Sunday, July 20, 2014

Stop the War Coalition urges war against Israel


The Stop the War Coalition was established in aftermath of 9/11, calling for an end to what George W Bush termed the "War on Terror". According to the organisation's Aims and Constitution, their principal objective is "very simple":
..to stop the war currently declared by the United States and its allies against 'terrorism'. We condemn the attacks on New York and we feel the greatest compassion for those who lost their life on 11th September 2001. But any war will simply add to the numbers of innocent dead, cause untold suffering, political and economic instability on a global scale, increase racism and result in attacks on civil liberties. The aims of the campaign would be best expressed in the name Stop the War Coalition.
You would think, given their righteous moral objective and benevolent humanitarian quest for peace, that this coalition might be broad, inclusive and non-partisan. It might even include a few Conservatives, perhaps those who opposed Tony Blair's decision to invade Iraq. Not at all:
We call on all peace activists and organisations, trade unionists, campaigners and labour movement organisations to join with us in building a mass movement that can stop the drive to war.
Despite being dead, their President is still named as Tony Benn. When you look at the list of Vice-Presidents - including George Galloway, Tariq Ali, Kamal Majid, Caroline Lucas - it ought to come as no surprise that the Stop the War Coalition's strategy for world peace includes war against Israel.

The headline is profoundly shocking. You have to delve into the article to discover precisely what they're calling for - a "legitimacy war" involving "the mobilization of a movement from below, combining popular resistance with global solidarity" (ie boycott, divestment, and sanctions [BDS]). But few fanatics read beyond a headline. According to Richard Falk, Professor Emeritus of International Law at Princeton University, this strategy represents "the best prospect for realizing Palestinian self-determination". His notion of a "legitimacy war", he says, was "exemplified by Gandhi’s nonviolent victory over the British Empire and more recently by the success of the global anti-apartheid movement against racist South Africa".

It doesn't seem to occur to him that Gandhi's non-violent "movement from below" was deeply rooted in the Hindu ethic of Ahimsa, which requires that socio-political objectives are attained without causing injury or harm to any living being. Nor does it seemingly merit even a sentence of theological consideration that "popular resistance" means something very different to Hamas and Fatah from what it meant to the Indian independence movement: the Qur'an isn't entirely consistent with the philosophy of Satyagraha.

So here you have the Stop the War Coalition urging the "mobilization" of a "popular resistance" which, to the many millions of Salafi-Wahhabi-Islamists who are currently rampaging over the Middle East, is an exhortation to carry on 'cleansing' the land of idols and summarily beheading the kuffar.

It is legitimate to criticise Israel for its failings, but to single out Israel as a legitimate target for a just war is a malicious attempt to delegitimise the Jewish State and stir up anti-Semitic sentiment on a scale and ferocity not seen since the Nazi era. Here's the Stop the War Coalition marching yesterday in London:

"..what a picture. These are the people who stayed at home throughout the Syrian civil war, stayed at home when ISIS rampaged across Iraq, stayed at home when Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab carried out their atrocities across central Africa and showed no concern whatsoever when the Muslim Brotherhood was running Egypt into the ground. Yet they pretend to care about Muslims.

"And here they all are, coming out to scream because Israel is carrying out the most specific and targeted campaign in the history of warfare in order to stop Hamas – a group dedicated to the annihilation of all Jews – from firing thousands of rockets into the Jewish homeland"
(Douglas Murray in The Spectator).

61 Comments:

Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

Perhaps the best and most peaceful way to balance the atrocities being carried out by the Religion of Peace on our brethren is to demand “jizya” tribute to the west?

We will leave the 'Convert or the sword' to those moderate loving adherents of that most peaceful of religions...Hmmm.

How come the west believe that Russia is definitely behind the atrocities in the Ukraine but have no conclusive evidence except encouragement and demand more sanctions yet deny that the encouragement of Allah and Mohammed in the writings of the Koran are NOT behind these atrocities being done in the ME and elsewhere, 'it's not so'!!. How about some sanctions here and abroad against this.

A most wonderful double standard but with different outcomes?

E S Blofeld

20 July 2014 at 09:58  
Blogger Athanasius said...

Mr Cranmer, they're not actually calling for war on Israel - it's a metaphor.

20 July 2014 at 10:07  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

"Verse 9:123 - "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you." " Allah and/or Mohammed didn't mean it, it's a metaphor, perhaps?

