Wednesday, February 26, 2014

Sir John Major fleshes out the Tory "moral mission"

Sir John Major delivered a speech yesterday at Conservative Campaign Headquarters. He was invited by Party Chairman Grant Shapps to launch a new apprenticeship scheme. This was an honour indeed for Sir John, coming 17 years after being ousted from office by the electorate. Margaret Thatcher wasn't invited to CCHQ to rouse the faithful 17 years after being knifed by her own colleagues. No doubt the then party chairman Francis Maude was far too concerned with decontaminating and re-branding to risk a virulent whiff of Thatcherism.

Sir John Major put some flesh on the Prime Minister's "moral mission", which His Grace would like to fisk a few extracts:
"We exist as a political party to help people reach their ambitions and to make sure our country is safe and secure militarily and economically."
So does Labour.
"Look at our policies: Education reform to make sure that people are being better educated in order to maximise their abilities, Opportunity, by creating jobs. And we should bear in mind that – when we are creating jobs and wish people to move around the country and take those jobs – they need houses to move to as well."
So does Labour.
"The world has changed, it’s moving faster and in a more bewildering fashion than it has ever done before. That isn’t going to change. Science and technology isn’t going to stop so we can catch up and become familiar with it. We need to understand that, use technology in the many ways we already are, but also reassure people that behind today’s often bewildering and frightening changes there lies a political party which understands the modern world, and whose primary purpose is the wellbeing of the individual."
So is that of Labour.
"That is what the Conservative Party is here for. We’re not just here to sit in parliament and become ministers. We are here to improve the lives of those who put us in parliament – as well as those who voted against us. That is our job. That is our mission."
As is that of the Labour Party.
"We Conservatives want people to help themselves. To make their own opportunities. To create something better for themselves, for their families, for their community and for their country.
So does Labour.
"I don’t believe that the Labour Party can do that."
Belief is a mental state, often determined by social and linguistic environment, and certainly influenced by desires, fears and intentions. It is not the same as fact, and Labour would claim the same objectives.
"The Labour Party is the party of class warfare and class division. They set people against people, rich against poor, north against south, haves against have nots. If it’s for their political convenience they will sow division not unity."
Um.. if it's for political convenience, so will Conservatives. Socialism embraces the foundational Christian principles and advocates a fairer society. Please don't delude yourself in the belief that Mrs Thatcher didn't sow division.
"It is an astonishing truth – but a truth nonetheless – that every single Labour government we have ever been cursed with has left the country bankrupt or near bankrupt, with incoming Conservative governments having to clear up the mess they left behind."
That's true enough.
"There are people in this country who will be paying the debts of the last Labour government for a generation or more."
That's also true.
"There are young people who were at school, and are now in work, whose taxes are higher, and who will have fewer opportunities because of what that last Labour government did."
Quite so.

So the uniqueness of the Conservative "moral mission" really all comes down to Mammon. Pity Sir John didn't mention marriage, the family and children. Pity he didn't mention personal responsibility which stems from the Christian understanding that choice is at the heart of the human condition, and that we have the opportunity to choose between right and wrong, good and evil. Pity he didn't mention national sovereignty and the ability of the people to assert their identity and rejoice in their origins, purpose and destiny. Pity he didn't mention the preservation of religion, of Christianity, as one of the highest duties of government.

Margaret Thatcher would have done so. She once said:
I believe strongly that politicians must see that religious education has a proper place in the school curriculum. In Scotland, as in England, there is an historic connection expressed in our laws between Church and State. The two connections are of a somewhat different kind, but the arrangements in both countries are designed to give symbolic expression to the same crucial truth: that the Christian religion – which, of course, embodies many of the great spiritual and moral truths of Judaism – is a fundamental part of our national heritage. And I believe it is the wish of the overwhelming majority of people that this heritage should be preserved and fostered. For centuries it has been our very life blood. And indeed we are a nation whose ideals are founded on the Bible.
Now that's what His Grace calls a moral mission.


Blogger Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Major - 0
Thatcher - 10
Well done Your Grace.

26 February 2014 at 10:56  
Blogger Corrigan said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

26 February 2014 at 11:11  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Poor old Major: seems he can't do right for doing wrong (or for doing Currie). Never mind, John; I imagine if Jesus Christ Himself had succeeded the Sainted Margaret, Cranmer would have turned Muslim.

