plain stick in the mud types.
Are both places improved ? Do we end up with a more equitable socialist dream ? No we do not. We end up with an over-heated, over-crowded place at one end of the continental land mass and a decaying, unambitious, declining place socially and economically at the other pole.
Could someone please explain to me how the hell this can be a good thing, in terms of human flourishing and happiness. To quote Jeremy Bentham, "Have we increased the sum of human happiness?" And that's just to apply a crudely utilitarian criteria, not a higher, more spiritual one.

This is just about smashing identity isn't it, to gain control over the confused and rootless ?
There's no respect in this for humanity is there ? If so please demonstrate that respect through envisaging a realistic, successful scenario.

A curse on their houses I say !

2 January 2014 at 18:49  
Blogger Manfarang said...

"[The EU] swamps economically mildly successful, but cramped countries, like the UK, with too many people"
How did West Germany have its economic miracle?

2 January 2014 at 18:58  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Manfang @ 16:40

No They'll be bringing their own.
You can't beat a nice fresh white crusty loaf sliced with strawberry jam and butter on as a treat.
And they might uset the disused Churches as doss houses.

2 January 2014 at 19:12  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Manfaring @ 18:58

That's an excellent question. I'll be interested in the opinions of others (if they emerge). My own impressions:

1. The Marshall Plan. Building of new industrial plant from scratch, rather than perpetuation of old, outdated smokestack industries.

2. Guest workers, rather than immigrants as such.

3. An education system that favoured content over process.

4. Not exporting its manufacturing base abroad.

5. Keeping a sense of family life and tradition.

2 January 2014 at 19:12  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Manfarag, re Germany: A rebuilt, new industrial base, US $, a competitive Cold War, US $, "seed capital" and commercial activity from American bases and personnel, US $, an industrious population with access to the US and surrounding weaker economies with consumer goods shortages and, voila, the Deutschmark.

2 January 2014 at 19:14  
Blogger Nick said...

Your Grace

Have no fear, nobody from this blog will be heading to the nearest airport armed with a baseball bat to greet the latest wave of migrants.

I would however, like to point out a few things. While I am sure the majority of Eastern Europeans are decent people, there are some, as in any culture, who are not so decent. According to a recent police report, in some areas of the UK one tenth of all crime is commited by Eastern Europeans. A recent study showed that a staggering 80% of cashpoint machine theft was commited by Romanians alone.

I suspect that many who come here have a more opportunistic spirit than those who stay at home. That may include the quest for honest work, and it may include the quest to exploit a generous benefit system, or to exploit our soft attitude to crime. Even those who come to do honest work are depriving locals of job opportunities and putting more pressure on already over-stretched public services. They also send their cash home, thereby removing it from the British economy

British people, stifled through political correctness, have no opportunity for mature debate on the issue, so they tend to resign themselves to being silent. They cannot even discuss the issue without being labelled racist.

The numbers of Romanians and Bulgarians arriving seems thankfully low at the moment. Let us hope it stays that way. They are people as you say, but so are the long-suffering British people who are tired of their home being used as a human warehouse

I would defend the dignity of anyone moving to this country as that is what Christ expects from us. We are all victims of the EU and the EU should receive the full wrath of the people through the ballot box.

But let's not be too dewy-eyed about those arriving here. They are getting a pretty good deal at the taxpayers expense

2 January 2014 at 19:38  
Blogger IanCad said...

Manfarang wrote:

"---although a lot of Irish people went to the west of Scotland in the past."

You'd better believe it!

"Scotland" translates as "Land of the Irish"

2 January 2014 at 19:47  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Manfaring @ 18.58

"How did WG have its economic miracle?"

I can't see any parallel at all with our present situation, but Explorer and Avi are about right in answering the question as it has been asked.

However I believe that WG struggled a lot to cope with the addition of the underdeveloped EG , not just in terms of creating more and modernized infrastructure, but in their attitude of passivity fostered by decades of socialist brain washing, expecting "them", someone higher up, to address all problems. The "initiative gap" remains I believe, but surely be diminishing with successive generations.
Germany always does what is best for Germany it seems to this observer. They are a canny, gifted and hard working bunch, and deserve to succeed but, not at other nation's cost, I believe. However to my delight the anti-EU party, which we hear little about of course, is coming along nicely.

2 January 2014 at 19:55  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Manfarang, dear fellow. The appearance of the British in far flung areas of the globe were a blessing for the indigenous people so living there. How could it not be so ? One understands when the Burmese were so gifted, they could be found in the the jungle, half naked, living the stone age life. Just look at you fellows now ! And no, it would not have come about naturally in time, by yourselves...

I say Avi, steady on, old man, it’s not quite that bleak. One feels if the UK can regain control of it’s governance, and with it, it’s borders, we will continue to be the 7th or whatever strongest economy in the world, and not some washed up island in a washed up continent of economic failure...

2 January 2014 at 20:02  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

That's the spirit, Inspector, it's not like Britannia has never faced a few challenges before.

I hope your spur of hope and energy wasn't due to worries about impending cannibalism? My guess is that you and I are too long in the tooth, too tough, too stringy and too pickled with scotch and seasoned with tobacco to appear as the Sunday dinner roast. On the other hand, minced into spicy Calabrese or lean Soppresatta salamis....

2 January 2014 at 20:16  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


On Germany: Everything The Explorer and both said, in reply to your question, is undoubtedly true. But on the specific point of how West Germany managed to square its economic miracle with EU membership, the answer is it didn't. The question never arose. The miracle came first, with Konrad Adenauer as chancellor and Ludwig Erhard as his Economy Minister for fourteen years (1949-63). The Adenauer government was indeed one of the prime movers behind the economic cooperation programme that eventually led to the European Union as it exists today. But at the beginning it was just a handful of specific cooperation mechanisms, in particular the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC), set up for the political purpose of eliminating the kind of rivalry between France and Germany in heavy industry that had been an important factor in the series of wars between them. The full-fledged supranational power of today is a comparatively recent creation.

2 January 2014 at 20:26  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Sorry, that should have read:
Everything that The Explorer and Avi Barzel both said ...

2 January 2014 at 20:29  
Blogger IanCad said...

Avi, Getting back to you:

If you could adjust to the strange driving habits over here -- A compulsion to move into the slow lane, an absolute phobia about overtaking on the inside, slipstreaming the lorry ahead to save gas and having your liver turned into sandwich fillingby driving a C/O then you would marvel at a land of unsurpassed loveliness.

You would, certainly, wonder as to how sixty millions of souls can fit into such a small island that, still yet, offers such vistas of uninhabited wildness.

Surely, you would also relish the vastly superior variety, flavour and cheapness of our agricultural bounty.

