Saturday, July 19, 2014

The imminent extermination of Mosul's Christians

Canon Andrew White has posted an urgent request for prayer: the Christians of Mosul, where they have lived for 1,700 years, are about to succumb to the ISIS interpretation of Sharia - you know, convert to Islam or pay the jizya or prepare to die. As the savvy Digital Nun observes, Christians have been in Mosul since before Mohammed was in nappies. She writes:
This item of news didn’t make the front page of today’s BBC web-site (it is buried deep inside), yet it represents a sickening attempt to violate the consciences of thousands of people and the very real possibility of mass murder. It highlights the difficulty we in the West have in dealing with the religious dimension of conflicts in the Middle East. Part of the problem is that many of us no longer take religion seriously enough to consider how it motivates people and are woefully ignorant both of its teachings and its history. Most of us can’t get inside the mentality of Isis and its particular understanding of Islam so tend to dismiss the kind of ultimatum posed to the Christians of Mosul as mere posturing. We believe in freedom of religion, we say, by which we mean the freedom to worship according to our own beliefs. There are a few limitations on such religious freedom. Human sacrifice, for example, is not permissible, but by and large, we follow the principle of ‘live and let live’. If you want to follow some cranky religion, you do so; just don’t expect me to follow suit. That is not how a member of Isis would see things. It is not how things are in Saudi Arabia. So what do we in the West do?
What do we do, indeed.

We must, of course, pray for those who are suffering as if we were suffering with them. We might also send money, for Canon White seems to have to waste an inordinate amount of his precious time making appeals for the odd ten quid.

And we must ensure that our new Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond makes religious freedom and the persecution of Christians an absolute priority. William Hague never seemed to be overly concerned, and the sacking of Alistair Burt from his team at the last reshuffle dealt a blow to those who knew of his immense background efforts. But (and take it from His Grace) there are now those within government and very close to the Prime Minister who have every intention of bringing this issue to the fore, and we, too, must make our voices heard. Please don't just post on His Grace's obscure blog: write to your MP, badger the Foreign Secretary, pester the Prime Minister. As Martin Luther King said: “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

Whatever we do, silence is not an option.


Blogger john in cheshire said...

"the ISIS interpretation of sharia.." Is that what you really think? That makes it sound like an aberration when in fact it is fundamental to islam. It's what will come to our shores quite soon unless we as a nation wake up and start to defend Christians against this muslim onslaught. If we have to send our soldiers abroad to fight, better that they fight in defense of Christians rather than acting as paid mercenaries on behalf of muslims.

19 July 2014 at 10:12  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Saw this story on the Telegraph today. Grim news.

"Christian families are on their way to Dohuk and Arbil," in the neighbouring autonomous region of Kurdistan, Patriarch Louis Sako told AFP. "For the first time in the history of Iraq, Mosul is now empty of Christians."

I hope that statement is true and that people have left rather than be butchered.

19 July 2014 at 10:15  
Blogger Albert said...

Thank you for bringing this issue up.

This item of news didn’t make the front page of today’s BBC web-site...Part of the problem is that many of us no longer take religion seriously enough to consider how it motivates people and are woefully ignorant both of its teachings and its history.

Another way in which the rise in secularism has resulted in hell for other people.

19 July 2014 at 10:41  
Blogger Jay Bee said...

From Breitbart News:
The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria distributed leaflets to Christian leaders in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul this week, threatening violence if they don't convert.
Christians who do not accept Islam or fail to pay extra taxes to the Islamic Sharia courts, the letters warned, will face "death by the sword."
Christians who do not agree to ISIS demands were also given the option to leave Mosul. According to a message from ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, non-complying Christians were permitted to "evacuate themselves only from the caliphate state" by 12 p.m. local time on Saturday or their "only option is the sword."

If true this offers a glimmer of hope that Christians can escape slaughter but those who do leave will be destitute.

Email Foreign Sec at

Contact PM via

19 July 2014 at 10:44  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Is it still ISIS?

I thought it had become the new caliphate of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? (With all that that implies.)

