Thursday, June 12, 2014

Iraq descends into Islamist anarchy – we reap what we sow


It is only Islamist anarchy (ie terrorists' lawless chaos) from our perspective. From the viewpoint of the Islamist militants, it is Islamic anarchy (ie socially autonomous regions free of central coercion). The State of Iraq is reverting to its lateral tribal structure, without an operative top, or head or centre. The Islamist anarchists (aka Sunni Muslim militants) insist that they operate by politically and religiously acceptable means. But as to what count as unacceptable means cannot be determined because different types of anarchists differ on the specifications, having rejected the force, coercion and authoritarianism of the state.

Holistic and tribal means are anarchically admissible, as are utterly individualistic ones. So, as they take the Iraqi cities of Mosul and Tikrit, having already secured Ramadi and Falluja, they are not concerned for the humanitarian situation or the displacement of half a million people: their divine mission is to overthrow the central oppression of the infidel. The anarchy that follows is a more acceptable form of organisation, for it entails a relatively non-coercive, non-authoritarian organisation - the voluntary and co-operative organisation which is in submission to Allah.

If the US and other Western nations send military or strategic assistance to Iraq's government, the insurgents - an al-Qaeda offshoot called the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS/ISIL) - the disparate anarchic groups will unite in opposition to the naked authority and coercion of the the Great Satan.

No man or human organisation can ever rightfully exercise authority over that which is ordained by Allah: the only authority that is justified is that which is revealed through his Messenger. No king, no president and no state has the right to push the soldiers of Allah around.

Compared to the fate which is about to descend upon Iraq's minorities - Shia, Kurd and Christian - Saddam Hussein was a relatively benign dictator. He may have channelled privilege and wealth to certain favoured minorities, and he may have persecuted others, but he was a recognisable state power, subject to the testings and judgments of the international community. Societies are not ineluctably saddled with states: as we are now seeing, states can be displaced or even decay, and so political obligation lapses or vanishes, for there is no controlling political authority and no identifiably strongman.

ISIS/ISIL now controls a large part of eastern Syria and western and central Iraq. They will soon march on Baghdad to depose Shia PM Nouri Maliki and wipe out the infidels who entrench inequities, domination and exploitation. The human cost will be profound; their suffering unimaginable. We can deplore and condemn and issue all the resolutions we want: we are simply reaping what we have sown.

104 Comments:

Blogger Father David said...

Seems to me that what is needed here to sort things out is a strong man with a moustache.

12 June 2014 at 09:11  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Tony Blair must be so proud he brought democracy to this blighted country.

12 June 2014 at 09:15  
Blogger William Lewis said...

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12 June 2014 at 09:17  
Blogger dav phi said...

Are these not the people our government supports as they are seeking the ousting of Assad?

12 June 2014 at 09:33  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

We haven't reaped anything like what has been sown yet. After the withdrawal from Afghanistan the stain of Islamic Anarchy in Syria/Iraq will spread eastwards and on into Pakistan where the prize of a nuclear arsenal awaits.

Meanwhile in the former nation of Iraq we hear heart rending cries from minorities drowning in their own blood.

This is from Dominican Friar Fr. Najeeb Michaeel:

Bad news. I write you in a situation of violence in Mosul that is very critical and even apocalyptic. Most of the inhabitants of the city have already abandoned their houses and fled into the villages and are sleeping in the open without anything to eat or drink. Many thousands of armed men from the Islamic Groups of Da’ash have attacked the city of Mosul for the last two days. They have assassinated adults and children. The bodies have been left in the streets and in the houses by the hundreds, without pity. The regular forces and the army have also fled the city, along with the governor. In the mosques, they cry “Allah Akbar, long live the Islamic State.” Qaraqosh is overflowing with refugees of all kinds, without food or lodging. The check points and the Kurdish forces are blocking innumerable refugees from entering Kurdistan. What we are living and what we have seen over the last two days is horrible and catastrophic. The priory of Mar Behnam and other churches fell into the hands of the rebels this morning... and now they have come here and entered Qaraqosh five minutes ago, and we are now surrounded and threatened with death... pray for us. I’m sorry that I can’t continue... They are not far from our convent...

I feel totally gutted and utterly appalled.

12 June 2014 at 09:48  
Blogger Martin Marprelate said...

There is only one thing to do- send for Blair! Isn't he the Middle East Envoy or something, because of his deep understanding of religious issues and his great success in Iraq last time?

For some reason Revelation 16:12-16 comes into my mind.

12 June 2014 at 09:50  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Send for Blair indeed. And chain him and Bush to a wall in Baghdad.

Friends, once the Caliphate is secure it will launch the final assault on Israel. Some of us know what that means.

Make the best of the remaining time.

12 June 2014 at 10:06  
Blogger Hannah said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12 June 2014 at 10:12  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi All,

4 points.

First. What tells us a lot is that the Iraqi people don't actually want to live under a fundamentalist Islamic state either;why else would half a million people have fled when Monsul was captured by these Jihadists? Yet again another humanitarian catastrophe brought about by fanatics who believe that they are introducing a 'paradise' on earth.

Second. To what extent is the current situation in Iraq the result of the Blair/Bush war? I remember reading a paper and the argument was put forward that this was why Bush I never ordered the overthrow of Saddam. Is this our responsibility? What can we do short of another war? If we don't do anything what will happen?

Third. Before 1948, Iraq had a large Jewish population, which had been there since the days of the Biblical exile and exiles from Spain after the 1492 expulsions. Baghdad the capital was a quarter Jewish. Alas that changed and Iraq's and the middle east's Jewish population- the Mizhari and Sephardi- were ethnically cleansed & forced to flee to other countries, mostly Israel. This is simply round 2 & someone will have to be the scapegoat for the angry deity of the Islamic militants. Alas Jews can't fulfill this role. So they're coming for Christians now there are no Jews left in the region. And people wonder why Israel needs to be strong in the region. Just look at Iraq and Syria.

Fourth .But why do Christians not do anything for their own people?
If Iraq still had a Jewish population, you'd can bet Bibi would be prepping the F-16's, mobilizing the IDF and telling his generals to prepare a rescue mission; oh Israel did that via Operation Ezra and Nehemiah between 1950 and 1952.

12 June 2014 at 10:21  
Blogger IanCad said...

You've got it YG.

We are governed by pygmies.

Some of the same wretches who cried for the overthrow of Saddam, nearly got us into conflict in Syria, tried so hard to involve us in Libya and really, really, think that we should do something about Ukraine, are still in charge.

We need change.

Off with Hague's head for a start.

Make cosy with Russia - we'll need the oil.

Say sorry to Assad.