" After beating the sad glove puppet over the head with the truth, Ernst would reiterate to the blog audience that "It's a Muppet!" *Chuckles*


Blofeld

As

20 July 2014 at 10:18  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

War is peace!

Freedom is slavery!

and, with particular relevance to Islam...
Ignorance is strength!

20 July 2014 at 10:32  
Blogger Martin said...

YG

They hate God so they hate the people of God.

20 July 2014 at 10:32  
Blogger Nick said...

Just looked at the CSTW site. The front page is full of anti-Israeli hyperbole and hate, plus the usual idiotic statements from a few celebrities.

However, I could not find anything that called for military action against Israel. My guess is that even this bunch wouldn;t go that far. They are of course deluded and thoroughly brainwashed by an unbalanced Western media. CSTW is full of students and young people whose view of the world is based on a few NUS and SWP leaflets. They are blind to the atrociries os Islam, and live under the delusion that we can all live peacefully together under this false idea of multi-culturalism. They need a big reality check.

20 July 2014 at 10:33  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

YG,

Organisations like this make me utterly sick and angry at the same time. Where was this 'coalition' when it came to Syria and the 600,000 plus lives lost? Or the current situation in Iraq (as discussed below)?

Israel has no wish or desire for conflict and goes out of her way to prevent civilian casualties.

Israel is acting out of self defence. Britain would do the same, if no more, if she was in a similar situation.

It is Hamas, a terrorist organisation, which wants to exterminate Jews from the land of Israel and has been terrorizing Israeli civilians for month after month with rocket attacks. It is Hamas who tell their civilians to be human shields in order to win a propaganda war. It is Hamas who, like ISIS, who rule their territory with a theocratic totalitarian fist.

So why does anyone with any foot in the left support that group and that type of ideology, against what is a western, prosperous, liberal democratic state for one of the world's most historically persecuted groups?

20 July 2014 at 10:42  
Blogger Len said...

IF those who support the' Stop the War Coalition ' really wanted to 'stop the war' the solution is simple turn their attention to those who are causing the war which is Hamas firing thousands of rockets into Israel and murdering Israeli citizens.

As has been already said where is the condemnation by the 'Stop the War Coalition' on Al-Qaeda,Taliban,
Hamas,Al-shabaab,Boko Haram,Isis,and the rest of the numerous Islamic groups for their murderous activities?.

So what does the Stop the War Coalition do?, it condemns the only democracy in the middle east who have done everything possible to create a peace agreement with Hamas who operate their missile launching sites from school playgrounds, hospitals,and densely populated civilian areas.Tunnels have been dug so Hamas can infiltrate Israeli civilian areas to murder whoever they can find. Hamas do not want peace but to drive those Jews they cannot kill into the sea...Palestinians are merely 'pawns' in the war Hamas(and others ) are waging on Israel and if Hamas really cared for the Palestinians they would not have brought this action down on them by their constant provocation which could only have eventually have produced an Israeli response to protect its citizens..

20 July 2014 at 10:50  
Blogger The Explorer said...

I seem to recall the Hamas leader in 2009 (the exact year doesn't matter if I'm wrong) saying he would like to get all the Jews in the world into Israel so that he could drive the lot into the sea in one go.

That's not a man with political issues. That's a man with racial issues.

20 July 2014 at 11:05  
Blogger IanCad said...

To quote Nick:

"--CSTW is full of students and young people whose view of the world is based on a few NUS and SWP leaflets--"

A good reminder for the new Education Secretary to slash the budget for higher education.
It dosen't work.

The picture of the gal holding the placard "Hitler Must Be Proud" is surely evidence of early onset dementia.

There can scarcely ever in history be a nation so self restrained as Israel.

20 July 2014 at 11:06  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Ian C:

I find it a confused placard anyway.

Hitler would have approved of killing Jews, Slavs, gypsies etc, but there were Arab units in Hitler's armies.

Hitler, might have been pleased if Jews had been killing Jews, but I don't see where pride would come into it.

20 July 2014 at 11:22  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Soon after taking office in 2009, Obama pointedly refused to endorse Bush's "War on Terror". To replace it, he proclaimed the "Defeat of Violent Extremism". It didn't last long. Obama dropped the expression as soon as people started noticing that it gave the acronym "DOVE".

