Tuesday, March 11, 2014

Why don't bishops just pick up the phone to ministers?


Another bishop has bashed the Government. This time it's the Rt Rev'd Dr Peter Forster, Bishop of Chester, who is of the view that stay-at-home mothers and carers are being discriminated against in the tax and benefits system. And so The Independent gleefully conveys the damning critique: "married couples with only one earner keep less of every extra pound they earn in the UK than in any other country in the developed world."

This follows hard upon the 27 bishops (actually, 35) who clobbered the Coalition over the rise of food-banks: "Britain is the world’s seventh largest economy and yet people are going hungry," they wrote to the Daily Mirror.

And let us not forget Cardinal Vincent Nichols, leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, who referred to Iain Duncan Smith's welfare reforms as “frankly a disgrace". He explained to the Telegraph: "..the basic safety net that was there to guarantee that people would not be left in hunger or in destitution has actually been torn apart."

It gives His Grace no pleasure when the most senior Roman Catholic in England and Wales tears strips off the most senior Roman Catholic in the Government. And it must have been a cause of grief in the heavenlies when the Secretary of State's delivered a withering response (via the Sunday Politics) which was steeped in incredulity and contempt for the Cardinal's concerns: "I'm not quite sure what he thinks welfare is about," the Minister scoffed, after entreating: "It would be good if he actually called me before he made these attacks."

Quite why Cardinal Nichols chose to smear a very prominent Conservative minister in the Telegraph before discussing his manifold concerns with a co-religionist is something of a mystery. Unless, of course, the Cardinal is allowing his personal socialist-inclination to cloud his discernment and nullify expressions of basic courtesy. Christian brothers are, after all, supposed to treat one another with kindness - except, it seems, when one hails from inner-city Birmingham via the Thatcher-loathing tenements of Liverpool, and the other from ultra-Tory Chingford via the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst. Perhaps they simply can't be bothered to test each other's grasp of Roman Catholic social teaching.

But there is no excuse at all for bishops of the Church of England not to pick up the phone to MPs, ministers and secretaries of state before sounding brass and tinkling their cymbals in the left-wing tabloids. This is the Established Church, after all. The Bishop of Chester even sits in the House of Lords: it's not as though he lacks parliamentary nous or an extension number.

As His Grace wrote a few weeks ago: "Conservative politicians do themselves no favours when they try to lecture the Church on social thought when they clearly have little understanding of the depth and long history of Christian social thinking. But Anglican bishops do themselves no favours when they fail even to entertain the moral philosophical stream from which conservative thought proceeds. If the poor are homeless and hungry, there is nothing to be gained by bishops and politicians ranting at each other in public denunciations of their mutual ignorance."

Successive broadsides in the media render mature discussion and debate almost impossible, for each bombardment magnifies distrust, and the crossfire yields nothing but mutual enmity and loathing. And while God's holy warriors and belligerent politicians are scrapping over the definition of justice, the poor go hungry and the homeless shiver in urine-drenched doorways, wondering why God has abandoned them.        

So, for God's sake, Your Graces and Eminences, pick up the phone. It's good to talk.

55 Comments:

Blogger Len said...

We live in a world where 'a quite chat' with anyone will achieve virtually nothing unless we are talking to someone with integrity.(Now there as word!)
All the Worlds a stage...as someone said and we each have our part to play..
The stage now is the' media' the 'internet'.
'A tweet' gets more attention that a quietly spoken word.
The internet is a way of involving the World in your cause or at least bring it to everyone`s attention.

11 March 2014 at 09:31  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Your Grace is perhaps not making due allowance for the perceived importance of concepts such as “media exposure” and “newsworthiness”.

“In a seven-minute speech in the House of Lords yesterday, the Bishop of Chester called attention to income discrepancies in single-earner households.”

“Cardinal Nichols and Iain Duncan-Smith discussed food banks in a telephone conversation, in the course of which they swapped wisecracks about their memories of Crosby and Sandhurst, respectively.”

Hold the front page!

11 March 2014 at 09:32  
Blogger Dunstan said...

Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.

11 March 2014 at 10:07  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace ended with

"So, for God's sake, Your Graces and Eminences, pick up the phone. It's good to talk."

May Ernst humbly suggest that all parties firstly take off your politico-speccies, go back and look at what the 'Good Book' says and discern then who the poor, needy, vulnerable and disabled really are and only THEN pick up the phone.