On the bright side; Could we be seeing an alliance between Iran and Israel??

Stranger things have happened.

12 June 2014 at 10:39  
Blogger RetiredPaul said...

A very large part of western governmental policy has been made recently on the basis of "my enemy's enemy is my friend", or could become so if I provide him with lots of money, guns, large Mercedes cars, etc.

Unfortunately, it is now becoming clear that my enemy's enemy actually hates us a lot more than they hate each other. And now we have provide them with the means to put that hatred into action!

'Pragmatic' politics has done a lot of damage, and has the scope to do a lot more. After all, I doubt if Iran has become a better place to live in for those with different religious views just because an even worse regime has now appeared just over the border.

Perhaps it is time for 'integrity' politics to be give a trial - provided we can find some politicians who understand the word.

12 June 2014 at 10:47  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

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12 June 2014 at 10:57  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

I'm sure that none of us like dictators, particularly ones such as Saddam.
But the fact is that he maintained order in the country, and whilst I accept that he did this by violent means, the average person who was not involved in politics or militant religion could get on with their lives in reasonable safety. Far less people were killed when he was in power than are being killed now that he has gone. Broadly the same applies in Syria and Libya, nasty dictators, but there was generally peace for those who just got on with their lives and accepted the status quo.

12 June 2014 at 11:00  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

English Pensioner, my friend Omar from Mosul would agree.

12 June 2014 at 11:26  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

There is no crisis that determined politicians cannot exacerbate.

From reading the Wall Street Journal I'd say its now odds-on that Obama will provide what's left of Iraq with support of the kinetic variety from a great height and a safe distance. He is after all the holder of the Nobel peace prize. Maybe they'll give him another for collateral damage.

12 June 2014 at 11:33  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

What worries me is the shock and surprise on the face of the US politician coping. Something is really badly off when the people knew before the politicians how bad an idea the Iraq war was. The people knew before the politicians that the dodgy dossier was dodgy, and the people knew before the politicians that this was a likely outcome.

They are paid by the taxpayers to be more astute not less. And if you are a backbencher that includes not believing everything the Cabinet says necessarily, doing your homework, and raising questions and objections, whilst not being cowed at the first fence when they say "national security" in a solemn voice and look very serious.

Had the marchers been heard, none of this mess would have happened.

12 June 2014 at 11:58  
Blogger Father David said...

English Pensioner, don't forget Egypt! Things haven't been too good there either since the downfall of Hosni Mubarak and our Coptic brothers and sisters have suffered greatly since then.

12 June 2014 at 11:59  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

Sorry that "coping" was a completely wrong word. "Allocated" or "responding" - at least to the cameras- would be more accurate.

They treated Ron Paul like an unpatriotic nutcase when he warned persistently about "blowback" incidentally.

Now we see it- again.

12 June 2014 at 12:01  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

If Osama bin Laden was in a position to do so, he would be ROTFLHAO over this.

His plan has unfolded exactly as hoped. Hit the USA, provoke an overreaction, unite the jihadist ummah against the Great Satan, replace secular Arab dictatorships with Islamic emirates and eventually re-estahlish the Caliphate.

Next stage is to wipe the Zionist entity off the map while Europe self destructs with debt funded pleasure seeking and useful idiots encourage stealth jihad.

Never mind, theres the footy.......

12 June 2014 at 12:12  
Blogger Guy Jones said...

@ Father David

Egypt is moving forward I believe. The revolution is over. Sisi is welcomed by Christians and should bring order.

12 June 2014 at 12:14  
Blogger Nath said...

As the chap in charge of ISIS states, he is the herald of the caliphate.

We are witnessing the equivalent of Islam's Elijah, he who comes before the Mehdi: he may well be the herald of our anti-Christ.

As internal borders implode a single Islamic region slowly emerges. But as I understand it only the seat of power which dissolved the last caliphate can re-establish it, so all eyes on Istanbul and the re-vived Ottoman Empire.

"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come." [Proof text ;) Revelation 17.7]

"The Messenger of Allah said: The black banners will come from the East and their hearts will be as firm as iron. Whoever hears of them should join them and give allegiance, even if it means crawling across snow. " Islamic tradition.

12 June 2014 at 12:17  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Your Grace,
Where do they get their weapons from? Was it from the weapons dumps that the Americans bypassed in the last war or is it as usual, we have some very fat rich arms manufacturers selling to both sides?

12 June 2014 at 12:19  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, the popping noise you can hear is not the sound of Kalashnikovs being fired in the air but that of champagne corks in Riyadh, capital of Saudi Arabia.

The House of Saud is much more than a generous financier of British faith schools. It supports any Sunni faction it can find in the Middle East and North Africa with a view to thwarting the designs of the Shia, and the Shia are backed by Iran.

In this context, the success of ISIS is not a disaster but a cause for rejoicing. If the notionally democratic, but largely Sh-ite Iraqi government falls, with its leadership being rescued from the roofs of their palaces by Iranian helicopters, so much the better. Democracy is anathema to an absolute monarchy and must be ruthlessly and righteously eradicated. If Iran is humiliated in the process, so much the better.

Your communicant admits to being completely wrong in his optimism about the Arab Spring, although notes the new pharaoh has gone through the motions of democratic legitimacy in Egypt. What was his share of the vote, 90%, 99%, or 99.99%? One forgets.

In the meantime the main positive outcome is that the British and other Western jihadis can celebrate their desert victory by staying on as citizens of their newly formed caliphate. Educated by the House of Saud, let them serve their despot of choice, accept citizenship of the caliphate and be stripped of their British citizenship.

12 June 2014 at 12:19  
Blogger Len said...

I think what we are seeing now on a Global scale is the battle which is being fought in the Heavenlies acted out on Earth.
Good versus evil might sound like an oversimplification but it is what is happening.
The West has become greatly weakened by trying to remove God from society and God`s restraining hand on evil is now being relaxed.
We are now(as HG says) seeing evil being able to act without restraint as we reap what we (or rather a small group within our society)have sown... but we will all reap the consequences!.
Forces might have been put into action which are now irreversible?.
By removing Saddam Hussein and then attempting to do the same with Bashar al-Assad we in the West have made bad situations even worse.
Destabilizing Countries is very dangerous as it seems to only benefit Islamic fundamentalist groups.

12 June 2014 at 12:21  
Blogger Ars Hendrik said...

I think we are getting to a point where Islam (call it Islamism if it makes you feel better) will consolidate itself into a geographical entity in strict accordance with its own beliefs. It will sit upon a firm foundation of Sharia law, with no compromises to the West and no compromises to Christians or Jews or secularists or anyone else. It will be violent, aggressive and expansionist and will continue the military colonisation and conversion of the world begun in the 6th century. In this respect it is scrupulously honest.