26 February 2014 at 11:12  
Blogger John Wrake said...


A pathetic comment, showing that the writer is more concerned with his opinion of the individual, rather than the principle upheld, which is the heart of Cranmer's post.

John Wrake.

26 February 2014 at 11:18  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Morality from the man who tupped the Egg-woman? Oh dear oh dear...

26 February 2014 at 11:22  
Blogger graham wood said...

Very good comment Cranny. Only a vacuous mind like John Major's could utter such banal platitudes -
motherhood and apple pie and dada dada dada.

Really, atheists like this man have little to interest people's real needs or concerns.

If the NOT THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY has to invite dead-beats like this on to their platform it is because they are intellectually and politically barren - a spent force.

26 February 2014 at 11:40  
Blogger Corrigan said...

You got me all wrong, John. The salient characteristic of Major's government which presents itself to those old enough to remember it is an administration mired in sleeze, rotten with corruption and toxic with barrow-boys on the make. At least that was how the Great Sorcerer Alstair Campbell managed to spin it, to devastating effect. In reality, Major's government was no more bent than any (including the New Labour aparatchiks who followed it) and probably better than many. The problem was one of perception, because perception always trumps reality.

Cranmer's perception is that Margaret Thatcher was some kind of Protestant Virgin Mary, and presumably was absorbed bodily into Heaven when she died. This is a mindset which has infested the Tory Party since the day she stepped down, or rather, was pushed under the bus, and whoever followed her was, in the reckoning of the Cranmers of Toryism, always bound for the deepest circle of Hell, no matter what he or she did.

In reality, Margaret Thatcher was a crass, ignorant, brutal and - in long term vision, at least - a rather stupid woman, but she was clever enough to recognize the dominatrix-nanny fantasies of many Tories and played to them brilliantly. For that reason, her legacy of a Britain that is now a shell of its former self, snarling at the Scots, pathetically trotting after the Americans in a desperate attempt to project world-wide power, and (perhaps the saddest bit) all vestige of that age-old, quintessentially English decency completely dead. I've said in the past that it was only in the wake of what Thatcher did to your country that I came to recognize the greatness it had before her. I repeat that statement now, and advice our host to snap out of it and start acting his age a bit.

26 February 2014 at 11:44  
Blogger Busy Mum said...

I do not like being patronised by politicians of any party who think that they have it in their power to define morality.
Mrs T recognised that she was privileged to serve a nation of free individuals, responsible (to God) for their own well-being and any less able than themselves.
John Major onwards...the politicians all seem to think we ought to feel privileged to be 'looked after' by them. Not sure exactly what I'm supposed to be grateful for?

26 February 2014 at 11:47  
Blogger Nick said...

Sounds like "Back to basic (Instincts)" again.

26 February 2014 at 12:05  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Your Grace

You seem to be taking it for granted that John Major wrote his own speech, without any input from Conservative Campaign Headquarters. Is that the way things work in the Conservative Party or indeed, in any political party? I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s altogether fair to blame Major for the daft, trite, potty little string of cliches he was called upon to read aloud standing at a lectern. Even conceding that Thatcher would have done it differently.

26 February 2014 at 12:06  
Blogger IanCad said...

This will get the Ukippers going.
Be prepared for a barrage of posts from these well-meaning but deluded souls who claim theirs is the only way forward.

26 February 2014 at 12:20  
Blogger Time For Tea said...

There is only a cigarette paper that can be fitted between the main parties. All are essentially advocates of big government, huge public spending and a progressive agenda. They're just dressed in different costumes.

The Conservatives don't actually conserve anything, Labour doesn't work and the Liberals are actually the party of totalitarianism.

The moral mission amounts to little if you have nothing to base it on and there are no absolutes. It just changes to fit the mood. It's also amazing how many words can be used by someone without actually saying anything as demonstrated here by Sir John.

26 February 2014 at 12:32  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Religion in Schools.
A complete waste of time. A friend of mine did a GCE in RI.(As RE was called then) He said it is an easy subject and YOU DON"T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT.
If RI was so effective post WW2 how come England is a socety with a very large number of atheists today.