That the lazy layabouts, scroungers, drunks, drug addicts, jezebels of society etc may not be included in their number, is pretty obvious!

Our God in Psalm 113:7 says "He raises up the poor out of the dust. Lifts up the needy from the ash heap;"

Amos 5:12-14

12 For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins.
There are those who oppress the innocent and take bribes and deprive the poor of justice in the courts.
13 Therefore the prudent keep quiet in such times,for the times are evil.

14 Seek good, not evil,that you may live. Then the Lord God Almighty will be with you, just as you say he is.

Strange is it not, The Old Testament is replete with laws from Our God regarding that He is the God of the poor and the needy, the afflicted, the sick, the disabled,and forgotten elderly and widow/ers and how a Nation should repond to such righteousness, then we ignore it as a nation? Why?

“There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land” (Duet 15:11).

Did Jesus say 'Remember the rich/blessed are the rich, those that have, those that live in luxury etc.

Could we equate Christ with the rich or the truly poor?

When Jesus fed the thousands, He did not first check to see if they would be His disciples, now did He?.

He did not require them to come to Him for salvation. He simply filled a need by filling empty stomachs because 'He careth for them'.

Feeding and caring for the poor and the needy, the afflicted, the sick, the disabled,and forgotten elderly and widow/ers does not define the Christian; it is part of BEING a Christian.

The Apostles and early church had a divine zeal to help the poor and the needy, the afflicted, the sick, the disabled,and forgotten elderly and widow/ers yet we can see it as acceptable to be willingly blind to who truly are and who aren't.

Amazing!!!

It's called discernment!!

Proverbs 21:13“If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered.”

Job wrote, “I rescued the poor who cried for help, and the fatherless who had none to assist them” (Job 29:12).

We also need to “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy” (Prov 31:8-9). In fact, “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern” (Prov 29:7).

Paul told Timothy to “Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life” (1 Tim 6:18-19).

Being a Christian means to be Christ-like. Not only those who profess Him as their Lord and Savior, but those who possess Him in their actions.
We can profess and even confess Him, but unless we possess Him, He is not our Lord.
As has been said, if He is not Lord of all to us, He is not Lord at all!

Blofeld

11 March 2014 at 10:47  
Blogger 45minutewarning said...

"That the lazy layabouts, scroungers, drunks, drug addicts, jezebels of society etc may not be included in their number, is pretty obvious!"

Well that's quite a few of Their Lordships excluded!

11 March 2014 at 11:01  
Blogger Corrigan said...

As His Grace wrote a few weeks ago: "Conservative politicians do themselves no favours when they try to lecture the Church on social thought when they clearly have little understanding of the depth and long history of Christian social thinking. But Anglican bishops do themselves no favours when they fail even to entertain the moral philosophical stream from which conservative thought proceeds.

As Corrigan wrote a few weeks ago, Cranmer seems to think the Conservative Party is on some kind of ideological holiday, but they'll be back any day now to put the world to rights. Well, they're not. They're gone. Dead. Expired. They have ceased to be. They are an ex-party. What exists in their place is the right wing of what we may term The Management Party (Labour being the left wing), which is a career ladder for bright ambitious people who wish to collect a large number of consultancies and directorships from the City of London. They do this by proving their mettle managing the interests of the City in Parliament (hence "The Mangement Party"), and when they've been seen cutting enough services, selling off on the cheap whatever remains of Britain's national assets and generally lowering business tax while at the same time soaking Joe Soap with various income and value added taxes to take up the shortfall, they will duly proceed to collect their rewards.

This is how Britain stands in 2014. It's not a huge amount better in many other countries, but Britain is the worst because of it's antiquated electoral system. 200 years ago, in Georgian times, one went into politics for the explicit purpose of selling one's office to the highest bidder, and nobody questioned that this was why you entered public life. It was simply a given. This is also the case today. The only difference is that back then, the buyer literally handed you a bag of gold coins, while today, he nominates you to the board of directors. If people are sickened by this behavior today in a way they weren't in Georgian times, it's because of the Victorian reforms which took place in the interim. The Victorians were, after their own quaint fashion, great idealists, and whatever mistakes they made during what could be called the long afternoon of Victorian morality, roughly 1850 to 1950, they usually made for the right reasons. What people don't understand today is that this era was an aberation in history. The Victorians were the odd men out in the timeline and what people see in Westminster today is simply reversion to type in the absence of Christian morality, which apparantly is a repulsive concept in a secular liberal state.