Hanna @ 10:21 makes a vital point in her final paragraph. If it were Jews not Christians being hounded, then Israel would immediately take military action. Steve points to the same inevitability @ 10:06.

I agree with the relatively recent convert to conservatism David Mamet, who argues that Israel has been fighting the West's war against Islam for years now. This point was also made by Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel's PM. Now, we will have to fight for ourselves, against both the external and internal threats presented by Islam.

If only we had leaders like Netanyahu in the West, instead of wet blankets like Cameron and Obama. We will soon need them.


12 June 2014 at 12:30  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

The Daily Mash seems to have the best measure of it in this article.

This quote seems to pretty much sum it up:
"A US state department source added: “It’s fair to say that our general dicking about in Muslim countries hasn’t always worked.

“We got rid of Saddam not realising that, as well as being a prick, he was also keeping the lid on a big basket full of fucknuts."

12 June 2014 at 13:07  
Blogger Ivan said...


If only we had leaders like Netanyahu in the West, ...

As if the Israelis were not at the forefront of those baying for Syrian blood only a few months ago. The Israelis are interested only in themselves. Since they have knack of living dangerously, controlled chaos is something they always assume that they can handle. And what is your plan, Hendrik? Send a million men to pacify the Middle-East? Or maybe kill a million or more?

12 June 2014 at 13:18  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Ars
This cosolidation occurred years ago-its called Saudi Arabia.
Blue dog
The current rulers certainly won't be popping champagne corks in Riyadh. They have been suppressing this kind of radicalism at home for the last decade.They prefer other ways to protect their power and extend influence than to support the ragbag ISIS.
Hannah
The people fled because they don't want to get caught up in the counter attack that Iran will be extending a helping hand to.

12 June 2014 at 13:30  
Blogger Ars Hendrik said...

Ivan @ 13:18

I think the Israeli response to Syria (and all of the others) was to accurately predict what is actually happening in the region and point out the stupidity of Western attempts to sponsor 'democratic' alternatives to dictators. The alternatives are all Islamists who want a Muslim theocracy in the countries they are fighting to win. They are unified by faith and also a deep hatred of the West (including Israel of course). These people are not our friends. The Israelis are.

As for sending millions to fight, are you joking? I am completely against the idiotic military campaigns such as those conducted in Iraq and Afghanistan. They have been a complete waste of life on all sides and have only served to hasten what was inevitable – the propagation of Islamic theocracies. We do not have to send armies against these emerging Islamic powers; merely wait, for as sure as night follows day they will continue their expansionism into Europe and beyond.

As for what to do about it? Brace ourselves, I suppose.

12 June 2014 at 13:37  
Blogger Rodney Dobson said...

Except that WE are not reaping what we have sown! The bitter harvest is left to others.

12 June 2014 at 13:40  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Hullo boys, the southern Caliphate is reforming.

Turkey has a big army. I hope that they are well equipped and trained. They need reassurance from the rest of Nato and sane men need to be kept in positions of power.

The nukes in Pakistan need protecting or neutralising.

Thank God that Israel has strong realistic leaders.

Russia is not our enemy. Kiss and make up, and then play nicely together on roughly the same side.

We see the results of the western left/liberal naive belief that all faiths will simply fade away, like the morning mist, before the dazzling heat of scientific progress coupled to good ole democracy. The myth they peddled runs something like - all the peoples of the whole wide world will soon join hands in a neutral secular zone and any remaining "spirituality" will be nice, tame and syncretistic. Right !

Surely now the western countries' public will finally see that they have been led by fools, totally out of their little depths, as the world becomes not less, but ever more religious.

Sack Hague, Cameron and the other non-leaders and get in some real leaders of vision who will do what is necessary to defend continental europe and these islands.

My recent memories of the Valley of Armageddon take on a special significance. Now the west will relearn its actual place in geopolitical history. I predict we will see a lot of headless chickens, the establishment politicians, demonstrating their total inadequacy, their non-grasp of reality in the face of these massive religious and cultural forces.



12 June 2014 at 13:41  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

The Muslims have a 57 country organisation called The Islamic Organisation for Co-operation. Its been agitating for a seat at the UN so its no Mickey Mouse outfit.

They are the ones and the only ones who should get involved. No Blood - No Treasure.

The West must STAY OUT of any involvement and suspend all immigration from any of these 57 States no ifs or buts - a total moratorium on immigration until Islam undergoes reformation which may take a thousand years.

Its not bloody Rocket Science even if they have them!

12 June 2014 at 13:46  
Blogger Ars Hendrik said...

Manfarang @ 13:30

'This cosolidation occurred years ago-its called Saudi Arabia.'

Saudi isn't really what I'm talking about, as it has been content to sit within its own borders and trade most effectively with the West. The descendants of Ibn Saud see no irreligiousness in bartering with us and enjoying the many luxuries endowed to the wealthy (especially when holidaying in the fleshpots of Europe).

The Islamists I am talking about are a new breed (or old, depending upon how you look at it). They will swallow up the Saudi ruling class with the same enthusiasm currently shown elsewhere.

12 June 2014 at 13:46  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi Manfarang,

Glad to see you are still posting, even after the coup in Thailand.

Um, so do you think Iraqis really do want to live under that ghastly Sharia? What's next; are we going to have gays strung up on cranes & adulterers stoned to death?

12 June 2014 at 14:07  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi Ars,

Yes, well, I'll never understand why there isn't more of an outrage about these events. I never do quite get why the western elite seems to get fixated by Israel, demanding boycotts etc,yet is turning a blind eye to the atrocious slaughter of Christians in the middle east.

I wonder which country in the middle east, which isn't Christian, is a place which the far left deride as an 'apartheid state', where Christianity is flourishing?

12 June 2014 at 14:12  
Blogger Ars Hendrik said...

Hi Hannah,

Trendy liberals hate Israel and side with Palestine – it sort of comes with the territory and is a throwback to a naïve time when leftist ideas were inculcated by rote in our universities and media, which necessarily portrayed the poor Palestinian minority as the victim of Israeli (and therefore American) opportunism. Somewhere, a bunch of comfortable middle-aged men are still dreaming of donning striped headscarves and marching in pursuit of their youth…

And never mind that, for example, Israel celebrated gay pride before Brighton did, whilst on the other side of the wall homosexuality is literally punished by death.

These inconvenient truths are the ones coming back to haunt us.

12 June 2014 at 14:37  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

England’s pleasant pastures having been sown with the seeds of Islam, what harvest will be gathered in? I can imagine future English Christians praying with all their hearts for the rule of a relatively benign dictator à la Saddam.

