Thursday, February 20, 2014

74 Anglican bishops don't castigate Cameron


The mainstream media are running prominently today with a letter to the Daily Mirror on the subject of food-banks, which has been signed by 27 bishops of the Church of England (along with sundry Methodists, and a couple of Quakers thrown in for good measure). The letter reads:
Sir,

Britain is the world’s seventh largest economy and yet people are going hungry.

Half a million people have visited foodbanks in the UK since last Easter and 5,500 people were admitted to hospital in the UK for malnutrition last year.

One in five mothers report regularly skipping meals to better feed their children, and even more families are just one unexpected bill away from waking up with empty cupboards.

We often hear talk of hard choices. Surely few can be harder than that faced by the tens of thousands of older people who must “heat or eat” each winter, harder than those faced by families whose wages have stayed flat while food prices have gone up 30% in just five years.

Yet beyond even this we must, as a society, face up to the fact that over half of people using foodbanks have been put in that situation by cut backs to and failures in the benefit system, whether it be payment delays or punitive sanctions.

On March 5th Lent will begin. The Christian tradition has long been at this time to fast, and by doing so draw closer to our neighbour and closer to God.

On March 5th we will begin a time of fasting while half a million regularly go hungry in Britain. We urge those of all faith and none, people of good conscience, to join with us.

There is an acute moral imperative to act. Hundreds of thousands of people are doing so already, as they set up and support foodbanks across the UK. But this is a national crisis, and one we must rise to.

We call on government to do its part: acting to investigate food markets that are failing, to make sure that work pays, and to ensure that the welfare system provides a robust last line of defence against hunger.

Join us at www.endhungerfast.co.uk.
And then comes a veritable psalter of episcopal signatories:

Stephen Platten, Wakefield
David Walker, Manchester
Tim Stevens, Leicester
Andy John, Bangor
Tony Porter, Sherwood
Paul Butler, Durham
Alan Wilson, Buckingham
Alan Smith, St Albans
Nick Holtam, Salisbury
Tim Thornton, Truro
John Pritchard, Oxford
Steven Croft, Sheffield
Jonathan Gledhill, Lichfield
Michael Perham, Gloucester
Alastair Redfern, Derby
Lee Rayfield, Swindon
James Langstaff, Rochester
Martin Warner, Chichester
Mike Hill, Bristol
Martin Wharton, Newcastle
Peter Maurice, Taunton
Gregory Cameron, St Asaph
Peter Burrows, Doncaster
Stephen Cottrell, Chelmsford
Martyn Snow, Tewkesbury
John Holbrook, Brixworth
David Urquhart, Birmingham

But we must keep these things in proportion: if 27 bishops are clobbering Cameron, 74 are not. No doubt this letter was circulated to the episcopal extremities with persuasive entreaties and pleas, but a colossal three-quarters of diocesan and suffragan bishops were unable, for one reason or another, to put their names to it.

His Grace is all in favour of this sort of temporal intervention by the spiritual; indeed, it is his raison d'être: As Sir Humphrey observed: "It’s interesting that nowadays politicians want to talk about moral issues, and bishops want to talk politics." The fact is that man does not live by political platitudes alone: he needs bread. And if he doesn't get any bread, he goes hungry and life becomes rather miserable.

But the fact remains that many of these bishops are well-known anti-Capitalist Guardian readers, and Chris Mould, the food-bank entrepreneur, is a self-declared member of the Labour Party. His Grace neither doubts the noble motives nor disparages the good intentions of those who provide emergency food to people in crisis who are facing hunger, but let us not be under any illusion that many of them have a political agenda, and believe it to be the sole function of the state to provide such services: individual acts of charity, organic fraternity and 'Big Society' altruism should be subsumed to HM Government's ever-burgeoning Welfare State, paid for by the hard-pressed taxpayer (either of today or three generations hence).

Those who establish food-banks (which, incidentally, date from 2004, when Labour was very firmly in power) also seek to raise awareness of food poverty in order that policy-makers take account of their views. As Chris Mould's Trussell Trust explains:
Trussell Trust foodbanks will not benefit from current welfare reforms or become part of the welfare state. Indeed, we are concerned that welfare reforms could lead to an increase in the number of people who will need to be referred to foodbanks and that this could place strain on foodbanks and their donors.

..The Trussell Trust, and Chris Mould in particular, have repeatedly and publically (sic) highlighted our concerns that government welfare reforms are likely to negatively impact people in poverty and have urged politicians to speak to us to find out more about the reality of food poverty so that they can create policies to help the poorest.
So perhaps it comes as no surprise that Work & Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith has refused requests to meet food-bank leaders, having accused them of “scaremongering”.