20 July 2014 at 11:55  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

The Inspector reaches out to the bizarrely named ‘Stop the War’ types...

At this time in human history, there is no greater calling to the {AHEM} ‘enthusiastic’ muslim than the destruction of Israel. Those rockets they’re playing around with and firing from Gaza, they didn’t just appear there. That’s the end product of a cunning supply organisation and a great deal of money. Probably Western money that had been used to buy oil.

Israel is thus taking the full efforts of Mohamed's scimitar wielding finest. And Israel is doing very well, thanks very much.

But should the awful day comes when Israel is brought down, then the blood letting really begins in earnest... Anyway, let’s cut to the chase. Does anyone seriously think those lifelong Islamic warriors are going to put down the sword after such an event. Start farming the dust they live in and forsake the continued spread of Islam ?

Do you think they might come over here and do to us what they did to Israel ? After all, we’ve already had a taste of that, one fine morning in London a few years ago...

20 July 2014 at 11:58  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Inspector:

Israel has been called the West's first line of defence. I think hat's right.

20 July 2014 at 12:09  
Blogger The Explorer said...

that's.

20 July 2014 at 12:10  
Blogger David Hussell said...

In church this morning we prayed for the victims of Islamic violence and intolerance.

I agree with His Grace's article and stand alongside the, mainly, excellent comments on this blog and especially those of David K., Explorer and Len.

20 July 2014 at 12:11  
Blogger Patrick Cox said...

Well said, Your Grace, and well said Inspector. Mr Galloway and his useful idiot coalition make no murmur against the ISIS I note - or do they think that lot are Israel in disguise. The destruction of Israel will unleash a new Jihad - to exterminate kuffars and impose a worldwide Caliphate - but I suspect these fine minds will, by that time, have adopted the dishdash and the prayer mat themselves.

20 July 2014 at 12:13  
Blogger C Rehill said...

Graffiti in Berlin 1934 "Jews go to Palestine" 2014 "Jews out of Palestine".

20 July 2014 at 13:00  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

So what you have here is a conventional Left wing organization that:

1. Sees war as an extension of Capitalism.

2. Sees the US as the primary bulwark of Capitalism and therefore the primary motivator of war.

3. Sees Israel as a tool of the American war machine created to support Capitalist hegemony.

4. Opposes all of it in the name of solidarity and the establishment of peace and harmony through International Socialism.

These are the people still pining after the Paris Commune.

carl

20 July 2014 at 13:25  
Blogger John Dub said...

re: Carl Jacobs

It's more fundamental than that - their perspective (If they can ever be honest about it) is -

They hate the world as it currently is;

The world is run by banker Jews;

Therefore quite simply and very literally the extreme left HATES JEWS

Underneath the rhetoric and the bullshit, it really is that simple...

20 July 2014 at 13:53  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

John Dub

No, I don't see that charge as being justified.

They hate the US.

They hate Israel because they see it as a lackey of US imperialism.

They are fixated on the creation of a Socialust utopian vision that has never, is not, and never will be realizable.

They long for the creation of the latest version of the New Soviet Man, and there are a fair number of would-be Checkists among their number who would do so by force.

They are very anxious to use the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as a lab rat to prove out Leftist notions of conflict resolution.

But I don't see a blanket charge if Anti-Semitism being justified.

carl

20 July 2014 at 14:58  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

There's a lot I could say, but all I will say is

Read Ezekiel chapters 37-39.

Really.

20 July 2014 at 15:53  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

PS may I be forgiven for (again) quoting 2 Hilaire Belloc couplets

The Pacifist

Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight
But Roaring Bill (who killed him)thought it right.

The Puritan

He served his god so faithfully and well
That now he sees him face to face, in hell.

20 July 2014 at 16:08  
Blogger Len said...

Israel is an 'outpost' of the West and the Islamists know that if they can take Israel then they can move on from there....
Western Media is being completely manipulated into portraying the Palestinians as the 'victims' of 'Israeli aggression 'whereas the Palestinians are being used by Hamas as 'human shields' from which they hide behind..
The truth is coming out from some sections of the media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNW5jW8MaM

20 July 2014 at 16:24  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

carl jacobs

They hate Israel because they see it as a lackey of US imperialism.