26 February 2014 at 12:57  
Blogger Time For Tea said...

Quite right. It is a waste of time in schools. It should be taught at home and in the place where it is practiced.

Poor religious understanding and poor science has led too the rise in atheism

26 February 2014 at 13:02  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Your Grace. Most of your posts are good but with this one you have excelled yourself, and pithy too. So congratulations, and thank you.

Fiscal conservatism severed from social conservatism, is vacuous, and ultimately dead. Take away the faith derived beliefs and it's mainly about just money. It certainly has little integrity and precious little morality in the Christian sense.

It amuses me that the first line of his speech that we are presented with here, assumes the continuing existence of something called "a country". Because if this is meant in the common meaning of a piece of political geography, a territory, with its own government, he immediately undermines his own speech. He was one of those PMs who actively worked to ensure our continued absorption into the EU empire, whose trajectory envisages an end to all countries, and an end to effective national democracy.
Without a philosophical basis such as Burke gave us there is no point to the Conservative Party. It conserves nothing except its own power base.
Mrs T , for all her faults, understood the relationship between faith, politics and the national psyche. These people like Major, or the present PM, are vacuous careerists and mere political administrators. They are not conservatives.

26 February 2014 at 13:08  
Blogger IanCad said...

Sqiar Bi, @ 12:46

Have ten million dollapound to invest in meaningful way.
Send one thousand dollapound to talk complexenviro ment tablau.
Send to HG's warehousing data bank.

26 February 2014 at 13:16  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

And how, pray, does being an advocate for 'a classless society' square with accepting the Garter? Methinks Sir John is an adept at doubleplusgoodthink...

26 February 2014 at 13:27  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


What language is Squiar Bi translating from, do you suppose? My guess is a language that has no articles, possibly Finnish.

26 February 2014 at 13:31  
Blogger Anglican said...

Manfarang 12.57
"Religion in Schools [is] a complete waste of time."

Not necessarily - it depends on the teacher and the pupil (though not helped by the mish-mash of 'ethical studies' which has replaced RE).

I have a young relative, quite intelligent, who went to Church Primary & Secondary schools. All she remembered about her RE at the latter was about sex & drugs (to be fair, that may have been all she listened to). When in her 20s something she said led me to ask her, "Who do you think God really is?" The reply: "An old man in the sky." Needless to say she does not go to church.

26 February 2014 at 14:08  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Wasn't the UK a twisted up financial and economic mess before Mrs Thatcher? To the extent that Saturday Night Live actually did a mock telethon for the UK? I'm pretty sure it was.

Oh wait. Maybe that was what we would call 'Socialist. Growing Pains.'. You know. When the country was held hostage to obsolete coal mines and coal miners who simply wanted more.


26 February 2014 at 14:21  
Blogger Corrigan said...

That was Carl Jacobs.

26 February 2014 at 14:24  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

carl jacobs

Sadly, the case was even more hopeless than that. Thatcher's predecessor, Jim Callaghan (1976-79), was convinced that Britain's decline was irreversible and that his job as prime minister was simply to make the slide down the slippery slope as painless as possible.

26 February 2014 at 14:34  
Blogger said...

It seems to me that the British are no less liable to hypocrisy than any other nation or people. We all as individuals like to think that we are more “moral” than others at a particular moment in time, whatever our particular political affiliation or none.

Very few of us really believe that “there is none righteous, no, not one” as described in Psalm 14 v. 3 or Romans 3 v. 10 – comforting ourselves with the fact that those words describe God’s standard rather than the standard of the average human being.

It is because of our disbelief in these verses (even with Christ as Saviour) that have caused desertion of God as portrayed by the institution of church. Hence we see the inauguration of such models as “Sunday Assembly” (Google for link), guided not by creed, text or prayer book but community and good works alone.

I wonder, will such models comprise more of one particular political affiliation than another?

Beryl Polden, Wirral

26 February 2014 at 14:47  
Blogger Len said...

As we as a nation slide further down the slippery slope some attempts are being made to stop the downward spiral (as those with any sort of perception realise that things are getting 'out of hand'). It is futile of course because the course that has been set for us(by those seeking their path to freedom) can only have one inevitable result which is becoming all too apparent as we all edge nearer to the abyss.