You could travel well metalled roads while listening to the national treasure that is BBC Radio 4. Howls of protest will bray, but, believe me guys; you won't miss it 'till it's gone.

Perhaps Avi, you should consider a Sabbatical.

We're down here in Dartmoor.
We could show you a real big dog.

2 January 2014 at 20:43  
Blogger IanCad said...

Somewhat peripherally to HG's post, I seem to remember an anecdote about Samuel Goldwyn, who, when offered a script, was warned off by one of his associates, who said that the public would never watch a movie about lesbians, to which Goldwyn responded: "Then call them Bulgarians."

2 January 2014 at 21:09  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

It is interesting you should mention cannibalism Avi, as there is evidence to suggest the practice took place in England before the Roman invasion. Thankfully, those short sword fellows put an end to that. And for that one and all should be truly grateful...

You see, it’s never been about petty nationalism for the Inspector. It’s all about civilisation and standards. As some insightful communicant put it the other day as such – It’s not that FGM and other disgraces take place in the world. It’s that they are now taking place HERE.

Same thing with the recent cult of homosexuality. The promiscuity, the disease so resulting, the drugs used and the pornography. The predation. Desperate state of affairs – the standards of wild dogs. They consume themselves and expect our blessing. Cannibalism dressed up for today, don’t you think ?

2 January 2014 at 21:10  
Blogger grumpyoldcl said...

Nick @19:38

If we pay these Eastern Europeans minimum wage then perhaps the crime is not to do with the type of people they are but more to do with paying them a poverty and their fight for survival.

2 January 2014 at 21:59  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Ok it is the DM; but if true, will the events in Sheffield just be the tip of the proverbial iceberg - the natives are getting restless.

2 January 2014 at 22:02  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

The fact is as I see it they are here

They want to work

(There will be trouble if they don't find work, or others lose out because they do)

So lets give them some work to do. (We waste enough money paying people to do nothing)

We have an influx of keen young workers.

Lets at last change the way we have operated as a country for the last 40 years.

For sure the current way has no future.


2 January 2014 at 22:41  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Ah, IanCad, my wife and I have been thinking about a UK trip lately. God-willing our finances will improve for such. She has family in England, Wales and Scotland, people she has not seen since she was 14. I once spent 7 hours in England, switching planes between Heathrow and Gatwick. Wanted to glimpse London, but was warned about getting held up by traffic and so, my sight of England was limited to all I could see from the inter-airport coach. A lush, hedgerowed country-side with neat hamlets, everything pretty and sculpted, unlike our messy, spread-out habitations amidst huge billboards, charater-less office towers, squat factories and tacky mega-malls. My heart ached when I saw a sign for Hampton Court at a crossroads, without even a glimpse of the warm red carved brick palace I would have loved to wander around for days. My dream: A house boat vacation on the canals along the route of Jerome Klapka Jerome's Three Men in a Boat. God willing.

The Pagan tribes of Europe all practiced cannibalism, Inspector. A function of inability to use war captives as slaves or to incorporate them and chronic hunger. But I can agree with you about the cult of unrestrained sexuality, which has included homosexuality and which is now being imposed on our children from everywhere; the market, the media and the schools. To each his own, but stay out of my face and away from my kids, I say. Hard to describe the mix of anger and pride when told by our private school that our youngest simply stood up and left the classroom without explanation when a nurse from the Ministry of Health (health!) came for a surprise visit to discuss sexual diseases, masturbation, preteen dating and the options for sex change and same sex relations to an astonished group of 11 and 12year old girls from sound families and good homes. It's not that our kid doesn't know about any of this. She doesn't live in a cultural cocoon and it would be irresponsible of us not to arm her with knowledge about her body and the dangers and perversions out there. But discussing such gross dirt in public, without a forewarning and under the direction of a brassy matron was embarrassing and repulsive to her. "Undignified," she explained. So she simply walked away and gently closed the door behind her. I know "professionals" may disagree, but I suspect she'll be fine without knowing how to slip a condom on a banana, without a list of phone numbers and addresses to the nearest LGBT youth clubs or where the nearest abortion clinic is.

2 January 2014 at 22:54  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Avi, Happy Jack salutes your young daughter. Not only a budding entrepreneur but also courageous in the face of perversion. Jack suspects many of the Romanians and Bulgarians about to visit our shores will share these views. Jack wonders why on earth so many parents put up with all this and stay silent. He knows Muslims wouldn't and don't.

2 January 2014 at 23:08  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! Here in Barchester, in the spirit of modern times, we are braced to welcome migrants from, Ankh Morpork and Mordor. I doubt if any of the new arrivals will be won over by Anglicanism, and I'm curious to know if the Morporkians are halal. My Lord the Bishop has appointed Mr. Slope as Diocesan Diversity Outreach Coordinator, offering a firm handshake and a winsome smile. He says he likes a good goblin but I didn't enquire further. He's invited Mr. Vaz to join him for coffee on Saturday. I shall ensure the servants double up on antimacassars in preparation for the event.

2 January 2014 at 23:13  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

When Happy Jack said this: "Happy Jack suspects many of the Romanians and Bulgarians about to visit our shores will share these views.", he meant they do not share the 'sexual health' and 'diversity' views that permeate our public sector.

Mrs Proudie, Happy Jack would not trust Mr Slope to reach out to any new arrival or to embark upon diverse coordination.

2 January 2014 at 23:42  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

I assure you, Happy Jack, that the Bulgarians and Roumanians will swear loudly and spit on the ground upon hearing that their kids have to sit through such garbage in class. Perhaps they will inject a bit of spine to their host societies.

But after that incident with my daughter, the word I had with her is that in this day and age she will have to learn to pretend acceptance, to learn the appropriate PC platitudes without curling her lips or rolling her eyes and to keep her opinions to herself. She is a shy, quiet kid, not a trail-blazer, a Joan of Arc type, and I've heard about the harassment kids who don't "celebrate" state-approved perversions have to endure in the high schools and universities. A good friend's young boy, in a "progressive" public school, refused to join his class for a pizza lunch in the newly mandated LGBT Friendship Club at his school and a social worker called the parents, nudging for a home visit, to make sure that "everything is alright." But of course it wasn't alright, the family is...gasp... Pentecostal, a faith detrimental to the healthy sexual development of a modern child. What's worse, the family attends church regularly, the only one on their street to do so, and the children wear proper dresses and suits to services like little freaks...a clear sign of abusive and controlling parents, monsters really, from whom the children must be saved.

3 January 2014 at 00:03  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Avi, Happy Jack says Hitler understood the importance of controlling schools. In fact, Jack recalls reading the laws he introduced about mandatory state schooling are still in force in Germany. Communism also grasped the importance of state control of schools and family life. What we see today is the 'liberals' having learned and developed the cultural weapons of fascism and communism.