Yes, and at the same time
their reason for hating the United States is that it supports "the Zionist entity." It's a circular argument.

20 July 2014 at 16:51  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

Len

No doubt you will recall the two prams cartoon from Operation Cast Lead or even earlier. Hamas still thinks that's better than providing air raid shelters.

20 July 2014 at 17:01  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Uncle Brian:

Hadn't seen the cartoon before. Excellent! Ongoing from that:

1. Use mosques, schools and hospitals (where there will be women, children and the old) for command structures and weapons stores.

2. Israeli response: the Roof Knock. An initial projectile of non-lethal capacity to those below, to warn the inmates to get out.

3. Hamas solution. Put children on the roof, and video the result.

20 July 2014 at 17:49  
Blogger IanCad said...

Good find Uncle Brian,

Says it all.

20 July 2014 at 17:57  
Blogger John Wrake said...

YG: "It doesn't seem to occur to him that Gandhi's non-violent "movement from below" was deeply rooted in the Hindu ethic of Ahimsa, which requires that socio-political objectives are attained without causing injury or harm to any living being. Nor does it seemingly merit even a sentence of theological consideration that "popular resistance" means something very different to Hamas and Fatah from what it meant to the Indian independence movement: the Qur'an isn't entirely consistent with the philosophy of Satyagraha.

What was claimed by Gandhi as a non-violent movement from below was, in reality, nothing of the sort. Gandhi plotted and fomented violence and lied consistently about his motives. His aim was to set up Hindu domination of India, with the help of Nationalists supported by Germany, Turkey and Soviet Russia, and his success was achieved, not by them but by his ability to deceive weak Liberal politicians both here and in America.

His actions in the First World War and during WW2 give the lie to any peaceful intent. His real achievement was the creation of Pakistan.

John Wrake.

20 July 2014 at 18:06  
Blogger Len said...

Uncle Brian,(17:01) haven`t seen that cartoon before but it describes the situation very well.

20 July 2014 at 20:17  
Blogger David Hussell said...

John Wrake @ 18.06

your last sentence,

"His real achievement was the creation of Pakistan".

Said by you, in irony, or I am missing your point ?

20 July 2014 at 20:43  
Blogger bluedog said...

Good post, Mr John Wrake @ 18.06.

With achievements like those, the Mahatma is surely deserving of a statue in Parliament Square.

20 July 2014 at 21:12  
Blogger Gerhard Swart said...

Mmm, these hypocrites had a stall selling cake at the fires station open day in Luton adorned with burqas and all. I noticed the tasteless banner, but I now wish a had read this earlier. Would have been rather nice to tell them why I don't want their cake. On the upside, albeit being Luton and all, their cake didn't seen too popular anyway...

20 July 2014 at 21:19  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

David.

I assume John Wrake meant 'achievement' in the same sense that Tracy Emin and Damien Hirst achieve art..

Add some adjectives.

I also think Ghandi overated-the 'man of peace' whose actions catalysed a bloody civil war and enabled Muslim separatism with the results we see.

Nulla pax sincera in mundi (Emma Kirkby's version since you ask)

20 July 2014 at 21:20  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Seriously, read Ezekiel. Chapters 37-39 prophesy

1) Israel scattered from homeland in punishment (fulfilled in AD 70)
2) exiles gathered back to Israel (fulfilled 1948)
3) armies of many armies including Rosh (Russia) Libya, Ethiopia and Persia (Iran) gather on the borders of Israel determined to make a final end of her. Yet to be fulfilled.
4) battle of Armageddon. Fire from above (thermonuclear airburst?) Millions dead.

(3) looking any more likely lately?

Call me a J N Darby nut job or whatever, but explain this 2,500 year old prophecy away first. The point is that this Ezekiel prophecy is a fairly specific prediction long before the events of unprecedented and unparalleled geopolitical events. The first 2 events are now well documented history. The third event is awaited.

This is not a drill.

20 July 2014 at 21:39  
Blogger Lucy Mullen said...

@ Rambling Steve

To mix one interpretation of prophetic writing with politics is a very very dangerous game indeed. For what you then get is precisely nutcases working for the fulfilment of their prophetic understanding.

Remember that these nutcases include theosophists, kabbalists, occultists and Satanists. Whereas some of this job lot think that they are working towards putting the New Age Christ (aka the anti-Christ) in the Holy of Holies of a new built Temple (I kid you not, though it sounds nutty!) some of them are in disguise as "Christians" of a dispensationalist type.