The politicians who instigated Third World immigration may have been acting with the best of intentions—addressing post-war labour shortages or believing that a Europe thick with racial and religious minorities would be the best defence against another Holocaust—but the outcome will be Christianity as a minority religion.

@ Rebel Saint (13:07)—If only the state department had glanced at Fouad Ajami’s 1992 book The Arab predicament: Arab political thought and practice since 1967 and its observation that ‘It has been hard for the Arabs to escape from a deep historical dilemma: prison or anarchy.’

12 June 2014 at 14:38  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

The reports arriving in the last few days suggest that the weakness of the central government in Baghdad has allowed ISIS to carry out its conquest of Nineveh/Mosul almost unopposed. What will Baghdad do now? Here is one angle, from the Washington Institute (link below), that strikes me as being overoptimistic. But if Baghdad does nothing, or not enough, presumably somebody else will. Iran, maybe? Short of IanCad’s proposed Iran-Israel alliance, will the ayatollahs want to, or dare to, step in to protect the Shiite communities, or will they decide they’ve already got their fingers too badly burnt in Syria?

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/mosul-security-crisis-a-chance-to-break-iraqs-political-logjam

12 June 2014 at 14:45  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Hannah said

"I never do quite get why the western elite seems to get fixated by Israel, demanding boycotts etc,yet is turning a blind eye to the atrocious slaughter of Christians in the middle east. "

The fruits of western secularism.

It neither knows nor understands anything about anyone (Who is an enemy and who is a friend)so blunders in, presuming all nations should be like it..all they need is encouraging in the madness.

Freedom should come from nations pressuring nations with soft power rather than stirring up insurgency and then standing back and hoping the right sort of chaps take over. We have encouraged complete chaos IN COUNTRIES COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRACY

Arabs hate us with a bitter and malignant fury and any help from we satanists is met with flag burning and suicide bombs.

We have usurped dictators that are Arabs (of their own kind) that maintained a kind of peace amongst their people yet believe that all we need to do is place some western style sock puppet and 'voila'. DEMOCRACY!

Imagine democracy being foisted on medieval Britain...would have been accepted peacefully by Royalty and feudal Barons? COBBLERS!!!

Even the struggles within our Isles towards where we have arrived as a nation never impacted other nations whereas the modern world is impacted greatly by any chaos that involves other nations in political turmoil and struggle. Look at the oil price rise now that Iraq is driven towards tribal chaos.

All that's left to say is "TA, Mr Blair" for leaving a legacy that keeps on giving to our nation and soon to arrive on our shores now that young 'Britains' *ironic sniggers* are rushing abroad in jihadi training and hoping to return and show us how much they have learned.

Blofeld

12 June 2014 at 14:51  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

Apparently there are 500 fledgling Jihadi's on the loose according to MI6 despite Dhimmi Dave's appeal to their mummies not to let them go.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10895111/Iraq-crisis-MI6-hunting-for-Britons-among-al-Qaeda-fighters.html

12 June 2014 at 15:26  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Well Len, I don't think I've said this before but I think I agree with you.

And we have a home secretary that banned Robert Spencer from visiting this country while allowing any number of jihadis to live here.

I'm not Islamophobic, I'm Islamoscaredsh*tless.

I think we may be commencing our final descent.

12 June 2014 at 15:37  
Blogger Ivan said...


Hendricks, yes when it came to Egypt with whom they had a peace treaty the Israelis were against the removal of Mubarak by the forces of the so-called Arab Spring. But depending on their particular needs they were active in calling for the removal of Assad, which came to a head after the alleged chemical attack in Ghoutta. Needless to say, the interests of Christians, Allawites and Shias who would be at the mercy of the of the cannibals of the ISIS, then operating in Syria and now in Northern Iraq, were held of little account.

Well the Israelis can do what they like, but at the very least we should be spared the sanctimony of the Christian Zionists, that somehow its all congruent with the interest of the Middle-Eastern Christians.

12 June 2014 at 15:55  
Blogger Ivan said...


After some sanguinary displays of extreme cruelty, involving the beheading and cannibalising of Shias, Kurds and others, the ISIS will be expelled by capable fighting forces from some combination of the Turks, Iranians, Kurds and Syrians. It is clear that the Iraqi forces are useless. The holy men JPII and Bishop Runcie were against the second Iraq war which removed the mangy Saddam, but Imans Bush and Blair decided otherwise.

12 June 2014 at 16:14  
Blogger David Hussell said...

To even begin to understand what is happening here and where it might be going, you have to understand the forces at work; those forces are essentially religious forces intermingled with culture and politics.

But if your world view is socialist or lefty/liberal, with not a clue regarding the religious elements, and the subtle differences and distinctions between the various strands, you will not be prepared intellectually or spiritually, by your education or world view, to grapple with any of this.

Which is exactly why the essentially secular establishment politicians from the Borrosos' to the Camerons' to the Obamas' or the Hollandes' are coming from, so they are but blind leaders, largely powerless in the face of the unfolding realties.

I hear the sound of chickens coming home to roost. Hopefully the secret services are recruiting the considerable numbers of extra people needed to "welcome" home our hundreds of jihadi trained "British" nationals fresh from the war zones.

12 June 2014 at 16:25  
Blogger Ivan said...

Sorry Bishop Runcie passed away in 2000, it should read Bishop Carey..,

12 June 2014 at 16:26  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

David Hussell

if your world view is socialist or lefty/liberal, with not a clue regarding the religious elements, and the subtle differences and distinctions between the various strands, you will not be prepared intellectually or spiritually, by your education or world view, to grapple with any of this.


This and the rest of it is the most ridiculous post.

Remember who took us in to Iraq?

George Bush and his Son well 'educated' Bible-belt Conservatives. Tony Blair is very intelligent, also well educated, a qualified barrister, a convert to Catholicism and never anything near approaching a recognised Socialist.

You must have a brain as big as a planet and an ego to match - I can't understand how come the world and its dog haven't beaten a path to your feet and crowned you master of the universe.

Oh wait a minute...

12 June 2014 at 18:04  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Hannah (14:12)
● Far from boycotting Israel, this article quotes a former White House adviser saying that the West invaded Iraq in 2003 specifically to protect Israel.
● If Christianity is flourishing in Israel, it’s despite the best efforts of the ‘Jesus is garbage’ movement.

12 June 2014 at 18:56  
Blogger Hannah said...

HI Johnny,

1) Boycott of Israel- see ridiculous BDS campaign & its acceptance on the far left.

2)Re Christianity in Israel. Show me the pictures from Israel where Christians are being slaughtered en masse, churches raised to the ground, have no protection under the law and are being forced to convert to Judaism, denied basic civil liberty & are fleeing their homes.