Jack doesn't know the best approach to children in these perverse times. Strong family life and a strong faith life are the only defence. Jack asks, should we just appease and stay silent? There is a cultural war going on and people have to take a stand. If every person who disagreed with all this diversity and sexual freedom craziness withdrew their children from such 'lessons' what could the state do?

Jack says, we have to take a stand against evil.

3 January 2014 at 00:13  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Jack, strong faith and family life is only the beginning. But without a solid community with geographic centers, with a backbone and teeth, it's not enough. My Pentecostal friends can and will be harassed because they are on their own; a religious family in secular suburbia.

Even though the "health" visit is mandatory even in private schools, the public nurse at my daughter's school knew better than to take issue with our daughter's non-compliance, for now at least, as she and the health board would have been served with suits and motions aided by pro bono counsel and funds and publicity from our strong community. Here, in Toronto, they still tread lightly, flexing their muscle only where resistance is weak. You Christians will have to learn how to be Jews, I'm afraid.

3 January 2014 at 00:27  
Blogger Manfarang said...

The Explorer et al
I think Britain received much more Marshall Aid than West Germany and it had American military bases.
In East Germany the Russians took a lot of what was left of its industrial equipment but they went on to become the world's 10th industrial state.
Britain seems to lack the right spirit so I don't think it will thrive outside the EU.
I think you should take your holiday in Burma, the weather is very nice at this time of year, and find out something of the history of Burma and its peoples.

3 January 2014 at 01:08  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


Children have to attend school in Germany. Homeschooling is not allowed. A family near where we live had their children taken away briefly and then fled to the US.

My experience at the younger age (as the older children attended UK Boarding schools) is that it works well and is a nice experience for children. My youngest (4) attends a lovely kindergarten with "outside day" at least one a week, regardless of the weather. We take her there every day without breakfast, they play outside for an hour and then come in and prepare their own breakfast at around 9am. She is certainly growing up fit and healthy.

Classes are small, really well disciplined and parents are always welcome. Christmas was different, the children just sang songs and made little biscuits and herbal tea for the parents to consume. My daughter was bursting with pride at the little cakes and biscuits she had made for each table.

I am not sure that it is compulsion as such, but a lack of state control and pressure on the curriculum and outcomes in Germany that makes it work well. We pay £150 a month more for this Kindergarten than a purely state one and this is another difference. In the UK if you go private, you bear all the costs yourself. In Germany, you keep the measure of state spending that your child is entitled to, so the extra that you pay for better is not an enormous burden financially.

For younger kids, (remember I have only experienced the system for young kids) I like the low pressure, small group morning only approach. I think it builds healthy children. There are independent schools in Germany, mostly in English. However, it says a lot that even the rich parents nearly 100% tend to send their kids to the local state schools. What percentage of rich parents do that in the UK?

We need to fight the one size fits all approach of Ofsted in the UK and keep schools small. Really small. Currently they are exam factories and consequently, a massive waste of money.


3 January 2014 at 01:36  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Avi, Happy Jack agrees Church community effort is needed. And yet Christian churches are all so divided and weakened.

Jack doesn't agree with acceptance of evil or that we should teach our children "to learn to pretend acceptance, to learn the appropriate PC platitudes."

Jack says if this is true, "You Christians will have to learn how to be Jews", then we will need to follow the example of the Maccabeans and fight back.

3 January 2014 at 02:43  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Jack doesn't agree with acceptance of evil or that we should teach our children "to learn to pretend acceptance, to learn the appropriate PC platitudes."

Those are mighty fighting words, Jack, and I sympathize with your strong feelings on this, but there are several points I must make.

First, this not about "acceptance of evil." The Health Ministry Nurse was not overtly promoting, much less forcing improper acts. One can object to the impropriety of tackling such issues in schools by figures of authority, but that is a different matter, a different battle. This is merely about my daughter who is neither of age, maturity level or temperament to take on a Provincial board of health, as well as a politico-religious principle and to fight for it. Moreover, it's not for me to "arm" and encourage her to attempt to change a system, which in a democratic country, is presumably acceptable to the majority. The possibility that most parents out there feel, rightly or wrongly, that their children need such instruction and that schools should manage it, cannot be discounted.

What's at issue is a parent's and a maturing child's right to decline such instruction and to prefer to seek advice from their community. In practical terms, an arrangement has been made for us to be informed beforehand about such visits, so that she can avoid them, rather than having to be put on the spot by walking out of the class. Her school has been sympathetic and helpful in this.

The other point is that in a radicalized climate in which there is little or no backup for one's position or opposition, one has three choices; appear to comply, fight and attempt to make changes or leave. She cannot leave the school system until she is 16...nor would she or we want her to. The fighting bit is not her job, at least not at this time; it's her parents' but only if they do not adversely affect her. That we have done, but with her as the primary beneficiary of our "activism," not as partisans out to change things for everyone else.

This leaves appearance of compliance which is really nothing more in this case than advising her to hold her tongue, being courteous to others' views and self-identification and not to be preachy (a weakness of hers at this time). It's not her job, ethically or religiously, to evangelize others, especially not before she is ready to do so.

Jack says if this is true, "You Christians will have to learn how to be Jews", then we will need to follow the example of the Maccabeans and fight back.

Hmm, an interesting choice of examples, Jack; I didn't see this one coming. But your Maccabees I and II will show you that Matisyahu and his sons fought primarily against the Jewish Hellenists who dragged the Greeks into suppressing Judaism in Jerusalem and Israel. They were doing this in their homeland and did not set out to change the Greek's religion or attitudes, but to remove a threat against themselves.

What I meant by "being Jews" is to learn to how to function and even thrive as a minority in hostile environments by staying true to one's traditions and by expending serious resources to carve out at least minimal rights.

So again, I see your points, Jack, and I'dlike to think that if it was me who is threatened I'd be at the ramparts, but it's not a battle I can or should fight by placing my kid in the front ranks.

3 January 2014 at 05:56  
Blogger Mike Stallard said...

"And they are people."

Yup. Russians and Latvians and Lithuanians and Romanians and Bulgarians are all different. Would you believe it? Even Hungarians.
And, do you know what, they are all human too and have serious flaws which are different not only to each other but also to our own.
Even their sense of humour varies.

But the Roma are a very different matter. Have you had the pleasure yet yourself? Just check your pockets afterwards...

3 January 2014 at 06:51  
Blogger Mike Stallard said...

"And they are people."

Yup. Russians and Latvians and Lithuanians and Romanians and Bulgarians are all different. Would you believe it? Even Hungarians.
And, do you know what, they are all human too and have serious flaws which are different not only to each other but also to our own.
Even their sense of humour varies.