True Christians are called to martyrdom before they see their neighbour enslaved, but dangerous neo-con dispensationalists believe a nice pink fluffy cloud picks them up after a period of lax, spineless and smug quietist onlooking, and they leave their neighbours -contentedly- to suffer hell on earth.

Nothing to do with the Christian narrative whatsoever.

As for Russia, how are you so sure that the famous prophesy brought back by Mother Barbara is not correct in which Russia is not the bad guy but the preserver of the faith.

I am a strong vote for peace. Only idiots grandstand and ratchet up tensions between nuclear powers. The only beneficiary from that is the military industrial complex. That is not a left wing perspective but a right wing one, as sensible folk do not lightly countenance war nor start false flag alarms.

I understand that the youtube video which ukraine uses as proof that Russia shot down the mi17 has a creation date prior to the shooting down.

Oh whoops, big whoops, I would say......

20 July 2014 at 22:05  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Greetings Appleseed. In similar vein, Revelations mentions many horned hordes of beasts coming in from the sea. That would be fully enclosed amphibious landing craft bristling with gun barrels, or horns as St John would have thought of them, not knowing any better as he viewed our destiny.

One wonders if such craft currently exist. Time to brick oneself if they’re around but only in the development stage, what !

20 July 2014 at 22:06  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, one would think that no mainstream (includes Ukip) political party in the United Kingdom would adopt anti Israeli, if not anti-Semitic, positions.

But, no.

North of the border, down Edinburgh way, lurks something very nasty, the First Minister of the Scottish Government. Alex Salmond is proudly, nay progressively, a supporter of BDS: http://www.bdsmovement.net/2011/scottish-first-minister-6963.

It is to be hoped that with Israel defending itself against a shower of rockets supplied by Iran and its proxies, at some point a British politician or journalist will question Salmond on this aspect of Scottish foreign policy.

Otherwise if Scotland does secede from the Union, one fears that congratulations will be received from just North Korea, Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. Even the Chinese will be silent, fearing that the Scottish precedent will influence events in Tibet and Xingkiang. Still, not all is lost, the short list of celebratory guests will keep the catering bill down.

20 July 2014 at 23:18  
Blogger IanCad said...

Lucy Mullen

Good post!

Dispensationalists can cook up a toxic mix when their flawed eschatology is blended with US foreign policy.

20 July 2014 at 23:21  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Inspector @ 22:06

One beast from the sea (political power: a compound of the beasts representing different empires in 'Daniel') and one beast from the land (false religion, that directs worship away from God to the political first beast).

There are creatures like locusts in 'Revelation', but they come out of the ground.

20 July 2014 at 23:43  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

Eh?

Confused Dave here.

So. How come us chaps are being recommended Ezekiel for the Christian end of the world? I thought the 'old testament' had been replaced by the new or fulfilled by Jesus and the second coming was to happen via the book of Revelations?

21 July 2014 at 07:28  
Blogger Matt A said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

21 July 2014 at 07:30  
Blogger Matt A said...

I am not sure that Rosh means Russia. The original word means 'head'. It sounds like Russia when pronounced, but that is a fairly thin basis for the connection.

21 July 2014 at 07:31  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Rosh most likely is Russia, the prophecy refers to the 'uttermost parts of the north'. Not much doubt about Libya and Persia.

Just saying: thecdestruction of Jerusalemnin AD70 really happened. The re-establishment of Israel in 1948 really happened. Ezekiel really wrote this hundreds of years BC.

Lucy, dear heart, please don't mistake me for someone who takes any pleasure in this or pretends to understand it all. I merely note with interest the growing anti Israel sentiment.

If there is a devil andnthere is important prophetic truth he wishes to conceal, then he would want to muddy the waters by lot of pseudo prophecies. Is this jot precisely whatnour Lord meant to communicate in his warning against false prophets?

The presence of false prophets and various off centred nut jobs tends to validate true prophecy.

True prophecy is validated by its fulfilment. The events of AD70 and 1948 appear to validate part of the Ezekiel 37-39 prophecy fairly straightforwardly.

21 July 2014 at 08:13  
Blogger David Hussell said...

I see that Nigel Farage has now condemned Vladimir Putin's recent actions, as being "callous". There's a article in The ToryGraph today.