12 June 2014 at 19:04  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi Ars,

12 June 2014 14:37

Yes that's about right. Israel is the only country in the ME which fully protects minorities, including LGBTQ people. But then Israel is the only functioning liberal democracy in the middle east.

Hi Blowers,

Good to see U around. Thanks for the info, delivered in your usual direct prose.

12 June 2014 at 19:06  
Blogger John Malcolmson said...

David Hussell 13:41

"Surely now the western countries' public will finally see that they have been led by fools, totally out of their little depths, as the world becomes not less, but ever more religious."

Shouldn't that be "less Christian, but ever more Islamic"?

Johnny Rottenborough 13:48

"the outcome will be Christianity as a minority religion."

The outcome will be Christianity as an underground religion - I don't think the new Caliphates will have much tolerance for minority religions.

12 June 2014 at 19:16  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Dreadnaught @ 18.04


George Bush - "well educated" you say. Well OK, depends on what you mean by education I suppose.

But if I was looking for a well rounded, prescient leader of the western world, able to understand the complex play of power politics in the ME I would look elsewhere. Foreign affairs and understanding other cultures were not George's strong point were they, I understand. But perhaps you see things differently. Simply because he was a conservative and a Bible Belt Christian does not, of itself, make him good at foreign strategy, does it ?

Tony Blair. "very intelligent, also well educated, a qualified barrister and a convert to Catholicism" ...you say. Well be impressed with him, if you wish, but millions weren't, and I am one of those millions. Those who believe as fervently as he did, in a personal ability to apply the doctrine of liberal intervention with unerring accuracy are dangerous as political leaders, I suggest. Or perhaps he just followed George all too readily. Either way the results are truly terrible.

Moreover I don't think that there is anything remotely original in my suggestions, and you must know that surely.

12 June 2014 at 19:26  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Football time is here again. The opening ceremony has begun.

12 June 2014 at 19:27  
Blogger David Hussell said...

John Malcolmson @ 19.16

I see your point, but the basic political and legal structures are still very much the product of a Christian heritage environment.

12 June 2014 at 19:31  
Blogger John Malcolmson said...

David

Maybe - but I am talking about the freedom to worship the god or gods of one's choice.

12 June 2014 at 19:34  
Blogger David Hussell said...

John Malcolmsom @ 19.34

Perhaps I am being particularly slow witted this evening, but I don't understand. Could you enlarge on that? Are you talking about here or there?

12 June 2014 at 19:41  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Hannah (19:04)—There’s no doubt that Christians are treated better in Israel than in many of the surrounding countries. Nevertheless, they say they feel ‘neither safe nor protected’. Under those circumstances, flourishing tends to be put on hold.

12 June 2014 at 21:29  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hey Johnny,

Funny thing is Israel is the only area of the middle east where Christianity has grown as is growing. But, perhaps you'd like to see these Christians living in Gaza? Or if Israel is so bad, why not let them all come to the UK? I'm sure you'd be there welcoming them at the airport with a Union Jack?

12 June 2014 at 21:41  
Blogger Frater minor said...

Hi Hannah:

I never do quite get why the western elite seems to get fixated by Israel, demanding boycotts etc,yet is turning a blind eye to the atrocious slaughter of Christians in the middle east.

It really is quite simple: the whole BDS movement and anti-Israel theme is just the way to be anti-Semite in a politically correct way.

It is not allowed to say 'we hate Jews', but we are allowed to hate Israel.
It is not acceptable to boycott Jewish businesses or prevent Jewish students from enrolling in University, but it is perfectly OK to boycott Israeli businesses and Israeli universities.

Frater minor

12 June 2014 at 21:59  
Blogger bluedog said...

Fast moving events, Your Grace. Your communicant now reads that ISIS are calling for the slaughter of King Abdullah II of Jordan. No word of their plans for his lovely but unscarfed Queen, however one can imagine. It seems the pro-Western Abdullah is deemed to be an apostate despite his Hashemite descent from the prophet. No doubt Abdullah's welcome to the Pope would have aroused the blood-lust of the ISIS jihadis in righteous fervour.

Your communicant has always suspected that their Jordanian majesties would end up as permanent residents of Virginia Water; the day seems nearer.

Then there is Gaza.

Uncle Brian @ 19.27 reports, 'Football time is here again'. A statement which prompts two thoughts.

Firstly, even if Qatar is not stripped of its prize, will Qatar exist in 2022?

The second question relates to the attitude of the all-powerful EU in regard to the petty nationalism of the masses in support of certain teams. Don't the people know that in a post-nationalist and post democratic world these atavistic and chauvinist sentiments are potentially in breach of the Treaty of Lisbon?

Regrettably, the importance of football in relations between states cannot be ignored. It seems essential that the Baroness Ashton shall be mandated to establish an EU team with a revolving captaincy selected by qualified majority voting of the players on EU precedents. Notwithstanding this, France will provide the first captain, followed by Germany.

12 June 2014 at 23:03  
Blogger John Malcolmson said...

David Hussell 19:41

"Are you talking about here or there?"

I'm talking about everywhere.
I don't think anybody would dispute that, even before the latest developments in Iraq, Christians were being persecuted widely across the globe. And, as many contributors on here have opined, religious freedom is likely to be restricted even further as a result of the current situation. So much for "there".

As far as "here" is concerned, until recently it was always recognised that Christianity, being an evangelical religion, should be allowed its space in the public arena. But that idea is being challenged more and more, and the fact that (as you rightly say) our political and legal structures are based on our Christian heritage does not seem to have stopped the law evolving in a way which offers Christians less and less protection. You can argue, I suppose, that religion should be restricted to the private sphere, and that any public display of allegiance to a particular faith, even in the form of a cross hanging in a window and visible from the street, should be an offence under the Public Order Act. But this is tantamount to driving religious faith underground. Hooray, many people will say. But who is going to tell the Muslims in Tower Hamlets? And what is going to happen to them if they simply ignore the new restrictions?

12 June 2014 at 23:19  
Blogger Ivan said...


JR, while it is true that the neocons were making no bones in their rhetoric on pushing George Bush to war, their actual role was in fact minor or non-existent. GWB was determined to remove Saddam one way or another to show that the US was able to remake the Middle-East, following on his apparent success in Afghanistan. For Dick Cheney and Gen Powell, Saddam was unfinished business from the last war. At that time I followed the American line hook and sinker and thought it a good idea.

Thus when the UN team under Hans Blix concluded that Saddam had no weapons of Mass Destruction, it was greeted with dismay and derision as that removed the presented reason for the war.