But the Roma are a very different matter. Have you had the pleasure yet yourself? Just check your pockets afterwards...

3 January 2014 at 06:51  
Blogger Nick said...

A taste of things to come? Border police have arrested a group of Romanians who set up a "shanty" town at Marble Arvh after complaints from local businesses

One of them openly admitted she had only come here to get feee NHS treatment.

3 January 2014 at 07:58  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Manfarang @ 01:08

Your question of 18:58, as phrased, was specific to Germany.

Comparison with Britain changes the emphasis. I imagine Germany could focus on itself, while Britain had an empire to dismantle.

But it's a huge topic, and I, for one, am not going to go there.

3 January 2014 at 08:44  
Blogger ENGLISHMAN said...

Turn the other cheek if you will,accept the unacceptable,but Christ did not say let everyone wipe their feet on you,he pointed out our obligations to our fellow man,our kinfolk,and our nation.What is the benefit to the English people of allowing hordes of foreigners into our country simply because they have run out of people to rob,rape and murder in their own countries,and who all cry foul when more ungrateful savages move into the vacuum that they have left behind?We are not all the same,which is why independant nations arose in the first place,and to turn my country into a zoo,robs both me and my decendants of any kind of civilised future,the more countries that are broken up in this way simply produces more barbarians,why are we swaping our first class society,our common sense regulations,our civilisation,for a brutal inferior one,where one has to fight for everything from seeing a doctor to getting on a bus,no-one says "good morning" anymore,all that you get if anything at all is an animal grunt,the money snatched from your hand,and change practically thrown at you,if you are not waived away because they are to busy with their phone call.We only get the dross,the enterprenuers that make businesses and money do not move,indeed their profits increase since they do not have the impediment of the indolent,but we are expected to suck it up and pretend that it is a joy,does it not say somewhere in the Bible ,"yield to all and soon you will have nothing left to yield"?

3 January 2014 at 10:06  
Blogger Martin said...


If you walk down the main shopping street of my town on a busy Saturday you will hear a number of languages. We have two Polish shops where the labelling and goods are in Polish and the staff speak to each other in Polish.

Now what you think about this is up to you, but it illustrates the change that has occurred.

3 January 2014 at 10:14  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Nothing new. There has been a Polish community in the UK since WW2. In my student days I knew a number of ist generation Poles and a student from Poland itself.
I also knew a Polish ex-soldier who was a great admirer of Winston Churchill. One Polish shop owner would have his daughters dress in Polish national dress on special occasions. Of course his customers weren't Polish!
I see there is Polish sauerkraut in the supermarkets now.

3 January 2014 at 11:12  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Around the mid-twentieth century, when a fuss was being made (on both sides of the argument) about the newly introduced road signs in Welsh, someone quoted a statistic which, as far as I know, was accurate: in the UK as a whole, including Wales, there were at that time more Polish speakers than Welsh speakers.

3 January 2014 at 11:28  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Many of those Polish soldiers who remained in Britain after WW2 became part of the Polish Resettlement Corps.
Due to the high number of Poles in the PRC, they were seen as significant competition by some British left-wing labour leaders. An anti-Polish campaign by the Trades Union Congress and leading trade unions turned public opinion against the Poles.
By 1949 the corps had mostly ceased to function. About 150,000 Polish soldiers and their dependents settled in the United Kingdom, forming a significant part of the Polish community.

3 January 2014 at 12:03  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

I remember, as a teenager, being taken by friends to a Polish bookshop, which occupied just one first-floor room, though quite a large one, somewhere in the Chelsea or Fulham area, I think it was. I recall very clearly my surprise when the proprietor told me that Joseph Conrad was originally Polish. I'd never read anything by Conrad at the time, though the name was familiar.

3 January 2014 at 12:30  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...


Germany has always been the economic powerhouse of Europe since it was united in 1871,to me it is one of the greatest tragedies, mysteries even, of Hitler's Germany was that it happened in one of the most educated, economically advanced polities in the world.

With total defeat in 1945 and allied occupation, aside from having to build a country from ash , Western Germany at least could focus all of that economic prowess not on war, thanks to the American strategic nuclear umbrella, dollops of US dollars (Marshall plan etc), but on economic self advancement.... until Germany reunified and had to deal with the crippling effects of 50 years of socialism enforced on east Germany.

3 January 2014 at 12:35  
Blogger The Explorer said...


Our glorious social theorists who loathed existing British values and sought to demolish them succeeded so well that their successors are not quite sure how to cope with the result.

3 January 2014 at 12:47  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

David K

Yes, all that, and don't forget the constitution, the Grundgesetz or "fundamental law", drawn up by British and American specialists with some input, though not a lot, from German nationals.

3 January 2014 at 12:49  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 January 2014 at 13:01  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

The form of EU immigration is to do with economics and wanting to get richer, rather than immigrants fleeing wars or persecution (curiously Farage is saying that Syrians should be allowed to come to Britain, precisely because they are not economic migrants).

In this context the debate over immigration is all to do with where you are in the economic food chain. If you are at the bottom, you are going to see this as appalling as the new immigrants are going to compete with you and potentially put you out of a job.

I make this claim about immigrants competing with the working classes, because the well educated 'foreigner' who comes over to the UK- should they wish to do so- and they might not as they probably do well in their own country, is simply not great enough in numbers to complete with the middle or professionals. Indeed the bar is even higher and they still have a long way to go if they wish to continue professions here, once they step foot on UK soil. For example to practice medicine,you have to complete exams, even if you were qualified elsewhere. So if nothing else this automatically means you need to be fluent in English. Likewise to be a solicitor, you'd need to have grasp of English law, have relevant qualifications etc etc.

If you are in a position where you are not competing for jobs, then you can take an urbane and liberal approach here and talk about the enrichment of diversity and tar anyone who disagrees as a backwoodsmen/racist.

If you are in the middle of these two assumptions, as I think most of us here are, then on the one hand you will be concerned about the social consequences of immigration - 'community cohesion', probably don't mind on the jobs front, but be secretly praying you don't get one in your neighbourhood. But at the same time, you will probably verge towards the urbane and liberal outlook as you don't see that it affects you too much,except for when you buy a coffee at costa or get your bread from waitrose.

So, without being Marxist, it seems that the debate about immigration is class dynamics and politics, quite simply. You can see that because no-one here is complaining about the fact that London is one of the largest French and Russian speaking cities in Europe, thanks to the multi-million pound tax exiles, who buy football clubs for pressies.