19 July 2014 at 11:09  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

Although some Buddhists and Hindus are beginning to wake up to Islam (and getting lots of bad press for it), there appears to be no realisation whatsoever in any Christian denomination that Islam wants them subjugated or dead.

Not some 'abberation' of Islam, but plain normal orthodox Islam as taught by the 'prophet', wants every Christian dead, enslaved or converted.

Which part of 'Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them' do Christians not understand?

19 July 2014 at 11:52  
Blogger PeterB said...

Christian apologists for Islam urgently need to get real.
Buddhism is a religion of pragmatic tolerance, but the well-known western Buddhist teacher Lama Ole has been warning of the dangers of Islam to anyone who will listen.

19 July 2014 at 11:58  
Blogger Len said...

The murder of Christians in Islamic dominated Counties is a warning to the rest of the World what Islam does to those who are unfortunate enough to come under its power.
Remember they came for the Jews and the Christians first.NOW is the time to support those who are being slaughtered in the name of 'Allah'. We can do this by donations, by prayer, and by awakening our Governments to the reality of Islam which promotes and glorifies death.

19 July 2014 at 12:04  
Blogger Harry-ca-Nab said...

Thank God our Established Church is playing merry hell in parliament and the HoL and demanding that we help all the persecuted christians across the muslim world without delay...

...oh, wait.

19 July 2014 at 12:05  
Blogger The Explorer said...

No political party (except maybe UKIP) can afford to ignore the British Muslim vote.

That will make any criticism of Islam abroad very circumspect.

19 July 2014 at 12:30  
Blogger bluedog said...

Sounds like a job for 16 Air Assault Brigade, Your Grace. But then Cameron's disarmament policy has just reduced that formation along with the rest of the British Army. Timing is everything, isn't it?

Is it just your communicant who senses things are rapidly sliding out of control on a number of fronts simultaneously? Various clichés spring to mind, 'a shot heard around the world', 'guns of august' - it all seems to be coming to a head.

Fingers crossed.

19 July 2014 at 12:55  
Blogger David Hussell said...

Jay Bee

Thank you for the e-addresses of Foreign Sec. and PM, which has saved me from having to search.

This is so bloody, unspeakably awful, that's all I wish to say, except for just one more thing,

namely, that the ubiquitous "everyone is nice really" brigade found in droves in politics and the Churches needs to get real, and face reality, very soon, very soon indeed. Things have been so comfortable around here for so long, as we have enjoyed reasonably just government, good resources and military superiority, so the bulk of the western populations are asleep - a sleep that will end I think.

19 July 2014 at 13:13  
Blogger Mrs Proudie of Barchester said...

Goodness! Well Archdeacon Grantly is organising the Barchester Home Guard, ready to face the foe if that's what is needed. Admittedly, the force consists mainly of the old gentlemen from Hiram's Hospital, but there is an attached Entertainment Troop led by Mr. Slope. I am busy baking rock buns (dangerous when fired from 200 yards). What I want to know is (1) is HM Government still funding these bearded barbarians with out money and if so, WHY? (2) Why is more notice taken of 10% of the population to te detriment of the remaining 90% and (3) Where is Lord Palmerston when you need him?

19 July 2014 at 13:14  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

So here we have a mob, founded by a gangster, that under the guise of 'religion' engages in narcotics dealing, child prostitution, turf wars with rival mobs, and now protection rackets.

Yet none dare call it organised crime.

Mafiaphobia, anyone?

19 July 2014 at 13:20  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 July 2014 at 14:07  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

19 July 2014 at 14:10  
Blogger Uncle Brian said...

The time has surely come for Her Majesty’s Government to take the strongest possible action of which it is capable. The Prime Minister must issue a very stern warning, couched in the strongest possible terms, stating most emphatically that Caliph Ibrahim Al-Baghdadi’s threats against the Christian population of his realm are manifestly not in full compliance with the theory and practice of the Religion of Peace. The Caliph must be told, in no uncertain terms, that he is acting in an un-Islamic manner, as measured by the Cameron Scale of True Muslimhood. That will stop him in his tracks, as surely as Cameron put an end to Islamic terrorist attacks in Kenya by solemnly serving notice on the Nairobi shopping mall terrorists, in September 2013, that “where the perpetrators claim they do it in the name of a religion – they don’t. They don’t represent Islam or Muslims in Britain or anywhere else in the world.”