Man has a fallen nature which he inherited from his ancestor Adam and that fallen nature has been kept in check by the boundaries placed upon it by God`s Moral Law .

But now man has rejected God and is making his own 'moral code' to line up with and to give free expression to his fallen nature.

We are now seeing the fruits of that fallen nature expressed without reservation.Where their was once secrecy over sins that one knew one was committing there is now a totally blatant attitude.

This is a spirit of rebellion which is a characteristic of the fallen nature.As things get progressively worse there will be those who revel in the freedom to do as they want unrestricted but there will be those who will be sickened and disgusted at the levels we are sinking to.
'John MacArthur' explains this process we are going through.
John MacArthur

26 February 2014 at 14:47  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


That was Carl Jacobs.

Yes, that's me. Speaking truth to the historically blind and their vision of idyllic Britain pre Thatcher.

Why do you so hate a politician from the UK? Is it because she well and truly crushed the Left? Is it because she restored the UK and thereby deprived you of the Schadenfreude of watching it fall apart? Your animosity mystifies me.


26 February 2014 at 15:19  
Blogger IanCad said...

Uncle Brian,
I speak three languages; English, American and Shocking, so am unable to throw light on the subject.
However, could it be Estonian?


26 February 2014 at 15:34  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


I once shared an office with a Finnish colleague who at moments of stress would come out with exclamations like, "I locked car door with keys inside."

He also once told me, "There is no sex in the tongue," meaning there are no genders in the language.

So now you know as much about Finnish as I do. Or possibly more -- referring back to that other thread, what's the Finnish name for Saturday? Do you know? I don't.

26 February 2014 at 15:41  
Blogger IanCad said...

Can't help you much I'm afraid. Uncle Brian

The best i can come up with is that Saturday is translated as "Lauantai," which roughly means "Washing." As in "Laundry"?

Sunday is "Sunnuntai" No prizes there.
Good story.

26 February 2014 at 16:13  
Blogger Busy Mum said...

I guess pre WW2, RI was taught on the assumption that Christianity was the truth and any other religions were false.
Since WW2 (and don't forget CofE schools 'sold their souls to the devil' in 1944 I think it was - they took on Local Authority governors in exchange for govt funding) - since WW2, RI has been taught on the assumption that atheism is the truth and all religion including Christianity is false.

I have just discovered that if any parent wants to withdraw their child from RE, the Local authority is legally bound to help parents access the right type of RE, wherever they want it, even if this means providing transport and missing other lessons such as maths and english. So a C of E school might well face the situation of seeing all its Muslim pupils disappearing off to the nearest madrassah for the day, all at taxpayers' expense.....once the majority of pupils are Muslim, I suppose it would make sense for the school to only provide lessons in Islam....

26 February 2014 at 16:20  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

Corrigan @ 11.44

I agree.

We also forget as education minster she dismantled our education system and was hugely keen on Comprehensive schools.

One huge school (2000 + pupils) replaces three small ones tailored to different abilities.

Cheaper you see..... and that is the only criteria of course.

Bound to work.

Did it?


26 February 2014 at 17:14  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Always had John Major down as a bit slow on the uptake but certainly not thick. But having covered the apparently irresistible Edwina, he obviously doesn’t realise that him talking about morals has as much integrity as the sales pitch from a Baby Sitting service run entirely by gay men.

Still, it is reassuring that politicians have not quite lost the ability to speak on the deeper aspects of existence – the underlying morality of it all.. Unfortunately, it won’t be Cameron at any time. One thinks he’s right in saying the nearest that creature of the surface has come to profundity was his quite ridiculous impassioned plea on why two men should be allowed to marry each other, of all things. Highly bizarre and somewhat disturbing coming from a Prime Minister. Sure you’ll all agree…

One wonders if he is regretting that indulgence yet. He will do when this man gets to vote in his Conservative marginal…

26 February 2014 at 18:15  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


I see you’ve researched this subject very thoroughly. I’ve been doing a little googling but there’s one item of information I’ve failed to find on the internet. Perhaps you can help me out. It is this. At quite an early date, the Catholic Church introduced its own Latin names for the days of the week: Dies Dominica for Sunday, Sabbatum for Saturday, and just numbered days for Monday through Friday. These names certainly came into use at some date earlier than 600, but how much earlier? Have you managed to discover when it was?


