Sunday, July 27, 2014

Christianity in Iraq – "the end is very near"


"Things are so desperate, our people are disappearing," says Canon Andrew White, the courageous Vicar of Baghdad.

"We have had people massacred, their heads chopped off.

"Are we seeing the end of Christianity? We are committed come what may, we will keep going to the end, but it looks as though the end could be very near.

"The Christians are in grave danger. There are literally Christians living in the desert and on the street. They have nowhere to go.

"We do not want Britain to forget us. We - and I'm saying 'we' talking like an Iraqi Christian - have always been with the British because they have already been with us. Individual churches, individual Christians in Britain, have been a bigger help than anybody around the world."

But as the Sunni-Wahhabi-Salfist Jihadists of the Islamic State carry on cleansing with impunity, the United States says nothing; the European Union says nothing; and the United Kingdom does nothing. Millions of Christians across the Arab-Muslim world are being systematically persecuted, tortured, beheaded or exiled into the desert, and the leaders of the Western world don't even lift a finger in prayer.

Or perhaps they do pray, but as their words fly up, their thoughts remain below. And words without thoughts never to heaven go.

"We do not want Britain to forget us," is the plea of Canon White. And yet we have. Or most of us have. Or HM Government has. Christians are the world's most persecuted people, and still British foreign policy fails to reflect the appalling reality or agitate for religious freedom or make aid contingent on adherence to Article 18.
..the world's Christians fall through the cracks of the left-right divide – they are too religious for liberals and too foreign for conservatives. In the UK, it is socially respectable among the secular elite to regard Christianity as weird and permissible to bully its followers a little. This produces the surreal political reality in which President Obama visits Saudi Arabia and "does not get the time" to raise the suppression of Christianity in the oil-rich nation; and in which Prime Minister Cameron gets a broadside from illiberal secularists for the historically unquestionable assertion that Britain's culture is formed by Christian values.
And so "the end could be very near" for Christianity in Iraq, where the Chaldean and Assyrian churches have worshipped since the earliest centuries of the Christian era. Without Western intervention, the end will surely come. Christ built His church, and the gates of ISIS have prevailed against it.

But only because we stood by, watched, and did nothing.

55 Comments:

Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 July 2014 at 09:37  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

If Muslims can get away with it in Iraq and elsewhere they will eventually demand to get away with it where they dominate.

There are no man made borders or nations in Allah's world -

"Outstandingly Bodacious, Dudes!"

27 July 2014 at 09:42  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

British foreign policy fails to reflect the appalling reality

Foreign policy bows to domestic policy: the presence in Britain of several million Muslims whose devotion the authorities fear and whose votes the politicians court. If keeping the peace and clinging to power mean the extinction of Christianity, at home as much as abroad, so be it. I’d like to think that Christians who have championed immigration and multiculturalism are now beginning to reflect on the appalling reality they have helped bring about.

27 July 2014 at 11:20  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Johnny
Christianity is multi-cultural-

In Christ there is no East or West,
in him no South or North,
but one great fellowship of love
throughout the whole wide earth.

In him shall true hearts everywhere
their high communion find,
his service is the golden cord
close-binding all mankind.

Join hands, disciples of the faith,
whate'er your race may be!
Who serves my Father as a son
is surely kin to me.

In Christ now meet both East and West,
in him meet South and North,
all Christly souls are one in him,
throughout the whole wide earth.

27 July 2014 at 11:50  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

His Grace. “...But only because we stood by, watched, and did nothing. “

Not entirely fair. Our Creator equally has done nothing, but that’s him all over.

Anyway, what would doing something entail ? You can appreciate the race of people involved here. The only way to stop them is to kill some of them, and that isn’t going to happen. Better to let them get on with it, and then deal with what the decay results in, which looks to be a continuingly unstable state, fracturing at the sides, inhabited by the barking mad.

By the way, if you have nothing left but prayer, you do indeed have nothing left...

27 July 2014 at 12:05  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, why are the pacifists so quiet?

You know who you are.