19 July 2014 at 14:23  
Blogger Nick said...

For anyone who wants to write to the Foreign Secratary as I have just done, (I believe a hard copy is less likely to get overlooked than an email), then the address is:

The Rt Hon Philip Hammond MP
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
King Charles Street

19 July 2014 at 14:47  
Blogger 45minutewarning said...

A very timely reminded of the awful fate awaiting the Christians of Iraq. Equally sickening is the silence of the West on this issue. While the General Synod wastes its time on feminising the Church, our brothers and sisters in Christ await slaughter. I wonder how many of the bishopesses would do what Andrew White is doing?

"This item of news didn’t make the front page of today’s BBC web-site (it is buried deep inside), "

Wel of course not, there are no homosexuals involved.

19 July 2014 at 14:58  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

I agree with BlueDog at 12.55

However, perhaps we need to have faith in Cameron and his new team?

After all they scare the hell out of me.

Who are they again?


19 July 2014 at 15:25  
Blogger B flat said...

Thank you again YG for informing us of this.
I have written to my MP.
My email to the Prime Minister fails, both through Yahoo and Gmail, although I copied and pasted the address as given in comments by JayBee at 10.44.

Can someone suggest an alternative address? The letter
post will not arrive before Tuesday now, and time is short.

19 July 2014 at 16:05  
Blogger Nick said...

B Flat

The address is not an email address, it is a web page. You have to open it in your web browser and complete the online form

19 July 2014 at 16:15  
Blogger Martin Marprelate said...

Just in case anyone is wondering, what ISIS is doing in Mosul is absolutely in line with the Qur'an.

'Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah has forbidden by his messenger and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute willingly, being brought low.' Surah 9:29.

19 July 2014 at 16:35  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


What would the 16th Air Assault Brigade do? The problem is not acute but chronic. A monopoly on the employment of violence is not held by civilized hands. The only way to address the problem is to seize that monopoly and exercise it in perpetuity. It's not a matter if repelling down ropes from Assault Helicopters to kill the bad guys. It's a matter of imposing the rule of law on people who prefer their own law and will kill to keep it that way.

Western power is receding because the West no longer has the will to maintain order in the world. In its perpetual quest for a more perfect orgasm, it has ceded any responsibility for what happens beyond its borders. So bad things are going to happen with increasing frequency and nothing will be done about any of it. The world "out there" is reverting to barbarism.

Oh, the West will be greatly concerned about airliners being shot down because Westerners fly on those airliners and feel entitled to security wherever they may be. But Iraq? What you are talking about is what the Second Iraq War was intended to accomplish. And see how that war is considered today. Get used to atrocities. You haven't seen anything yet.


19 July 2014 at 16:45  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

45minutewarning: "Wel of course not, there are no homosexuals involved."

I've been waiting for the BBC to publish the list of homosexuals on flight MH17 given that the story has taken up most of the main page since it happened.

19 July 2014 at 16:47  
Blogger Sidney Deane said...

I'm thinking that when all prayers are said and done, somehow, like always, the strongest team/army will win.

Funny that.

19 July 2014 at 17:45  
Blogger The Explorer said...


Of course the strongest wins; otherwise it wouldn't be the strongest. That's why David beat Goliath.

How one defines 'strongest' is another matter. Do you mean biggest, as in "God is on the side of the big battalions"? Or the most powerful? And is 'power' to be understood in terms of brawn, or brain?

'Survival of the fittest' is another ambiguous term: physically fittest, or best suited? Thus in war the young men best fitted to survive are those too physically unfit to be conscripted.