The Conservative Party which Cranmer is referring to doen't exist anymore, and if it ever comes back it's going to have to be built anew from the ground up. He's waiting for the Party of D'israeli and Churchill to wake up from its slumber, but it ain't going to happen. You're stuck with the muppets who call themselves Tories no for good and all, and it's no use looking to UKIP to take their place because they're just hoovering up the inchoate despair of small c conservatives; they have no real ideological base of their own, like the old Tories had.

Basically, you're screwed.

11 March 2014 at 11:57  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

" If people are sickened by this behavior today in a way they weren't in Georgian times, it's because of the Victorian reforms which took place in the interim. The Victorians were, after their own quaint fashion, great idealists, and whatever mistakes they made during what could be called the long afternoon of Victorian morality, roughly 1850 to 1950, they usually made for the right reasons. What people don't understand today is that this era was an aberation in history. The Victorians were the odd men out in the timeline and what people see in Westminster today is simply reversion to type in the absence of Christian morality, which apparantly is a repulsive concept in a secular liberal state (So True!!)....Basically, you're screwed." *Gulp* That's got me day off to a fine start. Tea anyone?

I feel a song coming on...

Blofeld

11 March 2014 at 12:05  
Blogger Albert said...

Another bishop has bashed the Government. This time it's the Rt Rev'd Dr Peter Forster, Bishop of Chester, who is of the view that stay-at-home mothers and carers are being discriminated against in the tax and benefits system.

Am I missing something? Isn't that simply a fact? The Conservative Party, unjustly discriminates against families who earn less in order to put their families first. Put that alongside gay "marriage" and the recent unwillingness to protect the elderly and dying and it's hard to see why anyone would want to defend Conservatives on anything. They're anti-family and anti-life. They don't understand that life and the family are prior to the state and that the state gets its authority from life and the family.

11 March 2014 at 13:04  
Blogger Integrity said...

Blofeld said;....Being a Christian means to be Christ-like.

A brilliant comment at 10.47 by the way but I had just been reading your Avatar auto biography and I was at first amazed at your Age, the same birth year as my father but he has been dead 26 years. And then I continued with your story and thought this is incredible, he must say somewhere soon, and then God met me, but no, your the same old 'sinner from pinner'. Hence I quote you as above and must qualify that you must only tell the truth except on Cranmer's Blog.
Bless you on your 106th birthday in April you old rogue.
Keep up the good work.

11 March 2014 at 13:06  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

I got on my flat cap, me fleecy leg wrap, medical boots, onesie
And Ernst is angry coz of the debt from ponzies
What we need is a real scheme
No austerity extreme but divine wisdom supreme
We only get conviction Mp's that are out on bail
Just want to live at home in peace coz I'm sick and frail
Well if they won't listen then I got me vote
Gonna scare the scumbags who are aloof and remote
Sometimes they're so slippy, it's like grabbing wet soap
So who are we to choose if they all seem the same
And this is is the dilemma, we must not play their game

So we're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're from Blighty, We're screwed


Now I love the Union
And the other moaning bits
Ahh, blimey, they're OK
But old Blighty is the place , we don't want no whinging twits
And I don't care if I ever go to Scotland anyway
Cause we got pride here and we pay our way
We've got tea, got bendy bananas, we've got our bangers and mash
so if they don't support the people there will be a flippin' backlash.

We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're from Blighty, We're screwed

Sing it with me--
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're from Blighty, We're screwed!

Now Blightys gone and gotten a badly soiled reputation,
Because of what happened in 2011 all over the silly nation
And we all know that politicians are swindlers and just plain loco
But when it comes to Christ, my friend, we aint no 'Loco-Foco'
I believe these words are as true as St. John the Revelator's
Think as a servant of Christ ( when putting down an X), this life is more than
shopping, sex, love of money and all earthly captivators.

But sadly...

We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're screwed, we're from Blighty
We're from Blighty, We're screwed!

We're from Blighty, We're screwed...

11 March 2014 at 13:13  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Integrity

"A brilliant comment at 10.47 by the way but I had just been reading your Avatar auto biography and I was at first amazed at your Age, the same birth year as my father but he has been dead 26 years. And then I continued with your story and thought this is incredible, he must say somewhere soon, and then God met me, but no, your the same old 'sinner from pinner'."