27 July 2014 at 12:07  
Blogger Nick said...

Sadly, there are many in the West who hate God and who therefore hate his followers and feel no pity for their suffering. The UK has become like a plant pulled out of the ground from it's roots. It denies and hates it's Christian heritage and thinks it can survive without any spiritual foundation. Thus the dulled consciences when it comes to Iraq.

Just made another donation to FRRME. It feels like the least I can do. I would encourage believers to pray too. God heard our prayers over Meriam Ibrahim, so let's not give up.

27 July 2014 at 12:12  
Blogger IanCad said...

OK! To recap:

That wonderful Arab Spring.

Oh Goody! A dictator overthrown in Tunisia.

Happened too quickly to offer support there.

Then came Libya.
Let's get behind those charming young men who want to overthrow Gaddafi. Came within a whisker of getting involved there.

Egypt? Bye Bye Mubarak, hello the military.

Syria:
Must get that dreadful Assad out. Have to support the rebels; freedom loving democrats that they are.
It would be the greatest fun though, to send over the RAF.
Too bad public opinion was so much against it.

Now they're slaughtering the Christians.

Mustn't get involved with that. Can't interfere with a country's sovereignty.

During the Spanish Civil War an International Brigade was formed.
Men whose sympathies were expessed by action went over by the thousands.

ISIS is an army of volunteers.

Nothing similar is on the horizon to offer succour to our Christian brothers.

Why not?

O, I see. Of Course!

The Iranians will eventually have to take care of it.
No need for us to get invoved.

27 July 2014 at 12:21  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

No politician wants to be accused of Islamophobia. Ignore the problem and it will go away.

27 July 2014 at 12:44  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Meanwhile in the United States, the World Council of Churches comes down firmly on the side of the enemies of Christianity.

Link:
http://www.terrasanta.net/tsx/articolo.jsp?wi_number=6742&wi_codseq= &language=en

27 July 2014 at 13:13  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Uncle Brian @ 13:13

The World Council of Churches is capable of firmness?

27 July 2014 at 13:21  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Christianity swells and grows in many parts of Africa and China is on course, at present trends, to become the country with the greatest number of Christians. In the west it withers and in the ME it is cruelly persecuted; yet our Governments' focus is deliberately elsewhere, whilst the appalling plight of millions of Christians is a matter of cruel indifference. How utterly shameful !

Oh how debased, cruel, callous and inhuman our "main" political parties have become as the nation worships itself, often in the guise of false pretend "convenient" religion, bossy intolerant illiberal secularism, or the strains of atheism and Humanism which are indifferent to true human flourishing, freedom and happiness. To think that this was the country that stamped out the cross-Atlantic slave trade, spending treasure and blood, on the RN sealing the ports of West Africa from the slavers. Yet here facing a clear human tragedy of holocaust proportions, we remain mute. The EU and the US are also shamefully silent on these matters of strategic, global-cultural and historic significance. Thank God for the few Churchmen, and that fine man Lord Sacks, who speak out for the persecuted Christians of Iraq and the ME. But the "lead" politicians, with their skewed morality, ignore them.

How fallen is Albion, onetime defender of basic human freedoms, and how cursed this nation must surely become, for God's justice to be expressed, as it surely will, in his own time. Let all who still remember, fear and love God, pray that they and theirs are spared from that judgement, whose hour is as ever unknown. May God have mercy on this nation' callous indifference and rebellion against Him.

27 July 2014 at 13:28  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

The Explorer said...

Uncle Brian @ 13:13

The World Council of Churches is capable of firmness?

27 July 2014 13:21


Thank you, Explorer, for pointing out my mistake. My earlier comment should have read:

Meanwhile in the United States, the World Council of Churches comes down muddle-headedly on the side of the enemies of Christianity.

27 July 2014 at 13:45  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

This is a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing.

In contrast, there's an election due here within 12 months, so let's keep our eyes on the ball. Remember, Muslims have votes (including lots and lots of postal votes.)