But there is manifestly some epistemic distance between politicians and prelates which needs a bit of attention. No matter how much George Osborne bounces around gleefully yakking on about recovery, the fact is that life remains very bleak indeed for many who, through no fault of their own, are plagued by poverty and are wholly reliant on food banks. You can't cook GDP figures or eat unemployment stats. Life is hard for the poorest and most vulnerable, and the "arrogant posh boys" (who don't know the price of a pint of milk) remain aloof and indifferent.

The gulf is nothing new: the Church of England has produced a number of reports over the decades on the direction of Conservative welfare policy: in addition to Faith in the City (1985), there is Not Just for the Poor (1987) and Welfare - a Christian Option (1989). But time and again the Church comes down in favour of universal public provision and public funding of all services. There is no appreciation of the concept of relative poverty, and no acknowledgment that the 'poverty' so often talked about is not real poverty - of the sort last seen in Dickensian times. 

And yet.. and yet..

There is no point having central heating if one cannot afford to run it. The Conservative Party tends to take note of possession; the Church of England looks at practical usage. Unequal interdependence fails to respect human dignity. The Prime Minister may have a "moral mission" to reform welfare, but people are not hearing the ethical reasoning. If the poorest are feeling ghettoised and isolated, they will live parallel lives in deprived neighbourhoods and forever curse those evil Tories who place their faith in market dynamics and deify the economy. There may be periodic irruptions of civil unrest, but the Tory solution is not to address the plight of the poor, but to send in the water canons and armed police to bludgeon the despondent and dispossessed. These 27 bishops (and sundry Methodists and a couple of Quakers) are shouting out for the poor, but politicians are as deaf to these clerics as the clerics are as resistant to Conservatism. 

Conservative politicians do themselves no favours when they try to lecture the Church on social thought when they clearly have little understanding of the depth and long history of Christian social thinking. But Anglican bishops do themselves no favours when they fail even to entertain the moral philosophical stream from which conservative thought proceeds. If the poor are homeless and hungry, there is nothing to be gained by bishops and politicians ranting at each other in public denunciations of their mutual ignorance.

55 Comments:

Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

They want the government to intervene to make sure that work pays. But it is government intervention through heavy taxes and costly regulation plus universal unearned welfarism that ensures that it often does not.

I have seen the welfare trap and it works.

Long live IDS.

20 February 2014 at 10:05  
Blogger Corrigan said...

This entire argument about just what level of support the government is supposed to provide tends to veer back and forth because in a secular liberal society there is no moral touchstone to set the criteria. Peter Hitchens sometimes opines that Britain ceased to be a Christian country some time after the First World War, and in the sense of a public debate being informed by Christian principle, he is quite correct. With a moral vaccuum at the heart of the political system (as is utterly inevitable under secular liberalism) what happens is that the most powerful stand up on the backs of the poor, and the poor, for their sins, become degraded Moorlocks.

In Britain (and to an only slightly lesser extent in the rest of Europe) this has manifested itesef in the sink estates around the big cities which are essentially out of the control of the state, and the state is happy enough to leave it like that so long as the feral inhabitants do not stray too far off their reservations and don't pinch too many of the important citizens' Beemers and Mercs (the "important" citizens being the ones in the swing constituencies who decide whether the Labour or Tory wing of the ruling party holds office).

At the other end of the scale, you have the managers (we won't dignify them with the name "politicians", which is, despite appearances to the contrary actually an honourable profession) like Kid Milipede and IDS who are entirely without principle (which befits the operators of a secular liberal system) and who's function is merely to facilitate those business interests that will, in due course, deliver them the lucrative directorships and consultancies for which they came into politics in the first place. Of course, for that to happen, they (the managers) will have to deliver up whatever rags of state assets are still rattling around the bottom of the national treasury to their pals in the City, keep business taxes at a virtually non-existant rate while at the same time screwing Joe Soap in his income to make up the shortfall, and basically maintain even the most basic functions of the state, like police and army, at a skeletal rate in order to save the pennies.

What always amuses me, however, is the attitude of people like Cranmer, who actually believe that all this is a party political function, that it would all change and that some kind of decent, livable society will emerge if we just keep faith with the Tory Party (or the Labour Party, if you're a leftie). Cranmer reminds me of those numbties up in Glasgow, the most corrupt city in the British Isles, who, regardless of what the Labour Party apparatchiks do, still turn out and vote for the gits because "me faither did, and his faither and his before him".

The Tory Party is as spiritually, morally, and intellectually as dead as the Labour Party. God has been driven out of them, and as a believing Christian, Cranmer should know that the definition of evil is that from which God is absent.

20 February 2014 at 11:38  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! If we didn't have the poor (who are always with us, after all) Hiram's Hospital would be empty and I'd run out of a plot line...

20 February 2014 at 11:49  
Blogger Len said...

Well said Corrigan.(9: 20 February 2014 11:38)

And for the first time I am in complete agreement with you.