Imans Bush and Blair in their quest to reform Islam ended up radicalising the Muslims even further. Not the least of their destructive activities, was that they had to rely on agents of influence in the Muslim community, who claimed to represent 'moderate' Islam. These generally, agents of the slow Jihad ending up raking in vast sums of money with soothing sophorifics. Their actual effect was to ensure that the mullahs in the West and their minions would have a permanent and expanding presence in the West. The civil liberties that so many men fought for, have all been eroded by the so-called war on Terror, with no effect on the radicals themselves.

As for the Israelis, apart from their fears about WMD they were quite content to leave Saddam alone, as he was a useful buffer against the Iranians in his weakened state. Already by 1996 after the murder of Mr Rabin, the Israelis had identified Iran as their greatest threat. The greatest and (most legitimate) fear that the Israelis have is not some non-existent WMDs, but rather to be caught up in an escalating war between the Sunnis and Shias, as a marker for who among are the better Muslims; with the ones destroying Israel carrying the day.

As for my fellow Christians and others who have suffered immeasurably in the past decade, I have to say that it is an irony of history that the most committed Christian President in recent times, GWB a devout Methodist, has set in train events that have caused them so much death and destruction.

13 June 2014 at 02:45  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast said...

Ars Hendrik

I noted your comment above about Saudi sitting within its borders - nothing could be further from the truth. Saudi has been playing a long-game of empire building, and has been quite happy to have its hand in a number of intelligence pies and quite happy to back destabilising forces in hostile Middle Eastern nations (most recently Syria), content in the knowledge that just as they couldn't move against the U.S. nor could the U.S. seriously move against them. A quiet game, but a deadly one.

Elements of ISIS were in fact originally bankrolled by the Saudis. Unfortunately, as with the West's funding of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan as a bulwark against the Soviets, the dog is increasingly looking like it will turn on the master.

The greatest peril is not the disintegration of post-WWI Western-imposed borders, but that Saudi and Jordan will be threatened. Neither of those things seems to be currently within the capabilities of the jihadists, for which we should remain continually grateful. Should Jordan ever fall, Israel will face its gravest night. Should Saudi ever fall, the rest of the world will eventually be forced into deciding whether it can even pursue military operations against a force that holds Mecca.

The ramifications are significant - but one shouldn't overestimate their probability, which remains remote, if albeit possible.

13 June 2014 at 03:00  
Blogger Ivan said...


One silver lining in all this, is that hopefully the realisation dawns on the masses that without committed men, all the equipment count for naught. This should be sufficient for the grunts in the US and UK armies to stand up to the diversity mongers and the homos.

13 June 2014 at 06:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

'Well Educated'

I'm no fan of either self of the agrandising gentlemen and I had a touch of irony in my intention that patently failed to appear.

The best their parents could afford would have been better; it was in reference to their early private schooling and nothing to do with intelligence in politics.

13 June 2014 at 08:06  
Blogger Manfarang said...

David Hussell
"But if your world view is socialist or lefty/liberal, with not a clue regarding the religious elements, and the subtle differences and distinctions between the various strands, you will not be prepared intellectually or spiritually, by your education or world view, to grapple with any of this."
Do you know what the word Ba'ath means or who helped to install the Whahhabis in Hijaz?
Maybe your university studies didn't include the Middle East.
I am glad to say Dr Talal Asad was more than able to clarify the distinctions you refer to.
Hannah
The coup was unfortunate but no foreign resident involves him or herself in Thai politics.
Ivan
The Arab Legion was probably the most successful military outfit in the Middle East.Attempts to recreate its ethos have largely failed. Life in the Gulf States is too easy to impose the necessary discipline that is required to any armed force but I wouldn't want to live in a world with effective arab armed forces.

13 June 2014 at 08:28  
Blogger David Hussell said...

John Malcolmson @ 19.41

Well that's obviously right.

And without religious freedom there is no real freedom at all. Because it is a few hundreds of years ago, and because religion does not any longer play a large part in most westerners lives, it is forgotten that opening up of the seaboard of North America, and therefore later the US itself, was driven by the initial quest for religious freedom. Indeed as most regulars to this site will know, the search for religious tolerance and freedom shaped our English and British political institutions, political life, law and so much else.

But all is now largely forgotten, even amongst the so called educated, in the headlong rush to encourage "freedom", in the narrow sense of hedonism and all that is associated with it, whilst losing the deeper spiritual freedoms. But the wheel will turn again some time as people tire of their physical excesses, although no one knows when.

13 June 2014 at 08:38  
Blogger David Hussell said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

13 June 2014 at 08:56  
Blogger David Hussell said...

I read an article a decade ago explaining that at one time the Foreign Office was well staffed with Arabists, trained in the language and well travelled in the whole region, with a deep knowledge of Islam and its offshoots. This knowledge base was available to politicians, constituting an excellent basis for foreign policy, diplomacy and other initiatives including commercial ones. The article further argued that cuts to the FO and the civil service generally, resulted in a severe downgrading of the Arabist skill base, and with the FO now largely focussed on the EU, seeing that almost to a civil servant, as our destiny, the rest of the globe, including the strategically vital ME was neglected.

So our politicians, like Blair who might have sought background advice, information and other briefings from the FO, were simply unable to access the high level knowledge and intelligence that used to be available. This deficit did nothing to reduce the risk of our blunderings within the area.
I can certainly vouch for the fact that the quality and breadth of the topmost civil servants has declined in my own fields. They simply don't have the stature that they once had, thanks both to Margaret Thatcher and the subsequent partial politicisation of the service at top levels, but have no specific knowledge of Arabists.

13 June 2014 at 08:56  
Blogger Len said...

I think you are right there David H a little or no understanding is a dangerous thing.We cannot transplant a Western system(whatever that is now?)into an Arab World.
The West has stepped in between the brawling sides Sunni and Shia and has now become a target for both sides.
The Sunnis seem to be 'people of the Book'(Koran) and the Shia see their ayatollahs as reflections of God on earth.(how very Catholic)and they see each other as 'heretics.This is without even considering the other Islamic sects.

The whole Arab world is a 'timebomb' waiting to go off and must be approached with a great deal of caution.


13 June 2014 at 09:21  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Len @ 09.21

I have always wondered how seemingly intelligent, educated people could believe, as a sort of political creed, that democracy, which evolved slowly as a product of a particular type of society, a Christian one, that experienced the Enlightenment and survived Communism, but adapted a sort of compromise between pure capitalism and socialism, as its social and economic model, could be transplanted into utterly dissimilar cultures and lands. It was optimism on steroids - naivety really. Yet it seems to have worked in a few places, like Japan and South Korea, but not in the Islamic world.
Jordan and Israel, not to mention Egypt, will be on full alert now no doubt. Strange alliances of necessity could yet occur, as has been mentioned already above.