3 January 2014 at 13:12  
Blogger David Hussell said...

David K @13.12

I think there's a lot in what you say. Which makes it even more curious as to why the Labour Party, is now, although not in it's history, so unthinkingly pro-EU an therefore endless immigration, and ever dwindling wages, for its voters ! I believe that their starry eyed internationalist socialism doctrine is blinding them to the reality of the jobs market. So we have, as I said at the almost top of this thread, a strange combination of free market capitalism with socialist internationalism, presumably ? How odd.
No one, in the traditional parties, appears to be thinking about the welfare of the Brits or social cohesion. As wages are depressed living standards are propped up by welfare, paid for by taxpayers. So instead of workers having the dignity of being self supporting for themselves and their families they, even those in work, have the less pleasant situation of being supported, in part, by welfare. Suits Labour of course to have a grateful captive band of voters, but strange that Conservatives go along with this ?
Or is it ? If they listen to the businesses that benefit from cheap labour more than their own (former) members it makes some sort of sense. But again if less welfare was paid out Corporation
Tax too could be lowered ! What circularity - all madness ! It's the politics of the madhouse.

3 January 2014 at 13:43  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

David K

I'm sorry to keep rattling on about things that happened half a century ago, but even back then there was a clear class distinction in objections to what was already seen then as too much immigration. West Indians migrated mainly into the working class (recruited by London Transport as Tube drivers, for example, or getting jobs as factory workers or garage mechanics) and Indians into the middle class, often as shopkeepers or others owning their own small businesses. As a result, antagonism to immigration among native Brits was nearly always either one thing or the other: some people objected to Indians but couldn't care less about Trinidadians and Jamaicans, while with others it was the other way round.

3 January 2014 at 13:51  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Happy Jack says we should impose some sort of tax on those who employ East European at the expense of local people. The only 'winners' in this is international companies who aren't bothered about the social cost or the cost to the health, education and welfare benefit system in Britain. Jack understands some companies advertise in Romania and Bulgaria and Poland because they can get cheap labour there.

3 January 2014 at 14:01  
Blogger The Explorer said...

David H @ 13:12

"blinding them to the reality of the jobs market." Exactly so.

That episode when Brown was PM. 2009, I think it was. Italians were brought in to construct something because their firm undercut the British bid. Perfect EU thinking, but it generated placards about British jobs for British workers. And protests to a LABOUR PM.

3 January 2014 at 14:01  
Blogger Welshcakes Limoncello said...

Well said. Happy New Year to you.

3 January 2014 at 14:26  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

A note for your amusement, Your Grace....thought you should hear it from me first.

Very early this morning my street located in Toronto's Upper Village neighbourhood awoke to very loud, window-shaking booms, bright flashes and eventually the appearance of several police and fire vehicles. I had a bit of trouble getting out the front door to gawk at what the hullaballoo is about, as solid ice covered the door seal.

For the record, I had nothing to do with any of this. This time. It turns out we are witnessing a rare phenomenon, known as "ice quakes" in the vernacular, or cryoseism to the eggheads. These happen after serious ice storms and rapid drops from above zero to very cold temperatures (-20 C during the night). Wiki has a brief background on this weirdness for anyone considering moving to Canada to avoid the much-feared Roumanian-Bulgarian invasion:

3 January 2014 at 14:31  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! The Archdeacon has just stumbled across a makeshift encampment in the North transept of Barchester Cathedral. It seems a group of Ruritanians sneaked in during the night and are demanding food. The poor box has been forced open and some of the pews used as faggots. Naturally the Archdeacon called the Beadle, but the latter consulted his handbook and said there was nothing he could do according to the Anglo-Ruritanian Treaty of 1377 guaranteeing freedom of movement between literary genres. The Archdeacon exploded, telling the Beadle that the treaty was an absolute fiction, but the Beadle was unmoved and the Ruritanians laughed. They are a manly, dark-haired and swarthy lot - Mr. Slope is much taken with them. There's a glint in his eye that I haven't seen before.

3 January 2014 at 14:32  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Are you sure there isn't a FEMALE eye with a glint in it, Mrs Proudie?

3 January 2014 at 14:45  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

An update on the icequake.

Donning a parka and warm boots, I braved the elements to check the around the house for any tremor damage and it is my sad duty to report that a beloved, albeit much neglected recyclables bin which had accumulated water, cracked irreparably, with a dirty ice lens breaking right through the bottom. Services will be held this Saturday night after the Sabbath. Scotch and herring will be served. In lieu of flowers, guests are urged to create as much CO2 as they can, in the hope of bringing on the much-promised, but very elusive, global warming.

3 January 2014 at 14:50  
Blogger Nick said...

Mrs Proudie

Be glad they were not from Transylvania. They would hsve been looking for more than a handy faggot. I hear they come over for dental implants on the NHS and save money on accommodation by sleeping in coffin s. Frightens the life out of the poor undertake r.

3 January 2014 at 14:55  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

David H,

For all the talk of Tory Toffs, I'd say that the three main parties have leadership from the same educational and social background; Oxbridge, upper middle class, metropolitan outlook of the world. Small "c" liberals in effect. Hence why labour is blindly pro-EU, the conservatives voted in gay marriage and the liberal democrats, despite their apparent centre left ideology can happily sit in coalition with an apparent party who has centre-right ideology.

This is all well and good and probably nothing new under the sun, but there does feel like a disconnect here. Frankly can't stand any of them. I loath this government like I've loathed no other, so they won't get my vote next time.

3 January 2014 at 15:02  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Mrs Proudie. Happy Jack informs you the Roma people have a King in Romania. It was a Florin Tănase Cioabă until he died in August 2013. Jack has read he was a Romanian Romani Pentecostal Minister and was crowned king in an Orthodox Cathedral. there was a terrible scandal when he forced his 12 year old daughter into a forced marriage and she was made to have sex with a 15 year old. Jack understands someone called John Kyle (doesn't sound very European?) is their king now.

Jack advises, Slope needs to exercise caution if he is mingling amongst these people. He could lose more than his loose change.

3 January 2014 at 15:03  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Really, Avi. An "Ice quake." That's the best you can do. Been playing around with that weather control device again, haven't you. Decided you didn't need to read the instruction manual. Oh, when the Mrs finds out, she is gonna have a fit.

He: "Really, Dear. It was an ice quake."

She: [icy glare]

He: [smiles innocently]

She: "Then what is that doing out of the closet?"

He: "Oh that. I had to move it to get my boots. You know, to see the ice quake."

She: "Well, you and your boots can go clean off my porch. And don't touch that machine again."


3 January 2014 at 15:03  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Avi Barzel

These happen after serious ice storms and rapid drops from above zero to very cold temperatures (-20 C during the night). Wiki has a brief background on this weirdness for anyone considering moving to Canada ...