It's all down to Green tea, Good coffee, Hobnobs and Garibaldi's and me slices of daily bread from 'His Nibs'. Five a day? * Chuckling like crazy*

Blowers the ancient and decrepit

11 March 2014 at 13:22  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

If the Christians of the UK seriously want a collective voice the need to bury the hatchet of sectarianism and factional division and unite in common cause and rebuild our cultural identity.

The Christian Church is dying and ineffectual because it is clueless how to justify its place in the 21st Century. Not the fault of atheists. Not the fault of homosexuals. Not the fault of Islamism or anything like it; other than its own smug Establishment complacency.

Not everyone who is atheist, agnostic, otherwise religious or simply not-religiously committed in any direction, share common British traditional values, that are essentially not being upheld by any identifiable group or political party.

Farrage is quite right when he said that this country in many aspects is no longer recognisable by those of use with more than a few years under our belts. To post-1950s generations the ‘now’, is all they have ever known, yet no one is in any position of authority to direct them to anything better. In spite of being part of a nation still of 91% British, white skinned Europeans of Christian heritage, I and millions of others, have been made to feel marginalised through well-meaning equality legislation and left wing domination of the media and educational systems.

London is not Great Britain, but the political classes think and act as it is. It does it represent the conditions, life-styles or ambitions and aspirations of the bulk of the population. You don’t have to be white or live in London and the South East to be British. You don’t have to be religious to be British, but you do have to conform to the Rule of Law and British tradition. Britain does not need multicultural colonialisation – but that is what has happened in certain areas of the country and indeed, the capital.
Christians on this blog especially, don’t have to preach to me about how the abortion law is being abused or that same sex marriage is a pantomime: neither do I have to agree with you that there is such a thing as god; let alone give my respect to Religion of any description – that’s my business and mine alone.

Ukip is not the complete answer. It is a one white-man, one trick pony of an idea which because of the political dross it sits in, is a diamond in the dark.

Ukip’s widest appeal is in what used to be described as the ‘British Working Class; ’largely culturally Christian and tolerant of slow change. If the Christian Churches, Bishops and sundry bell-clangers, put their arrogant moaning and bitching to one side, and accepted they have lost touch with the ‘moral’ majority, they could just possibly set the political landscape on fire, by association with a reformed and reforming-focused UKIP – and does British politics have some dead-wood to clear.

I would vote for it.

11 March 2014 at 13:36  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Indeed Dreadnaught..But as HG and old Brillo may state... Farage is a good debater but he is not a leader as such...A modern day, Lord Tebbit at holding his own in argument, but no Mrs Thatcher or that ilk.*Gulp..We're Screwed*

Blofeld

ps

Off to get me top dentures tweaked, as they are giving me no end of grief with ulcers, from me gorgeous Katie, my NHS dentist specialising in the care of decrepit old sorts like me. She's a smasher!!
Thank you Lord for small mercies of beauty and kindness.

Pps

Reminder to Ernst - must remember to delete this post else Mrs B sees it and I have to wipe me own backside later. *Giggles*

11 March 2014 at 13:47  
Blogger Albert said...

Dreadnaught,

The Christian Church is dying and ineffectual because it is clueless how to justify its place in the 21st Century.

Not quite. It is simply impossible to justify Christianity in the naturalistic worldview to which modernity is, for now, fundamentalistically committed.

11 March 2014 at 14:49  
Blogger IanCad said...

Some terrific comments today.
Corrigan-- Courage Man!
Ernst --You're an inspiration.
Dreadnaaught -- You've got it nailed down. But! We still have a Tory Party, which, if reformed, would most reflect the conservatism of our land.

Having fits here--Still can't paste into blogger.

11 March 2014 at 14:49  
Blogger Diksha Soni said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 March 2014 at 15:16  
Blogger Eric Royden said...

Your comment on Bishop Forster is unfair and unworthy. He is one of the few Bishops who speaks in a conservative way and amazingly for a bishop in a biblical way. And on this occasion he speaks well. What notice would this unConservative government take of a private phone call.You have it wrong this time.