27 July 2014 at 13:49  
Blogger John Thomas said...

The government, and Obama, would do an awful lot, awfully quickly, if it might be that one or two gay people were being given a bad time. Stephen Fry would demand it, Peter Tatchell too - my goodness, you see some action! But ... Christians ...

27 July 2014 at 14:49  
Blogger Manfarang said...

seanrobsville
"This is a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
But we do know something of Nestorius.

27 July 2014 at 14:51  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Manfarang (11:50)—William Arthur Dunkerley’s flight of fancy is of its time. He had the good fortune to live in an homogeneous Christian land and his ‘great fellowship of love’ was coloured imperial pink. It must have seemed to him that Christianity would be top dog for ever.

27 July 2014 at 15:19  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Your Grace,
This awful tragedy continues as you so rightly report it.
I doubt if there is a genuine Born Again Christian in the Government so why should they risk upsetting the other religions in the UK by supporting Christians in the Middle East.

Despite there assertions that this is a Christian country, Multiculturalism demands that you don't take sides.

What are we to do additional to prayer? We could write to the PM? Fat lot of good that would do.

How about a new crusade? We could send all those new Noble Barons to fight for the cause (one way of reducing the numbers of the upper house). Instead of the Islamic youth of this country going on their Jihad, our Christian youth can learn what it's like to fight a good fight for the cause of truth and civilisation. Sure as sure, once these Jihadists have secured their purpose over there, they will be at our borders again taking command through violence.

27 July 2014 at 15:39  
Blogger Jesuestomihi said...

Shall a country or societies so indifferent to the suffering of these Christians not suffer? God is wrathfull. Hinei lo yanum- I wouldn't poke my finger in the eye of God- If I were you

27 July 2014 at 16:10  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Shadrach
Have you any first hand experience of an Arab military force?

27 July 2014 at 16:10  
Blogger Jesuestomihi said...

Shall a country or societies so indifferent to the suffering of these Christians not suffer? God is wrathfull. Hinei lo yanum- I wouldn't poke my finger in the eye of God- If I were you

27 July 2014 at 16:10  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Jesuestomihi

Hinei lo yanum

Translation, please? Not Hebrew, I think? Arabic, perhaps?

27 July 2014 at 16:33  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Manfrag @16:10

It was said with more than a tinge of Irony. I would not want to send our young people there. Even though we saw how the Egyptians ran in 1967. We also saw how the Iraqis failed to put up a straight fight in 1990/1 and 2003.

They have learnt that a war of attrition has greater effect on the moral of the home country.

They are not unbeatable however if one has a stomach for a fight.

27 July 2014 at 16:36  
Blogger Shadrach said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 July 2014 at 16:36  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Why doesn't someone in the upper echelons of any of the denominations of Christianity organise a march in the centre of London. They ought to be able to rustle up several million attendees, I'd have thought, especially if a letter was read out in the Roman Catholic churches in that manner they seem to favour. Heck, if the bloodsports people can rustle up a massive march against a fox-hunting ban then surely our collective Christians could top that. I'd even attend myself.

27 July 2014 at 16:36  
Blogger Shadrach said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 July 2014 at 16:45  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Blogger Shadrach said...
Well said DanJo. But not right at the moment. In the early 1990's there were regular 'March for Jesus' which Graham Kendrick was involved with and they attracted many thousands. Now however, we can hardly get a couple of hundred to protest outside Westminster. We are all 'closet' Christians and afraid to 'come out' and be counted, to use terms normally used by others.

Wimps are what we are in the eyes of Jesus. We must be bolder if we want to see the blessing of God in our lives and our country.

27 July 2014 at 16:46  
Blogger Clive Mitchell said...

Apart from the ritual criticism of the government, what do people think should be done? Unilateral action by the UK Govt since Suez has been impossible. So what are the alternatives?

27 July 2014 at 16:47  
Blogger IanCad said...

Wonderful comment David Hussell @13:28.

How we have fallen!
How much lower can we go?