Avi, this one of the moments when it occurs to me that there's a lot to be said, after all, for living where I do, in Brazil. On the coldest night of the year, usually in May or June, the temperature may momentarily (say around 4 a.m.) drop to as low as 20°C (70°F). At the other extreme, at the height of summer (now), even with the blazing sun directly overhead it never rises any higher than about 30°C (85°F). On the one hand, no such thing as heating bills; on the other, you never really need air conditioning, either, although some people claim that they can't sleep without it.

3 January 2014 at 15:04  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Uncle Brian, Brazil? Happy Jack says you lucky dog! Are you a criminal on the run? Jack has had one or two adventures in your country of residence.

3 January 2014 at 15:30  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 January 2014 at 15:31  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

Uncle Brian,

"Too much immigration" is another part of the issue here. In the days you talk about, Britain could (and eventually did) pass various laws to restrict immigration. Being a key member of the EU we cannot do so today, we cannot restrict the flow of immigration from EU states to suit the UK's economic needs as it is part of the various treaties we've signed up to.

I also believe that unquestioned mass economic migration, makes it more difficult for Britain to politically or physically accept refugees who are fleeing persecution in their own countries(such as Christians in the middle east) which is what Britain did in the past. My family being a past example of that, except we were Jews fleeing Iraq because of religious & racial hate.

3 January 2014 at 15:34  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Carl, you jest, but after reporting the incident to my wife, with the boyish excitement of a zoologist who'd just discovered a new genus of land snails, a drop in the mood and what I call a Cascade Event followed, whereby my wife scolded me for my slovenliness and moved on rattling out an alarmingly long list of problems I must look after in the back yard. She wouldn't send a Siberian Husky out in this cold; me, that's another matter.

Uncle Brian, Brazil? Wow. I thought it much hotter there, as all the National Geographic articles show people in alarming stages of undress. Still, much too warm for me, especially for sleeping, and I would seriously miss the Winters here. Strange, but I like snow and the cold. Very clean and clears the streets and neighbourhoods of loafers.

3 January 2014 at 15:35  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...


I wouldn't celebrate the demise of your recycling bin before you check the small print. When our recycle wheelie bin broke, I was told we'd have to pay to replace it (£500). Bloody cheek I know, but that's local councils for you.

3 January 2014 at 15:41  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

'Cryoseism', btw, sounds like something out of science fiction, as in the idea of being frozen when you're dead with the possibility of being revived in the future...

3 January 2014 at 15:43  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Uncle Brian @ 15.04

What an amazing climate ! It's all very equable and agreeable.

You're near the coast aren't you, and within a tropical / equatorial climatic zone ?

So you've got fairly constant dollops of incoming energy and with the advantage of the oceanic effect smoothing out the diurnal temperature fluctuations ? Am I close ?
Any significant fluctuations in cloud cover ? Rainy season ?

3 January 2014 at 15:46  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

David K, with prices like these for recyclable bins, what will likely happen is that some of the newcomers will begin "disappearing" bins from curb-sides and re-selling at a "good price" for, say £200. Hey, wait a minute, why wait for others? I qualify for immigration to the UK now. Gotta go....

3 January 2014 at 15:54  
Blogger David Hussell said...


Icequakes !

You can get similar effects in continental europe too, but not often here, as we lack the size of land mass to cause violent oscillations and instability of air masses.
In middle european summers intense heating can cause rapid upwards movements. Water droplets, which would have simply formed boring old rain, are accelerated upwards and then downwards, in cycles, until eventually they are released as very big ice drops or super sized hailstones. I saw a spectacular one in what was then Czechoslovakia still, 40 years ago. It was scary and we had to run like hell to get into shelter - good fun though ! Highly recommended !

3 January 2014 at 15:55  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 January 2014 at 16:17  
Blogger David Hussell said...

David K @ 15.02

I agree. It's becoming widely acknowledged now that , at the top, we have "leaders" ( EU cyphers ) drawn from such a narrow band of upper middle class types that they have zero empathy and even less understanding of the lives, beliefs, hopes and aspirations of everyone else.
So these EU cyphers continue talking to ......... themselves, and their policies leave everyone else feeling as if the top echelon comes from the Planet Zog. Hence the disrespect for "our" ( read their ) top tier politicians.
I'm looking forward to receiving and reading Peter Mair's allegedly insightful book published posthumously ( his friend Francis Mulhern arranged publication ) entitled,
"Ruling the Void : The Hollowing of Western Democracy". This hits the proverbial nail on its head I'm told.
Mind I still have five months of my Theology Degree to finish, which I'd better restart asap.

3 January 2014 at 16:18  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 January 2014 at 16:28  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 January 2014 at 16:33  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...


Ah well, my recycling wheelie bin is safe and secure, more locks on it than Reading gaol, at least I hope. Nah, I'm sure it will still be there when I get back on Monday, but that type of arrangement is typical of urban councils.

I've recently joined the ranks of the property owning elite, with a purchase of second home, a modest former Rectory, which might have seen better days and needs one or two minor improvements (such as central heating). I've notice though that in the rural areas you get a weekly collection an 52 bin-bags, which is much better.

Anyway, better be off now, as it is getting close to sunset. Picked up Hannah and Rachel from the airport earlier and they are bursting to tell me all about their month long travels within Israel, Spain and Morocco (I guess it gives us a lot to talk about).


3 January 2014 at 16:34  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

David Hussell

Yes, of course, Brazil is a very big country with a wide range of climates. There are places (one or two, anyway) where it even snows for a week or two every year, or most years. Southern Brazil is on the same latitude as South Africa. Where I live now, which is much further north (latitude 8°S), the narrow band of variation in temperature is more obvious here, an hour's drive inland from the coast, though at an altitude of only about 100 metres, than it would be at the seaside. It's also very humid.

The rainy season here is in winter, say from mid-May through to the end of September or beginning of October. In São Paulo, where I previously lived for many years, it's what I believe is called a monsoon climate, with rainy summers (November to February or March) and dry, cold winters. Some years in São Paulo, in May and June, it happened that people would keep their overcoats on all day, both at home and at the office, since the buildings are not designed to keep the cold out.

3 January 2014 at 16:40  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

David Hussell

since the buildings are not designed to keep the cold out.

Older buildings, I mean. If you live or work in a more recent building, you're okay.

3 January 2014 at 16:54  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

David H, I recall a nasty hailstorm in Prague the year we skipped off, in 1969, but there were a few before too if I recall. So long, long, ago....

David K, greetings to the ladies and a Shabbat shalom to you and all. Time for me to do the shop and start dinner. That weird time zone thing again...gets me every time. Between us we are proving that the Earth is spherical. We should co-write a journal paper.