19 July 2014 at 18:05  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Explorer: "'Survival of the fittest' is another ambiguous term"

Most often ambiguous on the Internet because it gets into the hands of religionists.

19 July 2014 at 18:36  
Blogger The Explorer said...

At the Battle of Sobraon, 30 000 Sikhs with seventy heavy field guns were routed by 20 000 British and Indian troops with sixty or so lighter field guns.

The Sikhs were on home ground. On paper, there was no contest.

19 July 2014 at 18:36  
Blogger The Explorer said...


It doesn't matter who's using it: it was first coined, I think, by Herbert Spencer. What matters is how it's defined.

19 July 2014 at 18:38  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


Then maybe you should ask how Hitler managed to lose WWII.


19 July 2014 at 18:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Explorer: "What matters is how it's defined."

It doesn't seem to matter how it's actually defined on the Internet as it most often ends up being used to imply some sort of moral content in the context of natural selection.

I don't know where this particular usage was going but I expect our Sidney was simply obliquely alluding to god being on the side of the big battalions. God, in this case, being called Allah.

19 July 2014 at 18:57  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Though Voltaire was probably closer to the mark:

"Dieu n'est pas pour les gros bataillons, mais pour ceux qui tirent le mieux"

19 July 2014 at 18:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Incidentally, BBC TV News is running the story now.

19 July 2014 at 19:01  
Blogger The Explorer said...


I would never personally pray for victory: whether in relation to a job interview, a sporting event, or a war.

I would pray that God's will may be done because we are instructed to pray, and it seems that our prayers may, in some respects, influence certain outcomes.

The analogy of a play is a good one. The main outline has been set out by the dramatist, but there are certain scenes where the actors may extemporise.

19 July 2014 at 19:15  
Blogger IanCad said...

The bandit religion is on the march again. Loot the reward, murder the means; Satan the master.

God help the Christians and other minorities who are in the way.

Well, we won't render Mecca uninhabitable. The West will do nothing.

Who then?

The Iranians!?

Maybe they are the best hope.
They have unfinished business with Iraq.

They have long memories. They remember the poision gas. As they do the assistance given to Saddam. And flight 655.

Time was when the Persians ruled.

They hold a very strong hand.

Meanwhile; prayers, letters, money.

A voice in the wilderness YG. Keep it up.

19 July 2014 at 21:11  
Blogger Inspector General in Ordinary said...

Men – this jizya whatever needs to be paid to the blighters, and pretty damn quick at that. Fortunately for the Christians concerned, the Koran isn’t completely a manual urging to exterminate your neighbour and we should take some small comfort in that oversight.

Now, just as pressing is where the hell has the Inspector’s poison gas got to. He ordered it weeks ago. It’s all very well buying time with that evil tax but one must make good the time bought. One is also concerned that the gas, which will incapacitate rather than kill is not entirely what the muslim deserves. We need to have some of that western front mustard gas in reserve to burn their lungs and throats out too.

It’s what God would expect from us, you know...

19 July 2014 at 21:18  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

The media is covered with articles on Flight MH17, as is Facebook, Twitter and blogs. An awful tragedy, for sure. 298 dead and may God have mercy on their souls.

It appears to have been a terrible mistake by pro-Russian separatists - not a wilful and deliberate attack on a civilian plane. And the world screams and Obama screams. Putin is held responsible and there are calls for sanctions and trade embargos.

And yet the cold blooded and calculated murder of hundreds of innocent people is whispered in the media. Where's the noise? Where's the interest? How many have been massacred because of religious fanaticism by ISIS in Iraq and Syria or by other Islamist fanatics in Libya and Egypt in the last couple of years?

Jack prays that God protects the Christian community in the Middle East - knowing whatever happens His Will be done and evil will ultimately be brought to account. And that includes those with the means to do something who don't. Those who pass by on the other side of the road.

19 July 2014 at 21:53  
Blogger Happy Jack said...


Then maybe you should ask how Hitler managed to lose WWII."

That's not a good example of the fittest being overcome by the weaker, as Hitler was a strategic fool. Okay, maybe through the Providence of God but we're talking with a self declared atheist here.