(Ramsaymac)













11 March 2014 at 15:24  
Blogger Ben Ryan said...

I believe the Bishop was speaking in regard to a new CARE report on taxation. They produce it every year, invite MPs and Lords to a launch in the Palace of Westminster. It never gets any coverage and despite repeated promises David Cameron has done nothing to relieve their concerns. A bit of splash in the media is the only way to get politicians to answer your calls.

11 March 2014 at 15:30  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Blowers, Happy Jack is interested in your new picture. Are you now a wed-hot sportsman after wild game?

*chuckle*

Jack thinks you need some west and wewaxation. Here's a little ditty to sing:

Povewty twap, Povewty twap.
Fifteen quid fwom the Povewty twap.
Povewty twap, Povewty twap.
Fifteen quid fwom the Povewty twap.

Two old Ewnty’s sitting in the sand;
Each one wishing the othew wewen’t a man

Povewty twap, Povewty twap.
Fifteen quid fwom the Povewty twap.
Povewty twap, Povewty twap.
Fifteen quid fwom the Povewty twap.


*Heh-heh-heh-heh*

11 March 2014 at 15:30  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Ben Ryan

I believe the Bishop was speaking in regard to a new CARE report on taxation. They produce it every year, invite MPs and Lords to a launch in the Palace of Westminster. It never gets any coverage

I just googled for care report taxation. Nothing to do with any church or any bishops showed up on either of the first two pages. Are you sure they're going about publicizing their work in the right way? Was it worth the trouble and expense of hosting a reception for MPs and hacks in the Palace of Westminster?

11 March 2014 at 16:48  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

HJ

"Blowers, Happy Jack is interested in your new picture. Are you now a wed-hot sportsman after wild game?

"Bwowers twied to wun wings awound the Woman Wascal, twusty wifle in hand, but ended in wuins as the bwog wangers wushed to the bwirdies wescue and bwowers and wifle were too wate and he was weft feewing vewy wagged. !!

"Jack thinks you need some west and wewaxation." Wewy wewy fwightening me! I should be so wucky, wucky, wucky wucky!!

*Heh-heh-heh-heh*

"huh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh."

Bwowers

11 March 2014 at 17:01  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

HJ

Now you are going to make us both only fit for the high jump with His Nibs.

Thought I was commenting on a dead thread, having three open simultaneously.

Apologises Your Grace.

Darn and Blast it. You are a bad influence on a tottery old codger, jack lad.

Blofeld

11 March 2014 at 17:06  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

The Independent. “married couples with only one earner keep less of every extra pound they earn in the UK than in any other country in the developed world."…

…due to having to fund a huge welfare budget, of course. That is the reason, is it not ?

Let’s have a look from a different direction: “married couples with children with one earner are worse off than married couples with children where neither works”. Perhaps the bishops automatically side with the latter. The ‘dispossessed’ albeit better off rather than the mere struggling. That’s what the crazy world of benefits largesse has resulted in, damn confusion of rational thought.

As you are, IDS, you are on the right course. Let’s hope the children of this present crop of dole wallahs get back into the idea that it is better to be financially independent of the state than to live off it. And that means hard study at school, not texting. It means aiming for a worthwhile career, not ‘celebrity’ status. It means living in the REAL world. It means being hurt and hurting like the rest of us, as is man’s due lot.





11 March 2014 at 17:42  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...



Excellent insight from you this morning, Corrigan. Extraordinarily on the money. Just shows what an able commentator you can be when you don’t throw yourself to the ground and roll around in the mire that is the Palestinian ‘difficulty’. The stuff does {AHEM} stick to you, don’t you find…

Bob Crow died today. The Inspector respected that man. He did exactly what was written on his tin. He did his best for his own and he worked with those who didn’t have the best interests of his own in the first instance. One does recall when the Conservative party was bursting with types like him. Individuals you can trust, as if you almost knew them personally, such was theirs and yours joint understanding. IDS for example. And then came ‘that damnable list’ to put an end to it all. Conservatism comes from the ground upwards. It cannot be learnt by the ambitious unprincipled metropolitan, and any attempt by these people to blag their way through is nothing but a glaring sore in the sight of those who can see and have seen better.

So raise a glass tonight to the memory of Mr Crow, and salute his honesty if nothing else. That alone brings him nearer to the Conservative politician of old than the current crowd…





11 March 2014 at 17:42  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"So raise a glass tonight to the memory of Mr Crow, and salute his honesty if nothing else. That alone brings him nearer to the Conservative politician of old than the current crowd…"

Indeed. At least with their lot you KNEW you had to keep a firm hand on your wallet, rather than this lot having them hugging you in public selfies and telling porkies that they love us!!