20 February 2014 at 11:54  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Corrigan

They vote for the gits in Glasgow because it makes perfect sense to them to continue to do so.

Ever wondered why the vast majority of poor people who become Christian sooner or later become "middle class" in their aspirations?

Phil

20 February 2014 at 12:01  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Phil, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

20 February 2014 at 12:07  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

@ Corrigan

Passionate Irishman or whatever, surely it is common courtesy to observe normal politeness and indeed due gratitude to His Grace who hosts, enables, & maintains this site, and is such a fine writer.

You seem a trifle like a tipsy footballer going all out for a red card.

Poverty is a difficult subject; few want to encourage it, and I would suggest none here do. How far it is enabled by handouts, and how far they act to disincentivize that work which is the accurate measure of a nation's wealth is a question there are different takes on.

I would want that linked to discussions about monopolies and markets that operate without the high levels of fraud at present within them. Others don't see that.

But we can all operate with the assumption that we want what is good, and with a modicum of politeness, surely?

20 February 2014 at 12:36  
Blogger Doreen Henderson said...

All very interesting.Hhowever, some of us are just getting on with collecting, sorting and packing the food boxes that enable us to distribute actual food to those who turn up at our Foodbank. More than one hundred per cent up onlast year and still demand increases.

20 February 2014 at 12:39  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

@ doreen

If the hand say to the foot "I have no need of thee."

In other words some are called to hand out the food boxes, others to investigate why the food boxes are necessary at all, others to help give the recipients a brighter future and more hope, others to question how much is spent on other areas and whether say military spending could not be shifted to help the struggling more, and still more to farm the land efficiently. And... and..and..

We were intended to work as a body and that is what we are doing. No part is better than another. Preventative medicine is as important as reactive medicine.

20 February 2014 at 12:46  
Blogger Tom said...

I'd be interested to know how many of the 500,000 people who have visited a foodbank in the past year are dependent on welfare for support and how many are in work. Migrants from outside the EEA, for instance, have no access to public funds and so the only way to relieve poverty for them is to reduce taxes; increasing welfare only makes things worse for them as they are taxed harder to pay for it. The same is true to some degree for anyone earning more than the tax-free threshold (the increase of which, by the way, is one of the great achievements of this government).

20 February 2014 at 13:01  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

Judging by my church also, some will be drug addicts or alcoholics who come for the food parcels partly because they have spent too much on alcohol or drugs. This is not to blame them, for drug and alcohol addiction is a terrible kind of poverty in its own right, and one we as a nation have very little handle on.

Having had a relation who was an alcoholic I know all too horribly the problems and how thinly help is spread across the ground, and how we really as a nation have barely even dented the image of alcohol as something necessarily sophisticated, adult, and fun that only party poopers do in moderation. Teenagers and young adults have vodka jellies before even hitting the nightclubs. Sticking a few extra pence of duty on the bottles solves nothing, unless the attitudes are ram-raided so that they become actually mature and nuanced, and until a sensible idea of what is really "adult" is out there, not the garbled one which also includes really gross porn, as at present.

20 February 2014 at 13:11  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Quite, Doreen. I'm sure you have every reason to feel good about yourself.

Lucy, I wasn't aware that I was being impolite. Cranmer is a man who makes a virtue out of straight talk; he's been about the blog this morning, as his supplementary post indicates, and if he doesn't see any need to take a swing at me, I don't see why you should.

20 February 2014 at 13:21  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

It does not pay to take a job, it certainly does not pay to be married(around 12 to 15K per year for a working family). It does not pay to bring up your own children, but to put them in day orphanages. It does not pay to save. It does not even pay to put your children in better schools as they get discriminated against but most Unis for most useful degrees.

It does not pay to do the right thing at all but yet, when poor people become Christians, get married or stick together, sacrifice for their children, stop drinking and taking drugs. What happens? They suddenly start to see an improvement in their lives.

What comes next is a desperate urge to move away from the sink estates that had the values and aspirations that caused them and could drag them down again into so much misery and hopelessness.

They become middle class. Or as I like to think they start to gain their self respect

Phil

20 February 2014 at 13:33  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Doreen

I think that those that obviously can work should be asked to do something for the food boxes. Same for welfare.

Phil

20 February 2014 at 13:38  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

@ Corrigan
Well it depends on how you treat a host; we clearly differ on that.

20 February 2014 at 13:40  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Corrigan

The state seems to have an interest I agree in keeping people poor. How many jobs are directly linked to the numbers of poor?

BTW I have not seen any evidence that the Tory (liberal?) policies are helping the poor get off benefits. Have you really looked at the some of the jobs the poor are asked do all day?

No wonder they stay on benefits.