26 February 2014 at 18:46  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Your young relative is not untypical.
Busy Mum
It was called Religious Instruction. Instruction meaning it was taught on the basis that it was true.
Under the 1944 Education Act schools had to provide a lesson about religion.The religion was Christianity.
In the postWW2 period lots of kids went to Sunday school.
These days RE tends to be based on comparative religion.It is assumed the kids know nothing about religion and ought to know something.
In the old days parents could opt there children out of RI which some Catholics did.

26 February 2014 at 20:12  
Blogger Manfarang said...

How is God doing with Ulster?

26 February 2014 at 20:14  
Blogger 45minutewarning said...

The anodyne Mr Major never failed underwhelme and I see he has not lost his touch. To be honest the Conservative party is coming to an end anyway. The sensible people have gone home, the loud-mouths have insulted other guests, and the hosts (the electorate) are trying to get them out the door so they can go to bed.

Never mind, there's plenty of room over at Nick and Ed's party.

26 February 2014 at 21:06  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

" Shang-A-Lang said...

How is God doing with Ulster?"

"Ernst glanced at it, then did a double take"

What the??

"Friends, Romans, countrymen: lend me your eyes"

Sometimes commenting on this blog is just stark staring bonkers.

* OOPS * Accidentally launching a nuclear weapon assault on downtown Bangkok. *My Bad*

Dear Shang-A-Lang, old bean. I did something bad there, and I recognise that I did something bad, but there is nothing that can be done for Bangkok now, and there is technically no reason to apologise for that error.
It was malfeasance, pure and simple, so let's just assume that I won't do it again, get over it, and move on with our lives. Savvy?

I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian, I'll have you know!"


Are you aware that 'Vegetarian' is derived from the Siamese word for "bad hunter".


26 February 2014 at 22:41  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

One day two Bloggers, who were best friends, were walking together down the street.

One was a Thai vegetarian and constantly berated the other for eating meat!

After stopping for a hot dog, the vegetarian erupted "Why you eat meat?, You even know what in hot dog? You know, you are what you eat!"

The carnivore replied "I am what I eat, Shang-A-Lang, an uncontrollable vicious wild animal ("Ooo-wa-ooo-aaooaaooaa-ooo" whilst beating his chest)"

As they stepped off the curb a speeding car came around the corner and ran the poor vegetarian over.

The carnivore called 999 and helped his injured blog friend as best he was able.

The injured vegetarian was taken to emergency at the hospital and rushed into surgery.

After a long and agonizing wait, the doctor finally appeared. He told the uninjured carnivore, "I have good news, and I have bad news. The good news is that Shang-A-Lang is going to pull through."

"The bad news is that he's going to be a vegetable for the rest of his life."


Did you hear about the vegan devil worshipper?
A: He sold his soul to seitan!

26 February 2014 at 22:59  
Blogger Ivan said...

Mrs Thatcher was not about to allow the coal miners to bring down another Conservative government within a decade. As she explained "the lady is not for turning". The coal miners and the sinecured trade unionists were a major factor in destroying the competiveness of the British economy in the seventies. Without any concern for the viability of industries, at a time when the Japanese were slicing through the competition with a hot knife, the UK's own workers lived as though as they were still under the system of Imperial preferences. When the miners were thoroughly beaten they were scratching their scabs, looking for sympathy, walking around like extras in an AJ Cronin novel. But they had aimed for Mrs Thatcher and lost.

The Communists in particular were bitter, they could not take down the only European leader, apart from the Pope, (the Italian CDU was dodging prison and the Germans were suspicious) who was unequivocal in support of the Solidarity movement in Poland. The leader who with nerves of steel, steered Europe into accepting the cruise and Pershing missiles, putting paid to Soviet hopes of decoupling the elements of Nato.

But even apart from machinations of the Communists, the advances in gas turbine technology would ensure that coal no longer retained its position as the main feedstock for electricity generation.

27 February 2014 at 01:24  
Blogger Manfarang said...

'Ex-Combatants, Religion and Peace in Northern Ireland', written by Professor Gerard Leavey and Dr David Mitchell from the University of Ulster with Professor John Brewer, Queens University, Belfast, sheds new light on the interplay of religion, identity and violence in Ireland using original interviews with ex-combatants from across the political and religious divide.