13 June 2014 at 10:24  
Blogger Ivan said...

Lenin - hehe - even in this time of dire straits for the Christians of Iraq you can't pass up an opportunity to take a dig at Catholics?

13 June 2014 at 10:25  
Blogger Martin Marprelate said...

'And you will hear of wars and rumours of wars. See to it that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.'

Christians have read to the end of the book, and we know who wins.

13 June 2014 at 10:41  
Blogger Ivan said...


All that is needed for the protection of Christians is a force about 10,000 strong. Yet not one is forthcoming. And I simply don't understand why no military training was provided to the Christian males who could bear arms by the wonderful Americans, instead of wasting their time and effort on the regular army. The Kurds have closed their border to the fleeing Christians in gratitude for all the years of Western humanitarianism concern. About the only force concerned enough to do something for the Christians, are the Shias under Moqtada alSadr. Remember this, the next time concerned parties invoke the Pavlovian dance at the mention of Iran.


13 June 2014 at 10:42  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

David Hussell

A footnote to your point about the lack of Arabists in the present-day FCO. I once met in São Paulo a consular official whose previous posting had been in Saudi Arabia. I said something like, “How interesting! So you speak Arabic, do you?”

“Oh, no,” he answered. “Nobody who’s posted to the Middle East ever learns Arabic. If you do, you’ll never get a posting anywhere else. You’ll be stuck there for the rest of your life.”


13 June 2014 at 10:52  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

David H

"So our politicians, like Blair who might have sought background advice, information and other briefings from the FO, were simply unable to access the high level knowledge and intelligence that used to be available. This deficit did nothing to reduce the risk of our blunderings within the area. "

Dear Fellow

Ernst has not had the benefit of 'Arabists' and their 'skill sets' but even an old codger with a love of history like myself can see that no good can come from dropping democracy into a tribal area..It's called having a mere modicum of common sense and discerning thought for my fellow man/woman.

I was banging on at this thread during the Arab spring that no good could come from it, despite the optimism of siren voices of other communicants here.

The Islamic dominated countries in the ME are trapped in the 7th century and barbarism and no kind words or well meaning dialogue will pull them out of those hellholes they reside in by itself. We should have left well alone and now we have created a whirlwind for the innocent in that region.

Shame on us!!

Blofeld

Are'nt we in Blighty due another 'right on' sermon from the ME envoy for peace, the right dishonourable despicable Master Anthony Blair?

13 June 2014 at 10:53  
Blogger Manfarang said...

David Hussell
The main player in the Middle East now is America.The "Camel Corps"were part of a Middle East that changed.No more Political Agents and a new ruling generation in the Gulf countries that has much less regard for the British.

13 June 2014 at 10:58  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Blofeld
Such hellholes that hundreds of Brits have gone to Qatar and the Emirates to live and work in the last few years.Many of them can't speak highly enough of these two places.

13 June 2014 at 11:05  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Ivan (02:45)—Committed Christian in America spawns death and destruction. Committed Christians in Britain welcome alien peoples and cultures with open arms, with God only knows what consequences. Dr Johnny prescribes a tad less commitment and a touch more common sense.

13 June 2014 at 11:08  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Where's Mrs Proudie in this moment of crisis? Doing her bellydancing I suppose.

13 June 2014 at 11:12  
Blogger bluedog said...

Manfarang @ 08.28, '...but I wouldn't want to live in a world with effective arab armed forces.'

Sleep easy then. In an increasingly hi-tech military environment the semi-literate and semi-numerate are at an unsurmountable disadvantage. These days its quality not quantity, hence the survival of Israel, for example.

13 June 2014 at 11:25  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr Blofeld,

bluedog @ 12.19 said, 'Your communicant admits to being completely wrong in his optimism about the Arab Spring.'

Whereupon, Blofeld @ 10.53 says, 'I was banging on at this thread during the Arab spring that no good could come from it, despite the optimism of siren voices of other communicants here.'

Ever been called FIGJAM?

It starts right now.

13 June 2014 at 11:29  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

bluedog at 11:25

Why Arabs Lose Wars, by Norvell De Atkine: Still valid after all these years?

http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

13 June 2014 at 11:49  
Blogger Ivan said...


Johnny I see the wisdom in that, Christian compassion combined with stupidity, naivete and cant, are not the ingredients for a successful state. On the other hand don't blame Jesus for this. He did say that His kingdom was not of this world. He seemed to have been pretty satisfied with the ways of the Roman Empire when He was around.

13 June 2014 at 11:55  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Johnny, don't forget the UK churches, Catholic, Anglican, and free, opposed the 203 invadion. Yes and so did many other people.

The Christian credentials of Bush and Blair are to put it mildly questionable.

I challenge both wretches to offer themselves to ISIS in exchange for safe passage of Christians out of Mosul.

Having so comprehensivrly failed to save Muslims from themselves and each othet, it is now time to save ourselves from them. This will involve measures that will be incompatible with Shami Chakrabati's view of how the world should be.

13 June 2014 at 12:20  
Blogger bluedog said...

Indeed, Uncle Brian @ 11.49, still a total shower after all these years.

13 June 2014 at 12:30  
Blogger IanCad said...

Incidental to all his is the future of the colossal US embassy in Baghdad.

Islamists got a huge shot in the arm - out of all proportion - when the twin towers fell.

Surely they must be salivating at the prospect of destroying the symbol of American hubris that the embassy represents.

One hundred acres, six times larger than the UN Headquarters. Ten times the size of the Chinese Embassy.
The US just do not get the fact that other nations do not appreciate a foreign power placing itself front and centre in their lands.

Never mind the sect. Were I an Iraqi of any stripe it would please me no end to see a national insult come tumbling down.

What have we wrought?

13 June 2014 at 13:36  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

IanCad

So which do you expect to come first, Ian? The World Cup final on 13 July, a month from today, or the fall of Baghdad? I wonder whether the U.S. embassy personnel have started shredding all their files yet. They’ll want to make sure they get the job finished before ISIS moves in. No rerun of that Tehran business under Jimmy Carter, right?

13 June 2014 at 14:03  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Blue dog 11:25
It depends on the kind of warfare.

13 June 2014 at 14:17  
Blogger Ivan said...


Obama feckless as he is, is far more preferable to the madman McCain. This old crazy is going around claiming that the US was doing 'a heck of a job' in Iraq until Obama blew it. Putin attributed his insanity to something unpleasant in Vietnamese captivity.