I would. The whole system need a complete overhaul

Phil

20 February 2014 at 13:45  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Phil, I agree with all you're saying, I was just wondering what the significance was in the context of this thread. What you have described is a perfect representation of life at the bottom and one possible way out of it; what I am saying, however, is that the same poison which informs the lives of the bottom-feeders also fuels that of those at the top. The two are mutually sustaining, and neither of the main parties (and I also have serious misgivings about UKIP) will be capable of doing anything about it because all accept the same secular liberal starting point. Cranmer, on the other hand, writes as though the Tory Party is simply on some kind of long intellectual vacation, and any day now they'll be back to put things right. They won't, because like Labour, they're not part of the solution, they're part of the problem.

20 February 2014 at 13:49  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Tom

I agree up to a point.

No FAMILY should pay tax at all until combined earnings are over 40K

The problem is at the moment to access one of the tax free allowances, children have to go into (state funded) childcare and one person works on a really low wage.

Tesco etc are happy with lots of cheap labour. Families become dysfunctional as (usually mum) has to work all weekend inc Sunday for £100 and so does not see the kids.

Then the army of the state "helping" the poor and dysfunctional gets bigger.

Phil

20 February 2014 at 13:53  
Blogger Jim M. said...

You can't cook GDP figures

Oh... I really think one can. And in their position , who wouldn't?

http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/wp/shaun-richards/the-uk-trade-figures-show-us-to-be-excellent-europeansperhaps-the-best/

20 February 2014 at 13:55  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Phil R, there are plenty of good Christians living on these estates you refer to as "sink estates". Being a Christian is not about climbing the social ladder! And the churches should have a presence there too.

Jack sees nothing wrong with food parcels. What's so bad about a bit of charity? Supermarkets waste food anyway and this helps it get to people who will eat it. It's an old practice for street folk to wait by the bins of big stores and if the staff don't take the food home themselves, there's good pickings to be had.

Not everything has to be done by the state.

20 February 2014 at 13:59  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

"One in five mothers report regularly skipping meals to better feed their children"

I don't want to belittle the problem but....

There seems to be a huge number of mothers in the UK that desperately need to skip a few meals if you ask me. Perhaps we should offer cut price Gym memberships? More cheap (junk) food may not be the answer.

Phil

20 February 2014 at 14:01  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Corrigan @13.49

Agreed.

No politician seems to have an original thought in their heads.

Phil

20 February 2014 at 14:17  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Happy Jack

"there are plenty of good Christians living on these estates you refer to as "sink estates"."

There are some. Most if not all would leave if they could

"And the churches should have a presence there too."

If they teach the Gospel. Why is Christianity growing the fastest in the South and amongst the poor? Because it favours the poor and always has. To the rich the claims of Christianity seem counter cultural and ridiculous. To the poor Christianity is empowering, for only in the Bible do they have the same knowledge, the same salvation the same love of God as the rich man. The rich man does/did not want heaven. He wants the Lazaruses of this world to come to him.

Phil

20 February 2014 at 14:26  
Blogger STEVE said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

20 February 2014 at 14:47  
Blogger STEVE said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

20 February 2014 at 14:52  
Blogger James Bolivar Digriz said...

And for a different view, Guido Fawkes reads the letter as supporting government polices
http://order-order.com/2014/02/20/a-whine-from-god/

and show some good evidence that the idea of food poverty is far from being as simple as the 'people are to poor to buy enough food' narrative
order-order.com/2014/02/20/are-food-markets-really-failing/

20 February 2014 at 15:04  
Blogger David Hussell said...

For once I agree with Corrigan @ 11.38

All the key politicians are morally bankrupt. The entire system is broken and needs a refit.

At the moment with the minimum wage so low taxpayers are subsidizing our buying choices - bad economics and bad morality. Better to pay workers considerably more, taking them out of the welfare trap, OK prices would rise to their true economic level, so the market would be allowed to work properly, and taxes could be cut as we would not be subsidizing the employed. The employed would be enjoy greater self esteem, being off welfare, the markets would work better with goods/services costing a true amount and lower taxes all round would boost incentives for all to work hard and effectively. What's not to like ?

What we have is a disaster. But our politicians despite their First Class Honours Degrees in PPE don't have any effective big ideas as to how we can reform the entire system - they are all timid incrementalists and short term thinkers, with no vison, because they have no inner morality.

20 February 2014 at 17:40  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...



A letter to the what !! The Daily Mirror of all things?

At one time it dropped the ‘Daily’ bit along the way, along with all pretensions of being a serious newspaper with journalist standards. Well, the ‘Daily’ returned but we’ll leave the question open as to whether the standards did. But here’s a clue - It won’t be easy to find a place to publish the letter. In between the pages of “who’s screwing who now” and the pornographic agony aunt slot, perhaps.