A better example would have been
13 May 2012.

19 July 2014 at 22:00  
Blogger bluedog said...

Carl @ 16.45 says, inter alia, 'And see how that war is considered today. Get used to atrocities. You haven't seen anything yet.'

Totally agree. As to what would 16 Air Assault Bde do? Establish a secure perimeter in open country so that the Mosul Christians could evacuate under escort to Kurdistan, provide cover for resettlement support and then evacuate themselves. Such an operation could only be conducted with Kurdish logistical support. Just an idea, and using the Cyprus bases with flights routed over Israel and Jordan it may be feasible.

One can however see Western special forces becoming active in eastern Ukraine after the MH17 debacle. Then there is Konigsberg and/or the four southern Kuriles...

UKip supporting communicants who have previously waxed lyrical about Comrade Putin may need to brush up on their character judgement skills.

19 July 2014 at 22:05  
Blogger seanrobsville said...

@ Happy Jack
"And yet the cold blooded and calculated murder of hundreds of innocent people is whispered in the media. Where's the noise? Where's the interest?"

Muslims kill kuffars = Dog bites man

Kuffars kill Muslims = Man bites dog.

19 July 2014 at 22:17  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...

This is interesting

From a Muslim girl speaking about her conversion to Christianity.

"They have to kill her because they love god more than their daughter."

She states that the parents have no choice in the matter and she keeps telling everyone that they do not understand. For her parents to love god they must kill her.

When you listen to her the ISIS actions with Christians are completely rational.

They have to do it because otherwise to spare Christians means that they would have to decide that mercy/whatever is more important than god.

We are always surprised that people could act to callously. We shouldn't be. To act otherwise cannot be an option.


19 July 2014 at 22:29  
Blogger The Explorer said...

Phil R:

Our God says. "I require mercy, not sacrifice."

Theirs says the opposite.

19 July 2014 at 22:37  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


I am not sure how we counter it.

Carl's way is WW3

Danjo's liberal utopia just makes them more militant as they see the breakdown in moral values.

The middle way of doing nothing but generally promoting liberal values outside of the Middle East and not supporting Christians no matter what the provocation or outrage, seems to be current policy.


19 July 2014 at 22:46  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Your Grace,
These Christians should be extricated. Others from other nations have come here with far less credible stories. Once they are out then there is no impediment for action.

As to MH17, Putin must be put under pressure to hand over the guilty people and to hand over all evidence from the flight, otherwise all flights in and out of Russia should be blocked.

19 July 2014 at 22:52  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


That's not a good example of the fittest being overcome by the weaker

Are you kidding me? By all rights the war should have ended the first week of June 1940. Had it not been for the personal courage of Winston Churchill it would have ended at that time. If Hitler had destroyed the BEF on the beaches of Dunkirk - as he most certainly had the power to do - then Winston Churchill would not have been able to keep England in the War. That was only the first of many opportunities that Hitler squandered.

Germany should have won that war long before the US entered to turn the tide. It's a positive miracle it didn't.


19 July 2014 at 23:13  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Phil R

If you believe God's has created us all in His own image and has planted a conscience in the soul of everyman, they you will understand that Islam is an ideology and not a faith. It contradicts our very nature.

Jack believes the fanatics involved in this mayhem would be fanatics in any historical age or circumstance - they'd find a cause. No right minded individual would kill their own daughter or cut off the head of an unbeliever. Islam is an ideology that actively promotes murder and repression.

In their hearts most Muslims, made in the image of God and with an implanted, even if corrupted and damaged conscience, knows this.


There is no evidence linking Putin with MH17. A reasonable position is that this tragedy appears to have been a terrible mistake by pro-Russian separatists - not a wilful and deliberate attack on a civilian plane.

The point Jack was making was that different standards apply according to the political bias of the media.

Putin will do whatever the interests of his country dictate. Jack has no illusions about this.

19 July 2014 at 23:19  
Blogger Happy Jack said...


"Germany should have won that war long before the US entered to turn the tide."