Blofeld

11 March 2014 at 17:47  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

He described himself as a communist socialist, and was an atheistic, but when he said something you knew you didn’t have to look back over your shoulder in doubt. That Blowers, is the kind of man the Inspector can do business with...

11 March 2014 at 17:56  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! My Lord the Bishop has little time for phone calls - it's Lent and there a poor men's feet to wash. Fortunately, the Duke of Omnium dines at our table so we have the ear of the politician without recourse to Mr. Graham Bell's wizardry, and the Duke loves my hobnobs. As for the Monstrous Crow, didn't he flap his wings and scare small boys?

11 March 2014 at 18:00  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

We don't do business with Bolsheviks, dear Inspector General. They do nasty things in cellars...

11 March 2014 at 18:02  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

But then so does Mr Slope...

11 March 2014 at 18:02  
Blogger non mouse said...

So, for God's sake, Your Graces and Eminences, pick up the phone. It's good to talk.

Oh, but Your Grace -- These are all princes, courtesy of the euSSR! As such, talk ( bombast) is what they know best; and they worship the words of some men, but not of others.

As YG's 7th paragraph might suggest: neither side of the "debate" understands the origin of its own thought, let alone of the opposite side. Rather, I believe, they are concerned chiefly with the images they think their words project, and often with the power their edicts wield for the Marxist umbrella (which includes some Christians). These princes are as demi-gods -- pagan ones who worship higher-ranking idols and the interests of Cupidity.

The problem then lies in persuading our god-princes to respond to realities they've known only hazily, but which fully inform the thoughts, lives, and actions of lower orders. Especially of the insolvent trash even their cats wouldn't drag into the palace.

Might we, then, remind potential leaders of the concept of Almighty God, the Word who created all us verbal image-makers in His own image? He did more in deed, for He sent His own Son to us as just such an image-maker. This deed shows that our God and Son, King of Kings and Prince of Princes, understands what it's like to be mired "in earth." He stressed the point by not appearing as a prince, but as the son of a carpenter in an Israel subjugated to pagan colonial power. And He didn't pay Rome a lot of lip-service:* in "Render unto Caesar,"** He indicated that coins were wrought in the man-god's image, but ...

So maybe that's the example our princes should follow. Maybe we should require them to prove their worth by stripping themselves of glory for a number of years, and living among the insolvent trash they have created, and/or must 'care' for. Then they might begin to understand what they have to do (rather than merely say). And such apprenticeship could train leaders worth having - whether secular or spiritual.

No, you say? It'll never fly? Well how else can we deal with pagan demi-gods in all their arbitrariness, immorality, trickery, rivalry, and metamorphoses? Bloggers are not the only human image-makers who refuse to idolise them.

______________________
*Which is why Herod let the High Priests choose 'crucifixion.'(Luke 23:13-24)
*Matt. 22:20-22

11 March 2014 at 18:30  
Blogger Albert said...

No one seems to care that what the bishop said is actually right and that the present situation is unjust and anti-family. How odd. Mention homosexuality and these kinds of conservative points come up. Put it in the context of taxation and it goes off on a tangent...

11 March 2014 at 18:38  
Blogger non mouse said...

Actually, Albert, I do see that you are right. Indeed, part my point partly sprang from knowing that the ruin of family life produces a self-perpetuating downward spiral--at all socio-economic levels.

However, some time living among and as the have-nots might help even right-thinking "haves" to understand how so many such situations have arisen, while seeking how best to resolve them. There's nothing like working on the production-line oneself...

11 March 2014 at 18:52  
Blogger non mouse said...

'part of my point' -sorry.

11 March 2014 at 18:54  
Blogger Albert said...

Non mouse, I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties (if I understand you correctly). I think you hit the nail on the head. Where families are ruined everyone suffers, even, in many cases, the tax man. The solution is for the state to do all in its power to support the family (this is one of the main duties of the state). The best way to support the family is to reward, or at least, not penalise, those who attempt to arrange their lives around their families.

The Tories won't do this because they have no grasp of the realities of poverty, and they no longer have have ant grasp of traditional conservative values either. They have no substance now.