And before anyone asks, the Inspector occasionally reads the thing as found in his local café – it being marginally preferable to watching people walk by outside. To be honest, if people dressed better in this town, he would never look at that blasted rag again.

Anyway, enough of that. So the bishops are coming to the aid of the poor. That would definitely include the poor who are the authors of their own misfortune. Easy to find yourself in, if you started out spiritually dead and expected to live a life with your hand outstretched. The state will provide, what !

Well, the state has been a little too good at doing that, and all the money has gone. With people living to 80 these days as a matter of course, that could involve 60 years or more of benefits for you and your often illegitimate own, whom we have found, are often so impressed by the state handouts given to mum, they too are guided down the same road.

What was bound to be the inevitable has happened. The poor have been forced to get up off their backsides and leave day time television a few times a week and get themselves down to a food bank to stock up. Oh, the ignominy of it. You see, when they signed on for idle street all those years ago, nobody said anything about having to do something constructive with their time. Some have now broken down, and complained to the media, probably for a fee, but others have even been inspired to volunteer a few hours a week to help out in the food bank – there’s hope for them yet. What do you think of that !

God moves in a most mysterious way, the feckless made to perform, what !





20 February 2014 at 17:41  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

James Bolivar Digriz, Happy Jack suspects Guido Fawkes was being ironic in his comments.

Inspector, Happy Jack finds himself in broad agreement but please do not forget those who are unable to work or fend for themselves. And changing this culture of dependency will not happen overnight. This, to Jack, is where the church comes in. Good old fashioned Christian giving, rather than siding with one political or another.

Maybe the good bishops could dip into their own pockets and encourage their church attendees to do likewise and organise support for the needy.

Here's a thought Inspector, you could arrange training sessions to instil the virtues of hard work and the benefits that come from self reliance.

20 February 2014 at 18:18  
Blogger Integrity said...

Corrigan,
I am bowled over with the tremendous common sense of your comments today. You are so right, Labour has been Labour and always will be. The Tory boys and girls, all except about a hundred are no more conservative than Nick Clegg.
They just wear a different coloured tie.

20 February 2014 at 18:28  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

David

The average UK wage is £16 per hour

If you assume that the min wage should be at least 2/3 of this then it should rise to £10 which is not in my mind unreasonable

Phil

20 February 2014 at 19:09  
Blogger Albert said...

My feeling is that the Government is not quite getting the message, or if it is, it is evading the issue. The issue is not welfare reform - this is necessary, moral and important as both the PM and Dr C have argued. The issue is not whether huge sums are being spent on welfare - clearly they are. The issue is that some people are slipping through the net at the moment.

20 February 2014 at 20:05  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

@ phil

Given that the average includes the exorbitant, including football players, CEOs of large companies, lawyers who can get their client off anything, mega popstars and so forth, I think it is more likely to be the median you should be thinking of.

20 February 2014 at 20:34  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Phil Roberts @ 19.09

Quite !

The whole system is madness, inefficient, demeaning madness.

No one earning below say £30,000 or thereabouts should pay PAYE tax. At present we simply have a money-go-round. Employees on very low wages pay tax (collection of which costs) and lots of welfare is distributed (at cost). Both collection and distribution could be reduced if we edged wages upwards to say, your £10 ph and reduced both hand outs, which are demeaning, and taxes on everyone, but especially the modest earners, thus creating motivation to work and enhancing self-esteem.

Is Government so complicated that no one can envisage the whole strategic picture and nudge things to a better situation. I do believe that IDS is trying to do just that. However if we continue to import hundreds of thousands of immigrants annually from desperately poor countries, eager to work for ever lower wages, we will continue going in the wrong direction, as a society. Hence, in part, my support for exit from the EU and active support for Ukip.













20 February 2014 at 20:38  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Len

Please refrain from falsely writing posts under the pseudonym Corrigan, my fellow.

It is completely unrealistic and nobody believes a word you are saying...Far too erudite, sensible and polite by half.

*Sniggers*

Blofeld

20 February 2014 at 20:58  
Blogger ukFred said...

Was I the only reader who also listened to Today on Radio 4 this morning, when Giles Fraser was asked what his suggestion was and he replied that it was not his job but a politician's to come up with improvements to the benefits system. His words were an intellectually dishonest cop-out and would not, I believe, have gone down well with the God Fraser claims to worship,or His Son.

Where dowe lay the blame? With Winston Churchill and Lloyd George who laid the foundations of the welfare state by introducing pensions and labour exchanges? Gordon Brown whose so-called tax credit takes the marginal rate of Income Tax, National Insuarance and loss of Tax Credit to 70.5%, assuming that you arenot getting housing benefit, when it increases to over 92.5%, and whose kafka-esque rules meant that a family with an income of over £80,000 per year could be eligible for tax credits? Or all of the politicians who spent the National Insurance Fund like a nationalised ponzi scheme from the off.