Happy Jack agrees - but the root cause was Hitler's character flaws.

"It's a positive miracle it didn't."

Define miracle? There is no evidence of Divine intervention.

Jack will concede it was very strange Germany didn't conquer all of Europe and also notes there were many 'coincidences' along the way that all helped Britain.

Trust me, this would never make it through the Vatican process of certifying miracles which goes back centuries and involves an investigation by scientific experts. Divine events can have no natural or scientific explanation.

19 July 2014 at 23:33  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


The tide had turned before the US entered the war


So would the US have "entered the war" if Germany had not declared war on the US?

I doubt it somehow.

Different era.

The US was still mentally fighting the war of independence. (Some of you still are!)


19 July 2014 at 23:36  
Blogger Phil Roberts said...


Why leave the BEF escape?

Hitler probably thought that fighting in a marsh whilst low on ammunition and no infantry support, was not a wise option for his tanks.

If the French had attacked the infantry struggling to keep up whilst the tanks were engaged at Dunkirk, he might have lost the battle of France.

The outcome was not certain. To stop the tanks was not sensible with hindsight.

But the Germans did not know what we know now.


19 July 2014 at 23:49  
Blogger Happy Jack said...

Phil R, we were discussing a sort of theology of history and how God achieves and manifests His purpose. The point is Germany could and should have conquered Britain and the rest of Europe with the resources at its disposal.

It didn't. Why not?

20 July 2014 at 00:11  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


Carl's way is WW3

Just to be clear. I wasn't advocating a way. I was making an observation. As Western power recedes, many things are going to re-emerge. And it's all going to be broadcast on live TV. Whereupon many people will say "Somebody should do something about that." But they will mean "Somebody else should do something about that." Most countries don't have the capability to do anything anyway. And they don't want to pay for it.

What is happening in Iraq is beyond Western control because the West does not want to get involved. That has necessary consequences. One of those consequences is that terrible scenes will appear on your TV from time to time. Because men are evil. The progressives are wrong. Man isn't getting progressively better. He is staying just the same.


20 July 2014 at 04:21  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


Sending Western military forces into Ukraine is (shall we say) insane. Do you want to trigger a full scale Russian invasion? That would do it. Ukraine is a vital Russian interest. They will fight to keep control of it.
Ukraine has the misfortune to exist under the shadow of a large neighbor that requires its incorporation to be a major power. One way or another, Ukraine is going back under Russian sovereignty. Ukraine isn't powerful enough to secure its own independence, and it isn't important enough for any other mation to justify war on its behalf.

When the Soviet Union broke up and Ukraine got its independence, I remember thinking at the time "Russia just ceased to be a major power." Unfortunately, the Russians thought the same thing.


20 July 2014 at 04:34  
Blogger carl jacobs said...


By conventional analysis, the two most important German defeats of the war were at Stalingrad and El Alamein. That's a year after the US entered the war. It was in December '41 after the Germans failed at Moscow and the US entered the war that the first seeds of doubt about German victory were sown. To say Tobruk represented the tide being turned is simply incorrect. At the end of 1942 Rommel was a day's march from the Suez Canal.

The Blitzkrieg was as much psychological warfare as anything else, and the French Army was already defeated by June 1st. The best divisions of the French Army had been deployed to Belgium, and along with the BEF were trapped beyond rescue. They required only a push to induce surrender. To fail to exploit a victory at the moment of total success is a serious military failing.


20 July 2014 at 05:00  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Phil :"Danjo's liberal utopia just makes them more militant as they see the breakdown in moral values."

My utopia? There's no getting through that walnut you use for a brain, is there?

20 July 2014 at 05:51  
Blogger The Explorer said...

The most extraordinary example of numerical imbalance must be Israel's success in the Six-Day War; and its continued survival with the odds (including enlightened Western opinion)stacked so heavily against it.

20 July 2014 at 08:09  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Carl said,
Germany should have won that war long before the US entered to turn the tide.

Please don't forget Carl that the US only joined the war AFTER it had exploited the finances of the UK. A good example of the strong exploiting the week.