3 January 2014 at 16:56  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness,dear David Kavanagh, you have bought a rectory? Don't tell me the Quiverfuls of Puddingdale have alienated Church property on the quiet? Don't let the Ruritanians know that your second home stands empty during the week or you will have squatters.

3 January 2014 at 17:23  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Uncle Brian,

Many thanks for confirmation and further climatological enlightenment.

Brazil has a burgeoning economy too. When in Peru five years back I saw the roads they were constructing plunging down off the Andes into the Amazonian rain forest below, all intended to carry trucks to and from economically vibrant Brazil, the emerging South American economic powerhouse. The big debate was whether, in the schools, they should teach not English (American style) as the second language, but Portuguese. I'm not sure where that debate ended.

3 January 2014 at 18:02  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Happy Jack

Hello again, Jack. I’ve only just spotted your comment posted at 15:30. Yes, I remember you telling me about your Brazilian adventures. The only recent event here that comes even remotely close to qualifying as an “adventure” was when we saved the life of a newborn baby sloth that fell out of a tree in our garden, a month or two ago. My own part in the proceedings was a very modest one―I kept the dogs indoors while other people carried the mother first, and then the baby, to safety in an adjoining patch of (quite literally) jungle. It was one of our dogs, called Ben, who first discovered the baby sloth. He was sniffing at it from a distance of only an inch or two when I snatched him away before he could do it any harm.

David Hussell

David, I think that economic powerhouse business needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's an old―very old―aphorism, "Brazil is the country of the future, and always will be."

3 January 2014 at 19:26  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Good Lord, Avi. One is quite shocked to read of your daughter’s unwarranted school day exposure to what we chaps would have called 40 years ago, ‘The Pox Nurse’.

How standards have slipped, thanks to the damned secularists…

3 January 2014 at 20:19  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Uncle Brian @ 19.26

I like the aphorism - point taken. Many thanks for the invaluable local knowledge.

There's no substitute for eyeballing a place yourself to get a feel of it, is there ? Some country's media project an image that they want to distribute to the rest of the world. I could give other examples but the last glass of red wine has done for me !

3 January 2014 at 20:32  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


"THE pox nurse"


Another one to remember along with "the travesty of marriage act"

Silly, juvenile, but it makes the point.

Irritates them and everyone gets the point across without long winded arguments, that nobody listens to nowadays.


4 January 2014 at 00:23  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Inspector, Happy Jack does not know the circumstances your childhood but where he was raised the person in question was referred to as 'The Sexual Health Nurse'. And very uplifting talks she gave too. After these Jack can assure you all us lads were left in no doubt about the satisfactory state of said health.


4 January 2014 at 01:33  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

’The migration of destitute Roma - often whole families - to Western Europe from Romania and Bulgaria has created one of the biggest challenges for the EU since the two countries joined the bloc in 2007.

The European Commission has castigated France over the mass deportations, while France says it is acting to curb crime and accuses Romania of failing to integrate Roma, many of whom are marginalised and desperately poor. Europe has 10-12 million Roma, more than a million of whom live in Romania’.

The European Commission has recognised that there is a nation without a country (sound familiar?) and has asked the EU's 27 member states to submit national strategies by the end of this year aimed at raising the living standards of Roma.

Anyone heard anything from HMG?

Roma are deemed to be especially ‘disadvantaged’ in education, healthcare, housing and access to jobs, the commission says. French deportations of Roma to Romania and Bulgaria last year triggered sharp criticism in the EU. One EU survey found that only 42% of Roma children completed primary school.

Six EU countries, also estimated Roma attendance in secondary education to be only 10%. Closer to home but deliberately left off the MSM radar, is the negative impact Slovakian Roma are having in one small area of Sheffield engaged in the process of Roma clan settlement. Ironic really that even a blind man (Blunkett) can see the potential for conflict on the streets. It’s not just in Sheffield we should be concerned about but a pattern will emerge. A little research shows that all over western-Europe where there is a welfare system, and leagues of welcoming rights organisations standing by to explain just how to go about claiming EU citizen rights, will naturally attract the worst elements of mass immigration.

It is already apparent that the EU let alone the UK have not a clue how to address the potential problems. We talk about the threat of assault on our benefit system or work sectors by Romanians and Bulgarians; but unlike the majority of Roma, the skilled or qualified migrants are not the real problem issue; quite the contrary.

It stands to reason that the Roma mobilisation post 2014 border lifting, will start as a trickle but then steadily build (just as Enoch predicted of another group). It is already too late and we have no court of appeal. The accommodation of these misfit Bulgarian and Romanian paupers will obviously appeal also to their numbers in Macedonia, Moldova, Ukraine and beyond.

It must be bad if our barely assimilated migrants are complaining about … newer migrants.

4 January 2014 at 09:37  
Blogger Len said...

'Stuffed' is the word I think you were looking for Dreadnaught.

The EU controls us now and the EU is destroying national Sovereignty,national identity,and freedom of the individual and consolidating power to a small group of unelected 'elites'. They have used minorities to overturn the majority,very clever people?.
Remember they came for the Christians first.

4 January 2014 at 10:33  
Blogger bluedog said...

Well, Dreadnaught @ 09.37, just imagine what it would be like if Turkey joins the EU. The Kurds are another nation without a home and one can imagine the Turks giving every Kurd they can find a ticket to the West. Of course, the Bulgarians are a Turkic people, so their arrival is in itself something of an amuse bouche.

4 January 2014 at 10:33  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Frankenstein comes to mind: experimenting without really knowing how the thing will turn out.

Anyway, the EU monster is now in existence and thoroughly corrupted; and the question is whether the peoples of Europe can destroy it before it destroys us.

4 January 2014 at 11:14  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Dreadnaught @ 9.37

Interesting and illuminating facts. I laughed at your
(sounds familiar?). The deep irony is that the EU wants all nations to no longer have a country to claim as their own. All is shared, all is post-modern relativistic chaos, and all is controlled by a few faceless, self-replicating, unaccountable ones.

It won't endure of course. Even the iron fist of Norman feudalism was eventually undermined by a slow acting spirit of freedom, and that from a cold start. Or take the Russian situation. Ours evolved into democracy, thank God, whereas in France and Russia bloody, explosive revolution resulted.

But history doesn't quite repeat itself. We have a far more auspicious situation, with an educated public, able to communicate and with an in depth tradition of democracy and civic activism. So even if they continued to "de-nation" us, a process which may well be arrested anyway, the climb up from a false democracy should be a much faster acting, more dynamic process. But it's going hurt, hopefully a little, but I'm not taking bets on it.

4 January 2014 at 11:44  
Blogger David Hussell said...

The Explorer @ 11.14

Yes, that's the question, well said. Will the EU monster destroy the individual nations before we destroy it ?