The fact that Vincent Nicholls began this ball rolling is ironic, given that his cult of Mary-worshippers moved funds from the USA to the Vatican to prevent them being available to victims of clergy paedophile abuse as damages in a court case.

20 February 2014 at 21:00  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

ukFred said...

Dear boy, The world is totally corrupt and them some.

When you can have that 'beast' Bliar telling R Brooks of The Sun the best way to go about deceiving people and disgustingly he served most disgracefully as the Messiah PM, you know it's thoroughly gone rotten to it's very core.

Blofeld

20 February 2014 at 21:18  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

"The world is totally corrupt and them some."

Has been since man was booted out of Eden; will be until our King returns in Glory.

20 February 2014 at 23:38  
Blogger Ian G said...

I love the idea of water canons.

21 February 2014 at 00:42  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Happy Jack said...

"The world is totally corrupt and them some."

Has been since man was booted out of Eden (It has got progressively worse in Ernst's lifetime and is now truly as the Lord said 'When right is wrong and wrong is right); will be until our King returns in Glory (Tarry not, Lord Jesus. Amen).

Blowers

21 February 2014 at 03:13  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Phil Roberts said...

"One in five mothers report regularly skipping meals to better feed their children" (The poor, then?)

I don't want to belittle the problem but....(OOOH, Go on then, do belittle the poor, you know you want to?)

There seems to be a huge number of mothers in the UK that desperately need to skip a few meals if you ask me (All poor are they, these calorie challenged lumps?). Perhaps we should offer cut price Gym memberships? More cheap (junk) food may not be the answer(Unfortunately having few spondoolers means that 1.50 for 4 burgers is affordable to a poor family rather than 10 quid on a pork joint...Fortunately the better off can afford to make better choices because they can pay either 1.50 for the burgers and the 10 for the joint as the poor because their incomes are NOT comparable. i.e, the burgers should cost 6 squid and the joint 50 to the well off, to balance it fairly!!!).

Phil (A relative of Ebeneezer, the former but NOT the latter, perhaps?)

You really appear to have swallowed something hook, line and sinker, do you not? Stereo Typing For Dummies. A funny book but one conducive to terrible outcomes of spirit for the reader!


Blofeld

21 February 2014 at 03:32  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Tiddles

Your whole example shows that you have not been poor.

If you are really poor you don't eat meat and you whole example is my example in essence.

£1.50 for the burgers £1 for the oven chips £1 for 2 cans of baked beans all washed down with Cheap cola at £0.50 for 2 litres.

Sorry pudding! cheap ice cream at £1 for 2 litres

Total cost of meal £5. total calories per person at least 2500.

Total nutrition = zero

BTW Nobody should eat burgers at all...ever.

Many of the junk foods are so bad that when researchers put them in with starving rats they eat the box and packaging in preference to the "food". Fruit loops breakfast cereal was not eaten at all by the rats under any circumstances!

Phil







21 February 2014 at 09:42  
Blogger Len said...

Ernst ,

Due to 'the law of probabilities'(if there is such a thing?)I suppose to agree once in a lifetime with Corrigan is inevitable.

About the same odds as picking up the winning lottery ticket on the pavement perhaps?.


21 February 2014 at 10:08  
Blogger Len said...

Ernst ,

I have toyed with the idea of changing my public persona.
'Martin Luther' came to mind but thought that might be a bit too inflammatory(and our host has had his fair share of inflammatory experiences.)

'Savonarola' has a certain ring to it?. Wycliffe,Huss, Zwingli, Hunter,Tyndale, all protestant heroes of the faith and all burned to death by Rome because they preferred God`s Truth to living a lie.
Many more have died because God`s Truth meant more to them than life itself and many are dying today for their faith.

I think though I will stick with my given name until I am given a new one.



21 February 2014 at 10:33  
Blogger Len said...

Just an additional thought here Ernst
Why is it that today that the supposed 'men of God' are not like any of the early Christians and those who pushed for the Reformation?.
We have a church today who seem to have lost their way and are not prepared to make any sort of stand for the faith?.
Perhaps what we are seeing now that the church and the State are separating and the persecution of the Church has started we see the 'tares' being separated from the 'wheat?' Of course the concept of a 'State religion' is one that can only exist when those who Govern the Country are essentially 'Christian'. Those who see the Church become corrupted have no other option than to leave the State controlled Church(the Vatican is also' a State' I believe and is not the answer for disaffected Christians) but can still remain in the Body Of Christ which is under the direct Leadership of the True Head of the Church Jesus Christ Himself.