11 March 2014 at 19:14  
Blogger non mouse said...

Ummm. Thank you, Albert, but I wasn't referring to my difficulties. - I meant, rather the principle that Christ illustrated: those who aspire to helping, and who are equipped to succeed, need to live amid the life and conditions of the people.

Yes, I also agree with you completely about the rest.

11 March 2014 at 19:56  
Blogger Albert said...

Sorry non mouse - re-reading your previous post, I can't see how I made that mistake!

11 March 2014 at 20:07  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

“What can you do to promote world peace? Go home and love your family.”
(Mother Teresa)

"What can you do to promote a nation's wellbeing? Promote and protect family life.
(Happy Jack)

11 March 2014 at 20:19  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

"Darn and Blast it. You are a bad influence on a tottery old codger, jack lad."

That should've been:

"Dawn and Bwast it. You awe a bad infwence on a tottewy owd codgew, jack wad."

*chuckle*

11 March 2014 at 21:16  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

My dearest Mrs Proudie. You are somewhat missing the point. Mr Crow WAS a Bolshevik and everybody knew that. Whereas a certain Prime Minister qualified introducing a sneaky policy by informing us all that he was doing so because he is a Conservative. Now, dear thing, which man would you have entrusted with your purse, whilst you spent a penny of it...

11 March 2014 at 21:18  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Inspector, Happy Jack says that doesn't make Mr Crow better - just different. In Crow's hands, the safety of Mrs Proudies' purse would first and foremost depend on the class she was seen as belonging to. No doubt it's the same 'at top', except it's money now and not class.

11 March 2014 at 22:11  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Not quite Jack. On entrusting a purse to the man, a simple question - will it be returned intact ? Such was his honest reputation, if he so decided that Mrs Proudie was so of the ruling elite that said purse could be relived of some of its burden, he would surely have said so.

11 March 2014 at 22:37  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Happy Jack said...

"Darn and Blast it. You are a bad influence on a tottery old codger, jack lad."

That should've been:

"Dawn and Bwast it. You awe a bad infwence on a tottewy owd codgew, jack wad."

*chuckle*"

Hung by me own Petawd! *Chowtwes*

Blowers

ps

I was beyond mortification when Ernst realised he was jesting with you on a live thread..

It was very like... Daniel 5

Then in the same hour came forth the avatar of a long dead Archbishop, who appeared to the right of the Blog comments page wall and and old Blowers saw the words beside the avatar and knew that he was sore displeased with Blowers.

Then old Blowers countenance changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his hips were loosened and his knees knocked against each other.

Old Blowers cried aloud and asked for the professional blog mourners of those about to be reprimanded and publicly deleted, to appeal on his behalf.

There was not one found that could or would mourn aloud for him to the Archbishop.

In that same night was BadBack Blowers, the Jester of the Erudites, shown lamebrain.

He was summarily reprimanded and deleted!!

*Gasp*

Blowers

Ps

Hope this thread is now, sort of, dead? *grimace*

11 March 2014 at 22:40  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! Well Mr Inspector, I am an earl's granddaughter married to a bishop, so make of that what you will. Ruling elite? Pshaw! I am as addicted to Strictly Come Dancing as the next fishwife...do you think Artem does private lap dances?

11 March 2014 at 22:43  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Failing Artem, how about you Happy Jack?

11 March 2014 at 22:43  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Not quite Jack. On entrusting a purse to the man, a simple question - will it be returned intact ? Such was his honest reputation, if he so decided that Mrs Proudie was so of the ruling elite that said purse could be relived of some of its burden, he would surely have said so.@

He earned over 145K per annum yet lived in cheap Housing Association accommodation, paying peanuts for a home that could have housed a homeless brother or sister 'comrade'?

Principled to their own cause and convictions, nowt else!!

Blowers

11 March 2014 at 22:44  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Blowers

*chuckle*

Happy Jack's heart also skips a beat when the Archbishop suddenly appears out of nowhere with his words of reproach. It's happened to Jack a couple of times now. However, Jack believes HG permits the occasional cordial exchange and witticism.

Inspector, Blowers said it before Happy Jack. Compare the cut of Crow's suits and his manicured hands to that of Arthur Scargill or Michael Foot. Jack does not wish to speak ill of the dead, but the man was a career unionist and a loud mouthed bully. He 'played' a part - the Ray Winstone of the working man - when he was rolling in it.