27 July 2014 at 16:50  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

DanJo at 16:36

The Catholic hierarchy, by and large, has a very clear view of what is needed to put an end to the bloodshed in the Middle East. The starting point is that it’s all Israel’s fault. To suggest otherwise would be to run the unthinkable risk of looking unfashionable and out of touch.

27 July 2014 at 16:59  
Blogger IanCad said...

"Heck, if the bloodsports people can rustle up a massive march against a fox-hunting ban then surely our collective Christians could top that. I'd even attend myself."

So wrote DanJO and has succeeded in making me very uncomfortable.

27 July 2014 at 17:08  
Blogger Esther Shabo said...

Uncle Brian

27 July 2014 16:33


Hineh lo yanum is from Psalm Chapter 121, either verse 4 or 5, depending on which Bible you are reading. Does this help?

27 July 2014 at 17:24  
Blogger David Hussell said...

DanJ0 @ 16.36

I agree, and thank you for your comments.

Silence never works well in any society especially a democracy.

27 July 2014 at 17:53  
Blogger David Hussell said...

IanCad @ 16.50

Thank you. I was and am still feeling angry about their suffering, and it takes a lot to get me angry. So I have just been for a soothing walk with my wife.

For us, and the EU and the US, just to sit and purposefully ignore it is unspeakable, morally bankrupt, and there will be a reckoning I am sure. I believe I'm right in saying that Lord Sacks compared to the Jewish holocaust, and a very senior rabbi of his standing and wisdom would not say that lightly. Heaven must be awash with the bitter tears of the Heavenly Host.

27 July 2014 at 18:07  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Uncle Brian

"The Catholic hierarchy, by and large, has a very clear view of what is needed to put an end to the bloodshed in the Middle East. The starting point is that it’s all Israel’s fault."

Where is the evidence for this assertion?

There was an event organised by Eastern-rite Church leaders in London yesterday outside the Houses of Parliament at 12 noon. Supporters unable to attend the demonstration were asked to "join us in prayer" at 12 noon by saying the Angelus prayer to the Virgin Mary for all people suffering in the Middle East.

The Eastern Iraqi churches led by the Syrian Orthodox Archbishop Toma Dawood, Syrian Catholic Monsignor Nizar Semaan, Chaldean Catholic Father Nadheer, Ancient Church of the East Corepiscopos (Khoury) Fr Dr Khoshaba, Eastern Assyrian Father Tony and others joined forces to demonstrate.

So far Happy Jack can find no media reports on this. Instead, there is wide coverage of the reported thousands who rallied in Parliament Square, London, in protest against Israel's assault on Gaza and British arms sales to Israel.

27 July 2014 at 18:18  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

If there was a massive demonstration in London then I wonder how the media would report it? It'd probably mention the Crusades or something.

27 July 2014 at 18:32  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Happy Jack @ 18.18

Thank you for that information. I would certainly join any Christian march, or indeed any march organised by responsible people with appropriate motives.

The point you report regarding the way that the MS media create the public opinion, shaping it in fact, exemplifies the sheer outright corruption and moral bankruptcy of the vast majority of the western media. Yes of course the Gaza sufferings are most significant but the full picture there, the context, cause and effect if you like, putting it somewhat simplistically, is never brought out clearly, whilst even greater sufferings elsewhere are purposefully ignored.
The media is not fit for purpose. It has set itself up as judge and jury of world affairs. By what authority, moral or political, is it doing that ? A plague on their houses, I say. May God be their judge.

27 July 2014 at 18:32  
Blogger Sister Julian said...

Yet again our Heavenly Father's heart must be broken as He watches what is happening to his chosen people and those who are His adopted children, the Christians. To read what is happening in the ME is truly dreadful. But then to hear about China and some of the African and South American countries brings a glimmer of hope. Maybe countries such as the UK and USA have fallen so far from grace that judgement will fall on those nations and others will be adopted and the faith will grow and flourish elsewhere. We can have only ourselves to blame. But we must not fear as the faithful will be take to glory although we may have to suffer as Paul, Peter and the other saints down the ages suffered for their faith - and as B&B owners, bakers et al are suffering now. My hope and prayer is that if trouble comes my way because of my faith, that I will be strong enough to stand, clad in the armour of Christ. And finally, prayer should never be the last resort, it should be the first resort and continued without ceasing.