Clearly few would continue to support the actions of a leader who may well be, it seems, linked to downing a passenger plane. Farage talks about the folly of weapons being put into the hands of the "indisciplined" - presumably the separatists.

Previously Farage considered his actions as "sure footed" and as an "operator", i.e. clever operator, contrasting to the description now of being "flat footed".

Clearly events have now escaped out of Putin's controlling hands as I find it difficult to believe that any sane leader would deliberately destroy a passenger plane, if only because the international outcry would be immense and the backlash inevitable.

Clearly what has happened is appalling. But I still recall that the initial destabilisation of the democratically elected government of the Ukraine, which led to this ever more violent stream of events, was due to the deliberate actions of the EU with its expansionist policy - an expansionist policy that has just ended, for the time being anyway, as recently confirmed by the new man, Dave's new "friend".
Of course I am not implying that the EU was responsible for shooting down an airliner, that is directly attributable to, in one way or other, Russia's military efforts, to reassert it's influence on an area it has long since seen as within its own sphere of influence.
So we have two empires, an expanding EU and a reviving Russia empire rubbing up, one against the other, and poor little Ukraine is the unfortunate border zone. Does anything ever change really ?

21 July 2014 at 08:40  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

David K

Much of the imagery in Revelation is similar to what we find in Daniel and Ezekiel.

Daniel asked for an explanation of the last of his visions as he didn't understand it. He was not given an explanation other that that the vision was sealed for the last days when 'many shall run to and fro and knowledge will increase.'

The role of OT prophecy in supporting Christianity cannot be overemphasised. We read a psalm together and heard from Isiah 53 in church yesterday. Jesus often referred to Moses and the prophets.

I am no neocon. I'm a penitent believer who is watching (in horror) and praying.

21 July 2014 at 08:51  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Happy Jacks asks why all this amateur sleuthing with the books of prophecy? Every age seems to produce those who read the runes and attempt to squeeze them into their own political agenda.

The structure of the Book Ezekiel is what matters - not its forward projection into 2014.

The beginning chapters are about events up to the time of the final destruction of the temple by the Babylonians in 587 and the Jewish exile. These tell of the judgement on Israel for her unfaithfulness to God. The next chapters forth-tell against the nations that played a part in Israel’s downfall at that time.

Then the message changes to one of hope as the prophet contemplates God’s plan now that Jerusalem and its temple have been destroyed. The last section is a vision of a new Israel worshipping at a new temple in Jerusalem.

Ezekiel's preaching laments rebellious Israel and the sinfulness that has brought them to the crisis. He also gives hope by looking forward to a new day when the faithful Israelites will return to a restored temple.

The Valley of the Bones vision is God raising his people out of their spiritual graves in order to bring them back home, renewed by the spirit of God breathing life back into them. The vision of the New Temple in Jerusalem tells of a new place of worship and a renewed sense of the life-giving presence of the God who dwells there again.

Ezekiel tells of the glory of the Lord departing from Jerusalem because of sin and shows the faithfulness of God who will restore his people and bring them to life again and return to the Temple. The Babylonian captivity was a punishment. However, if the people were to be obliterated altogether what would that say about their God? So he acted. God would save his people and would bring them to new life.

The destruction of Jerusalem was a catastrophic event but also a new stage in the development of the unique relationship between Israel and its God.

Jack accepts the underlying themes - sin leads to Jewish catastrophe but God remains faithful to his people. However, what has all this to do with AD 70; the restoration of Israel in 1948; rebuilding a third temple - and President Putin and Russia?

21 July 2014 at 13:04  
Blogger Hannah said...

Well what a ghastly sight! At least they have the right to protest which is more than what you have in the Arab world they wish to 'liberate' Palestine into....

21 July 2014 at 14:35  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Not about Putin but about a coalition against Israel including Libya, Persia, Ethiopia and 'Rosh'/ Gog and Magog. All determined to destroy Israel.

I appreciate that Jack's co-religionists past and present tend to disaprove of 'amateurs' (ploughboys, tinkers and the like) from reading Scripture unguided by agents of the Magisterium. But we're gonna do it anyway....

Must dash.....