Not trying to undermine your argument though.

20 July 2014 at 09:43  
Blogger IanCad said...

So; back to the subject, on which only The Inspector has offered any practical solution.

Yes! Pay them off.

It seems likely that around 50,000 oppressed souls are affected.

Fifty millions of pounds should do the trick.

One quarter of one F-35b that dosen't fly and operates from an aircraft carrier that we don't have.

Seems like a good deal to me.

It wouldn't be an ongoing cost.

Moderate Muslims here in the west would, I'm sure, be so disgusted with their militant brethren that, in short order, they will have a whip-round to defray the expenses.

If they don't cough up the the Saudis and the prosperous Gulf States surely will.

20 July 2014 at 10:15  
Blogger Preacher said...

Despite this, our Churches in the West are full this morning & what will the service & the messages be about?. In most cases, nothing of relevance to our brethren being killed in Mosul. Left to their fate, a massacre!.
While we enjoy the weather & mouth platitudes.

What about a week of prayer & fasting to bring our God into the situation?. Too Radical?.
How have we swerved the post onto W.W II?.
Lethargy & Apathy my friends. these twins will be the end of the Church unless we wake up & get serious with God.

20 July 2014 at 10:18  
Blogger IanCad said...

Amen! Preacher.

One point:

"--our Churches in the West are full this morning--"

Not something I've observed.

20 July 2014 at 10:41  
Blogger bluedog said...

HJ @ 23.19 says, 'There is no evidence linking Putin with MH17.'

Of course not.

And what was Putin's job before he got involved in politics? Ah, that's right, our Vlad was a Colonel in the KGB. Obviously wouldn't have the requisite skills to destroy an airliner without leaving his dabs all over the job.

For Chrissake, how naïve can you be?

20 July 2014 at 11:10  
Blogger bluedog said...

Carl @ 04.34 says, 'Sending Western military forces into Ukraine is (shall we say) insane.'

Given the enormous effort your compatriots have put into setting up firstly, the Visegrad group, and secondly a resurrected Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which in its original iteration included western Ukraine, it is almost inevitable that the West will offer some form of military support to Ukraine. It won't be regular formations.

You may disagree.

If the Russians were going to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine they would have done so when the Ukraine military first stood up and took on the Pro-Russian separatists with considerable success. But the Russians did not invade and Poroshenko has called their bluff. It only remains for the Ukraine to complete the job.

Frankly, it would only surprise if the Ukraine had not already received considerable Western intelligence and military support. Remember that in 1941 the forces of the Third Reich were actually welcomed when they reached Ukraine.

It is not impossible that shooting down MH17 over the Ukraine was designed to humiliate Kiev and cause it to lose credibility in the West. The scripted response from Russia points to that objective.

20 July 2014 at 11:28  
Blogger Shadrach said...

Ian Clad @ 10.15

That is why the Government dose not negotiate with Terrorists because it does nothing but fund there next campaign.

20 July 2014 at 15:06  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

Happy Jack @22.00 yesterday

Please accept a small correction.

Having read Mein Kampf, I don't think its accurate to say Hitler was an atheist although he certainly detested the Christian virtues of compassion and forgiveness. More of a deist/pagan, although his cunning use if pseudochristian rhetoric, appeals to Luther etc when it suited him muddies the water.

Of course like those other 20th century tyrants Mao, Pol Pot and Stalin ( who were atheists) he was a Darwinist, but that's another story.

20 July 2014 at 16:55  
Blogger Rambling Steve Appleseed said...

PS I have just realised Jack may have been referring to Sidney Deane not Hitler as a 'self declared atheist' innyedterday's 22.00 post

Apologies if I misread.

20 July 2014 at 17:03  
Blogger IanCad said...


True, but we're talking big numbers here.

We must lean on (press)the Muslim community to pay up.

It's time to get tough.

Really, the Middle East states need to recognize that they are, after all, very weak.

Built on sand so to speak.

20 July 2014 at 17:52  

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