Professor Leavey, director of the Bamford Centre for Mental Health and Wellbeing, said: "This book offers fascinating insights into the very complex relationship between the various people from loyalist and nationalist communities who were involved in violence and the churches.

"It explores, through the perspectives of ex-combatants, how the conflict in Northern Ireland, while certainly not a religious one, was entangled with religion in various and complex ways."

27 February 2014 at 06:47  
Blogger Manfarang said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 February 2014 at 07:10  
Blogger Manfarang said...

I am concerned that you may read Blofeld's comments while you are eating your cornflakes and choke.
Nuclear weapons?
In downtown Bangkok it was an M79 grenade that killed some kids the other day.
Hot dogs? More likely dogmeat from the NE Thailand.
Siamese words?Is there a British language? Begorra!

27 February 2014 at 07:10  
Blogger Manfarang said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 February 2014 at 07:10  
Blogger Flossie said...

Your Grace, I went to a meeting last week in London entitled 'Can Christianity and the European Union survive one another', the speakers being Michael Nazir Ali, Peter Mullen and Philip Foster.

The latter speaker quoted widely from a an address by Margaret Thatcher (which he referred to as a sermon!), including the very words you have quoted above.

He said Margaret Thatcher really 'got it', and she did, as can be seen from the rest of her address, which can be read here:

27 February 2014 at 07:30  
Blogger Corrigan said...

How come the Thai vegetarian's English is still better than Blofeld's?

27 February 2014 at 07:51  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Happy Jack sees the Tory Party donors are pulling funding from the party like nobody's business and transferring to UKIP.

Cameron may have to rely on the Pink Pound and Jack doesn't think they'll give too much.

27 February 2014 at 09:41  
Blogger IanCad said...

Uncle Brian

No, I'm not sure when that happened.

I'll "Google" Latin Calender later today.

The weeekly cycle and numbering of the days has existed from forever.

It is worthy to note that only in the last twenty years or so has any attempt been made to change the numbering order of days.

Most European calenders now place Monday as the first day. Thus Sunday is now the seventh.

Sanction for this change can perhaps be inferred from John Paul's "Dies Domini" papal letter.

27 February 2014 at 09:46  
Blogger Len said...

This thread seem to have gone a bit surreal?.
Remove the foundations and the house collapses this is what is happening to our society and we are going to have to actually experience this collapse for ourselves because we seem set on a course which our Government and our society seems unable to appreciate.

Psalm 2

1 Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”

4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
5 He rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
6 “I have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.”

7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;
today I have become your father.
8 Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You will break them with a rod of iron[b];
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”

10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

27 February 2014 at 09:57  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

dear Manfarang, Yes I almost choked on my soldiers, but managed to get a grip, never fear!

27 February 2014 at 09:57  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


Thanks, Ian. In the meantime I’ve done a bit more googling and have now found a reference to St Sylvester (Pope Sylvester I, 314-335), under whose pontificate, some sources say, the Latin names (Sabbatum etc.) were officially adopted in Church use. The references are so vague, however, that I suspect this may mean no more than, prior to the Edict of Milan in 313, extant Church records are patchy at best and no precise dating can now be established for many events that took place in the course of the long persecution.


27 February 2014 at 12:42  
Blogger non mouse said...

Well, Your Grace.
Can't help noticing the Pink tie: at least they're not hiding the colour preference.

27 February 2014 at 18:13  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...


Just in case you haven't already noticed, David Kavanagh has now reopened this question on the Bishop of Oxford thread.

27 February 2014 at 21:13  
Blogger IanCad said...

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" Uncle Brian, but it has a been a busy last few days.
I'll catch up later, after the Sabbath.

I did read that Explorer has been unwell.
Best wishes for a full recovery.

28 February 2014 at 17:35  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Ian Cad|:

Thank you.

The context. The Inspector asked me in the thread above if I had had a serious illness ever, and I said yes.

The intensive care spell (and three operations) was actually last year. I'm fine now, except that I still haven't fully recovered from the effects, and I tire a lot more easily than I did before.

28 February 2014 at 19:30  

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