It is that simple in essence, strategically. Around it of course are a plethora of value judgements.

My opinion is that,

"if it t'were to be done, best to be done quickly"

-- apologies to The Bard for imperfect memory, but you get the point.

Greece, Portugal and Spain are already branch operations of Germany.

But on a positive note independent parties are growing in many places, and they include racial minorities within their ranks, which is essential, to prevent it from becoming a racial issue, which it isn't primarily, in my opinion.

It's really about who has the right to govern this country, those that we elect to Westminster or distant pretend MEPs doing the bidding of the bureaucrats, and with "our" group being one twenty-ninth of the voting total anyway.

4 January 2014 at 12:01  
Blogger The Explorer said...

David H @ 11;14

Your last sentence is the key. MEP's are even more remote from us than those at Westminster. I also wonder if they deliberately seek to damage us

I remember a quiz programme where three contestants could vote each other off. The two less able would vote against the more able, and thus eliminate a threat.

I sometimes feel that the EU actively seeks our destruction. (Probably it doesn't because we give more than we receive, but it feels that way at times. Like now.)

4 January 2014 at 12:54  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Thanks for the responses gentlemen. I was rather preparing myself for accusations of 'Nazi'(indeed I asked of myself that question) I assure, I am not.

The obvious recent historical record however, in relation to the treatment of Jews and indeed and to a lesser extent Roma in Europe, should not be a reason for avoiding open debate on the issues of today.

Ignoring the experiences of the past however repellent, leaves future generations in ignorance: politicians pretending that the elephant isn't in the room let alone about to shit on the mat is simply treasonable. The political class and influential elite can afford to live far from the Madding crowd.

The failure of the member states of the EU and the UK in particular to consider the concerns of the majority of the population, is a tinder-box. Unlike the rest of Europe we live on an over-crowded island with a geographically unbalanced distribution of unskilled work opportunities and millions (how ever they disguise the figures) are already unemployed if not unemployable.

Where is the Job Centre demand for shepherds, goat herders, charcoal burners or Big Issue sellers? - we need to be chasing our indigenous feckless unskilled deadbeats off our backs - not welcoming in more.

4 January 2014 at 13:08  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Dreadnaught @ 13:08

Re your last paragraph, St Paul called for the support of widows and orphans, but also said that if a man will not work, neither will he eat. (Choice, that is: inability or injury is quite another matter.)

His view of welfare was not the sort we have now: reward for the mere act of breathing. And bring in more from abroad, so that we can reward them for breathing too.

4 January 2014 at 13:33  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Oh come on MrE! - Not that I'm saying he was wrong in principle; but this code of charity/chastisement has been and is a trait of human nature found in most societies 'civilsed' or not, and long before Paul picked up on it and claimed it for Christianity.

4 January 2014 at 15:08  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Dreadnaught @ 15:08

Did I say otherwise?

I'm saying that St Paul said it; not that no one else did.

My point was that St Paul said welfare should be conditional. We don't.

4 January 2014 at 16:02  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Welfare is conditional - just not conditional enough. No real argument with you or St.Paul ;-)

4 January 2014 at 16:14  
Blogger The Explorer said...

de Tocqueville, pondering the emergence of the welfare state in England, put it down to the dissolution of the monasteries.

Something had to be done for the destitute: who were suddenly without food, shelter or medical care.

4 January 2014 at 16:32  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

I'm sure he was to some degree correct, though the alms system and principles of relief it provided for the destitute, were also conditional and rather arbitrary. The fact that dispensation expenditure was also unaccounted, I think it safe to say it was non the less paltry by comparison, given the enormous wealth of the Abbots and Bishops.

The Anglican and Catholic Churches still hold on to their immense wealth despite lauding the state of Poverty above that of the state of Wealth. More than a hint of hipocrysy in there somewhere I think, but then how else could they justify their reliance on cheap labour other than by a bit of ecclesiastical spin?

The social character of this country and the Welfare State evolved slowly, and was hard won, through the bitter class struggles injustices perpetrated against the Poor in the post-agrarian economy. I stand with Gerrard Winstanley and his True Levellers on this point.

"true freedom lies where a man receives his nourishment and preservation, and that is in the use of the earth"

It's a pity the Monasteries didn't share his views and possibly avoided Henry's petulant unpleasantness.

Sadly it is now seen by many as an entitlement, rather than a hard won benefit for temporary relief from the inability of an individual to provide self sufficiency.

4 January 2014 at 19:05  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Dreadnaught @ 19:05

de T's full title. 'Memoir on Pauperism: Does Public Charity produce an Idle and Dependent Class of Society?' Written in 1835.

That last sentence of yours absolutely nails it for me. 100% accord.

4 January 2014 at 20:29  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Meant to add, Dreadnaught, I do enjoy your sense of humour, even when dealing with serious topics.

Keep it up!

4 January 2014 at 23:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Why thank you Explorer, one surely does need to maintain a degree of humour in approaching what to the individual may be heartfelt 'serious matters' from such opposing camps as faith and atheism. We learn a little more about ourselves by listening to the convictions of others - even if from time to time we don't necessarily want to openly admit it.

That's what makes Cranmer's Blog unique - all wierdos welcome :-)

5 January 2014 at 00:04  
Blogger chrish said...

Well spoken sir-yet again.
The coming Balkan peoples may well be not to our liking in one way or another-any more that hordes of angry Muslims have been and are going to be in the future-but it only needs a cursory read of the Old Testament to see what is happening.
1. The historical Christian Churches of England have largely turned into places where the likes of Giles Fraser and Lucy Winkett get berths for their liberal laziness...and don`t the BBC reward them for that? Yet true Christians did nothing, most still don`t. Just suck up the Guardian op-eds, and denounce Israel or anybody hostile to the coming caliphate.
2.The Roma may well have criminal tendencies within, like any other group...Muslims may yet be our downfall...but both groups (although hostile to Christianity in the latter case) at least name check Jesus Christ and do not omit, commit or abuse that Name in quite the way that the "Church" is now doing...the Church is in the process of being removed, because it has failed to let itself be improved. Simple as.
3. Jesus surely will settle for those who see some power and grace in that name of His, rather than the huckster fraudsters that abuse the "franchise terms and conditions", and trash the "brand image" of His "chain", See what I did there?..simply use the language spoken in the "Churchian Churches" today...not Greek or Aramaic, but the Church as propped up by the BBC have no knowledge of either language-and they uttely despise Hebrew and Yiddish. Tough for them then!
The Babylonians and Assyrians are coming...they`ll do Gods work and save us some eated time. In the meantime. get your own "Hose Churches" in order...and this blog is an excellent forum for doing just that.
(Gal 6.15)

5 January 2014 at 14:57  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older