21 July 2014 at 14:37  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi David,

That's a good question. I don't know is the honest answer because like you I always thought Christians believed that Jesus fulfilled all these apparent prophecies with his first coming, but that his second coming is to do with the book of Revelation or something? I know some Christians say that having a computer chip put into your hand is the mark of the beast.

21 July 2014 at 14:40  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Why do the Left always support Arab tyranny against enlightened, liberal democratic Israel?

It may be something to do with their deep hatred of Christianity, which is due to their terrible fear that it might be true (see John 3:19). Peter Hitchens has written about this red/green/ black axis in 'The Cameron Delusion' and 'The Rage Against God.'

Their hatred of the Judaeo-Christian revelation blinds them to the true nature of the global jihadist threat we all face.

The enemies of the Jewish state are on the wrong side of history. That is all I mean to say by citing Ezekiel 37-39. The displaced Palestinians could have all been decently and peacefully settled by now-like the Jews expelled from Arab lands, Greek Cypriots dispossessed by Turks and many others- if they weren't bring used at tools against Israel by global Islam and its leftist supporters in the West.

21 July 2014 at 15:10  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Hannah

There is a range of opinions and to be fair many of us ignore most of the OT most of the time. Most churches seem not to preach about the end times

Again, not claiming special expertise or revelation but drawing attention to a remarkable passage of ancient Jewish prophecy which seems relevant, and if so then terrifyingly so.

21 July 2014 at 15:23  
Blogger Sidney Deane said...

Ha! Gotta love Douglas Murray.

What a legend.

21 July 2014 at 15:47  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Sidney, you've finally made a statement I can unreservedly agree with!

21 July 2014 at 18:02  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Rambling Steve
Rambling Steve

"I appreciate that Jack's co-religionists past and present tend to disaprove of 'amateurs' (ploughboys, tinkers and the like) from reading Scripture unguided by agents of the Magisterium. But we're gonna do it anyway...."

Well of course you are and jolly good luck to you too. The Catholic Church does not discourage reading scripture - just getting carried away with private interpretations. It's become a lucrative industry of late and has caused untold disasters in the past.

Did you read Jack's post? He was pointing to the theological message of the Book of Ezekiel. Israel sins - God departs from the Jews and He uses the the Babylonians destroy the temple and take them into captivity. As God is faithful, He does not abandon His people but keeps His promise and shows His power. He breathes new life into them. They return to Zion and the second temple is built.

"The enemies of the Jewish state are on the wrong side of history."

Read your bible and you'll see the enemies of Israel have been used by God to punish Israel. It's a central theme of Ezekiel.

That the Jews were chosen by God and that He will remain faithful to them, Jack accepts. However, do you really believe the current secular and increasingly liberal state of Israel is pleasing in the sight of God? They have the same spiritual faults we have in the West. Do you as a Christian believe a third temple will be built and the Judaic religion reintroduced in its fullness?

Israel as a nation state has a right to exist in 2014 and a right to defend itself against Islam. We cannot go ay further. All this talk of end times and 'Ros' meaning Russia and a final showdown coming, is speculative and fanciful.

22 July 2014 at 01:24  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Place Gaza under UN control and demilitarize it.

22 July 2014 at 04:50  
Blogger David Kavanagh said...

Rambling Steve,

Thanks for the information there.

Manfarang,

The UN can't organise a piss up in a brewery, when it comes to military escapades (besides which, what other country would be willing to get involved in the Gaza war?), so I have no confidence it could stop Hamas or its terror rockets. Nice proposal, but unworkable. The UN might be able to peace keep once the threat is over, but that is about as far as you can stretch it.

22 July 2014 at 08:09  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Jack@01.24

So neither of are very good sleepers.

I find it quite insulting of you to suggest that I responded to your post without having read it. Of course I read it. A lot of what you posted is of course true. I didn't choose to write a detailed criticism of every word, perhaps I don't feel the need to, perhaps I don't have as much time on my hands as you, perhaps I don't feel I always have to have the last word.

Anyway this will be my last word for a week or so, on the road, so you can post as much Jesuitical counter Reformation polemic as you like.

Regards.

22 July 2014 at 08:31  
Blogger Hannah said...

Hi Steve

Thanks for explaining.

22 July 2014 at 12:14  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Rambling Steve

Then Happy Jack wishes you safe travels and may your apples never suffer from maggots.

22 July 2014 at 13:51  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

22 July 2014 at 13:51  

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