21 February 2014 at 10:59  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Phil Roberts said...

" Tiddles

Your whole example shows that you have not been poor.(Perhaps but it does show that I understand the constraints on a limited budget...It's 4 cans of baked beans for a quid all washed down with Cheap cola at £0.39p for 2 litres at Lidl's)

If you are really poor you don't eat meat (Madeira cake is 95p, so let them eat that, Hmmm) and your whole example is my example in essence (So, if they have £50 to spend on a weekly budget for a family of 4, how does that equate to healthy living choices...WE await your enlightened nutritional list. Do put the essentials in, such as milk £1, bread £1 etc or is that junk food?)

Ever wonder about people who pay £2 for a bottle of healthy Evian water, my fine fella?

Just spell "Evian" backwards, old bean!

Blofeld

"A preacher goes to a nursing home to meet an elderly parishioner. As he is sitting there, he notices a bowl of nutritional peanuts beside her bed and takes one.
As they talk, he can't help himself and eats one after another. By the time they are through talking, the bowl is empty.
He says: My dear lady, I'm sorry.., but I seem to have eaten all of your healthy living peanuts.

That's okay, she says, they would have just sat there.
Without my teeth, all I can do is suck the chocolate off and put them back." *Sniggers and cackles*

Tiddles thinks all that reading of junk literature has griddled your noggin, my boy.

21 February 2014 at 11:22  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"Ernst ,

Due to 'the law of probabilities'(if there is such a thing?)I suppose to agree once in a lifetime with Corrigan is inevitable. (1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world and we agree with one, what's the chances of that? *Giggles*)

About the same odds as picking up the winning lottery ticket on the pavement perhaps?.(Will miracles never cease!!)"

"I think though I will stick with my given name until I am given a new one." Leonard, the LION of faith...Seems natural, my fine chap.

"Just an additional thought here Ernst
Why is it that today that the supposed 'men of God' are not like any of the early Christians and those who pushed for the Reformation (They care more for the world and it's temporal belly than their eternal soul)?.
We have a church today who seem to have lost their way and are not prepared to make any sort of stand for the faith?.(Indeed)
Perhaps what we are seeing now that the church and the State are separating and the persecution of the Church has started we see the 'tares' being separated from the 'wheat?' (The state and temporal 'Church' will never separate but they will change the perceptions of man about faith and God..We have Chris Bryant demanding that people see what the Bible states about poverty yet turns a blind and deaf un towards immoral behaviour stated in it? Hypocrites!!) Of course the concept of a 'State religion' is one that can only exist when those who Govern the Country are essentially 'Christian'. (Absolutely correct but J C Ryle stated this was occurring over 100 years ago, was he not?It has just escalated as society has corrupted and does what seems right in it's eyes)
Those who see the Church become corrupted have no other option than to leave the State controlled Church (the Vatican is also' a State' I believe and is not the answer for disaffected Christians) but can still remain in the Body Of Christ which is under the direct Leadership of the True Head of the Church Jesus Christ Himself." People like HG hope that it is only for a season but the gangerene has spread..Is the body able to function with dead parts attached without it eating away the living bits???

Stay strong, my fine fellow and carry on towards glory!!

Best wishes

Blofeld

ps

These here think that by having a go at homosexuals that they will se the light. The problem is not the gay understanding, but the heterosexuals views on morality that have defined it acceptable so no change back to a normal society can occur towards righteousness. The term of greeting by the bartender at the local bar of 'What's your poison', could not be more appropriate?

21 February 2014 at 11:40  
Blogger John Thomas said...

Surely if the bishops banged on as much (and equally loudly) about the other side of the problem (the incapacitating effect of welfare, welfare's tendency to encourage idleness) - and were generally balanced in their approach - then they would gain much more credibility; otherwise, many will just dismiss them (reasonably) as just a load of guardianistas.

21 February 2014 at 11:56  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Tiddles

There is no nutrition in milk that we can use and I doubt that a £1 loaf of bread is any better

Try a big bag of rice, lots of vegetables, eggs and various stir fry sauces

Feed 4 for a week for less than £40. You won't get fat on it. But you will survive quite well on it.

BTW if you want poor, Africa has some good examples. some of the people at my door had not eaten for a month or so at the end of the rainy season.

We fed them all but our cook and gardeners always (unless they were in a terrible state or were women with young children) gave them a few small jobs to do as payment, which most, but surprisingly not all, (when they were told that they would have to do a few jobs, they just walked away) were willing to do.

I wonder how many people would walk away from the food bank if they were given a few jobs to do to to help pay for the food?

Being poor is a relative state BTW. You only feel rich if you can compare yourself with someone else.

I sometimes feel sorry for myself and I just remember the people at my door and realise that my bad day would be their heaven. For the people that came to our door in Africa the £50 for the week that you suggest is impossible, would also be heaven for them. At least initially, until they realise that most people have more then them. That is what Jesus was saying when when Mary washed Jesus' feet with perfume worth a year's wages. The poor will always be with us. We cannot eliminate poverty, because I think poverty is a relative thing.