27 July 2014 at 18:55  
Blogger Esther Shabo said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

27 July 2014 at 19:17  
Blogger Esther Shabo said...

In respect of the subject of this post, it is appalling that this situation has happened. Personally I can only see the way in which these Christians can be saved is via military intervention.

Alas the only power capable of leading such an assault, the USA, does not want to do so. Probably a mixture of exhaustion via the war on terror, lack of any allies to help, a public opinion that simply does not want to be involved in foreign wars & the inertia of the Obama administration. So these poor, defenceless people will be left to their fate.

The other thing that galls me is that Israel defends herself against an ISIS like organisation called Hamas and hundreds of thousands of people protest in London, Paris, Berlin & in France turns into pogroms.

But then there is not a whiff of protest against what is happening to Christians or the pogroms against the Jews of France. Yet if Israel is further weakened she will have an ISIS at her throats even more & we shall suffer the same fate as Iraqi Christians . It is appalling. Why do people object to Israeli Jews defending themselves? Jews will be looking at Iraq and thinking this 'won't be us, not again'.

I only hope that somehow, possibly via a miracle or the coming of Messiah, that the Iraqi Christians might be saved from the slaughter.

As it now, the Christians of the middle east will be slowly ethnically cleansed, Israel will continue to be demonised. And ISIS will grow stronger.

Not good.

PS- if there was an intervention to save the Christians from being slaughtered and ISIS started putting Christians in the line of fire, £10 says that the UN would start taking interest & cry 'war crime' against those trying to save the Christians??

27 July 2014 at 19:23  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Esther Shabo

Behold, he shall neither slumber nor sleep
Hineh lo yanum velo yishan

Without your help I would never have puzzled it out.

Thanks!
Brian

27 July 2014 at 19:33  
Blogger Esther Shabo said...

Uncle Brian,

You are quite welcome :)

27 July 2014 at 22:06  
Blogger bluedog said...

It's curious, is it not, Your Grace, how we never see a country described as the 'Christian Kingdom/Republic of...'. For a nation to self-describe in such terms would be to invite outraged cat-calls of 'bigot' and 'racist' from the all-powerful 'international community'. There was a time when the King of France was described on Papal authority as 'His Most Christian Majesty', a most unprogressive title mercifully dispensed with during the Revolution. Indeed,one can only express surprise that our own Queen is still allowed to be the Supreme Governor of a Christian church.

There are of course, endless inconsequential Islamic Republics, Kingdoms and Emirates, mostly religiously exclusive and intolerant, if not deeply misogynistic and frequently mendicant too. Most of them lauded by the Left for their heroic opposition to Anglo-Zionist Imperialism.

When reads of the attack by a Muslim mob on a Paris synagogue it is possible to feel that a turning point has been reached. How long before a Muslim mob dares to attack Notre Dame or Westminster Abbey to protest against some imagined insult to Allah?

Your communicant predicts that a popular awakening is at hand. As usual the political class will follow at a comfortable distance; there is no greater threat than a challenge to ones fixed ideas. But the vox pop will mobilise and their cries become an overwhelming clamour. The Christians will become a greater embarrassment than the Eurosceptics and as yet, the Christian vote will swamp the Muslim vote. That is the danger to the settled order that lies ahead in 2015.