13 June 2014 at 14:50  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Ivan

And to what does Putin, in his wisdom, ascribe the fecklessness of the other one?

13 June 2014 at 15:43  
Blogger IanCad said...

Uncle Brian @ 14:03

I'm guessing that, if it falls, it will fall fast.
Momentum counts. Those cutthroats are on a roll.
Fear, panic, confusion on one side.
Fanaticism, passion and conviction on the other.

The ball is in the Persian's court.
History should have taught us to be wary of the seed of Cyrus.
They've been down but they're still here.
80 million of them.

As to what the USA will do?
They are like women. Who knows?
I will add that I do subscribe to the notion of "American Exceptionalism."
Truly, they are the best and the worst.
I mean; How can the same country sire Paul Wolfowitz and George F. Kennan?

My bet would be that the World Cup will be going strong after Baghdad falls.

13 June 2014 at 16:52  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

It is reported in the Telegraph that Tehran has already dispatched two battalions of its elite Revolutionary Guards to Baghdad to help defend the Maliki government from a jihadist takeover.
Iranian Revolutionary Guards have already done a similar job to prop up the Syrian President.

13 June 2014 at 17:57  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Jay Bee

So the outlook for Baghdad is to be ruled by either ISIS or the Revolutionary Guards? In the U.S. embassy they'll be running the shredders 24/7 by now.

13 June 2014 at 18:27  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

Uncle Brian@18:27

Far too early to say. Iran is now denying the reports that their boots are already on the ground. It is probably better to look at the sects involved in this rather than the nationalities. Who rules the capital depends on the effectiveness of Shia resistance against Sunni Jihadis. Which side, if any, the rest of the Sunni's take is another imponderable.

The US has a mighty impressive embassy complex in Baghdad. Its loss would be more than a little embarrassing. Meanwhile Obama is dithering and wriggling. One would think that the possibility of a black flag flying over the embassy instead of old glory might concentrate his mind. But we don't really know what he stands for or what he will not stand for.

13 June 2014 at 19:53  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Changing the subject for a moment, if I may, Your Grace, I haven't seen a Dutch team like this one for many years. They're beating Spain 5-1 with five minutes still to go. The Clockwork Orange is back!

13 June 2014 at 21:43  
Blogger Ivan said...


Uncle Brian,

Obama had from his 2008 campaign proclaimed that Iraq was the 'wrong war', while the Afghan one was alright. He has not been misleading anyone about his intentions, he truly intended to withdraw after providing the armed infrastructure to the Iraqis. What after all is the ISIS? A band of marauders claiming to be some kind of divine wind. To handle them you need the ranger type of soldiers to go in eliminate them. They all sound very impressive and fearsome until they meet their match. Just like the Communists in Malaya, the Cendero Luminoso n Peru and the Tamil Tigers in Ceylon. Now how does this become a US responsibility when the Iraqi Army on paper can call on a few hundred thousand men?

Obama remains a feckless dolt since among others, he cannot accept that whatever solution he comes up will have to involve Iran and Syria, senior and honourary members of GWB's Axis of Evil. But this means riding roughshod over the Israeli firsters in Congress, who are already claiming that if only both of them were bombed away, the solution would be apparent.

The ISIS was apparently operating with impunity in Mosul for months, shaking down shopkeepers and dealing punishment in the same way as the IRA years ago. Pretty standard MO for outfits like them. And they could move without let or hindrance into Syria. Why were the US and other Western agencies caught flat-footed? After all these same fellows could assure us with pinpoint accuracy that 1435.3711 people died in the chemical attack on Ghoutta. Its obvious that they were looking the other way, as these are the maniac McCain's 'freedom fighters'.

I have not been able to contact Mr Putin to ascertain his views on Obama's fecklessness, but I surmise that he will attribute it to the nancy boys.

14 June 2014 at 03:03  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Ivan :"Obama had from his 2008 campaign proclaimed that Iraq was the 'wrong war', while the Afghan one was alright."

In principle, he was right too ... though in practice no-one wins a war in Afghanistan.

14 June 2014 at 06:35  
Blogger Ivan said...



If the aim of the Afghan war were to destroy the alQueda there, the US had succeeded brilliantly in about forty days. But George Bush was inveigled by those who believed (possibly just himself) that Muslim Pops (Moms do not count), all wanted the same thing as other Moms and Pops into going on an orgy of nation-building in Afghanistan. This time the Americans were not going to leave them on lurch as in 1988 after the Soviets were forced out. They had a true friend in the US. Thus you had the spectacle of Marines and SAS men, going around with gunny sacks of cement and grain. What were the Afghan men doing? No doubt propositioning some good looking soldiers.

More seriously the premise of the entire nation-building exercise was flawed, since their ally Pakistan and its backer the insidious House of Saud, were undermining them at every turn, through the ISI and their Pathan connections. God only knows how many billions these two bilked off the Americans, but they are Muslims and thus cannot be expected to keep accounts. Bush realised this some time into 2006/7 which is why he had his silly grin on all the time. Obama then had to shoot his mouth off about good and bad wars, and succeeded in paying off the Pakistanis a few billions more.

Well I just hope that the Afghans who want an education and get on with their lives, success for all the sacrifices made.

14 June 2014 at 08:50  
Blogger Ivan said...


IanCad @1652, ask too how the crazy coot McCain is allowed in the Senate, instead of being detained in a facility for the criminally insane. Mr Wolfowitz at least has the excuse that he has (or had) a Muslim girlfriend and was at one time Ambassador to Indonesia, the largely mild, and syncretic Muslim country.

14 June 2014 at 09:06  
Blogger Len said...

T Blair has spoken regarding intervention in Iraq....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27852832

15 June 2014 at 17:34  
Blogger IanCad said...

Thanks for the link Len.

Slippery, slippery, slippery.

15 June 2014 at 19:22  
Blogger Ivan said...

Tone deaf Blair is well on his way to join McCain at the asylum.

16 June 2014 at 03:04  
Blogger Ivan said...


OK no worries, Linsey Graham has already done the translation into WWII terms that the Americans need before they can act. Iran is to the USSR, as the ISIS\ISIL is to the Nazis. Time to dispatch the only adult at the State Dept., William Burns, to Iran. As to talking to the Russians, heir to the nation that actually fought the Nazis, about the Ukraine, we'll get to that after a few hundred thousand bodies.

IanCad, you asked what happened to George Kennan's country, I think there is a lesson here somewhere.

16 June 2014 at 03:39  
Blogger Ivan said...


The silver-tongued Blair was to be seen at all hours pushing for the war, Bush on the other hand could not string two sentences together without his consulting his notes. Why doesn't this man hang his head in shame?

16 June 2014 at 05:55  

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