12 March 2014 at 00:05  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Typical lefty clocking out early!

12 March 2014 at 01:02  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

His brief time here is done. Whatever he appeared to be in life, Happy Jack hopes his soul is at peace.

12 March 2014 at 13:51  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Corrigan and The Inspector:

Couldn't agree more with the analyses - the party of Disraeli is dead, and so is the party of Atlee.

Crow was the last bout of indigestion for a modern politics that has largely devoured the Labour movements of the past who possessed a genuine conviction for social justice. Like the plague cows in Pharoah's dream, it has consumed all the goodness in the land, and yet not grown fatter but more diseased.

12 March 2014 at 14:13  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Belfast, except that Mr Crow based his convictions on division and class warfare, not the pursuit of social justice as envisaged by the early Labour movement.

12 March 2014 at 16:51  
Blogger Len said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

13 March 2014 at 08:32  
Blogger Len said...

Pope Francis is very concerned about 'social justice'..His 'all inclusive' Church is on the way......
Is this on your site yet Jack?.


Pope says Catholic Church should not dismiss gay marriage.

'Pope Francis says the issue of gay marriage should be studied and not dismissed out-of-hand, a senior Roman Catholic cardinal has reveal


Read more: http://bob-mitchell.blogspot.com/#ixzz2vpYnxIiw

13 March 2014 at 08:49  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Len, Happy Jack says you missed a bit from your press release:

"Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the outspoken archbishop of New York, said Pope Francis had told him: “Rather than quickly condemn them, let’s just ask the questions as to why that has appealed to certain people.”

Seek and ye shall find, eh? Applies to untruths too.

How's things going on the Temple Mount? You promised to keep us all updated. Has the pope struck a deal yet with the Jews?

13 March 2014 at 19:46  
Blogger non mouse said...

Albert@ 20:07 11/03 -)
__________________

My other interest in this thread is the relationship between commie and Christian approaches to socio-economics: I've just re-read More's Utopia. At one point in Book Two his narrator Raphael, explaining the conversion of the Utopians, adds: "... I imagine that they were also considerably affected by the information that Christ prescribed of his own disciples a communist way of life, which is still practised today in most truly Christian communities" (Utopia 118).* Translator Paul Turner explains in Endnote 37: "There is, of course, no recorded statement by Jesus expressing approval of communism, but His answer to the man who 'had great possessions' (Mark, x, 21) implies that his disciples did not retain any private property; and it is clear from Acts, ii, 44-5, and iv, 32,that the early Church was organized on communist lines." Turner's note 38 clarifies that More himself provided a marginal gloss explaining that truly Christian communities "means monasteries and convents" (Utopia 144).
We do also know that More understood monastic life, because "For four years in his youth he shared the living conditions of the monks in the Charterhouse," (Introduction 14). He obviously decided against a clerical career - having become notorious, oh dear, as a politician.

My point is that the houses of present-day communists and Christians arose from the same foundation, and some of both probably acknowledge that. Knowingly or not, though, later communists (Marxists) have followed Christ's example of operating within the "working class" communities they sought to influence. They have further applied Christian example by extending education to reach the Establishment and professions - thus affecting all "classes." For Marxists though, the motive has been mostly secular and intent upon control, infiltration and political subversion of Christian society. Once the methodology has worked for them, their exercise of cupidity is no less than that of weak or hypocritical Christians. Marxist leaders play demi-goddery as well as anybody.

As other posts on this thread seem to suggest, we now need religio-political leaders who apply the technique in Christ's spirit, and along with His Gospel. I guess His Grace's last post on this indicates that His Grace of Chester, Deo Gratias, is a little ahead on this score!
_____________________
More, Thomas. Utopia. Trans. and Introduction, Paul Turner. London: Penguin, 1961. Print. [First published in 1516 at Louvain - in Latin]

13 March 2014 at 20:05  
Blogger Len said...

Happy Jack.
NEW YORK — Cardinal Timothy Dolan said Sunday (March 9) that Pope Francis is asking the Catholic Church to look at the possibility of recognizing civil unions for gay couples, although the archbishop of New York said that he would be “uncomfortable” if the church embraced that position.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/cardinal-dolan-pope-francis-opened-door-to-gay-civil-unions-debate




17 March 2014 at 11:24  

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