27 July 2014 at 22:17  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Clive Mitchell @ 16.47

Your question is a fair and practical one. However apart from our resident, retired military American gentlemen, Carl, none of your usual suspects on this blog are militarily qualified, and therefore able to answer that question - point one.
And yes, if useful protective actions are to be taken, in respect of these persecuted people, it surely must be a military option that is needed, do you not agree ? That's point two.
But this is the key point, morally. For we see no evidence whatsoever, that the politicians have even sought advice regarding whether, merely whether, there are any realistic military actions. The only sound I hear is of a deafening callous indifference, to a situation directly flowing from the regime change that they themselves, the US and the UK, and the west broadly, put into motion, without a thought for the consequences or how one, post-conquest, realistically holds it all together, after their "glorious victory". Indeed not even a speech, not even the faintest squeak of protest is heard from our political elite, as the innocent of Mosul are raped, beheaded or crucified even ?
If at least, the politicians sought to ameliorate the situation, thereby at least acknowledging some measure of moral responsibility, but were advised that relief was impossible, militarily, that would be one moral position; but the one that they do now occupy, of total studied disinterest, is an altogether, far lower moral station. Indeed they occupy it to their eternal shame.
So in summary, no I cannot say realistically what could or should be done, in practical terms, but I want to see my country's leaders, and those of the US and other leading nations, exploring whether there is a protective, military possibility ? And if that is not feasible, can they not find economic, or political, or moral levers for exerting pressure on these people ?
Or is their guilt and embarrassment so great and pressing, that their reaction is to pretend that nothing is happening ? Their silence will only hasten the day before we, ourselves will have to fight them. That's my opinion., albeit unqualified militarily. Do you have a view Clive Mitchell ?

27 July 2014 at 22:18  
Blogger Londoner Health said...

yep. Secret courts defy logic and reason. Let's start with home, where charity begins. Let's have a landmark ruling to open those courts and get those poor little disabled kids back home and rape-free. Shall we? I think so. It's time.

27 July 2014 at 23:13  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

David Hussell,

The only power on earth which could muster the army required to defeat ISIS AND occupy their territory to protect the Christian population is NATO, and the vast bulk of that force would have to be provided by the United States. Defeating ISIS in the field would be the (relatively) easy bit; the difficult bit would be, as in Iraq previously and Afghanistan, holding the territory and pacifying it in the teeth of a permanent guerrilla insurgency which also has the home advantage. Off the top of my head, I can think of no example in history where an occupying army has ultimately prevailed in such a scenario; the sheer effusion of blood and treasure wears down the occupiers faster than the guerrillas. NATO would be required to occupy a huge swathe of the Middle East, crossing Syria and Iraq; this is an area filled with battle-hardened insurgent and hostile forces who possess a bewildering array of military hardware. These forces do not wear uniforms and fight in formation, so the occupiers would face a massive multi-dimensional conflict against an enemy who could not even be identified, and who changed allegiance at the drop of a hat.

If the Western military powers have no stomach for such a scenario, it is with very good reason.

27 July 2014 at 23:51  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Darter

Jack agrees with the futility of trying to interfere further in the Islamic civil war that is coming - until necessary for the interests of the West. Regrettably, it appears inevitable that Christianity is going to be crushed out of existence in the middle east.

However, where is the protest? The political 'noise' in the face of this holocaust? The outrage? Do our governments care? There could be some physical protection of the Christian minority in the Middle East against ISIS and its like - targeted air reprisals against ISIS, perhaps. At the very least the West should be ensuring the safe exodus of Christians and other faith groups out of the region.

28 July 2014 at 00:20  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Addendum:

The force which has proved itself best able to stand up to ISIS, and which has shown itself religiously sane and tolerant of minorities, is the Kurdish Peshmerga. Rather than intervene directly, the Western powers would do much better to back an independent Kurdish state in Northern Iraq and arm the Peshmerga.

In Syria, the tragic fact is that the only force capable of resisting the Islamists is that of the Assad regime, whilst in the South of Iraq fighting ISIS is going to depend upon Iran, to whom ISIS is as much of an enemy as it is to us. Iran's persecution of Christians has been highlighted on this blog, but Iran holds out the possibility of improvement and engagement, whilst ISIS advances nothing but insane extremism. The West working with Iran directly may be difficult to swallow, but it is well worth considering; Stalin's Russia was also the lesser of two evils.