Phil

21 February 2014 at 15:55  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Phil

"Try a big bag of rice, lots of vegetables, eggs and various stir fry sauces" Sounds delicious but if only we could throw some chicken or pork into that? (Quorn appears quite expensive for a 'healthy' option, even at Iceland.)YUMMY!!

"We cannot eliminate poverty, because I think poverty is a relative thing." Indeed, Ernst is unaware of the ANC party introducing a bedroom tax on the poor in Johannesburg/Soweto?

Blofeld + Tiddles says Hi!

22 February 2014 at 03:21  
Blogger Nigel simmons said...

BROKEN BRITISH POLITICS –LIES UPON LIES WONT GET VOTES
ID Smith has all the outward signs of being a Psychopath but could the signs be misleading for that interpretation and have a more basic significance .An insider told me yesterday that Smiths latest proposal was to Sanction anyone involved in a Protest against the Tory draconian regime .
Nick Clegg and his Cohorts actually think Smith and the Tory hierarchy are really losing the plot desperately to hang on to any threads of credibility endorsed by their dwindling number of supporters by desperate measures such as Smiths .
Whilst Smith a well known Liar and Public Purse Thief is pontificating to us about Idle ne’er do wells his own Department recently spent £471,000 on an office within the Department that was totally left empty for over eight months .
We all agree that the Benefits System has become out dated and needs Systematic Reform to allow it to run more efficiently but Smiths rants about Scroungers and Fraud has no basis backed by the fact that the Department paid £2.3 Billion in income related benefits to households that do not need them .Reform was needed but after the Debacle ID Smith has made of the process Millions have so far been written off and the reformed system under Smith and the Tories will waste Millions if not Billions on reverting back to the original state is was in to keep it running .UC was being rolled out in October 2013 we are probably looking at another Government to implement it by 2020 if we are lucky .The Tories are Morally and Financially trying to drag us down with them into Bankruptcy on both issues .
http://brokenbritishpolitics.simplesite.com

22 February 2014 at 11:27  
Blogger Nigel simmons said...

BROKEN BRITISH POLITICS –LIES UPON LIES WONT GET VOTES
ID Smith has all the outward signs of being a Psychopath but could the signs be misleading for that interpretation and have a more basic significance .An insider told me yesterday that Smiths latest proposal was to Sanction anyone involved in a Protest against the Tory draconian regime .
Nick Clegg and his Cohorts actually think Smith and the Tory hierarchy are really losing the plot desperately to hang on to any threads of credibility endorsed by their dwindling number of supporters by desperate measures such as Smiths .
Whilst Smith a well known Liar and Public Purse Thief is pontificating to us about Idle ne’er do wells his own Department recently spent £471,000 on an office within the Department that was totally left empty for over eight months .
We all agree that the Benefits System has become out dated and needs Systematic Reform to allow it to run more efficiently but Smiths rants about Scroungers and Fraud has no basis backed by the fact that the Department paid £2.3 Billion in income related benefits to households that do not need them .Reform was needed but after the Debacle ID Smith has made of the process Millions have so far been written off and the reformed system under Smith and the Tories will waste Millions if not Billions on reverting back to the original state is was in to keep it running .UC was being rolled out in October 2013 we are probably looking at another Government to implement it by 2020 if we are lucky .The Tories are Morally and Financially trying to drag us down with them into Bankruptcy on both issues .
http://brokenbritishpolitics.simplesite.com

22 February 2014 at 11:27  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Phil. One has seen those fruit loops you mention on the supermarket shelves. A natural defence mechanism within no doubt linked to the very strong instinct that is survival has hitherto prevented purchase by yours truly. So, after reading about the disdain shown to them by starving rats, we can definitely register all thoughts of sampling them as merely academic.

By the way, the rat is a most resourceful creature in its starving state. It will pick through the faeces of other animals looking for half digested material it can squeeze a calorie or two out of. Now that makes a fellow think of some of these awful eating products on sale cynically aimed at the stupid poor, and their hapless children…





22 February 2014 at 13:00  
Blogger Bemused said...

"You can't cook GDP figures..."

This was an obvious inaccuracy, uncharacteristic and unworthy of Your Grace. GDP figures are regularly cooked. We cannot even tell if we have been in a double dip recession or nor until almost a year is past and a great deal of cooking had been done.

22 February 2014 at 22:04  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Blowers, top class from the master wordsmith:

"Ernst is unaware of the ANC party introducing a bedroom tax on the poor in Johannesburg/Soweto?"

*uncontrollable chuckling*

22 February 2014 at 23:45  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older