28 July 2014 at 00:30  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Happy Jack,

Don't be too taken in by the manufacturer's rhetoric of surgical weapons; yes, a cruise missile can be directed into a target with precision measured in centimetres, but that precision is only as good as the intelligence which knows exactly what is around the target. Laser guided bombs are extremely accurate, but you still need someone to laser-highlight the correct target. ISIS, like Hamas (although Hamas would fight ISIS too; this United Islamist claim is crap), operates in civilian areas, and any air strikes against ISIS targets would result in more collateral damage than actual ISIS casualties. Ultimately, the US Air Force dropping bombs on ISIS would just give them more of a reason to scream 'crusade' and step up persecution, but would have no effect whatsoever in protecting Christians on the ground; only large-scale deployment of troops could do that - all the technology in the world doesn't alter the fact that boots on the ground make the real difference.

28 July 2014 at 00:42  
Blogger Darter Noster said...

Happy Jack,

With regards to your point about an Islamic civil war:

The European religious conflicts took centuries, and an enormous effusion of blood, before we reached the point we have today, and even today we have not completely resolved those conflicts, though we do much better now than we did in the 16th/17th centuries.

If various strands of Islam cannot resolve their differences peacefully, and if what it takes to bring about an Islamic enlightenment, as it did in Europe, is decades of horrendous conflict, then there really is very little we outsiders can do about it. Of course we should do everything we can to encourage peace, and to help the victims of conflict, but ultimately we cannot force them to live together in harmony and if they are determined to fight out their religious differences in the way we Western Europeans once did, then I don't see how we can stop them.

28 July 2014 at 01:03  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Darter
All this is a result of military intervention in the first place.

28 July 2014 at 03:13  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Well it appears that this blog does have access to a number prepared to comment upon the options for military involvement in Iraq, but not being a military expert I shall l leave it to them. Where's Carl when we need him ?

My outrage is primarily because of two things. Firstly despite our culpability, no one in the western leadership is even showing concerns for the current massacres, whilst seeking to discover whether anything practical can be achieved by military or other means. Secondly no one is attempting even a limited rescue operation, or a protection whilst they retreat to Kurdistan operation, the latter seeming a more realistic one to me because of the sheer numbers of refugees involved.

I will certainly be looking for the west to give practical assistance to the Kurds, who are proving themselves to be a centre of sanity and steely resolve in an area of debased.

So many in the west will look down their secular and "liberal" noses with disdain at the inferior, misguided religious types of the ME tearing themselves to pieces, whilst being totally unaware of how misinformed, biased and slanted are in fact their own world views. Thanks to our hopeless media most of the western populations have very little idea or perspective on what is really happening and the underlying causes let alone where the blame really lies.

What a bloody mess mankind creates !








28 July 2014 at 08:57  
Blogger Clive Mitchell said...

David Hussel

As to what military discussions have taken place I don't know. Like yourself I suspect very little or none. The truth is without the USA we don't have the heavy lifting to get sufficient personnel and kit in. What we do have is working full time removing kit from Afganistan.

There is a moral imperative to do what is possible. Sadly we have sunk so low what this country can do on its own us restricted to Trooping the Colours for the Queen.

28 July 2014 at 12:20  
Blogger Clive Mitchell said...

Apologies for the mis-spell

28 July 2014 at 12:27  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

The truth is there isn't much we can do. Our 2003 intervention made it much worse, as did our support for the 'Arab Spring' including NATO air support on the rebel side in Libya. Which is now a failed state with the capital on fire. Thanks to us.

Agree with Jack we should try to offer safe haven to Mosul's Christian refugees. Also agree with DanJo we need to recognise the malignant nature of Islam, recognise we're in a hole and stop digging-i.e. 100% stop of Muslim immigration including for msrriage.

But we won't, will we?

Haven't read anything yet to overturn my hypothesis that the west is on its final descent due to our rejection of Christ. Like frogs hypnotised by snakes.

Remember Eli's wicked sons Hophni and Phineas of whom it is written 'But they did not listen, for it was the will of the LORD to slay them...'

28 July 2014 at 17:29  

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